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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion
- Thread starter IntelliHeath1
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I mean on one hand, NDAs.
On the other hand, yikes. I mean I always figured Celica was about a 60/40 (70/30 on a good day) of getting in, but you can't win 'em all, if this does pan out to be a disconfirmation.And even then maybe she has a shot at DLC if the protagonist of FE16 is super boring. 
I will say, though, that if Celica isn't in, we won't get a Fire Emblem newcomer for the base game. Lyn's popularity wasn't known to IS until it was too late, FE16 came around too late, Alm has Chrom syndrome, Alfonse has worse Chrom syndrome than Chrom did, and Heroes in general may have been too late to factor in.
On the other hand, yikes. I mean I always figured Celica was about a 60/40 (70/30 on a good day) of getting in, but you can't win 'em all, if this does pan out to be a disconfirmation.
I will say, though, that if Celica isn't in, we won't get a Fire Emblem newcomer for the base game. Lyn's popularity wasn't known to IS until it was too late, FE16 came around too late, Alm has Chrom syndrome, Alfonse has worse Chrom syndrome than Chrom did, and Heroes in general may have been too late to factor in.
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MamaLuigi123456
Smash Champion
OK I wanna go on a little rant here and pick apart RelaxAlax's video of Smash 4, which I saw last night and absolutely HATE.
"Super Smash Bros. for Wii U is, in one word, underwhelming."
H O W? Smash 4 has a substantial amount of content, has great stages, great music, and great characters (THE LATTER TWO OF WHICH YOU AGREED WITH).
You want underwhelming? Go play Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3. I'd explain how it is underwhelming but... it really goes without saying honestly.
"I had so much fun playing 8-Player Smash with a huge group of people."
OK sure, you had fun with 8-Player Smash. It was a bit too chaotic for my tastes, but alright. But why are you showing footage of you playing with CPU-controlled opponents? Kinda goes against your point there.
"None of these [single-player] modes offer up anything that's all that different."
OK so all of the single-player modes feel like they're the same, being nothing but "Multi-Man Melee" as you describe it. That's fair.
But that was the case for all Smash games, buddy. In all games, every single-player mode has you beating up opponents. Classic, Adventure, All-Star, Event Matches (95% of the time at least), doesn't matter. They all have a focus on that. The only mode I think offered anything new was the Subspace Emissary in Brawl which, while I liked it, had its own slew of issues, and still a good chunk of it was 1-v-1 combat. To an extent, Melee's Adventure Mode offered something different as well, having some platforming-focused stages, but then again they took up only about 1/3 of the mode. The rest were, again, about beating up opponents.
So the modes were downgraded from their previous incarnations. Alright, I'll give you that. But you can't pin that on reasons that the rest of the games "suffer" from as well, especially when you go out of your way to praise them.
"[...]and there's Smash 4. I mean, you collect, like, under 10 characters through several modes that you can do very quickly, and then anything else is just Custom Moves, and Trophies."
Alright, so unlockables are toned down a bit for this game. I'll say that, while I did like how unlockable characters required you to work for them, so you get a sense of progression and accomplishment, and would definitely like for that to come back, I do realize that how Smash 4 handled its unlockables is the objective best way to do it. My dream game would see Melee- or Brawl-style unlockables, but with a cheat code that allows players to unlock all characters from the beginning, as in that case everyone wins, but I digress.
It's 2018. Key features like characters don't get locked away like that anymore.
"[...]everything about this game comes back to Sakurai not making a competitive fighter, so its platform-fighter roots, ruin the 1-v-1 experience. To me. I will emphasize that. It's for me."
I'll say this, it's completely fair to say that Smash 4 doesn't have a good 1-v-1 experience, as that's subjective. I personally don't agree, but whatever. But you can't pin that on Smash's origins as a platform-fighter when you go out of your way to emphasize how better Melee and Brawl were when they virtually share the same "issue" as well. That's not how arguments work.
"This Smash game is often cited as one of the most balanced. But the only reason I think that is, is because, all characters on the roster lack any really powerful tools. To me, what it looks like is, none of these characters are anything remarkable, it's just that they're all equally bad."
With the issue being...........................? I mean sure, maybe all the characters are weaker than in previous games (which they aren't, everyone except Dedede, Falco, Jigglypuff, Meta Knight, and Zelda got a good balance of buffs and nerfs, give or take a few), but if they're all equally balanced and, above all, cleverly-designed and fun to play as, I see no issue with that.
"Maybe it's the sound effects, maybe it's the visual effects, but when you hit someone hard in this game, it just doesn't feel like it. I don't get the satisfaction."
Well no **** the attacks don't feel like they have any weight to them, because all you have in the footage are jabs and neutral aerials. What about smash attacks? A good amount of special attacks? That little red flash thing that signifies "Oh, you KO'ed someone, almost guaranteed!"? Hell, you show these off in Melee, and it was the exact same case there too!
"High percent? That makes you stronger! On and if you're off the stage, let's just get you right back up there young man! Is this the Canada of fighting games?"
I don't really have a comment on this. I just think he tried to be funny here and failed miserably, but hey, that's subjective, maybe you thought it was funny, I didn't, but whatever, moving on:
"If it's this unsatisfying in 1-v-1, I may as play it where it is fun, in 8-Player Smash, with Items- THAT WAS THE POINT WASN'T IT?"
Yes. It's always been the point. Smash has always been made to be a casual, party game. And yeah, Smash 4 catered to the competitive scene with its redone physics and removal of random tripping, as well as Omega stages, but the series is, at its core, a game that is made to be played with friends. I also fail to see how the 1-v-1 experience is unsatisfying. I've played multiple 1-v-1 matches online, and it's some of the most fun I've had.
And I know I'm going into a bit of a rant within a rant (rantception???), but here's my take: if you look at Super Smash Bros. through a completely competitive standpoint, you're looking at it wrong. Like, so wrong. It's for this reason that I can't stand how SmashWiki is written through an almost exclusive competitive eye. Sure, I know why it's written like that, because it's made by competitive Smash players, but that still doesn't change the fact that isn't how all players see the game. Hell, I'd be willing to bet they're actually in the minority.
And no, I'm not knocking you if you play competitively, you do you, these are just my thoughts.
I know that this is completely unrelated to Smash 5 predictions but... GOD this review made me so angry with how poorly RelaxAlax made his points and like, I just wanted to vent it out, yknow? Really the only decent things he brought up were Smash Tour, which I agree sucks, and I guess to an extent Rage and the new ledge mechanics, which I don't really mind at all.
Best part of the whole video was when he opened up his box of good points, and it was empty.
The irony.
Anyways that ends my mini-rant, carry on please.
"Super Smash Bros. for Wii U is, in one word, underwhelming."
H O W? Smash 4 has a substantial amount of content, has great stages, great music, and great characters (THE LATTER TWO OF WHICH YOU AGREED WITH).
You want underwhelming? Go play Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3. I'd explain how it is underwhelming but... it really goes without saying honestly.
"I had so much fun playing 8-Player Smash with a huge group of people."
OK sure, you had fun with 8-Player Smash. It was a bit too chaotic for my tastes, but alright. But why are you showing footage of you playing with CPU-controlled opponents? Kinda goes against your point there.
"None of these [single-player] modes offer up anything that's all that different."
OK so all of the single-player modes feel like they're the same, being nothing but "Multi-Man Melee" as you describe it. That's fair.
But that was the case for all Smash games, buddy. In all games, every single-player mode has you beating up opponents. Classic, Adventure, All-Star, Event Matches (95% of the time at least), doesn't matter. They all have a focus on that. The only mode I think offered anything new was the Subspace Emissary in Brawl which, while I liked it, had its own slew of issues, and still a good chunk of it was 1-v-1 combat. To an extent, Melee's Adventure Mode offered something different as well, having some platforming-focused stages, but then again they took up only about 1/3 of the mode. The rest were, again, about beating up opponents.
So the modes were downgraded from their previous incarnations. Alright, I'll give you that. But you can't pin that on reasons that the rest of the games "suffer" from as well, especially when you go out of your way to praise them.
"[...]and there's Smash 4. I mean, you collect, like, under 10 characters through several modes that you can do very quickly, and then anything else is just Custom Moves, and Trophies."
Alright, so unlockables are toned down a bit for this game. I'll say that, while I did like how unlockable characters required you to work for them, so you get a sense of progression and accomplishment, and would definitely like for that to come back, I do realize that how Smash 4 handled its unlockables is the objective best way to do it. My dream game would see Melee- or Brawl-style unlockables, but with a cheat code that allows players to unlock all characters from the beginning, as in that case everyone wins, but I digress.
It's 2018. Key features like characters don't get locked away like that anymore.
"[...]everything about this game comes back to Sakurai not making a competitive fighter, so its platform-fighter roots, ruin the 1-v-1 experience. To me. I will emphasize that. It's for me."
I'll say this, it's completely fair to say that Smash 4 doesn't have a good 1-v-1 experience, as that's subjective. I personally don't agree, but whatever. But you can't pin that on Smash's origins as a platform-fighter when you go out of your way to emphasize how better Melee and Brawl were when they virtually share the same "issue" as well. That's not how arguments work.
"This Smash game is often cited as one of the most balanced. But the only reason I think that is, is because, all characters on the roster lack any really powerful tools. To me, what it looks like is, none of these characters are anything remarkable, it's just that they're all equally bad."
With the issue being...........................? I mean sure, maybe all the characters are weaker than in previous games (which they aren't, everyone except Dedede, Falco, Jigglypuff, Meta Knight, and Zelda got a good balance of buffs and nerfs, give or take a few), but if they're all equally balanced and, above all, cleverly-designed and fun to play as, I see no issue with that.
"Maybe it's the sound effects, maybe it's the visual effects, but when you hit someone hard in this game, it just doesn't feel like it. I don't get the satisfaction."
Well no **** the attacks don't feel like they have any weight to them, because all you have in the footage are jabs and neutral aerials. What about smash attacks? A good amount of special attacks? That little red flash thing that signifies "Oh, you KO'ed someone, almost guaranteed!"? Hell, you show these off in Melee, and it was the exact same case there too!
"High percent? That makes you stronger! On and if you're off the stage, let's just get you right back up there young man! Is this the Canada of fighting games?"
I don't really have a comment on this. I just think he tried to be funny here and failed miserably, but hey, that's subjective, maybe you thought it was funny, I didn't, but whatever, moving on:
"If it's this unsatisfying in 1-v-1, I may as play it where it is fun, in 8-Player Smash, with Items- THAT WAS THE POINT WASN'T IT?"
Yes. It's always been the point. Smash has always been made to be a casual, party game. And yeah, Smash 4 catered to the competitive scene with its redone physics and removal of random tripping, as well as Omega stages, but the series is, at its core, a game that is made to be played with friends. I also fail to see how the 1-v-1 experience is unsatisfying. I've played multiple 1-v-1 matches online, and it's some of the most fun I've had.
And I know I'm going into a bit of a rant within a rant (rantception???), but here's my take: if you look at Super Smash Bros. through a completely competitive standpoint, you're looking at it wrong. Like, so wrong. It's for this reason that I can't stand how SmashWiki is written through an almost exclusive competitive eye. Sure, I know why it's written like that, because it's made by competitive Smash players, but that still doesn't change the fact that isn't how all players see the game. Hell, I'd be willing to bet they're actually in the minority.
And no, I'm not knocking you if you play competitively, you do you, these are just my thoughts.
I know that this is completely unrelated to Smash 5 predictions but... GOD this review made me so angry with how poorly RelaxAlax made his points and like, I just wanted to vent it out, yknow? Really the only decent things he brought up were Smash Tour, which I agree sucks, and I guess to an extent Rage and the new ledge mechanics, which I don't really mind at all.
Best part of the whole video was when he opened up his box of good points, and it was empty.
The irony.
Anyways that ends my mini-rant, carry on please.
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TMNTSSB4
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Good thing Alfonse ain’t better than AnnaI mean on one hand, NDAs.
On the other hand, yikes. I mean I always figured Celica was about a 60/40 (70/30 on a good day) of getting in, but you can't win 'em all, if this does pan out to be a disconfirmation. And even then maybe she has a shot at DLC if the protagonist of FE16 is super boring.
I will say, though, that if Celica isn't in, we won't get a Fire Emblem newcomer for the base game. Lyn's popularity wasn't known to IS until it was too late, FE16 came around too late, Alm has Chrom syndrome, Alfonse has worse Chrom syndrome than Chrom did, and Heroes in general may have been too late to factor in.
KingBroly
Smash Lord
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But what's more reliable Desvergeben or that imgur leak?
BluePikmin11
Akko is my dear daughter!
I don't see the VA tweet as a de-confirmation for Celica.
But if she does not end up being playable in the game, I would not be surprised.
But if she does not end up being playable in the game, I would not be surprised.
Gotta go for my pal Rayman
StrangeMann
Smash Ace
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DasVergeben, It's likely the imgur leak is a piggyback on Vergeben's leak. On the off chance Imgur leak is real, Vergeben's leak is also real so that automatically makes Vergeben's more legitimate anyway. However there's also evidence that Vergeben knows some people who know what is coming involving konami's involvement in nintendo switch,
Bradli Wartooth
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IMDb and VAs tweeting that they didn't work on the game don't prove anything. VAs aren't going to break NDAs if they want to work on a game in the future, and I could go edit IMDb right now to say Jennifer Lawrence voiced Iron Man in Smash Switch right now.
KingBroly
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Well the reason I ask is because some things on the imgur leak popped up before Vergeben said anything about it, Snake specifically.
Nekoo
Smash Master
Actually it does. They could just Ignores it y'know the usual when you're under NDA.
Or do like Chrom's VA or Xander Mobius.
when under NDA say that you're under NDA.
deconfirming things is usually breaking NDA
So if they can deconfirm it, it means they're not under NDA so they don't lie
Arcadenik
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If the compilation game for the Switch is really Castlevania then I hope it has the following games:
At the minimum:
- Castlevania (NES)
- Castlevania II: Simon's Quest (NES)
- Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse (NES)
- Super Castlevania IV (SNES)
If Konami is feeling very generous:
- Castlevania: Rondo of Blood (TurboGrafx-16)
- Castlevania: Bloodlines (Sega Genesis)
- Castlevania: Symphony of the Night (PS1)
- Castlevania Chronicles (PS1)
- Castlevania The Adventure ReBirth (Wii)
If Konami is really sorry about the pachinko games:
- Castlevania: Circle of the Moon (GBA)
- Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance (GBA)
- Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow (GBA)
- Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow (DS)
- Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin (DS)
- Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia (DS)
Too much, no?
At the minimum:
- Castlevania (NES)
- Castlevania II: Simon's Quest (NES)
- Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse (NES)
- Super Castlevania IV (SNES)
If Konami is feeling very generous:
- Castlevania: Rondo of Blood (TurboGrafx-16)
- Castlevania: Bloodlines (Sega Genesis)
- Castlevania: Symphony of the Night (PS1)
- Castlevania Chronicles (PS1)
- Castlevania The Adventure ReBirth (Wii)
If Konami is really sorry about the pachinko games:
- Castlevania: Circle of the Moon (GBA)
- Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance (GBA)
- Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow (GBA)
- Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow (DS)
- Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin (DS)
- Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia (DS)
Too much, no?
Nekoo
Smash Master
Just having Symphony of the Night.
Even as a standalone game would be a miracle. Which is why I hope Vergeben is true about that one.
ReeseBalaski
Smash Journeyman
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Having no Celica would make me sad. But I still have my hopes.
Although Nintendo seems fairly consistent with it's NDA particulars, each agreement could potentially have it's own set of rules and guidelines for given circumstances. Most of the time Nintendo opts for silence rather then confirm or deny. However it is possible, although unlikely that they could have put them under a strict deny policy in regards to social media. I can't 100% for certain take that tweet as a disconfirmation, also maybe localization isn't complete?
Vergeben may have stated the Konami Switch games before Konami announced it, but did Vergeben know about those games before Stealth leaked them/ made it public knowledge?
Meaning Vergeben could have gotten his information from that leak, and not his own sources, which could mean sightly less credibility.
Vergeben may have stated the Konami Switch games before Konami announced it, but did Vergeben know about those games before Stealth leaked them/ made it public knowledge?
Meaning Vergeben could have gotten his information from that leak, and not his own sources, which could mean sightly less credibility.
Nekoo
Smash Master
Vergeben says that Symphony of the Night which is a PS1 game and another WiiWare game are in the compilation.
So if the Castlevania compilation is announced without them, you can call piggybacking if they're in, he have a source
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D
Deleted member
Guest
The Belmont son.
No contest for me.
I could lose half of Smash 4 newcomers to have Simon Belmont, Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy, Mega Man and Little Mac in the roster. Everyone else is just sacrifice for my desires.
Mogu
Smash Apprentice
Welp, took a month break since I honestly got bored and...boy...some interesting leaks and credibility have emerged from what I'm reading and understanding. I want Vergeben to be correct for Ridley and Snake alone.
Oh and give me Symphony of the Night pls.
Oh and give me Symphony of the Night pls.
CyberHyperPhoenix
"Download Complete."
"But this info about the two Castlevania games come from someone mighty reputable (who also has heard the same Smash leaks that I have, in case you are curious) so I have no reason to not believe them first and foremost."
He claims that the Smash leaks and Castlevania leaks are from the same source, so if one gets confirmed pre-E3, the chances of the other being legit will probably be high.
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MopedOfJustice
Smash Lord
Just from a practical standpoint, I really don't see how they'd have the DS games on Switch, though I wish that they would.
...And now I'm back to mourning that Soma and Shanoa have no chance in hell of ever appearing.
Bradli Wartooth
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Well I'm sure they were ignoring it til now. For w/e reason it's now on a public site stating that they did in fact work on the game, and if they just ignore it, people may assume that it's true.
EDIT: And also they may be trying to save themselves from the potential assumption from Nintendo that the entry on imdb was approved by them.
Lastly, didn't Shulk's va say he didn't work on Smash before Smash 4? I may be wrong.
EDIT: And also they may be trying to save themselves from the potential assumption from Nintendo that the entry on imdb was approved by them.
Lastly, didn't Shulk's va say he didn't work on Smash before Smash 4? I may be wrong.
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Smashoperatingbuddy123
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If vegen piggyback how did he suposivly know Simon would be playable
He was probably took the castlevania source Sam a grain of salt near the begining
He was probably took the castlevania source Sam a grain of salt near the begining
Nekoo
Smash Master
Shulk just said "I work on that big game but if I say anything I'm dead"
Also
>Anyone believing IMDb after Epona being voiced by 50-cent
Lmao
M_Patch
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Same guy.
https://twitter.com/Stealth___/status/990018281930199040
https://twitter.com/Stealth___/status/999350035061137409
Seems like it could be piggybacking to me
SvartWolf
Smash Champion
No castlevania legacy of darkness? My hearth is oficially broken
Almost still got Zeraora and Impa. Hmm here an interesting a little notion for kicks, whatever character icons left in your signature that are not broken, are the ones coming to Smash.
I don't think we're getting an FE newcomer this time. Fates was the last big release and it's already included, not to mention even Sakurai started to think it was a bit much by the time they got to DLC inclusions. If Corrin wasn't already in he'd be added in this game instead. The timing would be about right too (2016 project plan, 2015/2016 release date).
Just because new games come out doesn't mean they need to be in Smash. I wonder if the final roster will reflect that at all.
Just because new games come out doesn't mean they need to be in Smash. I wonder if the final roster will reflect that at all.
Smashoperatingbuddy123
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The point is piggyback or not
It's probably a now it all makes sense thing on Simon being playable
It's probably a now it all makes sense thing on Simon being playable
SvartWolf
Smash Champion
maybe he wasnt really feeling it...
Arcadenik
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LOL They can always make a second compilation with 3D Castlevania games.No castlevania legacy of darkness? My hearth is oficially broken
It appears chronologically all the information about Konami games/ Snake (Edit: Simon) came from either Stealth or Konami prior to Vergeben speaking of them...
Except for maybe the specifics on the Castlevania Collection?
Correct me if i'm wrong here, i'm not trying to tunnel vision a specific result.
Except for maybe the specifics on the Castlevania Collection?
Correct me if i'm wrong here, i'm not trying to tunnel vision a specific result.
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Tree Gelbman
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Wonder if my icons are broken.
Nope. All there.
Well there you have it folks. Freddy Krueger, Michael Myers, and Jason Voorhees for Smash at E3.
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Nekoo
Smash Master
Stealth from memory, only talked about Simon
Vergeben is the one who talked about Snake.
ZenythSmash
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that only adds up to the rumor regardless, even backing the Simon rumors before this came public
tho i think it'll be good to ask how old was his info he was messaged from the refutable source, just in case
MysticKnives
Smash Ace
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Things are getting interesting now...
ReeseBalaski
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So, Ridley, Simon, Snake, and Ice Climbers, huh?
The latter two would make for some cool returns, and I've softened up towards Ridley given how chill his fans have become.
Simon would be a pretty fun newcomer to have. Though I'm surprised he hasn't been in Smash already considering Castlevania's huge presence on early Nintendo consoles. But Konami is Konami, I guess.
So even if the surprise factor would be lost, I'm still hoping for this leak to be real.
The latter two would make for some cool returns, and I've softened up towards Ridley given how chill his fans have become.
Simon would be a pretty fun newcomer to have. Though I'm surprised he hasn't been in Smash already considering Castlevania's huge presence on early Nintendo consoles. But Konami is Konami, I guess.
So even if the surprise factor would be lost, I'm still hoping for this leak to be real.
Bradli Wartooth
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Hilarious that the only way to quell his fans was to beat them into emotional submission with Smash 4
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