Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Cosmic77]

To me every single Lycanroc pitch is just silly though, and is a massive stretch by Lycanroc fans to make him seem like a unique or interesting pick.

You either have to break the rules of Lycanroc, and allow him to switch between forms (which you cannot do in Pokemon), or make the character multiple Lycanrocs that you switch between. The former of which is bending the character where it's not even Lycanroc, the latter is just too silly and convoluted to justify making it work in the first place.

Or you could just go with one Lycanroc form and stick with it.

Seriously, just because it has multiple forms doesn't mean you have to implement all three of them into the moveset somehow.

 

[T-Hell]

Hey guys, I was thinking we could do another little hypothetical game to pass the time as E3 approaches.

Come up with, or pick, 2-3 “WTF” newcomers you’d like to see.

WTF characters are generally defined as curveball characters with seemingly no prior precedent set for their inclusion, and they tend to represent an iconic piece of hardware/software, or a time in Nintendo's history.

Of course you can have fun with this, and play fast and loose with the definition of a “WTF” character.

Here are some ideas I've come up with:

The Mario Paint cursor, with Mario in his painting smock in the background or foreground - its moves would rely on form swapping to one of the various cursors from the game, such as the fly swatter. Mario would be, in the vein of Pokemon Trainer, standing in the back or foreground, in his painting smock.

And we don't need to limit ourselves to first parties when playing this game...~

So, next. MissingNo. Listen, I actually don't have much of an idea as to how the hell this fighter would work, and its inclusion is typically only seen on preteen meme dream lists, but I've internally sold myself on it being a good idea.. at the very least it'd be a hilarious PokeBall inclusion, but, I digress.

Game hacking and cheating more specifically are huge mainstays of gaming and the culture surrounding it – and if WTF characters are geared toward celebrating hardware and odd quirks of the culture, then I think MissingNo. covers a few key bases.

I'd just suggest something like a GameShark/Game Genie character but there's probably tense licensing issues with those peripherals, and, hey, a WTF Pokemon character is one of the last things anyone would anticipate.

It wouldn't even need to be MissingNo., necessarily. It almost borders on being too close to Shrek and SpongeBob. A character that hacks or “glitches” the battlefield would be a lot of fun, however, and could still somehow be tied to cheating/code devices.
~~
Things like WTF items and stages are also a lot of fun to think about. A WTF item I've been thinking about, for example, would be something like an arcade cabinet item that is obtained/activated like an Assist Trophy, but instead of actually summoning AI help to the battlefield, the player would take control of a very barebones “game” UI (Space Invaders, for example) overlay that appears. Of course, the enemies you'd be aiming for in any given context of arcade game would be the other players/fighters. It'd be sort of a combination of AT/the dragoon parts/and a weaker Final Smash, in theory.

Hmm, I'd say Excitebiker: Would be an original and interesting character due to it being a full time motorbiker.
Then I'd say Andy from Advance Wars, with some army summoning moves, and infantries and stuff.
And finally.. Chibi-Robo. I think those 3 would def. be WTF characters for me, and exciting ones as well, especially Chibi.

 

[SuperiorYoshi87]

Too many people to reply too replied so I'll just say,

I just read the whole Resetera thread that was posted here a few pages back, and it a lot of people pointed out quite a few things of note.

1) there really isn't any credible leakers who mentioned Ridley aside from the Veg guy

2) Veg (whatever) is back tracking extra hard on his sources and falling apart which makes him look bogus.

Emily Rodgers never mentioned Ridley she only ever said the roster looked good, apparently things are coming to light to expose the Ridley leaker.

So I don't see how this rumor is different than any others in the past... I think people are holding onto to this way too hard, it's like back when the Ridley shadow was being argued about for months back in Smash 4. I'm just saying don't hold onto it too tight because this all looking all too familiar.

 

[IronWarrior94]

Well yes but this time its different

Its the only one that holds the water

Part of it was 2 komani games of 61 would be for the switch and ones compilation and other on action/adventure

He got that right on the nose

And one of those could be castlevania which would explain the Simon part to promote that

Just to clarify, Vergeben wasn't the first to leak Ridley. Mods from Resetera who are backed with having credible sources have teased and hinted at Ridley beforehand.
So far, the people who are criticizing Verg are only taking his claims on Simon and Castlevania into question.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Or you could just go with one Lycanroc form and stick with it.

Seriously, just because it has multiple forms doesn't mean you have to implement all three of them into the moveset somehow.

But there's one problem with that. Lycanroc's always been marketed for the forms and that's it's main draw: Multiple forms depending on evolution. If you aren't going to use it's main gimmick, why use it?

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

To me every single Lycanroc pitch is just silly though, and is a massive stretch by Lycanroc fans to make him seem like a unique or interesting pick.

You either have to break the rules of Lycanroc, and allow him to switch between forms (which you cannot do in Pokemon), or make the character multiple Lycanrocs that you switch between. The former of which is bending the character where it's not even Lycanroc, the latter is just too silly and convoluted to justify making it work in the first place.

Honestly my biggest issue with lycanroc is, as a quadraped with no added vines or anything like ivysaur has, how do you make it pick up large items and the like without feeling forced? It just feels like the character wouldn't fit in this style of fighting game and decidueye and even mimikyu are much more believable and workable picks.

 

[A Distant Demon]

They're in separate boxes, will put him together...and it's made out of cardboard. Introducing RIDLABO!

*need to be put together*

Meta-Ridley confirmed

 

[Nekoo]

Veg (whatever) is back tracking extra hard on his sources and falling apart which makes him look bogus

Did I miss an Episode, or is that **** made up.

Because quite the contrary. He's not back tracking.
HE'S DOUBLING AND TRIPLING DOWN
Ever since Konami released their showlist that seems to match his leaks about a Castlevania compilation.

 

[Mogu]

2) Veg (whatever) is back tracking extra hard on his sources and falling apart which makes him look bogus.

Wait what? When did this happen? I've only seen GameFAQs coming up with conspiracy theories and ResetERA members eating it up just because Vergeben responded to someone saying no matter what he does there will be haters saying he's a fraud. Context?

 

[Fenriraga]

Too many people to reply too replied so I'll just say,

I just read the whole Resetera thread that was posted here a few pages back, and it a lot of people pointed out quite a few things of note.

1) there really isn't any credible leakers who mentioned Ridley aside from the Veg guy

2) Veg (whatever) is back tracking extra hard on his sources and falling apart which makes him look bogus.

Emily Rodgers never mentioned Ridley she only ever said the roster looked good, apparently things are coming to light to expose the Ridley leaker.

So I don't see how this rumor is different than any others in the past... I think people are holding onto to this way too hard, it's like back when the Ridley shadow was being argued about for months back in Smash 4. I'm just saying don't hold onto it too tight because this all looking all too familiar.

1. Yes, there are. I can't name them off the top of my head, but there are a handful of leakers/higher ups who have not-so-subtly hinted at Ridley as well. I'm sure someone here knows who.
2. He's... not really? I mean, in regards to ONE leak unrelated to Smash, yes, he admitted he had a dead lead, but what exactly are you talking about with him getting "Exposed?" Literally nothing over the past week has done anything but HELP his case.

There's keeping your expectations low, and then there's needless rationalization to convince others the leak is fake. No one is taking 100% stock in this my dude, but to completely write it off based on your loose definition of "research" is just as silly as people who ARE taking it as fact.

 

[IronWarrior94]

Too many people to reply too replied so I'll just say,

I just read the whole Resetera thread that was posted here a few pages back, and it a lot of people pointed out quite a few things of note.

1) there really isn't any credible leakers who mentioned Ridley aside from the Veg guy

2) Veg (whatever) is back tracking extra hard on his sources and falling apart which makes him look bogus.

Emily Rodgers never mentioned Ridley she only ever said the roster looked good, apparently things are coming to light to expose the Ridley leaker.

So I don't see how this rumor is different than any others in the past... I think people are holding onto to this way too hard, it's like back when the Ridley shadow was being argued about for months back in Smash 4. I'm just saying don't hold onto it too tight because this all looking all too familiar.

One of the Resetera mods who have been hinting at Ridley is vouched for being credible because he hinted at a new Nintendo game(Mario Tennis Aces I think it's called) back in January in the same teasing manner before the Direct that revealed the game took place on that same month

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Honestly my biggest issue with lycanroc is, as a quadraped with no added vines or anything like ivysaur has, how do you make it pick up large items and the like without feeling forced? It just feels like the character wouldn't fit in this style of fighting game and decidueye and even mimikyu are much more believable and workable picks.

Duck Hunt Dog carries it in it's mouth. this isn't an argument, it's just saying "I'm too lazy to actually come up with a decent argument like how it's boring, has a bad gimmick, would be a forced addition because Ash has one"

 

[SuperiorYoshi87]

Did I miss an Episode, or is that **** made up.

Because quite the contrary. He's not back tracking.
HE'S DOUBLING AND TRIPLING DOWN
Ever since Konami released their showlist that seems to match his leaks about a Castlevania compilation.

Apparently he changed the origin of his source's on Reddit recently from his original explanation.... again it's all on the Resetera thread.

I certainly hope your not implying I made that up because i most certainly didn't.....

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Honestly my biggest issue with lycanroc is, as a quadraped with no added vines or anything like ivysaur has, how do you make it pick up large items and the like without feeling forced? It just feels like the character wouldn't fit in this style of fighting game and decidueye and even mimikyu are much more believable and workable picks.

Honestly, just have it use its snout to flip it onto its back, very slowly, even with some cringing perhaps. That's not forced, but a realistic way to do it.

 

[TonyMyOnly]

All the boxes contain Ridley. Ridley walks on stage to reveal that Metroid Prime 4's official title is "Metroid Prime 4: Paper Jam"

 

[T-Hell]

I wouldn't give the Resetera mods/admins too much credit for teasing Ridley honestly. I think they were just playing the good ol' Ridley memez.

 

[papagenos]

Honestly my biggest issue with the 100+ characters thing is that while it's probably possible, are there even enough worthwhile characters to make said 100+ character roster? we're already running low on decent choices tbh. And will the series still be going on to even reach that point? it really feels like the smash series kinda has to come to an end eventually and will sakurai still want to direct the games? will they get a new director? will they let the series end with him leaving? Sad to say but it really feels like this should be the last smash game tbh, or at least the last for a VERY long time.

I think you could make a solid 100 character roster but i think the biggest issue is actually that after this next game and DLC, you truly wont have many "nintendo" all stars left, and so it would be odd if the biggest nintendo newcomers still waiting for smash 6 are say impa, daisy, or cranky kong next time...

its like those are great characters (and not saying they wont make it this game but i choose some "could miss the mark" types as example) but if next time theres no ridley/inkling/dixie or say even toad/waddle dee/waluigi left, its just gonna feel odd.

Then to get a really good roster its more about third parties and so getting like 5+ of those as the main draw of the roster will just feel a bit off and might be difficult for sakurai to pull off. A lot of the remaining nintendo newcomers might be "ship has sailed" types like krystal or isaac, who if they miss this game just might never happen and to have them as the main draw next game (without making a big come back in their main series in the mean time) will just be really odd to your average normie casual gamer.

i feel like if they do a massive amount of DLC for this game, over the next few years, it would be better and more likely we get those last few nintendo characters and a big 80+ roster for this game than trying to make another smash "work" with just a bigger roster as the draw. its just really hard to "sell" the next smash game on the remaining "scraps" of nintendo newcomers. I mean that as no offense to anyone who wants any of the characters i used as examples they just simply dont have the draw some other characters have, i infact want some of them in myself but i know if they are the last few nintendo characters with fan bases that dont get in, its tough to justify them as the "headliner" characters for an entire new smash game to most casual gamers.

 

[Fenriraga]

Okay legit question, and I mean NO offense by this, but where is all the Lycanroc stuff coming from? I'm legit just asking because I haven't the slightest clue, I played Sun and Moon to the end but have yet to finish US and UM or watch much of anything involving the anime. I'm about as casual as a Pokemon fan as they come, so I just don't keep up with its trends very well.

 

[Mogu]

Apparently he changed the origin of his source's on Reddit recently from his original explanation.... again it's all on the Resetera thread.

I certainly hope your not implying I made that up because i most certainly didn't.....

Yeah but if ResetERA got this from GameFAQs, again, some members over there started to have a field day earlier coming up with excuses for the leak definitely being a total fake and how everything Vergeben has ever said is false and blah blah blah when that is not completely the case.

There seems to be a lot of misinformation today around this on GameFAQs alone and I could be wrong but it may be making it's way over here and to other sites as well.

Edited to correct myself, my brain is mush today.

 

[SuperiorYoshi87]

1. Yes, there are. I can't name them off the top of my head, but there are a handful of leakers/higher ups who have not-so-subtly hinted at Ridley as well. I'm sure someone here knows who.
2. He's... not really? I mean, in regards to ONE leak unrelated to Smash, yes, he admitted he had a dead lead, but what exactly are you talking about with him getting "Exposed?" Literally nothing over the past week has done anything but HELP his case.

There's keeping your expectations low, and then there's needless rationalization to convince others the leak is fake. No one is taking 100% stock in this my dude, but to completely write it off based on your loose definition of "research" is just as silly as people who ARE taking it as fact.

I'm just sharing what I read in the Resetera thread... jesus.

I'm just telling people to take it with a grain of salt because things looking bad for it... I'm not completely dismissing the rumor either it's just good to look from both the positive and negative... I don't need to be insulted either with snide comments man. It's not like I'm coming on here calling people idiots I'm just trying to have a conversation.

 

[The Legendary Beast]

I wouldn't give the Resetera mods/admins too much credit for teasing Ridley honestly. I think they were just playing the good ol' Ridley memez.

I don't think they are. As has been said multiple times on here, Jonneh hinted at Mario Tennis Aces before it's announcement in a similar fashion. Just because they teased it with a Ridley joke doesn't mean it's not to be taken seriously.

 

[Arcadenik]

Duck Hunt Dog carries it in it's mouth. this isn't an argument, it's just saying "I'm too lazy to actually come up with a decent argument like how it's boring, has a bad gimmick, would be a forced addition because Ash has one"

Yes, Duck Hunt Dog carries items in his mouth but he stands on two legs whenever he uses items. He also walks on two legs when he is carrying heavy items.

 

[Khao]

https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/super-smash-bros-switch
So apparently Smash is on the EShop now.

omg what if this is the title

 

[Cosmic77]

But there's one problem with that. Lycanroc's always been marketed for the forms and that's it's main draw: Multiple forms depending on evolution. If you aren't going to use it's main gimmick, why use it?

Main gimmick or not, there's plenty more to Lycanroc than just, "It's nighttime! Can't wait for my Rockruff to evolve into a Midnight Lycanroc!" It's got it's own exclusive Z-move, and that's something not many Pokémon can say. It also has geokinesis, which is something you could easily get creative with when making a moveset.

Duck Hunt Dog carries it in it's mouth. this isn't an argument, it's just saying "I'm too lazy to actually come up with a decent argument like how it's boring, has a bad gimmick, would be a forced addition because Ash has one"

I appreciate the rebuttal to the holding items argument, but that last part isn't fair to Lycanroc supporters. You can't dismiss it as being "forced" just because you can't see the same potential in it.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Duck Hunt Dog carries it in it's mouth. this isn't an argument, it's just saying "I'm too lazy to actually come up with a decent argument like how it's boring, has a bad gimmick, would be a forced addition because Ash has one"

Duck hunt dog can also stand on 2 legs if it needs to, lycanroc can't do that

 

[IronWarrior94]

Okay legit question, and I mean NO offense by this, but where is all the Lycanroc stuff coming from? I'm legit just asking because I haven't the slightest clue, I played Sun and Moon to the end but have yet to finish US and UM or watch much of anything involving the anime. I'm about as casual as a Pokemon fan as they come, so I just don't keep up with its trends very well.

Source Gaming's rate the character videos, they did one for Lycanroc today

 

[Hinata]

Bill Trinen: The tournament is going to be designed to show quite a bit of the game in terms of modes, characters, and items, but obviously we won’t show everything and we’re keeping a few surprises for later in the year

Source: https://t.co/VGZLCc0NUF pic.twitter.com/9qHkIfDs3L

— Toad’s Nintendo News (@MailToadINTEL) June 7, 2018

Just some food for discussion.

 

[Zerp]

Bill Trinen: The tournament is going to be designed to show quite a bit of the game in terms of modes, characters, and items, but obviously we won’t show everything and we’re keeping a few surprises for later in the year

Source: https://t.co/VGZLCc0NUF pic.twitter.com/9qHkIfDs3L

— Toad’s Nintendo News (@MailToadINTEL) June 7, 2018

Just some food for discussion.

>Items confirmed
>Modes confirmed
How does it feel knowing that this is literally the most information we've gotten about the game in months?

 

[Nekoo]

>Items confirmed
>Modes confirmed
How does it feel knowing that this is literally the most information we've gotten about the game in months?

Bittersweet. Exciting and Sad.

 

[Fenriraga]

I'm just sharing what I read in the Resetera thread... jesus.

I'm just telling people to take it with a grain of salt because things looking bad for it... I'm not completely dismissing the rumor either it's just good to look from both the positive and negative... I don't need to be insulted either with snide comments man. It's not like I'm coming on here calling people idiots I'm just trying to have a conversation.

Hey now, I'm not meaning to throw out insults. I'm just blunt with stuff like this. If you legit took that as an insult then I'm sorry I didn't articulate myself better.

All I'm saying is you're not mentioning anything we haven't already discussed, and the point you brought up changes literally nothing about the leak's current stance and just seems like reaching to me.

 

[MBRedboy31]

Duck hunt dog can also stand on 2 legs if it needs to, lycanroc can't do that

Lycanroc can hold the items with a couple Stealth Rocks; maybe a tad of a stretch compared to what they do in-game, but it clearly has geokinesis, so it isn’t too illogical.

 

[Zippo]

>Items confirmed
>Modes confirmed
How does it feel knowing that this is literally the most information we've gotten about the game in months?

That is actually hilarious lmao

 

[Arcadenik]

>Items confirmed
>Modes confirmed
How does it feel knowing that this is literally the most information we've gotten about the game in months?

Not enough information. I mean, of course, modes and items are a given. We need to know WHAT modes and WHAT items are in the game.

 

[Khao]

Bill Trinen: The tournament is going to be designed to show quite a bit of the game in terms of modes, characters, and items, but obviously we won’t show everything and we’re keeping a few surprises for later in the year

Source: https://t.co/VGZLCc0NUF pic.twitter.com/9qHkIfDs3L

— Toad’s Nintendo News (@MailToadINTEL) June 7, 2018

Just some food for discussion.

They want to specifically show off a lot of the game's features, but they still want to keep more surprises to reveal at a later date?

It's over. This is a port, guys.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Lycanroc can hold the items with a couple Stealth Rocks; maybe a tad of a stretch compared to what they do in-game, but it clearly has geokinesis, so it isn’t too illogical.

that's kinda what I meant by "without feeling forced" that idea just doesn't sit right with me tbh

 

[TheWozny]

I am ridley for this E3

 

[Fenriraga]

Bill Trinen: The tournament is going to be designed to show quite a bit of the game in terms of modes, characters, and items, but obviously we won’t show everything and we’re keeping a few surprises for later in the year

Source: https://t.co/VGZLCc0NUF pic.twitter.com/9qHkIfDs3L

— Toad’s Nintendo News (@MailToadINTEL) June 7, 2018

Just some food for discussion.

"Later in the year"

Well, I feel like that pretty much says we're not about to be surprised about the game's release date. A statement like that makes me feel like they'd want a decent chunk of time to gradually show off everything about this game, meaning I don't think the September/Side by Side with the online service date is likely.

...Lordy, I'm so desperate for news that I'm digging really hard into a single friggin blanket statement by Bill. Is it Tuesday yet?

 

[Zeox]

Bill Trinen: The tournament is going to be designed to show quite a bit of the game in terms of modes, characters, and items, but obviously we won’t show everything and we’re keeping a few surprises for later in the year

Source: https://t.co/VGZLCc0NUF pic.twitter.com/9qHkIfDs3L

— Toad’s Nintendo News (@MailToadINTEL) June 7, 2018

Just some food for discussion.

I like oranges too.

 

[Bowserlick]

Lycanroc can be depicted standing on two legs to carry a heavy item (although there are other options: resting it on his back or using a power to levitate it, perhaps with pebbles and rocks floating alongside).

Some dogs can stand on their hind legs for a limited time. Doing this and using its front paws to clasp the item while in that position would certainly work visually.

 

[SuperMasterHand]

Spoiler: My Roster Prediction

Here is my first adempt (ever in smash history) at a roster prediction
I assume everyone is returning from Smash4, and that the Brawl cuts come back, 12 newcomers (2 new third party)
I don't think this roster is too unrealitic, but still would feel like the perfect roster for me

(I also had fun making the menu in the same black/white style as the logo)