Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[osby]

Smash stopped being about all-stars since Roy got in

I'm sure Ice Climbers got in before him.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I'm honestly surprised more large stuff hasn't out right leaked yet. Even the ''leaked" ''leaked" stuff is still up for interpretation and speculation.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm sure Ice Climbers got in before him.

Ice Climbers had a game before being added to Smash

Fixed that for ya.

While that's also true, the amount of people acting like Earthbound/Mother is actually really popular who'd 'correct' me is something I didn't want to potentially deal with

 

[Troykv]

You're trying to use a different definition from what Sakurai is doing. All he's doing is taking a character and creating another character using their assets as a base. His way of creating clones isn't similar to other games at all. He has more than one way to do one, as he has unique development processes. The only thing in common is that most clones were last minute(Toon Link is one of the few exceptions to this, but to be fair, he was a retool of Young Link's role, so it was pretty much just a vet with a new paint job. On the other hand, Jigglypuff is usually done last, despite being a vet).

Wolf is like this(retool of Fox). Lucario is not like this(he is not a retool of Mewtwo). Jigglypuff is like this(retool of Kirby). Ike is not like this(not a retool of Roy). I could go on. Wolf still is by definition a type of clone. As he's taking and reusing another character as an overall base.

Every character with cloned aspects is clone to at least some level.

I like using the term "Pure-Clone" and "Semi-Clone" because these terms explains how similar the cloned character is from their original sources; regardless of see it's a fan term or not.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Smash was never about all-stars, it's just a platform fighter that happens to include a handful of all-stars.

 

[KingIceSonic]

I heard that they are sending smash desmos to stores in order to set up of E3, I hope something leaks soon

Take requests to the icons thread in the future https://smashboards.com/threads/smash-switchs-signature-icons-thread.453386/

And, uhh, do you mean that genderbent Joker? Or is this just a joke?

No not genderbent, a THICC male joker, I'll request it in the other board thanks

 

[osby]

Ice Climbers had a game before being added to Smash

While that's also true, the amount of people acting like Earthbound/Mother is actually really popular who'd 'correct' me is something I didn't want to potentially deal with

Having a game ensures you're an all-star? That solves a lot of problems.



Jokes aside, Roy and Ice Climbers are the only truly obscure characters when they were added and Roy's was a mistake.

 

[StupendousMike]

Smash was never about all-stars, it's just a platform fighter that happens to include a handful of all-stars.

The starting roster of Smash 64 is absoluty an All Star roster. But that does fadesome once you get to the unlockables, save Luigi.

 

[Troykv]

If we're that strict with which are the "All Stars"

Then only the Brawl Base Roster (but Pit and Ike) + Marth, Villager, Isabelle, (also Toad... but) and Inkling (and the Smash 4 Base Third Party +Ryu and Cloud) deserve to be in the roster.

But we need more interesting stuff, I admire Sakurai's decisions.

 

[SvartWolf]

I'm honestly surprised more large stuff hasn't out right leaked yet. Even the ''leaked" ''leaked" stuff is still up for interpretation and speculation.

the sad thing is with the ammount of information we have, even pikachu fighting kirby on battlefield would be a juicy leak.

Ive been suspecting that the reason they been doing this with the least ammount of info and leaks is cause they feel like revealing the game outside of a great reveal that manages to make the point across of exactly what kind of deal smash5 is going to hurt the game. and i honestly suspecting they may do after all a soft reboot.

that indeed this is completeley different for smash4 and they are waiting to ciment the bases for a future "smash as live service" akin to Heroes of the storm or Overwatch. which may mean that we may be getting a very very limited roster (around 25 or 30 characters including 5 high profile newcomers in order to appease fans outrage) and they instantly could bare their plans of seasons and updates with the missing veterans and new newcomers.

Maybe the model will entail a one time purchase akin to overwatch, and free updates (and use it as a way to keep selling switch online service) or maybe an hybrid model where you can either purchase a season and be able to play it freely offline, or being suscribed to switch online gives you access to all the content free. the only question mark that such a model would left are third parties.

My point is, if they are doing something kinda different, and that may look as a downgrade at a first glance, they probably will want to keep as much control as they need in order to present the product in a convincing way.

just my 2 cents. I really want a day one 75 roster as some of the people here are predicting.... but i dint see it too feasible honestly. not whith this development time. but hey, hope to be wrong!

 

[NeonBurrito]

I'm honestly surprised more large stuff hasn't out right leaked yet. Even the ''leaked" ''leaked" stuff is still up for interpretation and speculation.

It would not surprise me at all if this was the strictest Nintendo has ever been on leaks, in maybe all of their decades of being a company.
They know how Smash is in incredibly high demand, and they hate it when stuff gets leaked (see: Nintendo ninjas on the ESRB YouTube video leaks). They do not want their surprise ruined, and they'll try their damn hardest to keep it that way.

 

[kirbstr]

I don't see what's so hard for people to understand about that.

It's hard to understand for people because you are wording a lot of what you are trying to say poorly. From what I understand, you are saying that characters with similar models will share some animations and moves especially if they have similar abilities as it is easier on the devs. What people misunderstand from you is that they think you are saying she can ONLY be a clone because of her similarities to Diddy.


You also made a really bad point about comparing already existing clones to a character that isn't even in the game. You can't ask "why IS toon link a clone" and compare that to asking why someone thinks a nonexisting character WOULDN'T BE a clone. I think you have the whole idea of clones backward. I believe Sakurai has stated on his inclusion of Dark Pit and Lucina that they did not detract from development time from other characters and were added as bonus characters after the main roster had been finished. So in other words, Dark Pit DID NOT HAVE TO BE a clone if he were to be in Smash. They could have very well made him 100% original from Pit if they had wanted to. The reason they didn't was that he was not planned for the initial roster. In this case, people advocating for Dixie Kong believe she would be a high-priority character who would get unique development despite her similarities to Diddy.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm honestly surprised more large stuff hasn't out right leaked yet. Even the ''leaked" ''leaked" stuff is still up for interpretation and speculation.

Same. I'd like to see something. I mean, beyond the known roster(Inklings, Link, Mario). Even how different Link could be. Is it just a costume? Different animations due to having a potentially different main hand? New abilities?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It would not surprise me at all if this was the strictest Nintendo has ever been on leaks, in maybe all of their decades of being a company.
They know how Smash is in incredibly high demand, and they hate it when stuff gets leaked (see: Nintendo ninjas on the ESRB YouTube video leaks). They do not want their surprise ruined, and they'll try their damn hardest to keep it that way.

Honestly I won't feel bad when it leaks because they thought it would be a good idea to not show anything for 3 months

 

[P.Kat]

I'll still actually be around. I don't like to shove Joker down peoples throats, but at the same time he's the first character I've ever felt this passionate about, and he's the first character I've been passionate about that I think actually has a chance. You can still expect to see me here, but I likely will not be as engaged in any conversation that doesn't revolve around Joker. Thanks for enjoying my commentary on the subject, though!

Yeah, I feel the same way about Lyn too. Your enthusiasm for Joker and Persona 5 is so infectious that I'm not ordering Persona 5 at the end of the week, but FIRST THING IN THE MORNING WHEN I WAKE UP You also got me feeling more passionate for my character Lyn, and I'm pretty sure others feel more of the same for their characters now AND yours too (I never knew how much I wanted Joker in Smash now). So thanks for sharing your excitement for your character with us hopefully we all get to talk about Persona 5 again.

Edit: You made the Zeraora tag? Thanks so much for making it, I'm hoping he makes it no matter how slim their chances are.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Wolf is the type of clone that we all need.

Dark Pit is the kind that we do not.

We want them to play differently, look different, have different standard attacks, and simply be 'inspired by' rather than 'copied from'.

That “we” definitely does not include me

It's hard to understand for people because you are wording a lot of what you are trying to say poorly. From what I understand, you are saying that characters with similar models will share some animations and moves especially if they have similar abilities as it is easier on the devs. What people misunderstand from you is that they think you are saying she can ONLY be a clone because of her similarities to Diddy.


You also made a really bad point about comparing already existing clones to a character that isn't even in the game. You can't ask "why IS toon link a clone" and compare that to asking why someone thinks a nonexisting character WOULDN'T BE a clone. I think you have the whole idea of clones backward. I believe Sakurai has stated on his inclusion of Dark Pit and Lucina that they did not detract from development time from other characters and were added as bonus characters after the main roster had been finished. So in other words, Dark Pit DID NOT HAVE TO BE a clone if he were to be in Smash. They could have very well made him 100% original from Pit if they had wanted to. The reason they didn't was that he was not planned for the initial roster. In this case, people advocating for Dixie Kong believe she would be a high-priority character who would get unique development despite her similarities to Diddy.

In the end his Smash playstyle of ripping off Pit works considering they fight the exact same in both Uprising and Smash

 

[Retroend]

just 7 days left guys. can we hold out a little longer?

 

[Zinith]

just 7 days left guys. can we hold out a little longer?

Still 8 days where I'm at...

 

[papagenos]

I feel like I need to focus on something else or this week is gonna drag...but I cant im too hyped!

 

[MBRedboy31]

Just wondering, but, on an ultra technical level, isn’t there only just one fully unique character not cloned from anything else?
Every character I’d assume reuses coding from other characters (such as coding for basic movement, shields, etc) even though they have different stats for each.

 

[Deleted member]

So what your saying is that they should remove Mewtwo.

Well, they got rid of Mewtwo before and got rid of Snake.

....maybe literal clones are at risk.
So no Mewtwo, Snake, or Dark Pit. :V

 

[Blargg888]

Wolf is the type of clone that we all need.

Dark Pit is the kind that we do not.

We want them to play differently, look different, have different standard attacks, and simply be 'inspired by' rather than 'copied from'.

Speak for yourself.
While I do agree that having more diverse and interesting movesets is better in general, having characters like Dark Pit and Lucina isn't bad at all.
There's nothing wrong with having a character that plays slightly different, since they too add something to the roster, even if it's just a little. And they don't take anything away either, so it's not like it's a problem.

I'll agree that DP wasn't done that as well as Lucina and Dr. Mario, who at least had significant differences overall. But in the end, it was still nice to have a slight alternative to Pit. Even if it wasn't all that much.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I don't want to squabble, but you're either wrong or using a bad definition. A clone is a duplicate with some changes. It can be overly near like Doc or relatively distant like Luigi (or very distant like Jiggs). Wolf is not like that, because there is not a singular other thing that he comes from. Because he's a patchwork it doesn't make sense because he's not a clone of someone.
I have nothing against clones, my favorite characters after Falcon are Melee Doc and Ganon, it's not about me be blinded by negative connotations. What it is is that using "clone" in any case of recycling of assets rather than assets meaningfully centered on another particular character is descriptively unhelpful.

Spoiler: Using a ****post example

It's not letting me timestamp, but go to the round that starts at 2:37, you'll get the idea after a few seconds.

Player 1's character, Down, is not a clone. He's a bunch of sprites stitched together from the rest of the cast, like an exaggeration of Wolf. He's not a clone of any of them, though he's made entirely of recycled assets.

I'm going to need you to explain who Jiggs is supposed to be a distant clone of... do you mean Kirby?

 

[Pacack]

Beedle is a recurring Zelda character.

I'm probably going to make some enemies by saying this, but I genuinely think Beedle has a better chance of getting in Smash than any of the champions do.

 

[splat]

I'm going to need you to explain who Jiggs is supposed to be a distant clone of... do you mean Kirby?

Yeah, Jiggs is like the anti-Lucas in that his normals are (used to be?) really similar to the source character, while its specials were changed.

 

[MBRedboy31]

I'm going to need you to explain who Jiggs is supposed to be a distant clone of... do you mean Kirby?

Don’t Kirby and Jigglypuff have some animations directly copy pasted between each other even still in Smash 4? They’re obscure animations like sleeping, stunned, and helpless, IIRC, correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[Kamikazek]

Ive been suspecting that the reason they been doing this with the least ammount of info and leaks is cause they feel like revealing the game outside of a great reveal that manages to make the point across of exactly what kind of deal smash5 is going to hurt the game.

I've been thinking exactly this.

and i honestly suspecting they may do after all a soft reboot.

And the exact opposite of this.

I think they're very warry of how we first see the game because it's a very soft sequel of the last game, basically just an expansion-as-sequel. The advantage to this being that they can have a crazy amount of total content since they're starting with a mostly completed game. But if our first look at the game is just a few characters/stages in what basically looks like Smash 4 that's asking for serious backlash. So what they're trying to do is keep everything completely under wraps and concentrate their effort on a single huge, lengthy reveal (E3) that'll let them just continually hammer people with all the stuff they were able to add by starting from a finished game, and they're hoping that will sell people on the concept, or at least generate so much excitement that the backlash get drowned out.


Your theory sounds just as likely as mine to me though so we'll see. :o

 

[Pacack]

Pacack probably got the list from this website:
http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Best_selling_Nintendo_games#cite_note-wikipedia-8

It says: * This entry uses numbers from VGChartz, so may be questionable

Here is the Kirby one: http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Kirby
Several games like Kirby and the Rainbow Curse don't have sales because their sales are "unknown".

The Yoshi one: http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Yoshi
It has all the games with sales unlike Kirby's page, it also says Yoshi sold 29.17 millions and that's not more than 30 millions like Pacack said.

In summary, Yoshi will be cut in Smash Switch and we will get 10 Kirby newcomers.

That was my mistake on the 30 million thing. I meant to put ~30 million instead, since the Yoshi series is closer to there than 20 million.

 

[osby]

Speak for yourself.
While I do agree that having more diverse and interesting movesets is better in general, having characters like Dark Pit and Lucina isn't bad at all.
There's nothing wrong with having a character that plays slightly different, since they too add something to the roster, even if it's just a little. And they don't take anything away either, so it's not like it's a problem.

I'll agree that DP wasn't done that as well as Lucina and Dr. Mario, who at least had significant differences overall. But in the end, it was still nice to have a slight alternative to Pit. Even if it wasn't all that much.

I still like how his attitude is different from Pit, which isn't nothing, considering how character based Smash is.

Also his Final Smash is easier to use for a Zelda main like me.

 

[Delzethin]

Can I say I'm really not a fan of the "needs to be a roster of all-stars" talk? It always dances precariously on the ledge of gatekeeping characters the poster doesn't like.

Seriously, every damn time it gets brought up, it always devolves into someone saying "X character shouldn't be allowed in because I don't think they're important enough", without a shred of self-awareness for how subjective something like all-star status can be.

 

[Nu~]

"Another 3rd party suggestion? Ehhh...I really think smash was intended to be a roster of Nintendo All-Stars, fam."

Supports Geno and Shantae

 

[ProtoTwi]

"Another 3rd party suggestion? Ehhh...I really think smash was intended to be a roster of Nintendo All-Stars, fam."

Supports Geno and Shantae

Honorary Nintendo characters? lol

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Honorary Nintendo characters? lol

Doesn't work that way.

 

[ProtoTwi]

Doesn't work that way.

I CAN DREAM!!!!!!

 

[osby]

Honorary Nintendo characters? lol

Wè already have Bayonetta and Mega Man.

 

[CodeBlue_]

One Week Left!!!

Time me to increase my studying time so I can relax during E3. I have two finals on Wednesday and Thursday of E3 week, but at least my most concerning one is Monday evening. It's going to be so hard to study on Tuesday

I'm going to make a mock up of my little set up I'm using for the day of E3. This is going to have a lot of memes and hype so I hope you guys enjoy it lol. Going to update my progress over the week. Let's just say Masahiro Sakurai is going to make an appearance

 

[SvartWolf]

Welcome back to another edition of "one castlevania tune per day taken from a totally different game until e3" (this really is a mouthfull)

today i decided to do a double again, mostly cause while technically 2 games, they are really on incomplete and sligthly broken game, and what was supossed to be the final game, im taking of Castevania 64, and Castlevania Legacy of darkness, for you guessed right, the N64.

This is a very divisive game, considering that came after the more acclaimed Symphony of the night, and was doing teh transition from 2d to 3d, a transition that a lot of games didnt did too well.

but besides it shortcomings, the game did managed to create a very interesting and distinctive castle, that in fact felt like a 3d space with tons of vertical rooms, towers and platforms, unlike the ps2 era games that literally plastered the 2d castle maps into a 3d space, and became a lot of hallways, or the lord of shadows games that are mostly arenas with scripted plataforming segments inbetween.

And boy, CV Legacy of Darkness the game was very moody, and atmospheric. there is a ton of nostalgia from my end talking about this game, but other thing that is true, is that the game didnt shy away from experimenting. from very vertical platforming challenges in its diverse towers. to puzzle solving, and zodiac mysteries in places like castle center, or the infamous no jumping puzzle.

Heck there is even a claustrophobic villa infested with npcs, that arent really npcs. and a very scary rose maze. And even the day and night cicles and the store had some very interesting plot mechanics.

that being said, the music of this games breaks a little of the super adventurous and upbeat melodies from the other games in favor of more laid down, atmospheric pieces. and a good example is the mine themes, where Reinhardt descends into the mines plagued with spider monsters and chasms after parting ways with The tragic vampire Rosa.

To the reedition of Bloodlines ""sinking old sanctuary" but with a more orchestral and royal tone to it, which plays in the art tower, a place of such wealth and Taste, that ends as a great facade for a vampire such as Dracula.

While this game usually ends with the short end of the stick, considering that wasnt a success, i really hope i will be able to play it again on a console someday T.T

I had to replace some of the links below, now everything should be working fine.

Spoiler: Previous entries

/SPOILER]

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I really hope that All-Star is changed up in Smash Switch, I really don't want to have to go through and beat 60+ characters in one sitting; it was borderline unbearable in Smash 4 with ~60 characters as it was.

 

[Gameboi834]

Man, these pre-show jitters remind me of Smash 4 anticipation. Remember that, Swamp Sensei ?

 

[osby]

I really hope that All-Star is changed up in Smash Switch, I really don't want to have to go through and beat 60+ characters in on sitting; it was borderline unbearable in Smash 4 with ~60 characters as it was.

They'll give us one more Heart Container and call it a day.