Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Zinith]

Well, I missed like 20 pages of this thread. What happened? Did someone undermine Yoshi's popularity and influence while I was away?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Well, I missed like 20 pages of this thread. What happened? Did someone undermine Yoshi's popularity and influence while I was away?

We talked about penis demons.

 

[Chandeelure]

I wonder if we will get real and convincing leaks before E3...

 

[Zinith]

We talked about penis demons.

It's Mara, isn't it...

 

[Pokechu]

I couldn’t get down with this

hey it's better than what we have now 6 swords? no lance? no axe? just swords, some magic, and a dragon swordsman?

at least with those four we get the whole weapon triangle + some magic + a dancer. all of that with two less characters. if we add tiki then we get a real dragon, and it's all of that with one less character.

I'm curious, what characters would you choose and how'd you distribute them? since honestly for my distribution anna in brawl doesn't make any sense but it's not like robin or azura could have been in brawl

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I just saw a Smash meme using this Mara...I don’t think it’s showable but I laughed out new Smash characters

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

It's Mara, isn't it...

The one who goes for the throat.

Of course.

 

[Furret24]

Aww I liked having you here. It's nice to see someone with so much passion and excitement for their most wanted I feel the same way about Ridley as you feel about Joker.

If he was as passionate as you, their name would be Jokerbradli Wartooth.

 

[Idon]

Honestly, this weapon triangle argument is dumb.

Wanting characters based on what weapons they wield rather than their design, personality, and story is just ridiculous, especially when characters can do so many things with what weapons and abilities they have regardless.

The worst part is I see it used all the time by people to push for characters they know NOTHING about outside of their preferred weapon.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

My favorite FE game doesn't even have the weapon triangle so I'm fine not seeing it get completed.

Though it would be hilarious if Kirby gets the complete physical triangle before FE does.

 

[Pokechu]

Honestly, this weapon triangle argument is dumb.

Wanting characters based on what weapons they wield rather than their design, personality, and story is just ridiculous, especially when characters can do so many things with what weapons and abilities they have regardless.

The worst part is I see it used all the time by people to push for characters they know NOTHING about outside of their preferred weapon.

When the weapon triangle is an important part of Fire Emblem and its strategy though and has been there since the start, then I find it a bit ridiculous how Kirby with 3 characters has more of the weapon triangle done than Fire Emblem with 6.

I get how asking for the weapon triangle in Smash is like asking for the fire/water/grass starter trio and its pretty arbitrary but Fire Emblem is more than just swords and I feel its playable representation in Smash is WACK

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I mean...one series can be bigger overall while the other is bigger right now...right?

Clearly Fire Emblem has received a push because it has gained steam with each new title. Donkey Kong is established through the entire industry and has been for many years.

Obviously Fire Emblem can’t compete with the sales of the Donkey Kong series as a whole, but you can’t deny that Fire Emblem, right now, is a big deal and making a name for itself.

Not to mention, Fire Emblem will likely never catch up simply because of genre alone. I would imagine far more people would be interested in a platformer than a startegy game.

Basically, Fire Emblem is a big deal because it has consistently been showing profit potential. Donkey Kong hasn’t seen a new entry in a few years, but will likely receive quite the pop for a brand new platformer. It’s a classic and will always have that appeal.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

https://twitter.com/Konami/status/1003680405222879232

Are they... are they teasing my boy
They had better not use "explosive" as an adjective unless they mean it...

Maybe it's a hint for smash but wouldn't take it with a grain of salt though

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Is it still cool to share roster's for thought? Might as well get it in before anything leaks or we have something more interesting than penis demons to talk about.

My boyfriend helped me make it actually pretty and helped me feel less self-conscious about posting it .
Overall pretty normal I think, part popular prediction picks, part wishlist, part Vergeben "leak".

Willing to discuss some of my picks, but unless you've got some insider info probably not gunna convince me to change it until after E3 lol.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

When the weapon triangle is an important part of Fire Emblem and its strategy though and has been there since the start

No it hasn't. Weapon triangle wasn't introduced as a mechanic until the 4th game.

Even then the exact effect of the triangle and what's affected by it vary on the game. And we've even had games since its introduction that have totally(Echoes) or partially(Radiant Dawn) ignored the triangle.

 

[KingIceSonic]

Well, I missed like 20 pages of this thread. What happened? Did someone undermine Yoshi's popularity and influence while I was away?

Corrin is more popular than Yoshi

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Is it still cool to share roster's for thought? Might as well get it in before anything leaks or we have something more interesting than penis demons to talk about.

My boyfriend helped me make it actually pretty and helped me feel less self-conscious about posting it .
Overall pretty normal I think, part popular prediction picks, part wishlist, part Vergeben "leak".

Willing to discuss some of my picks, but unless you've got some insider info probably not gunna convince me to change it until after E3 lol.

NeedsmoreCrash/10

 

[Pokechu]

No it hasn't. Weapon triangle wasn't introduced as a mechanic until the 4th game.

Even then the exact effect of the triangle and what's affected by it vary on the game. And we've even had games since its introduction that have totally(Echoes) or partially(Radiant Dawn) ignored the triangle.

oh shoot i forgot to edit that to say almost since the start, my bad

regardless the weapon triangle itself doesn't have to make it in but a weapon other than swords definitely should as even our mage and dragon for the series... uses a sword.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

hey it's better than what we have now 6 swords? no lance? no axe? just swords, some magic, and a dragon swordsman?

at least with those four we get the whole weapon triangle + some magic + a dancer. all of that with two less characters. if we add tiki then we get a real dragon, and it's all of that with one less character.

I'm curious, what characters would you choose and how'd you distribute them? since honestly for my distribution anna in brawl doesn't make any sense but it's not like robin or azura could have been in brawl

Keep the characters how they are and add Lyn or Celica as a full character (with the other as an alt for Robin or Lucina)

- English voice and an Alm alt
- Speak English and some buffs
- Idk
- keep the same (and force Chrom to be roasted by Gods once more)
-giver her a lance to use aswell
-keep how they are

Lyn (if new character) - have her use her sword, magic, a bow, be able to heal herself and teammates, and use the axe of Hector. That way she’d be more than a sword user (since Heroes has 5 different versions of Lyn, even easier for a unique Lyn)...also use her Heroes/Warriors voice
Celica (if new) - sword and magic while gaining some minor damage
Anna (if new) - have her use literally everything in FE...and she loses nothing

Is it still cool to share roster's for thought? Might as well get it in before anything leaks or we have something more interesting than penis demons to talk about.

My boyfriend helped me make it actually pretty and helped me feel less self-conscious about posting it .
Overall pretty normal I think, part popular prediction picks, part wishlist, part Vergeben "leak".

Willing to discuss some of my picks, but unless you've got some insider info probably not gunna convince me to change it until after E3 lol.

only thing I’m not for Ian Konami having two reps, no waifu Viridi/Lyn, Mipha over Sidon the Hunk and the happy cute Villager (MK8...D...is the exception)...other than that you got a sexy list...

...I’m not into guys, but I’ll be stealing your boyfriend to profit off of him

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

NeedsmoreCrash/10

Have I not gone on record here saying that Crash is the ugliest? Sorry, not sorry .

 

[Blargg888]

Is it still cool to share roster's for thought? Might as well get it in before anything leaks or we have something more interesting than penis demons to talk about.

My boyfriend helped me make it actually pretty and helped me feel less self-conscious about posting it .
Overall pretty normal I think, part popular prediction picks, part wishlist, part Vergeben "leak".

Willing to discuss some of my picks, but unless you've got some insider info probably not gunna convince me to change it until after E3 lol.

I would be 100% okay with this.
It looks very appealing.

 

[Pazzo.]

Had a neat idea of the Baby Metroid being shown in the dark, then Ridley fading in for his Smash trailer. But it keep making these horror-cuts to the other Smash Bros characters before he's entirely out of the shadows.

I can already hear the screams of... excitement.

 

[Pacack]

Since the topic came up, I thought I should do some digging.

Nintendo Franchises by Sales:
S+:(Sales > 625 Million)
S: (Sales > 300 Million)
S-: (Sales > 200 Million)
AAA: (Sales > 100 Million)
AA: (Sales >50 Million)
A+: , Smash Bros. (Sales > 35 Million)
A: (Sales > 30 Million)
A-: , Nintendogs (Sales > 20 Million)
B+: (Sales > 15 Million)
B: , Splatoon (Sales >10 Million)
B-: , Excite, Nintendo Land (Sales ~ 5 Million)
C: (Sales ~ 3-5 Million)
D: (Sales ~ 3 Million)
E: (Sales ~ 1.9 Million)

 

[Pokechu]

Since the topic came up, I thought I should do some digging.

Nintendo Franchises by Sales importance:
A-: , Nintendogs (Sales > 20 Million)

i get how there's PETA and all

but Nintendog for Smash when? I'll take Robodog even

 

[Pazzo.]

Splatoon just keeps jumping up the charts. Wouldn't be surprised if it makes to low A- with number 3.

 

[Troykv]

So... What do you think about new Assist Trophies?

 

[Idon]

Lyn (if new character) - have her use her sword, magic, a bow, be able to heal herself and teammates, and use the axe of Hector. That way she’d be more than a sword user (since Heroes has 5 different versions of Lyn, even easier for a unique Lyn)...also use her Heroes/Warriors voice

Honestly, even though I want Lyn in Smash, I definitely don't think she should have magic or the Armads. It's not true to her character and I feel she's already unique enough with her iaijitsu than to need these weapons she's never used before. On top of that, it also undermines her playstyle in her original game as a person who overwhelms their opponent with close range attacks and speed.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Since the topic came up, I thought I should do some digging.

Nintendo Franchises by Sales importance:
S+:(Sales > 625 Million)
S: (Sales > 300 Million)
S-: (Sales > 200 Million)
AAA: (Sales > 100 Million)
AA: (Sales >50 Million)
A+: , Smash Bros. (Sales > 35 Million)
A: (Sales > 30 Million)
A-: , Nintendogs (Sales > 20 Million)
B+: (Sales > 15 Million)
B: , Splatoon (Sales >10 Million)
B-: , Excite, Nintendo Land (Sales ~ 5 Million)
C: (Sales ~ 3-5 Million)
D: (Sales ~ 3 Million)
E: (Sales ~ 1.9 Million)

What's the source for these figures? Also, comparing lifetime sales numbers like this(which is what I assume these are, apologies if not) is a bit unfair. For instance Mario has like ten gazillion games so of course it's going to outstrip everything in terms of raw sales.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

True, but I wouldn’t be against them using aspects of Heroes as additional things to a potential moveset

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Aww I liked having you here. It's nice to see someone with so much passion and excitement for their most wanted I feel the same way about Ridley as you feel about Joker.

I'll still actually be around. I don't like to shove Joker down peoples throats, but at the same time he's the first character I've ever felt this passionate about, and he's the first character I've been passionate about that I think actually has a chance. You can still expect to see me here, but I likely will not be as engaged in any conversation that doesn't revolve around Joker. Thanks for enjoying my commentary on the subject, though!

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Is it still cool to share roster's for thought? Might as well get it in before anything leaks or we have something more interesting than penis demons to talk about.

My boyfriend helped me make it actually pretty and helped me feel less self-conscious about posting it .
Overall pretty normal I think, part popular prediction picks, part wishlist, part Vergeben "leak".

Willing to discuss some of my picks, but unless you've got some insider info probably not gunna convince me to change it until after E3 lol.

I wanna like this, but Mipha is just silly. I know you only have Rayman because he was a trophy in Super Smash Bros for Wii U (which so was Runner) and you might think that Ubisoft and Nintendo supporting each other means that Nintendo owes Ubisoft a favor by shoe horning in their mascot into their very exclusive roster, which is also silly.

Dixie Kong is unfortunately unlikely. In the last Super Smash Bros game, Sakurai specifically stated he didn't want to add any clone newcomers, and the only reason Dr. Mario, Dark Pit, and Lucina were added was because they were originally costumes that were separated. And don't try to tell me Dixie Kong wouldn't be a clone/semi-clone, because that's just incorrect.

You also have two retro famicom characters. I would just stick with Balloon Fighter. Takamaru is unlikely. He was dismissed last time because his original game was Japan Only which is why Sakurai stated he would never work popularity wise. And the 3DS virtual console released doesn't change that imo.

Not trying to make you self conscious.

only thing I’m not for Ian Konami having two reps

Wait, Capcom can have two characters, but Konami can't, even when one of them is just a returning veteran?

 

[Pacack]

What's the source for these figures? Also, comparing lifetime sales numbers like this(which is what I assume these are, apologies if not) is a bit unfair. For instance Mario has like ten gazillion games so of course it's going to outstrip everything in terms of raw sales.

Combination of wikipedia, official sales figures that I could find, and here.

The only series that I'm not convinced is accurate is Fire Emblem, as it's hard to find any concrete sources on EShop sales, which were likely a significant portion.

I'm aware that the numbers don't tell us everything about the current environment, but it's important to note regardless. I would compile a list for the past few years, but that would be more of an ordeal than I'm honestly willing to deal with.

 

[Blargg888]

Lyn

While I disagree with the idea of Lyn using Magic and Armads, using a Bow isn't necessarily out of the question.

I doubt she would if she did get in, but she does use a bow both upon promotion in FE7, as well as in Heroes, so it wouldn't be abnormal at the very least.

So... What do you think about new Assist Trophies?

Octolings, Qbby, and Revali/Urbosa are some ideas I have for Assist Trophies.

Octolings could use various weapons and attack the opponents, kinda like Takamaru and Dark Samus.
Qbby could throw blocks that could either be used as weapons or that could be stood on like platforms. He could also use Bomb and Rocket blocks from the third BoxBoy game.
Revali and Urbosa could use Area-of-Effect things. Where Urbosa creates a field of lightning and stuns opponents, or Revali creates an updraft that lightens characters in the air, similar to the effects found on Pokemon Stadium 2 and Summit.

 

[Pokechu]

I wanna like this, but Mipha is just silly.

What's so silly about Mipha? Honestly she has the best shot out of any Zelda character. Impa's been passed over for a reason and no one likes Tingle (but if you ask me I love him). The rest are one-offs. With Mipha her game is still recent, she's a Zora so she's a long stay species in Zelda and she'd be recognizable, and she uses a trident (not in Smash, unique play style) and has healing abilities to boot. She'd be VERY unique.

Dixie Kong is unfortunately unlikely. In the last Super Smash Bros game, Sakurai specifically stated he didn't want to add any clone newcomers, and the only reason Dr. Mario, Dark Pit, and Lucina were added was because they were originally costumes that were separated. And don't try to tell me Dixie Kong wouldn't be a clone/semi-clone, because that's just incorrect.

what? are you really convinced that dixie can't be more than a semi-clone? with her ponytail, her guitar, her Bubblegum Popgun, calling upon animals like Squawk for help, and you're going to act like she can't be more than a clone? you need to stop by her support thread @ https://smashboards.com/threads/whipping-up-trouble-dixie-kongs-barrel-of-support-buddies.446464/

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I wanna like this, but Mipha is just silly. I know you only have Rayman because he was a trophy in Super Smash Bros for Wii U (which so was Runner) and you might think that Ubisoft and Nintendo supporting each other means that Nintendo owes Ubisoft a favor by shoe horning in their mascot into their very exclusive roster, which is also silly.

Dixie Kong is unfortunately unlikely. In the last Super Smash Bros game, Sakurai specifically stated he didn't want to add any clone newcomers, and the only reason Dr. Mario, Dark Pit, and Lucina were added was because they were originally costumes that were separated. And don't try to tell me Dixie Kong wouldn't be a clone/semi-clone, because that's just incorrect.

You also have two retro famicom characters. I would just stick with Balloon Fighter. Takamaru is unlikely. He was dismissed last time because his original game was Japan Only which is why Sakurai stated he would never work popularity wise. And the 3DS virtual console released doesn't change that imo.

Not trying to make you self conscious.


Wait, Capcom can have two characters, but Konami can't, even when one of them is just a returning veteran?

What is this whole mess of reply? the ****

Rayman is an iconic character in his own right, far more iconic than a lot of the 3rd parties people suggest.

And literally nothing about Dixie implies she'd be a clone other than the fact that her and diddy share a similar build, a lot of other characters share similar builds but Dixie would use her hair entirely to fight which is completely different than anything diddy can do. The fact that Dixie was planned for Brawl shows that sakurai had a unique moveset planned too

 

[Pacack]

Note: My list does not include Fire Emblem: Heroes as the revenue for it isn't "sales." I also couldn't find anything concrete on it.

Also, fun fact, Nintendo has never had a dedicated handheld console sell anything fewer than 43.4 million units.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Combination of wikipedia, official sales figures that I could find, and here.

The only series that I'm not convinced is accurate is Fire Emblem, as it's hard to find any concrete sources on EShop sales, which were likely a significant portion.

I'm aware that the numbers don't tell us everything about the current environment, but it's important to note regardless. I would compile a list for the past few years, but that would be more of an ordeal than I'm honestly willing to deal with.

Yeah I agree that factoring in sales is not a bad thing to look at, but I think you'd need to factor in a variety of variables to get a true estimate of "importance based on sales.

So you'd base it on a mix of something like

• Raw lifetime sales
• Average sales for any typical game in the series
• Age of the series
• Release schedule/rate of the series(e.g. how often do we see a new entry in the series)
• Perhaps a comparison of more recent sales vs. how successful the series is currently vs. in the past

But figuring out specifics would be a pain so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

 

[Pacack]

Yeah I agree that factoring in sales is not a bad thing to look at, but I think you'd need to factor in a variety of variables to get a true estimate of "importance based on sales.

So you'd base it on a mix of something like

• Raw lifetime sales
• Average sales for any typical game in the series
• Age of the series
• Release schedule/rate of the series(e.g. how often do we see a new entry in the series)
• Perhaps a comparison of more recent sales vs. how successful the series is currently vs. in the past

But figuring out specifics would be a pain so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

Yeah, fair.

I went ahead and edited it to simply say sales.

Also, @lurkers feel free to join us. We're opinionated, but we don't bite.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I wanna like this, but Mipha is just silly. I know you only have Rayman because he was a trophy in Super Smash Bros for Wii U (which so was Runner) and you might think that Ubisoft and Nintendo supporting each other means that Nintendo owes Ubisoft a favor by shoe horning in their mascot into their very exclusive roster, which is also silly.

Dixie Kong is unfortunately unlikely. In the last Super Smash Bros game, Sakurai specifically stated he didn't want to add any clone newcomers, and the only reason Dr. Mario, Dark Pit, and Lucina were added was because they were originally costumes that were separated. And don't try to tell me Dixie Kong wouldn't be a clone/semi-clone, because that's just incorrect.

You also have two retro famicom characters. I would just stick with Balloon Fighter. Takamaru is unlikely. He was dismissed last time because his original game was Japan Only which is why Sakurai stated he would never work popularity wise. And the 3DS virtual console released doesn't change that imo.

Not trying to make you self conscious.


Wait, Capcom can have two characters, but Konami can't, even when one of them is just a returning veteran?

Most of these things I thought about when making these choices and like I said I'm not changing my mind now but I'll definitely let you know what I thought.

1. Mipha is absolutely a wish list character, and get this shes not even the Zelda character I want! However I really want Zelda to receive a newcomer, and I believe their best chance is with BOTW, which most likely means a champion. Mipha is the most likely out of those in my opinion (rip Urbosa). However I am absolutely aware she isn't very likely.

2. Disregarding the Vergeben "leak" (which could totally wind up false) Rayman is the only 3rd party I can point to evidence. I hate predicting third parties, but the collaboration between Ubisoft and Nintendo just makes too much sense. I mean no other third party company has created a spin off with Mario on that level (you could argue Mario & Sonic Olympic game, but that was after Sonic's appearance in Brawl). I definitely don't see it as Nintendo "owing" Ubisoft, but something I feel would have naturally come up in their partnership.

3. I do disagree that Dixie Kong would be a clone. Maybe semi-clone. But agree to disagree.

4. Every smash since melee has had two retros, usually they have been a retro and a "hardware representative", but smash 4 blurred that line with Duck Hunt in my opinion. I imagine blurring that line even further with Balloon Fighter being in honor of Iwata. People in the past have spoke poorly about that so I apologize if you take it the wrong way.

5. I agree with Capcom and Sega getting two reps, so can Konami.

Thanks for the discussion points!

 

[KingIceSonic]

I wanna like this, but Mipha is just silly. I know you only have Rayman because he was a trophy in Super Smash Bros for Wii U (which so was Runner) and you might think that Ubisoft and Nintendo supporting each other means that Nintendo owes Ubisoft a favor by shoe horning in their mascot into their very exclusive roster, which is also silly.

Dixie Kong is unfortunately unlikely. In the last Super Smash Bros game, Sakurai specifically stated he didn't want to add any clone newcomers, and the only reason Dr. Mario, Dark Pit, and Lucina were added was because they were originally costumes that were separated. And don't try to tell me Dixie Kong wouldn't be a clone/semi-clone, because that's just incorrect.

You also have two retro famicom characters. I would just stick with Balloon Fighter. Takamaru is unlikely. He was dismissed last time because his original game was Japan Only which is why Sakurai stated he would never work popularity wise. And the 3DS virtual console released doesn't change that imo.

Not trying to make you self conscious.


Wait, Capcom can have two characters, but Konami can't, even when one of them is just a returning veteran?

Why do so many people automatically assume that Dixie Kong will be 100% either a clone or a semi clone? Look at the fan-made movesets, if regular people can make her unique then a team of professionals should be able to do it too.

If Sakurai wants her in then he will give her an unique moveset(That's IF he wants her in which is a different story)