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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


Results are only viewable after voting.
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Radical Bones

Soul King
Joined
Sep 23, 2013
Messages
6,035
Location
Down Under
Switch FC
SW-3027-1027-5433
Since the topic came up, I thought I should do some digging.

Nintendo Franchises by Sales:
S+::4mario:(Sales > 625 Million)
S: :4pikachu: (Sales > 300 Million)
S-: :4mii: (Sales > 200 Million)
AAA: :4link: (Sales > 100 Million)
AA: :4wiifit::4dk: (Sales >50 Million)
A+: :4gaw::4kirby:, Smash Bros. (Sales > 35 Million)
A: :4villager::4yoshi:(Sales > 30 Million)
A-: :4duckhunt::4wario2:, Nintendogs (Sales > 20 Million)
B+: :4samus:(Sales > 15 Million)
B: :4fox::4marth::4luigi:, Splatoon (Sales >10 Million)
B-: :4falcon::4olimar:, Excite, Nintendo Land (Sales ~ 5 Million)
C: :4littlemac:(Sales ~ 3-5 Million)
D: :4pit: (Sales ~ 3 Million)
E: :4shulk: (Sales ~ 1.9 Million)
It'd be interesting to see this as an average per series rather than total sales.
 

TheLastJinjo

Banned via Warnings
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
9,220
Location
Luigi
(This is a post from last month, but the roster was changed through edits: https://smashboards.com/threads/sup...-to-e3-countdown-to-e3-e3-e3.434391/page-1083

I did not edit it to include Ridley and Simon because of the alleged leak claiming that they will be shown off at E3. I've had several past rosters predicting Simon Belmont https://smashboards.com/threads/sup...d-to-e3-countdown-to-e3-e3-e3.434391/page-864, and this roster was edited to include Ridley prior to the "leak", but I edited in other adjustments to the roster after. Ridley is in this roster because I speculated he may be added in this installment and shown off at E3 2018 in response to his internet following that has been strong across five games: https://smashboards.com/threads/super-smash-bros-for-switch-discussion-road-to-e3-countdown-to-e3-e3-e3.434391/page-1113#post-2206185)
Super Smash Bros Roster Order3.png

75 Character Roster (Plus 3 Mii Fighters). As Super Smash Bros for Nintendo Switch will likely reuse source material and assets that were already created for the Wii U installment, all the characters from the last game return here.

Since this is a 78 Character Roster, you could probably add Wolf and Snake and make it 80. I wouldn't be surprised if this installment of Super Smash Bros seeks to revive past veterans, but I'm not certain if they will be included in the base roster, so I only brought back Ice Climbers and Pichu.
Mario (Debut: 1981)
  • Donkey Kong (Arcade)
  • Super Mario Bros. (NES)
  • Super Mario 64 (N64)
Luigi (Debut: 1983)
  • Mario Bros. (Arcade)
  • Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels (Japan Only)
  • Luigi's Mansion (3DS)
Princess Peach (Debut: 1985)
  • Super Mario Bros. (NES)
  • Super Mario Bros. 2 (NES)
  • Super Princess Peach (DS)
Bowser (Debut: 1985)
  • Super Mario Bros. (NES)
  • Mario Party (N64)
  • Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story + Bowser Jr.'s Journey (3DS)
Bowser Jr. (Debut: 2002)
  • Super Mario Sunshine (GCN)
  • New Super Mario Bros. U (Wii U)
  • Mario + Rabbids: Kingdom Battle (NS)
The Koopalings (Debut: 1988)
  • Super Mario Bros. 3 (NES)
  • Super Mario World (SNES)
  • New Super Mario Bros. Wii (Wii)
Rosalina & Luma (Debut: 2007)
  • Super Mario Galaxy (Wii)
  • Mario Kart Wii (Wii)
  • Super Mario 3D World (Wii U)
Yoshi (Debut: 1990)
  • Super Mario World (SNES)
  • Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island (SNES)
  • Yoshi's Story (N64)
Dr. Mario (Debut: 1990)
  • Dr. Mario (NES)
  • Dr. Mario Online RX (Wii)
  • Dr. Mario: Miracle Cure (3DS)
Pauline (Debut: 1981)
  • Donkey Kong (Arcade)
  • Mario VS Donkey Kong: Tipping Stars (Wii U)
  • Super Mario Odyssey (NS)
Donkey Kong (Debut: 1981)
  • Donkey Kong (Arcade)
  • Mario Kart 64 (N64)
  • Donkey Kong Country: Returns (Wii)
Diddy Kong (Debut: 1994)
  • Donkey Kong Country (SNES)
  • Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest (SNES)
  • Diddy Kong Racing (N64)
Cranky Kong (Debut: 1994)
  • Donkey Kong Country (SNES)
  • Donkey Kong 64 (N64)
  • Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze (NS)
Wario (Debut: 1992)
  • Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins (GB)
  • Wario Land 3 (GBC)
  • WarioWare Gold (3DS)
Link (Debut: 1986)
  • The Legend of Zelda (NES)
  • Zelda II: The Adventure of Link (NES)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Breath of The Wild (NS)
Princess Zelda (Debut: 1986)
  • The Legend of Zelda (NES)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (N64)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Breath of The Wild (NS)
Sheik (Debut: 1998)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (N64)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D (3DS)
  • Hyrule Warriors: Definitive Edition (NS)
Ganondorf (Debut: 1998)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (N64)
  • The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (GCN)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (Wii)
Toon Link (Debut: 2002)
  • The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (GCN)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass (DS)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks (DS)
Toon Zelda (Debut: 2002)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords (GBA)
  • The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (GCN)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks (DS)
Tetra (Debut: 2002)
  • The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (GCN)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass (DS)
  • The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker HD (Wii U)
Impa (Debut: 1986)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (N64)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword (Wii)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Breath of The Wild (NS)
Samus Aran (Debut: 1986)
  • Metroid (NES)
  • Super Metroid (SNES)
  • Metroid Prime 4 (NS)
Ridley (Debut: 1986)
  • Metroid (NES)
  • Super Metroid (SNES)
  • Metroid: Samus Returns (3DS)
Zero Suit Samus (Debut: 2004)
  • Metroid: Zero Mission (GBA)
  • Metroid: Other M (Wii)
  • Metroid: Samus Returns (3DS)
Captain Falcon (Debut: 1990)
  • F-Zero (SNES)
  • F-Zero X (N64)
  • F-Zero GX (GCN)
Ninten (Debut: 1989)
  • EarthBound Beginnings (Japan Only)
Ness (Debut: 1994)
  • EarthBound (SNES)
  • Super Smash Bros. (N64)
Lucas (Debut: 2006)
  • Mother 3 (Japan Only)
  • Super Smash Bros. Brawl (Wii)
Kirby (Debut: 1992)
  • Kirby's Dream Land (GB)
  • Kirby Superstar (SNES)
  • Kirby Star Allies (NS)
King Dedede (Debut 1992)
  • Kirby's Dream Land (GB)
  • Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards (N64)
  • Kirby's Return to Dreamland (Wii)
Meta Knight (Debut: 1993)
  • Kirby's Adventure (NES)
  • Kirby Superstar (SNES)
  • Kirby Superstar Ultra (DS)
Fox McCloud (Debut: 1993)
  • Star Fox (SNES)
  • Star Fox 64 (N64)
  • Star Fox Zero (Wii U)
Falco Lombardi (Debut: 1993)
  • Star Fox (SNES)
  • Star Fox 64 (N64)
  • Star Fox Zero (Wii U)
Pikachu (Debut: 1996)
  • Pokemon Yellow: Special Pikachu Edition (GB)
  • Hey You, Pikachu! (N64)
  • Pokemon Let's Go, Pikachu! (NS)
Jigglypuff (Debut: 1996)
  • Pokemon Red/Pokemon Blue (GB)
  • Pokemon X/Pokemon Y (3DS)
  • Pokemon Sun/Pokemon Moon (3DS)
Mewtwo (Debut: 1996)
  • Pokemon Red/Pokemon Blue (GB)
  • Pokemon Stadium (N64)
  • Pokemon X/Pokemon Y (3DS)
Charizard (Debut: 1996)
  • Pokemon Red/Pokemon Blue (GB)
  • Pokemeon Fire Red/Pokemon Leaf Green (GBA)
  • Pokemon X/Pokemon Y (3DS)
Lucario (Debut: 2006)
  • Pokemon Diamond/Pokemon Pearl (DS)
  • Pokemon X/Pokemon Y (3DS)
  • Pokken Tournament DX (NS)
Greninja (Debut: 2013)
  • Pokemon X/Pokemon Y (3DS)
  • Pokemon Battle Trozei (3DS)
  • Pokemon Sun/Pokemon Moon (3DS)
Mimikyu (Debut: 2016)
  • Pokemon Sun/Pokemon Moon (3DS)
  • Pokemon Ultra Sun/Pokemon Ultra Moon (3DS)
  • Pokken Tournament DX (NS)
Pichu (Debut: 1999)
  • Pokemon Gold/Pokemon Silver (GBC)
  • Pokemon Stadium 2 (N64)
  • Pokemon Sun/Pokemon Moon (3DS)
Pit (Debut: 1986)
  • Kid Icarus (NES)
  • Kid Icarus: Of Myths and Monsters (GB)
  • Kid Icarus: Uprising (3DS)
Palutena (Debut: 1986)
  • Kid Icarus (NES)
  • Kid Icarus: Of Myths and Monsters (GB)
  • Kid Icarus: Uprising (3DS)
Dark Pit (Debut: 2012)
  • Kid Icarus: Uprising (3DS)
Marth (Debut: 1990)
  • Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon & The Blade of Light (Japan Only)
  • Fire Emblem: Mystery of The Emblem (Japan Only)
  • Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon (DS)
Celica (Debut: 1992)
  • Fire Emblem Gaiden (Japan Only)
  • Fire Emblem Ehoes: Shadows of Valentia (3DS)
  • Fire Emblem Warriors (NS)
Leif (Debut: 1996)
  • Fire Emblem: Genealogy of The Holy War (Japan Only)
  • Fire Emblem: Thracia 776 (Japan Only)
Roy (Debut: 2001)
  • Super Smash Bros. Melee (GCN)
  • Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade (Japan Only)
Ike (Debut: 2005)
  • Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance (GCN)
  • Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn (Wii)
Robin (Debut: 2012)
  • Fire Emblem Awakening (3DS)
  • Fire Emblem Warriors (NS)
Corrin (Debut: 2015)
  • Fire Emblem Fates (3DS)
  • Fire Emblem Warriors (NS)
Lucina (Debut: 2012)
  • Fire Emblem Awakening (3DS)
  • Fire Emblem Warriors (NS)
  • Project X Zone 2 (3DS)
Olimar (Debut: 2001)
  • Pikmin (GCN)
  • Pikmin 2 (GCN)
  • Hey! Pikmin (3DS)
Alph (Debut: 2013)
  • Pikmin 3 (Wii U)
Villager (Debut: 2001)
  • Dobutsu No Mori (Japan Only)
  • Animal Crossing: City Folk (Wii)
  • Animal Crossing: New Leaf (3DS)
Little Mac (Debut: 1984)
  • Punch-Out!! (Arcade)
  • Super Punch-Out!! (SNES)
  • Punch-Out!! (Wii)
Rex & Pyra (Debut: 2017)
  • Xenoblade Chronicles 2 (NS)
Shulk (Debut: 2010)
  • Xenoblade Chronicles (Wii)
  • Xenoblade Chronicles 3D (3DS)
Inkling (Debut: 2015)
  • Splatoon (Wii U)
  • Splatoon 2 (NS)
  • Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (NS)
Spring Man (Debut: 2017)
  • Arms (NS)
Ribbon Girl (Debut: 2017)
  • Arms (NS)
Rhythm Troupe (Debut: 2006)
  • Rhythm Tengoku (Japan Only)
  • Rhythm Heaven (DS)
  • Rhythm Heaven Megamix (3DS)
Excitebike (Debut: 1984)
  • Excitebike (NES)
  • Excitebike 64 (N64)
  • Excitebike: World Rally (Wii)
Lip (Debut: 1995)
  • Panel De Pon (Japan Only)
  • Panel De Pon DS (Japan Only)
Popo & Nana (Debut: 1985)
  • Ice Climber (NES)
Duck Hunt (Debut: 1984)
  • Duck Hunt (NES)
R.O.B. (Debut: 1985)
  • Gyromite (NES)
  • Stack-Up (NES)
  • Mario Kart DS (DS)
Mr. Game & Watch (Debut: 1980)
  • Ball (G&W)
  • Game & Watch Gallery (GB)
  • Game & Watch Collection (DS)
Sonic The Hedgehog (Debut: 1991)
  • Sonic The Hedgehog
  • Sonic Adventure DX: Director's Cut (GCN)
  • Sonic Mania (NS)
Mega Man (Debut: 1987)
  • Mega Man (NES)
  • Mega Man 2 (SNES)
  • Mega Man 11 (NS)
Bomberman (Debut: 1983)
  • Bomberman (NES)
  • Bomberman Hero (N64)
  • Super Bomberman R (NS)
Pac-Man (Debut: 1980)
  • Pac-Man (Arcade)
  • Pac-Man World (GBA)
  • Pac-Man Champion Edition 2 (NS)
Simon Belmont (Debut: 1986)
  • Castlevania (NES)
  • Castlevania II: Simon's Quest (NES)
  • Super Castlevania IV (SNES)
Ryu (Debut: 1987)
  • Street Fighter (Arcade)
  • Super Street Fighter II (SNES)
  • Street Fighter 30th Anniversary Collection (NS)
Cloud Strife (Debut: 1997)
  • Final Fantasy VII
Bayonetta (Debut: 2009)
  • Bayonetta (NS)
  • Bayonetta 2 (NS)
  • Bayonetta 3 (NS)
Sheriff (Debut: 1979)
  • Sheriff (Arcade)

Unlockable Characters (12)
  • Dr. Mario
  • Pichu
  • Dark Pit
  • Lucina
  • Impa
  • Ribbon Girl
  • Lip
  • R.O.B.
  • Duck Hunt
  • Mr. Game & Watch
  • Sheriff
  • Mii Fighters
Costume Characters (18)
  • Bowser Jr./The Koopalings
  • Ness/Ninten
  • Marth/Leif
  • Olimar/Alph
  • Bomberman/Bomberman Bros.

  • Peach, Dr. Mario, and Paper Mario have their own unique victory themes
  • Link's design is updated. Hookshot is replaced with the Rune Magnet, Arrow is replaced with Ancient Arrow, Gale Boomerang is replaced with Boomerang, Bomb is replaced with Rune Bomb, and stage entrance is now Warp Travel.
  • Zelda's design is updated. Down Special allows her to channel her energy.
  • Sheik's design is updated.
  • Ganondorf's design is updated with Ancient Armor and many new abilities.
  • Samus's design is updated.
  • Kirby has some new specials and Final Smash is now Mike Kirby.
  • Fox, Falco, and Wolf's designs are updated. Final Smash is Arwing Walker. Hunter for Wolf.
  • Olimar no longer uses White Pikmin and Purple Pikmin, but instead Winged Pikmin and Rock Pikmin. His Up Special is now the jet pack from "Hey! Pikmin". The ship is from "Hey! Pikmin" as well. Alph now has voice clips.
  • Villager's design is updated.

Cranky Kong: Cranky Kong is kind of like the Palutena of the Donkey Kong series. With the exception of the Donkey Kong Land games on Gameboy, there exists no Donkey Kong Country game where Cranky Kong does not share a plentiful amount of screen time where he makes himself known. If there's a third most important/recurring Kong, it's Cranky. I also believe he is the most unique one with his scientific knowledge, potions, and cane.

Pauline: Pauline is one of the original cast members of Donkey Kong and she's become very popular in recent years, especially with Super Mario Odyssey. She's probably not all that likely because Super Mario Odyssey was late 2017, but I kept her because she has her other merits. Her unique ability is her parasol and her love of music.

Toon Zelda & Tetra: I believe these two are the most popular Zelda characters and they are definitely the most important given their recurrence in major roles in Zelda games. Especially recent ones like Wind Waker HD and Hyrule Warriors. I believe Toon Zelda is definitely one of the most creative newcomers on this roster because of her ability to shed her phantom armor and become her spirit form. I don't consider it redundant that they are of the Zelda bloodline. They are both completely different characters and all of the most important characters of the Zelda series are Link, Zelda, and Ganon.



Ridley: I've been considering Ridley only because I believe this particular installment is going to aim to satisfy fan requests that have been consistent throughout the series. My stance on Ridley as a playable character has always been the same as Sakurai, but he's been known to change his mind and try as hard as possible to make things work.

My concept for Ridley is inspired by his appearance in Super Metroid where he has long limbs, but they are hunched together.

Ridley can extend his wings, neck, and tail when attacking. He also has a unique forward throw where he drags his opponent across the ground and a unique down aerial where uses the baby metroid capsule as a weapon.


Mimikyu: Mimikyu is clearly the most popular and promoted Pokemon of Sun & Moon. His role in the anime is extremely significant as he is a part of Team Rocket since the series began and he continues to appear. He was also one of the more significant Totem Pokemon in the game.


Celica: Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia is the most recent Fire Emblem game. Because of this remake, Celica is now one of the few characters to have multiple games where she is a main protagonist along with Marth & Ike. I chose her over Alm because she is more unique as a preistess and she appeared in Fire Emblem Warriors. And the fact that Fire Emblem Gaiden is such an old game, makes her popular with both new and old fans of the series.


Excitebike: The Excite series is one of Nintendo's most successful series. It is also the ninth best selling Famicom game and one of the launch titles of the system. Excitebike's unique ability is that his specials do MASSIVE damage, but as a result of using them, his bike overheats. This is demonstrated by the meter next to his character icon during battle.
View attachment 143761

Impa: Impa is another popular request. I originally had her as a costume of Sheik as they are both Sheikah and share a similar body structure, but instead she appears as a taller and more muscular clone of Sheik. As a result of being buffer, she's not as agile. She uses Giant's Knife as her Final Smash, which functions identical to Cloud's Final Smash.

I didn't have a picture of it, but Impa appears as a younger version of herself from Breath of The Wild.


Lip: Lip appears as a represenative of puzzle games. She can summon blocks from Panel De Pon and Tetris. Using blocks to perform chain attacks are a huge part of her fight style and Lip's stick works almost as well as it did as an item. It will return to the form of a bud when used to often, until eventually it blossoms back into a flower.

The more combos she performs with her chain attacks, the more garbage blocks she can store up before releasing her wrath upon her opponents. Her garbage blocks are massively powerful and cover lots of range. They are devastating when used as a meteor smash.
View attachment 145998

Sheriff: Sheriff appears as a legacy character as he is the oldest Nintendo character of all. I'm aware his game was a flop, but I think with a shortage of easy pickings, he is going to appear as a new criteria of newcomer. In Melee, there was a desire to have a true Famicom representative. I believe this time there will be a true arcade representative, someone who has only appeared in an arcade game and didn't have a sequel, similar to how Ice Climbers only appeared in a Famicom game and did not have a sequel. I believe this is the installment where the timing is perfect for Sheriff's inclusion.

Sheriff's unique ability is that he has eight directional attacks instead of four. All of his tilt attacks fire his pistol in a different direction. His neutral special is a charge shot. Again, he can use this to fire in one of eight directions, but the shot is more powerful and it suspends him in midair for a breif moment. He uses a whip in his smash attacks, similar to Kirby's cowboy transformation. His Up Special is Condor, his side special is Bandido, and his Down Special is Barrier (He hides and shoots behind the wooden post that has numbers on them).

I have a concept for the stage as well. It takes place inside the Sheriff Arcade Cabinet and the border around the screen can be seen. It's basically like the popular "Box" Custom Stage. Opponents cannot be KO'd until the dots around the screen are broken open.


Bomberman: Bomberman is probably the most requested third party character. The amount of Bomberman games is enormous and a lot of them are Nintendo exclusives. His alternate pallet swaps are the Bomberman Brothers from Super Bomberman R.


Simon: After Street Fighter and Final Fantasy getting characters, I believe Castlevania is the next big third party IP to have in Super Smash Bros. This series too has a history with Nintendo on the Famicom & Super Famicom.


Spring Man & Ribbon Girl: Here's the thing, I don't think Spring Man is likely, but I think it's possible he may become a late addition like Sonic because of his requests and the success of Arms on Nintendo Switch. But, I seriously doubt he was included in the original roster when the game started development.
 
Last edited:

Idon

Smash Legend
Joined
May 24, 2018
Messages
17,624
Location
Waxing Moon Ritual
NNID
Miyamoto Iori
Switch FC
SW-4826-9581-3305
What's so silly about Mipha? Honestly she has the best shot out of any Zelda character. Impa's been passed over for a reason and no one likes Tingle (but if you ask me I love him). The rest are one-offs. With Mipha her game is still recent, she's a Zora so she's a long stay species in Zelda and she'd be recognizable, and she uses a trident (not in Smash, unique play style) and has healing abilities to boot. She'd be VERY unique.
You're contradicting yourself when you say that the rest are one-offs when Mipha herself is a one-off character. A mainstay "species" doesn't mean much when every other one-off character is also a mainstay species as well.
 

MoonlitIllusion

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 11, 2018
Messages
2,677
Location
England
(This is a post from last month, but the roster was changed through edits: https://smashboards.com/threads/sup...-to-e3-countdown-to-e3-e3-e3.434391/page-1083

I did not edit it to include Ridley and Simon because of the alleged leak claiming that they will be shown off at E3. I've had several past rosters predicting Simon Belmont https://smashboards.com/threads/sup...d-to-e3-countdown-to-e3-e3-e3.434391/page-864, and this roster was edited to include Ridley prior to the "leak", but I edited in other adjustments to the roster after. Ridley is in this roster because I speculated he may be added in this installment and shown off at E3 2018 in response to his internet following that has been strong across five games: https://smashboards.com/threads/super-smash-bros-for-switch-discussion-road-to-e3-countdown-to-e3-e3-e3.434391/page-1113#post-2206185)

75 Character Roster (Plus 3 Mii Fighters). As Super Smash Bros for Nintendo Switch will likely reuse source material and assets that were already created for the Wii U installment, all the characters from the last game return here.
View attachment 146148
Since this is a 78 Character Roster, you could probably add Wolf and Snake and make it 80. I wouldn't be surprised if this installment of Super Smash Bros seeks to revive past veterans, but I'm not certain if they will be included in the base roster, so I only brought back Ice Climbers and Pichu.
Mario (Debut: 1981)
  • Donkey Kong (Arcade)
  • Super Mario Bros. (NES)
  • Super Mario 64 (N64)
Luigi (Debut: 1983)
  • Mario Bros. (Arcade)
  • Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels (Japan Only)
  • Luigi's Mansion (3DS)
Princess Peach (Debut: 1985)
  • Super Mario Bros. (NES)
  • Super Mario Bros. 2 (NES)
  • Super Princess Peach (DS)
Bowser (Debut: 1985)
  • Super Mario Bros. (NES)
  • Mario Party (N64)
  • Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story + Bowser Jr.'s Journey (3DS)
Bowser Jr. (Debut: 2002)
  • Super Mario Sunshine (GCN)
  • New Super Mario Bros. U (Wii U)
  • Mario + Rabbids: Kingdom Battle (NS)
The Koopalings (Debut: 1988)
  • Super Mario Bros. 3 (NES)
  • Super Mario World (SNES)
  • New Super Mario Bros. Wii (Wii)
Rosalina & Luma (Debut: 2007)
  • Super Mario Galaxy (Wii)
  • Mario Kart Wii (Wii)
  • Super Mario 3D World (Wii U)
Yoshi (Debut: 1990)
  • Super Mario World (SNES)
  • Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island (SNES)
  • Yoshi's Story (N64)
Dr. Mario (Debut: 1990)
  • Dr. Mario (NES)
  • Dr. Mario Online RX (Wii)
  • Dr. Mario: Miracle Cure (3DS)
Pauline (Debut: 1981)
  • Donkey Kong (Arcade)
  • Mario VS Donkey Kong: Tipping Stars (Wii U)
  • Super Mario Odyssey (NS)
Donkey Kong (Debut: 1981)
  • Donkey Kong (Arcade)
  • Mario Kart 64 (N64)
  • Donkey Kong Country: Returns (Wii)
Diddy Kong (Debut: 1994)
  • Donkey Kong Country (SNES)
  • Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest (SNES)
  • Diddy Kong Racing (N64)
Cranky Kong (Debut: 1994)
  • Donkey Kong Country (SNES)
  • Donkey Kong 64 (N64)
  • Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze (NS)
Wario (Debut: 1992)
  • Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins (GB)
  • Wario Land 3 (GBC)
  • WarioWare Gold (3DS)
Link (Debut: 1986)
  • The Legend of Zelda (NES)
  • Zelda II: The Adventure of Link (NES)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Breath of The Wild (NS)
Princess Zelda (Debut: 1986)
  • The Legend of Zelda (NES)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (N64)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Breath of The Wild (NS)
Sheik (Debut: 1998)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (N64)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D (3DS)
  • Hyrule Warriors: Definitive Edition (NS)
Ganondorf (Debut: 1998)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (N64)
  • The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (GCN)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (Wii)
Toon Link (Debut: 2002)
  • The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (GCN)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass (DS)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks (DS)
Toon Zelda (Debut: 2002)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords (GBA)
  • The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (GCN)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks (DS)
Tetra (Debut: 2002)
  • The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (GCN)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass (DS)
  • The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker HD (Wii U)
Impa (Debut: 1986)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (N64)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword (Wii)
  • The Legend of Zelda: Breath of The Wild (NS)
Samus Aran (Debut: 1986)
  • Metroid (NES)
  • Super Metroid (SNES)
  • Metroid Prime 4 (NS)
Ridley (Debut: 1986)
  • Metroid (NES)
  • Super Metroid (SNES)
  • Metroid: Samus Returns (3DS)
Zero Suit Samus (Debut: 2004)
  • Metroid: Zero Mission (GBA)
  • Metroid: Other M (Wii)
  • Metroid: Samus Returns (3DS)
Captain Falcon (Debut: 1990)
  • F-Zero (SNES)
  • F-Zero X (N64)
  • F-Zero GX (GCN)
Ninten (Debut: 1989)
  • EarthBound Beginnings (Japan Only)
Ness (Debut: 1994)
  • EarthBound (SNES)
  • Super Smash Bros. (N64)
Lucas (Debut: 2006)
  • Mother 3 (Japan Only)
  • Super Smash Bros. Brawl (Wii)
Kirby (Debut: 1992)
  • Kirby's Dream Land (GB)
  • Kirby Superstar (SNES)
  • Kirby Star Allies (NS)
King Dedede (Debut 1992)
  • Kirby's Dream Land (GB)
  • Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards (N64)
  • Kirby's Return to Dreamland (Wii)
Meta Knight (Debut: 1993)
  • Kirby's Adventure (NES)
  • Kirby Superstar (SNES)
  • Kirby Superstar Ultra (DS)
Fox McCloud (Debut: 1993)
  • Star Fox (SNES)
  • Star Fox 64 (N64)
  • Star Fox Zero (Wii U)
Falco Lombardi (Debut: 1993)
  • Star Fox (SNES)
  • Star Fox 64 (N64)
  • Star Fox Zero (Wii U)
Pikachu (Debut: 1996)
  • Pokemon Yellow: Special Pikachu Edition (GB)
  • Hey You, Pikachu! (N64)
  • Pokemon Let's Go, Pikachu! (NS)
Jigglypuff (Debut: 1996)
  • Pokemon Red/Pokemon Blue (GB)
  • Pokemon X/Pokemon Y (3DS)
  • Pokemon Sun/Pokemon Moon (3DS)
Mewtwo (Debut: 1996)
  • Pokemon Red/Pokemon Blue (GB)
  • Pokemon Stadium (N64)
  • Pokemon X/Pokemon Y (3DS)
Charizard (Debut: 1996)
  • Pokemon Red/Pokemon Blue (GB)
  • Pokemeon Fire Red/Pokemon Leaf Green (GBA)
  • Pokemon X/Pokemon Y (3DS)
Lucario (Debut: 2006)
  • Pokemon Diamond/Pokemon Pearl (DS)
  • Pokemon X/Pokemon Y (3DS)
  • Pokken Tournament DX (NS)
Greninja (Debut: 2013)
  • Pokemon X/Pokemon Y (3DS)
  • Pokemon Battle Trozei (3DS)
  • Pokemon Sun/Pokemon Moon (3DS)
Mimikyu (Debut: 2016)
  • Pokemon Sun/Pokemon Moon (3DS)
  • Pokemon Ultra Sun/Pokemon Ultra Moon (3DS)
  • Pokken Tournament DX (NS)
Pichu (Debut: 1999)
  • Pokemon Gold/Pokemon Silver (GBC)
  • Pokemon Stadium 2 (N64)
  • Pokemon Sun/Pokemon Moon (3DS)
Pit (Debut: 1986)
  • Kid Icarus (NES)
  • Kid Icarus: Of Myths and Monsters (GB)
  • Kid Icarus: Uprising (3DS)
Palutena (Debut: 1986)
  • Kid Icarus (NES)
  • Kid Icarus: Of Myths and Monsters (GB)
  • Kid Icarus: Uprising (3DS)
Dark Pit (Debut: 2012)
  • Kid Icarus: Uprising (3DS)
Marth (Debut: 1990)
  • Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon & The Blade of Light (Japan Only)
  • Fire Emblem: Mystery of The Emblem (Japan Only)
  • Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon (DS)
Celica (Debut: 1992)
  • Fire Emblem Gaiden (Japan Only)
  • Fire Emblem Ehoes: Shadows of Valentia (3DS)
  • Fire Emblem Warriors (NS)
Leif (Debut: 1996)
  • Fire Emblem: Genealogy of The Holy War (Japan Only)
  • Fire Emblem: Thracia 776 (Japan Only)
Roy (Debut: 2001)
  • Super Smash Bros. Melee (GCN)
  • Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade (Japan Only)
Ike (Debut: 2005)
  • Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance (GCN)
  • Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn (Wii)
Robin (Debut: 2012)
  • Fire Emblem Awakening (3DS)
  • Fire Emblem Warriors (NS)
Corrin (Debut: 2015)
  • Fire Emblem Fates (3DS)
  • Fire Emblem Warriors (NS)
Lucina (Debut: 2012)
  • Fire Emblem Awakening (3DS)
  • Fire Emblem Warriors (NS)
  • Project X Zone 2 (3DS)
Olimar (Debut: 2001)
  • Pikmin (GCN)
  • Pikmin 2 (GCN)
  • Hey! Pikmin (3DS)
Alph (Debut: 2013)
  • Pikmin 3 (Wii U)
Villager (Debut: 2001)
  • Dobutsu No Mori (Japan Only)
  • Animal Crossing: City Folk (Wii)
  • Animal Crossing: New Leaf (3DS)
Little Mac (Debut: 1984)
  • Punch-Out!! (Arcade)
  • Super Punch-Out!! (SNES)
  • Punch-Out!! (Wii)
Rex & Pyra (Debut: 2017)
  • Xenoblade Chronicles 2 (NS)
Shulk (Debut: 2010)
  • Xenoblade Chronicles (Wii)
  • Xenoblade Chronicles 3D (3DS)
Inkling (Debut: 2015)
  • Splatoon (Wii U)
  • Splatoon 2 (NS)
  • Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (NS)
Spring Man (Debut: 2017)
  • Arms (NS)
Ribbon Girl (Debut: 2017)
  • Arms (NS)
Rhythm Troupe (Debut: 2006)
  • Rhythm Tengoku (Japan Only)
  • Rhythm Heaven (DS)
  • Rhythm Heaven Megamix (3DS)
Excitebike (Debut: 1984)
  • Excitebike (NES)
  • Excitebike 64 (N64)
  • Excitebike: World Rally (Wii)
Lip (Debut: 1995)
  • Panel De Pon (Japan Only)
  • Panel De Pon DS (Japan Only)
Popo & Nana (Debut: 1985)
  • Ice Climber (NES)
Duck Hunt (Debut: 1984)
  • Duck Hunt (NES)
R.O.B. (Debut: 1985)
  • Gyromite (NES)
  • Stack-Up (NES)
  • Mario Kart DS (DS)
Mr. Game & Watch (Debut: 1980)
  • Ball (G&W)
  • Game & Watch Gallery (GB)
  • Game & Watch Collection (DS)
Sonic The Hedgehog (Debut: 1991)
  • Sonic The Hedgehog
  • Sonic Adventure DX: Director's Cut (GCN)
  • Sonic Mania (NS)
Mega Man (Debut: 1987)
  • Mega Man (NES)
  • Mega Man 2 (SNES)
  • Mega Man 11 (NS)
Bomberman (Debut: 1983)
  • Bomberman (NES)
  • Bomberman Hero (N64)
  • Super Bomberman R (NS)
Pac-Man (Debut: 1980)
  • Pac-Man (Arcade)
  • Pac-Man World (GBA)
  • Pac-Man Champion Edition 2 (NS)
Simon Belmont (Debut: 1986)
  • Castlevania (NES)
  • Castlevania II: Simon's Quest (NES)
  • Super Castlevania IV (SNES)
Ryu (Debut: 1987)
  • Street Fighter (Arcade)
  • Super Street Fighter II (SNES)
  • Street Fighter 30th Anniversary Collection (NS)
Cloud Strife (Debut: 1997)
  • Final Fantasy VII
Bayonetta (Debut: 2009)
  • Bayonetta (NS)
  • Bayonetta 2 (NS)
  • Bayonetta 3 (NS)
Sheriff (Debut: 1979)
  • Sheriff (Arcade)

Unlockable Characters (12)
  • Dr. Mario
  • Pichu
  • Dark Pit
  • Lucina
  • Impa
  • Ribbon Girl
  • Lip
  • R.O.B.
  • Duck Hunt
  • Mr. Game & Watch
  • Sheriff
  • Mii Fighters
Costume Characters (18)
  • Bowser Jr./The Koopalings
  • Ness/Ninten
  • Marth/Leif
  • Olimar/Alph
  • Bomberman/Bomberman Bros.

  • Peach, Dr. Mario, and Paper Mario have their own unique victory themes
  • Link's design is updated. Hookshot is replaced with the Rune Magnet, Arrow is replaced with Ancient Arrow, Gale Boomerang is replaced with Boomerang, Bomb is replaced with Rune Bomb, and stage entrance is now Warp Travel.
  • Zelda's design is updated. Down Special allows her to channel her energy.
  • Sheik's design is updated.
  • Ganondorf's design is updated with Ancient Armor and many new abilities.
  • Samus's design is updated.
  • Kirby has some new specials and Final Smash is now Mike Kirby.
  • Fox, Falco, and Wolf's designs are updated. Final Smash is Arwing Walker. Hunter for Wolf.
  • Olimar no longer uses White Pikmin and Purple Pikmin, but instead Winged Pikmin and Rock Pikmin. His Up Special is now the jet pack from "Hey! Pikmin". The ship is from "Hey! Pikmin" as well. Alph now has voice clips.
  • Villager's design is updated.

Cranky Kong: Cranky Kong is kind of like the Palutena of the Donkey Kong series. With the exception of the Donkey Kong Land games on Gameboy, there exists no Donkey Kong Country game where Cranky Kong does not share a plentiful amount of screen time where he makes himself known. If there's a third most important/recurring Kong, it's Cranky. I also believe he is the most unique one with his scientific knowledge, potions, and cane.

Pauline: Pauline is one of the original cast members of Donkey Kong and she's become very popular in recent years, especially with Super Mario Odyssey. She's probably not all that likely because Super Mario Odyssey was late 2017, but I kept her because she has her other merits. Her unique ability is her parasol and her love of music.

Toon Zelda & Tetra: I believe these two are the most popular Zelda characters and they are definitely the most important given their recurrence in major roles in Zelda games. Especially recent ones like Wind Waker HD and Hyrule Warriors. I believe Toon Zelda is definitely one of the most creative newcomers on this roster because of her ability to shed her phantom armor and become her spirit form. I don't consider it redundant that they are of the Zelda bloodline. They are both completely different characters and all of the most important characters of the Zelda series are Link, Zelda, and Ganon.



Ridley: I've been considering Ridley only because I believe this particular installment is going to aim to satisfy fan requests that have been consistent throughout the series. My stance on Ridley as a playable character has always been the same as Sakurai, but he's been known to change his mind and try as hard as possible to make things work.

My concept for Ridley is inspired by his appearance in Super Metroid where he has long limbs, but they are hunched together.

Ridley can extend his wings, neck, and tail when attacking. He also has a unique forward throw where he drags his opponent across the ground and a unique down aerial where uses the baby metroid capsule as a weapon.


Mimikyu: Mimikyu is clearly the most popular and promoted Pokemon of Sun & Moon. His role in the anime is extremely significant as he is a part of Team Rocket since the series began and he continues to appear. He was also one of the more significant Totem Pokemon in the game.


Celica: Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia is the most recent Fire Emblem game. Because of this remake, Celica is now one of the few characters to have multiple games where she is a main protagonist along with Marth & Ike. I chose her over Alm because she is more unique as a preistess and she appeared in Fire Emblem Warriors. And the fact that Fire Emblem Gaiden is such an old game, makes her popular with both new and old fans of the series.


Excitebike: The Excite series is one of Nintendo's most successful series. It is also the ninth best selling Famicom game and one of the launch titles of the system. Excitebike's unique ability is that his specials do MASSIVE damage, but as a result of using them, his bike overheats. This is demonstrated by the meter next to his character icon during battle.
View attachment 143761

Impa: Impa is another popular request. I originally had her as a costume of Sheik as they are both Sheikah and share a similar body structure, but instead she appears as a taller and more muscular clone of Sheik. As a result of being buffer, she's not as agile. She uses Giant's Knife as her Final Smash, which functions identical to Cloud's Final Smash.

I didn't have a picture of it, but Impa appears as a younger version of herself from Breath of The Wild.


Lip: Lip appears as a represenative of puzzle games. She can summon blocks from Panel De Pon and Tetris. Using blocks to perform chain attacks are a huge part of her fight style and Lip's stick works almost as well as it did as an item. It will return to the form of a bud when used to often, until eventually it blossoms back into a flower.

The more combos she performs with her chain attacks, the more garbage blocks she can store up before releasing her wrath upon her opponents. Her garbage blocks are massively powerful and cover lots of range. They are devastating when used as a meteor smash.
View attachment 145998

Sheriff: Sheriff appears as a legacy character as he is the oldest Nintendo character of all. I'm aware his game was a flop, but I think with a shortage of easy pickings, he is going to appear as a new criteria of newcomer. In Melee, there was a desire to have a true Famicom representative. I believe this time there will be a true arcade representative, someone who has only appeared in an arcade game and didn't have a sequel, similar to how Ice Climbers only appeared in a Famicom game and did not have a sequel. I believe this is the installment where the timing is perfect for Sheriff's inclusion.

Sheriff's unique ability is that he has eight directional attacks instead of four. All of his tilt attacks fire his pistol in a different direction. His neutral special is a charge shot. Again, he can use this to fire in one of eight directions, but the shot is more powerful and it suspends him in midair for a breif moment. He uses a whip in his smash attacks, similar to Kirby's cowboy transformation. His Up Special is Condor, his side special is Bandido, and his Down Special is Barrier (He hides and shoots behind the wooden post that has numbers on them).

I have a concept for the stage as well. It takes place inside the Sheriff Arcade Cabinet and the border around the screen can be seen. It's basically like the popular "Box" Custom Stage. Opponents cannot be KO'd until the dots around the screen are broken open.


Bomberman: Bomberman is probably the most requested third party character. The amount of Bomberman games is enormous and a lot of them are Nintendo exclusives. His alternate pallet swaps are the Bomberman Brothers from Super Bomberman R.


Simon: After Street Fighter and Final Fantasy getting characters, I believe Castlevania is the next big third party IP to have in Super Smash Bros. This series too has a history with Nintendo on the Famicom & Super Famicom.


Spring Man & Ribbon Girl: Here's the thing, I don't think Spring Man is likely, but I think it's possible he may become a late addition like Sonic because of his requests and the success of Arms on Nintendo Switch. But, I seriously doubt he was included in the original roster when the game started development.
"Her unique ability is her parasol and her love of music."

That's practically nothing and yet Dixie can't be unique because she has a similar build to diddy despite her main weapon being her hair which also has the ability to fly and glide...okay. Really not seeing the appeal in pauline, you can make a moveset for anyone, doesn't mean they're unique. and she's like not significant to the mario series at all

Also don't really get why toon zelda is here, she's not really popular in the slightest
 
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Troykv

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
3,990
While I disagree with the idea of Lyn using Magic and Armads, using a Bow isn't necessarily out of the question.

I doubt she would if she did get in, but she does use a bow both upon promotion in FE7, as well as in Heroes, so it wouldn't be abnormal at the very least.


Octolings, Qbby, and Revali/Urbosa are some ideas I have for Assist Trophies.

Octolings could use various weapons and attack the opponents, kinda like Takamaru and Dark Samus.
Qbby could throw blocks that could either be used as weapons or that could be stood on like platforms. He could also use Bomb and Rocket blocks from the third BoxBoy game.
Revali and Urbosa could use Area-of-Effect things. Where Urbosa creates a field of lightning and stuns opponents, or Revali creates an updraft that lightens characters in the air, similar to the effects found on Pokemon Stadium 2 and Summit.
Oh nice, I like the effects that the champions create.
Qbby the plataform boy, sounds like a AT that creates funny K.O. sittuations.
 

Pokechu

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You're contradicting yourself when you say that the rest are one-offs when Mipha herself is a one-off character. A mainstay "species" doesn't mean much when every other one-off character is also a mainstay species as well.
It's not contradicting. I know Mipha is one-off. That's why I mentioned that her game is the most recent.

The other one-offs? Like Midna, Ghirahim, Skull Kid? They aren't mainstay species (at least I don't think Skull Kid is lol I never played MM). And their games have LONG past.

So it's not contradictory.

The only other one-off characters I can think of that are also a mainstay species are the other champions (mostly daruk and mipha though). But granted my Zelda knowledge is relatively limited.

edit: skull kids appeared in OoT, TP, and MM. So yeah they appear here and there. But Zoras? They've been in OoT, MM, Oracle of Ages, WW, TP AND BoTW. THAT'S mainstay.
 
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Blargg888

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It's not contradicting. I know Mipha is one-off. That's why I mentioned that her game is the most recent.

The other one-offs? Like Midna, Ghirahim, Skull Kid? They aren't mainstay species (at least I don't think Skull Kid is lol I never played MM). And their games have LONG past.

So it's not contradictory.

The only other one-off characters I can think of that are also a mainstay species are the other champions. But granted my Zelda knowledge is relatively limited.

edit: skull kids appeared in OoT, TP, and MM. So yeah they appear here and there. But Zoras? They've been in OoT, MM, Oracle of Ages, WW, TP AND BoTW. THAT'S mainstay.
But why does it matter if a species is mainstay?
Yeah, it's been around a long time, but what does that have to do with Mipha herself, and why does the lack of a mainstay species detract from Skull Kid, Midna, etc. as characters?

There hasn't really ever been precedent for species being a major factor in Smash, so why is it so important?

I just don't really understand where you're going with this.
 

TheLastJinjo

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Why do so many people automatically assume that Dixie Kong will be 100% either a clone or a semi clone? Look at the fan-made movesets, if regular people can make her unique then a team of professionals should be able to do it too.

If Sakurai wants her in then he will give her an unique moveset(That's IF he wants her in which is a different story)
This is so naive and ill informed that it's kind of offensive.

Characters don't become clones because they can't be made unique. Let me try to demonstrate why you're argument is illogical:

"Why do so many people automatically assume that Lucas will be 100% either a clone or a semi clone? Look at the fan-made movesets, if regular people can make him unique then a team of professionals should be able to do it too."

"Why do so many people automatically assume that Dark Pit will be 100% either a clone or a semi clone? Look at the fan-made movesets, if regular people can make him unique then a team of professionals should be able to do it too."

"Why do so many people automatically assume that Chrom wouldn't be unique enough? Look at the fan-made movesets, if regular people can make him unique then a team of professionals should be able to do it too."

Fan made move sets are AWFUL. It's always fans desperately shoe horning in stuff that's not even unique to that character. Like having Toad summoning a go kart or Cranky Kong using a balloon as a recovery. Super Smash Bros characters ARE made by a team proffessionals. That's why characters have to meet higher standers than that.
 
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Pokechu

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But why does it matter if a species is mainstay?
Yeah, it's been around a long time, but what does that have to do with Mipha herself, and why does the lack of a mainstay species detract from Skull Kid, Midna, etc. as characters?

There hasn't really ever been precedent for species being a major factor in Smash, so why is it so important?

I just don't really understand where you're going with this.
Zoras being a recurring species alone isn't important, but it adds credence for Mipha because the species itself is relevant to Zelda. Midna and the imps? Unless we get TP 2 we aren't likely to see her again. But we get Zoras like every other game so even if Mipha herself is a one-off, her species isn't and Mipha would be easily recognizable because of that.

Just gives her (and Daruk) more credibility, really.
 

Khao

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My only issue with including one of BotW's champions is that there's really no reason to choose one champion over the other. What's the reason for picking Mipha and not Urbosa, Revali or Daruk? I'd be fine with any of them really, but none of them really stands out above the others, which makes any selection feel kind of arbitrary. Compare this to Sheik, who despite being a one-off character, has a kind of "exclusive" role due to being Zelda's alter-ego and showing up constantly to teach Link new songs. Even without being a Zelda transformation, her inclusion makes sense. You'd pick Sheik as a playable character, but you wouldn't really choose, say, one of the six sages because much like the champions, none of them stands out above the others.

I think Sakurai would look at characters with more unique roles instead.

EDIT: I guess you could kind-of counter this argument with Greninja, though, as he was almost arbitrarily picked over the other starters. But he's still kind of a special case in that Sakurai wanted a new-gen Pokémon, and saw moveset potential in a Pokémon that happened to be pretty much planned to become popular.
 
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NeonBurrito

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So... What do you think about new Assist Trophies?
I get the feeling that we may see some requested characters get turned into assist trophies, and people here aren't going to be happy.
I don't know who it'll happen to, but I'm certain it'll happen to somebody.
 

MoonlitIllusion

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This is so naive and ill informed that it's kind of offensive.

Characters don't become clones because they can't be made unique. Let me try to demonstrate why you're argument is illogical:

"Why do so many people automatically assume that Lucas will be 100% either a clone or a semi clone? Look at the fan-made movesets, if regular people can make him unique then a team of professionals should be able to do it too."

"Why do so many people automatically assume that Dark Pit will be 100% either a clone or a semi clone? Look at the fan-made movesets, if regular people can make him unique then a team of professionals should be able to do it too."

"Why do so many people automatically assume that Chrom wouldn't be unique enough? Look at the fan-made movesets, if regular people can make him unique then a team of professionals should be able to do it too."

Fan made move sets are AWFUL. It's always fans desperately shoe horning in stuff that's not even unique to that character. Like having Toad summoning a go kart or Cranky Kong using a balloon as a recovery. Super Smash Bros characters ARE made by a team proffessionals. That's why characters have to meet higher standers than that.
Except Dixie isn't pulling out a kart or any other random move, she's using her hair, her MAIN WEAPON to attack. Girl you can't be so dense to not be able to see the clear distinction between the way diddy fights and the way dixie would. Dixie wouldn't be as fast as diddy but she would have a strong aerial game, using the ability to glide in a similar vein to peach's float. They could also incorporate a grappler playstyle with her hair since in the DKC games she's able to pick up items with her hair. If that's not clearly distinct from Diddy I don't know what the **** is.

Dixie has MORE than enough to set her apart from diddy and you're in denial if you can't look past their similar builds and see that.
 
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Imadethistoseealeak

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My only issue with including one of BotW's champions is that there's really no reason to choose one champion over the other. What's the reason for picking Mipha and not Urbosa, Revali or Daruk? I'd be fine with any of them really, but none of them really stands out above the others, which makes any selection feel kind of arbitrary. Compare this to Sheik, who despite being a one-off character, has a kind of "exclusive" role due to being Zelda's alter-ego and showing up constantly to teach Link new songs. Even without being a Zelda transformation, her inclusion makes sense. You'd pick Sheik as a playable character, but you wouldn't really choose, say, one of the six sages because much like the champions, none of them stands out above the others.

I think Sakurai would look at characters with more unique roles instead.
The most commonly used analogy is the Pokemon starters. Greninja was chosen amongst, persumably the other Gen 6 starters. Charizard was chosen over the other Gen 1 starters (that one is a but different but bare with me). I think Sakurai could easily pick one champion out of the rest.

Now if he picked it after knowing a good deal about the game I could see Mipha as a likely pick. But from concept art alone? It was posted earlier in the thread but Mipha looked boring as ****, didn't even look like a fighter. Her chances may go down in that case.

I know the Pokemon analogy isn't 1:1, but it's close and something to think about. Cosmic gave another example in their detailed post in the Mipha support thread.

Edit: saw that you edited about Greninja, and yeah it's true Sakurai wanted to add a Pokemon and he could totally skip over Zelda again. I picked Mipha with the assumption and hope he wanted to add a Zelda character to represent BOTW
 
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Troykv

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Joined
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This is so naive and ill informed that it's kind of offensive.

Characters don't become clones because they can't be made unique. Let me try to demonstrate why you're argument is illogical:

"Why do so many people automatically assume that Lucas will be 100% either a clone or a semi clone? Look at the fan-made movesets, if regular people can make him unique then a team of professionals should be able to do it too."

"Why do so many people automatically assume that Dark Pit will be 100% either a clone or a semi clone? Look at the fan-made movesets, if regular people can make him unique then a team of professionals should be able to do it too."

"Why do so many people automatically assume that Chrom wouldn't be unique enough? Look at the fan-made movesets, if regular people can make him unique then a team of professionals should be able to do it too."

Fan made move sets are AWFUL. It's always fans desperately shoe horning in stuff that's not even unique to that character. Like having Toad summoning a go kart or Cranky Kong using a balloon as a recovery. Super Smash Bros characters ARE made by a team proffessionals. That's why characters have to meet higher standers than that.
Did you know someone that isn't Sakurai that does movesets that you can like? o.o
 
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MoonlitIllusion

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I really thought we left the "Dixie would just be a clone" argument behind years ago but apparently people still refuse to look past them having a similar build, which is literally THE ONLY THING THEY SHARE GAMEPLAY WISE IN THE DKC GAMES
 
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Pokechu

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My only issue with including one of BotW's champions is that there's really no reason to choose one champion over the other. What's the reason for picking Mipha and not Urbosa, Revali or Daruk? I'd be fine with any of them really, but none of them really stands out above the others, which makes any selection feel kind of arbitrary. Compare this to Sheik, who despite being a one-off character, has a kind of "exclusive" role due to being Zelda's alter-ego and showing up constantly to teach Link new songs. Even without being a Zelda transformation, her inclusion makes sense. You'd pick Sheik as a playable character, but you wouldn't really choose, say, one of the six sages because much like the champions, none of them stands out above the others.

I think Sakurai would look at characters with more unique roles instead.
honestly I think Mipha and Daruk would be above the others because their species appeared in Zelda more times than Urbosa/Gerudos or Revali/Ritos. Gorons and Zoras are like the main species of Zelda.

And out of Mipha and Daruk it'd go to Mipha because with her healing ability, her trident and her connection to Link she's overall more relevant. Plus IDK if it's just me but she seems to be more popular.

someone beat me to this but Sakurai would pick a champion similarly to how he picked Greninja out of the three starters for XY. Or how Charizard stayed but SquirtIvy left.
What do you even say to that?
You say a response.

Not unnecessary snark and snide.
 

ToddCam

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Arcadenik Arcadenik If Scorpion were to be included, would you be cool if he moved choppily like he does in the original games? Would you be okay with him looking like a series of photographs of a real person?
 

MysticKnives

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*cough*LBJ sucks*cough*

Well this is new for me. Good thing I'm saving my adapters then

Remind me to send the card to announce I'm taking your heart once Joker gets announced ;)

So do you feel that Pyra's design sucks? Because I sure do

I think we're getting 18 newcomers this time around. How many you think is gonna happen

Dude E-3 DOES feel like it's so far away. It's like the 72 hours from Majora's Mask all over again


:troll:


Hell. ****ing. Yes.


That would be amazing in Stock mode when your opponent's down to the last stock and you activate it


BOOM

Yeah...I ain't falling for that when I see Son Goku's name on the list
Had to respond to this as a late response.... Dissing on flippin LeBron James? Nah.
 

Blargg888

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This is so naive and ill informed that it's kind of offensive.

Characters don't become clones because they can't be made unique. Let me try to demonstrate why you're argument is illogical:

"Why do so many people automatically assume that Lucas will be 100% either a clone or a semi clone? Look at the fan-made movesets, if regular people can make him unique then a team of professionals should be able to do it too."

"Why do so many people automatically assume that Dark Pit will be 100% either a clone or a semi clone? Look at the fan-made movesets, if regular people can make him unique then a team of professionals should be able to do it too."

"Why do so many people automatically assume that Chrom wouldn't be unique enough? Look at the fan-made movesets, if regular people can make him unique then a team of professionals should be able to do it too."

Fan made move sets are AWFUL. It's always fans desperately shoe horning in stuff that's not even unique to that character. Like having Toad summoning a go kart or Cranky Kong using a balloon as a recovery. Super Smash Bros characters ARE made by a team proffessionals. That's why characters have to meet higher standers than that.
Even if that is true, why do you insist that Dixie can't possibly have her own unique moveset?
How can you possibly say such a thing when you know nothing in that regard yourself?
Nothing in your post really gives you a solid reason for thinking that Dixie could never be original, so why?

You say "Don't tell me that Dixie wouldn't be a clone, because that's incorrect" But why do you think that?

What gives you the right and reason to claim with such absolution that you know Dixie could never not be a clone?
How can you possibly be so sure to even say "If you think this you're wrong."?

It's just really confusing and baffling.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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The most commonly used analogy is the Pokemon starters. Greninja was chosen amongst, persumably the other Gen 6 starters. Charizard was chosen over the other Gen 1 starters (that one is a but different but bare with me). I think Sakurai could easily pick one champion out of the rest.

Now if he picked it after knowing a good deal about the game I could see Mipha as a likely pick. But from concept art alone? It was posted earlier in the thread but Mipha looked boring as ****, didn't even look like a fighter. Her chances may go down in that case.

I know the Pokemon analogy isn't 1:1, but it's close and something to think about. Cosmic gave another example in their detailed post in the Mipha support thread.
The problem is that Sakurai saw potential explicitly in that Pokemon because it also had a build and concept art of some moves and poses.

We can't say the same for the Champions. Though if he did see the concept art and found one Champion to look like they could have a more promising moveset than the other, it is possible. But to be a Greninja case, Sakurai would clearly have to want to directly include a BOTW character. Much like how he wanted a Gen VI Pokemon specifically. I'm not so sure he'd go for that as easily. He hasn't really looked at the Zelda series for choices in the same way. He may also have various things he wants from the Zelda series too. It's hard to say. Not saying we can't get a Champion, as a similar situation could happen, where he finds a good idea via concept art. But beyond that, there's ultimately no real reason to choose one over the other. Their popularity among fans didn't come into fruition till way later.

On the other hand, the idea he could choose a Champion for DLC has somewhat more merit, but only if we consider the idea he thinks fan popularity should trump how much they're promoted as equals.
 

MoonlitIllusion

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Even if that is true, why do you insist that Dixie can't possibly have her own unique moveset?
How can you possibly say such a thing when you know nothing in that regard yourself?
Nothing in your post really gives you a solid reason for thinking that Dixie could never be original, so why?

You say "Don't tell me that Dixie wouldn't be a clone, because that's incorrect" But why do you think that?

What gives you the right and reason to claim with such absolution that you know Dixie could never not be a clone?
How can you possibly be so sure to even say "If you think this you're wrong."?

It's just really confusing and baffling.
And the funny thing is that Dixie was planned for Brawl to be a tag-team character with diddy, where she obviously wouldn't have been a clone
 

KingIceSonic

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Except Dixie isn't pulling out a kart or any other random move, she's using her hair, her MAIN WEAPON to attack. Girl you can't be so dense to not be able to see the clear distinction between the way diddy fights and the way dixie would. Dixie wouldn't be as fast as diddy but she would have a strong aerial game, using the ability to glide in a similar vein to peach's float. They could also incorporate a grappler playstyle with her hair since in the DKC games she's able to pick up items with her hair. If that's not clearly distinct from Diddy I don't know what the **** is.

Dixie has MORE than enough to set her apart from diddy and you're in denial if you can't look past their similar builds and see that.
I feel like once some people put in their mind "This character will be a clone" then they will never change their opinion until Sakurai works his magic. I still remember back in the day when people said that Rosalina would just be a clone lol

Grappler Dixie sounds fun, we need more characters that can grab in the air, I want to see more suicidal moves like Bowser/Ganondorfs side E
 
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Bradli Wartooth

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Mipha is my preference, but I'm an advocate of the unrealistic "Add all the champions through DLC" stance :p They're all great, and it'd be cool to see descendants of them in future Zelda titles to indirectly make them recurring characters.
 

Arcadenik

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Arcadenik Arcadenik If Scorpion were to be included, would you be cool if he moved choppily like he does in the original games? Would you be okay with him looking like a series of photographs of a real person?
Real person? Looks too out of place... but I would be okay with choppy animations. We already have characters with choppy animations. :4gaw::4wario:
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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And the funny thing is that Dixie was planned for Brawl to be a tag-team character with diddy, where she obviously wouldn't have been a clone
Well, we don't actually know what she'd be like. She could've been a semi-clone for all we know. Having some similar moves to Diddy. Akin to what Jigglypuff is to Kirby. Obviously she wouldn't be a full clone with few differences, as that's not possible due to different models and abilities. It wouldn't work. Semi is remotely possible. I think she might've been a Wolf style semi-clone(which is similar to what Jigglypuff is, heh), though.

We don't know any of the details of the switch mechanic they had, other than the fact it didn't work. It already means it wasn't a transformation like Zelda or Pokemon Trainer. It could've been kind of like Ice Climbers, but they switched places. Maybe the fact Dixie couldn't take damage during that time became a balance issue instead? It's very difficult to say due to a lack of details.
 

MoonlitIllusion

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Well, we don't actually know what she'd be like. She could've been a semi-clone for all we know. Having some similar moves to Diddy. Akin to what Jigglypuff is to Kirby. Obviously she wouldn't be a full clone with few differences, as that's not possible due to different models and abilities. It wouldn't work. Semi is remotely possible. I think she might've been a Wolf style semi-clone(which is similar to what Jigglypuff is, heh), though.

We don't know any of the details of the switch mechanic they had, other than the fact it didn't work. It already means it wasn't a transformation like Zelda or Pokemon Trainer. It could've been kind of like Ice Climbers, but they switched places. Maybe the fact Dixie couldn't take damage during that time became a balance issue instead? It's very difficult to say due to a lack of details.
Regardless she would've had a very distinct moveset from Diddy, the whole concept of them being a tag-team implies that their moveset would be very different from one another, a double character where their playstyles are the same and the moveset is shared/similar kinda defeats the purpose, although like Wolf she would've likely shared misc animations which makes sense to do even now given their similar builds of course.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Regardless she would've had a very distinct moveset from Diddy, the whole concept of them being a tag-team implies that their moveset would be very different from one another, a double character where their playstyles are similar kinda defeats the purpose, although like Wolf she would've likely shared misc animations which makes sense to do even now given their similar builds of course.
I don't think it honestly implies much of anything. The fact he didn't make her playable in 4 could mean just about anything. About the only thing we can gather at best is the most potential he saw in her was due to the tag team mechanic moreso than anything else. Man can be fickle sometimes.

Though I do think she would've been more akin to Wolf, there's just no strong evidence to suggest that. Even if they were fairly similar playstyles, the tag team mechanic could've accounted for that; remember, we don't know any of how it worked. If, for instance, the other character didn't take any damage till they were tagged in, even the idea they'd have similar playstyles would still make a difference due to less damage. Plus, having a similar moveset doesn't mean they can approach the same. Take Ganondorf and Captain Falcon. Or even Mario and Dr. Mario. Similar movesets. Very different playstyles. To note, playstyle or moveset could've been similar(though I do overall still agree that it wasn't too likely she had a similar overall playstyle, even if she had a lot of cloned moves). I just feel we don't have enough real evidence to come to a good conclusion.
 

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I have the strange feeling that you guys don't actually know how clones work. I actually I know it for a fact. Because you are objectively wrong about the process by which clones happen/don't happen.

  1. Clones are a result of characters who can be built from a similar model, animations, and ABILITIES with the base character. The fact that said character has their own uniqueness separate from the base character, is not a determining factor that they would not be a clone. Clones have their own unique traits, and yet they are still clones. Dark Pit has his staff and electroshock arm, Lucas uses different PSI abilities, Wolf has claws, a unique posture, and several of his own unique moves and ways of performing them.
  2. Characters that share similar models, animations, abilities are reserved as lower priority characters that are added late in development because they can be made easily by borrowing those assets, and because those traits make them less unique than other characters. The fact that Dixie shares a similar model, animations, and abilities with Diddy is what determines that she would in fact be a clone added late in development, because she can be made quicker that way.
  3. Dixie Kong objectively has a similar model to Diddy, which means she can easily borrow moves, animations, and abilities from Diddy. The Gumball Gun and Monkey Flip are examples of this.
So when you say "Why can't Dixie be unique?", it's just as ridicolous as saying "Why can't Lucas be unique? Why can't Wolf be unique? Why can't Toon Link be unique?"

Just because these characters COULD be unique, doesn't mean that they ARE or that they WILL BE. There's a reason Lucas doesn't have unique PSI abilities, or why Toon Link doesn't have his own items or weapons, or why Robin was chosen over Chrom.

And the nuance of this needs to be established. The big determining factors are, firstly, the model structure. This is the first requirement, because once you have this, you can then move on to animations. So when a character has a similar model, which then gives them similar animations, they can then perform similar abilities.

So for example
  • Rosalina may look similar to Peach, but her different model (such as her dress) prevents her from performing the same animations as Peach, which, in combination with her canonical lack of said abilities, prevents her from performing similar abilities.
  • Someone like Dixie, has a very similar model, which allows her to perform some of the same animations as Diddy, which in turn allows her to perform similar abilities, like the Gumball Gun and Monkey Flip. However, as mentioned, she DOES have unique abilities such as her hair and guitar, but this only means some of her non special attacks and her final smash would be different. No that her entire move set would be. That would be like saying that Wolf has claws so he would be an entirely different character.
 

PSIGuy

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Dixie and Diddy are more like Luigi and Mario, really. Some completely different moves and physics, but some very similar ones too (and even the similar looking moves have different properties).
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Agreed, Sidon would fit in so well.
To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if Sidon showed up in some form. Assist Trophy even.

...Though I'd love Revali as an Assist Trophy that's nothing more than just being his lovable obnoxious self~(akin to Resetti, as in not really affecting the battle).
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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There were files ideas for some characters in Brawl, some were actually carried over from Melee but some character ideas were in the files of the game itself.

Not sure why they did or not but they did exist in the game files.
 

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I have the strange feeling that you guys don't actually know how clones work. I actually I know it for a fact. Because you are objectively wrong about the process by which clones happen/don't happen.

  1. Clones are a result of characters who can be built from a similar model, animations, and ABILITIES with the base character. The fact that said character has their own uniqueness separate from the base character, is not a determining factor that they would not be a clone. Clones have their own unique traits, and yet they are still clones. Dark Pit has his staff and electroshock arm, Lucas uses different PSI abilities, Wolf has claws, a unique posture, and several of his own unique moves and ways of performing them.
  2. Characters that share similar models, animations, abilities are reserved as lower priority characters that are added late in development because they can be made easily by borrowing those assets, and because those traits make them less unique than other characters. The fact that Dixie shares a similar model, animations, and abilities with Diddy is what determines that she would in fact be a clone added late in development, because she can be made quicker that way.
  3. Dixie Kong objectively has a similar model to Diddy, which means she can easily borrow moves, animations, and abilities from Diddy. The Gumball Gun and Monkey Flip are examples of this.
So when you say "Why can't Dixie be unique?", it's just as ridicolous as saying "Why can't Lucas be unique? Why can't Wolf be unique? Why can't Toon Link be unique?"

Just because these characters COULD be unique, doesn't mean that they ARE or that they WILL BE. There's a reason Lucas doesn't have unique PSI abilities, or why Toon Link doesn't have his own items or weapons, or why Robin was chosen over Chrom.

And the nuance of this needs to be established. The big determining factors are, firstly, the model structure. This is the first requirement, because once you have this, you can then move on to animations. So when a character has a similar model, which then gives them similar animations, they can then perform similar abilities.

So for example
  • Rosalina may look similar to Peach, but her different model (such as her dress) prevents her from performing the same animations as Peach, which, in combination with her canonical lack of said abilities, prevents her from performing similar abilities.
  • Someone like Dixie, has a very similar model, which allows her to perform some of the same animations as Diddy, which in turn allows her to perform similar abilities, like the Gumball Gun and Monkey Flip. However, as mentioned, she DOES have unique abilities such as her hair and guitar, but this only means some of her non special attacks and her final smash would be different. No that her entire move set would be. That would be like saying that Wolf has claws so he would be an entirely different character.
Except the way Dixie plays in her games is distinctly different from Diddy, while they could share misc animations there's no way in hell they would share attacks because the way Diddy fights is simply not in character for dixie and wouldn't reflect the way Dixie actually plays in the DKC games.

And even if they did make her a semi-clone why would that make her in any way unlikely?
 
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