Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Tree Gelbman]

King Boo and Fawful for Smash.

They have good potential too. Fawful's chance might have been slept on though, but if we get Geno. I don't see why we couldn't get Fawful.

King Boo would be very interesting though. Especially if you ever did play up on rivalries in a story mode. Perfect for Luigi's rival.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Personality extends beyond just what a person is like, you can see it in how a character moves, attacks, reacts, etc. It's a pretty important thing for a Smash character to have as it also helps make them more fun to play, and in this regard the Mario cast is extremely rich, you could continue adding new Mario characters from now and until the end of the next decade and they'd still bring something unique to the cast.

Actual deep personality traits will never matter for Smash as we won't get to see them anyways, characters which have one strong defining trait that's at the absolute forefront will always shine much more, even if they're one dimensional in their own series. Some of the characters which show the most personality in Smash are the likes of Kirby, Dedede, Jigglypuff, Luigi, Wario and Donkey Kong, not exactly great examples of deep characters in their own right.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Not to mention that Ike and Zero Suit Samus were picked because he wanted someone from the series after they became more popular.

In addition, Greninja was also picked for the sake of "repping" X and Y, and if he was exactly the same except for being a Gen 5 Pokemon he also wouldn't have gotten in.There is Corrin as well who was chosen for the sake of representing an upcoming game.

 

[YoshiandToad]

If you play any spin off game, generally the characters reactions are all pretty much the same in any given situation.
The characters have had minimal voice acting to help portray or convey personalities through tone, cadence, etc.
They all relatively emote the same.

Yes the villains are more villainous.

Yes stand alone games help build the character, ie Luigi's Mansion, Wario Ware.
But when you have Mario, Luigi, Toad side by side they're the same character as far as reacting or motivations are concerned.

It's getting to the point I can't tell if this is legit or a parody argument.

I was going to ignore the Mario collecting coins comment because at the point I was sure you were ****ing with me but now I can't tell.

I guess all player characters are the same because they all have to beat the final boss. Link, Mario, Samus, Sonic, Megaman, same guys. All have the same motivation: stop bad guy from destroying their world(s).

 

[Tree Gelbman]

If you play any spin off game, generally the characters reactions are all pretty much the same in any given situation.
The characters have had minimal voice acting to help portray or convey personalities through tone, cadence, etc.
They all relatively emote the same.

Yes the villains are more villainous.

Yes stand alone games help build the character, ie Luigi's Mansion, Wario Ware.
But when you have Mario, Luigi, Toad side by side they're the same character as far as reacting or motivations are concerned.

Gee, because maybe. Those games don't require story or character beats at all. That's not what those games are about and to say the entire cast is the same because ''Well, they all do the same things in Mario Kart/Mario Party" is very flawed.

I''d let you slide if you were using that as someone like Daisy or a henchman character that doesn't get fleshed out in the main games, but then I also can't allow you this, because to say this is also untrue on the case of people like Waluigi.

Who is legitimately the only one of them who straight up and outright accuse other characters of cheating in the spin-offs. Waluigi as we know him is completely built off all the eccentric and weird **** he does that no one else does in those games.

So again. Argument is flawed and un-informed seeming.

 

[monadoboy]

Then why did they make up bull**** for Shulk?

They barely made up anything for Shulk. Speed, Shield and Buster (Enchant in XB) work like they would translated to Smash, with obvious penalties for balance. Jump and Smash are adaptations of the Monado Arts concept that fit the gameplay of Smash. The whole thing about the Monado is that it affects the flow of battle in whichever ways the wielder needs, precisely what it does in Smash. His Backslash, Air Slash, idle, run and jump animations are some of the most faithful animations to the source material in all of Smash.
I see the point and all but Shulk is an awful example, I really doubt he was picked to represent anything.

 

[Bowserlick]

Daisy or Waluigi should only get in Smash if Sakurai is going to solidify a design and direction for these characters (which so far, have a random bag of abilities from sports games). Please don't have Daisy use crystals.

Exercise time: Waluigi, Wario, Daisy and Nabbit get their own Subspace-style game akin to Super Mario Brothers 2. What abilities do they have in the game? Can these apply to Smash?

 

[Murlough]

All I'm saying is people ask for Daisy to have a unique move-set if she is included but people seem to hate the crystal idea, which is about as unique as it gets unless Sakurai does something crazy. What other character in Smash or Nintendo uses crystals like an Earth Bender? (inb4 Krystal..) I know it was only in one spin-off game but it was the furthest Daisy has ever been from Peach.5 and it was ****in' sick.

tl;dr make Daisy a Crystal-mancer

What other reasons are their for hating the Crystal idea other than "it was only in one spin-off game." (Not discrediting this argument I just am aware of it and it doesn't really add anything.)

"Opportunity to finally differentiate her from Peach."

Honestly, this is exactly why I don't think Daisy should be added to Smash.

That's fair. I don't like it either.

Could you come up with a moveset for her that's completely different to Peach? Sure, but if you NEED this hypotetical moveset in order for this character to be unique and have its own identity... Then the character just might not be unique enough on its own to be selected in the first place.

Easily....you don't have to even look at Peach while developing a move-set for her, just as you don't have to think about Mario when developing a move-set for Toad.

I don't really have anything to say about the second part of this because we just disagree. I think Daisy is unique. You do not. There really isn't anything else that can or should be said.

Besides, when creating a unique moveset for Daisy, you basically have to carefully dance around Peach's moveset so that she doesn't end up in the same territory. It becomes less "What should this character do as a fighter" and more "How do I make sure this character is not the same as this other one." At that point, is it really worth it? Remember that Chrom was not added for a similar reason.

No you don't. Thats the point. You don't need to dance around Peach at all. I could make 6 move-set's in a few hours for Daisy. Sakurai made a move-set for Greninja after seeing him for the first time in 24 hours. This isn't exactly a fair comparison but if some clown like me who isn't a game designer who does this for a living can do it so could Sakurai.

Yet, people argue Roy and Lucina are basically Marth. I don't know about the Chrom stuff but Roy and Lucina exist.

m was not added for a similar reason.Smash shouldn't be the game that proves a character is unique. The character should prove to be unique on its own before coming to Smash.

I completely agree but I still want Daisy and still think Sakurai would do more for her than Nintendo seems to care to. Roy was a nobody before Sakurai made him the fairly popular charcater he is today. And Roy didn't have a face before Sakurai released him. Daisy hypothetically could get something similar. Not saying it should or would happen, but I can dream.

 

[Just a random scrub]

If you play any spin off game, generally the characters reactions are all pretty much the same in any given situation.
The characters have had minimal voice acting to help portray or convey personalities through tone, cadence, etc.
They all relatively emote the same.

Yes the villains are more villainous.

Yes stand alone games help build the character, ie Luigi's Mansion, Wario Ware.
But when you have Mario, Luigi, Toad side by side they're the same character as far as reacting or motivations are concerned.

When you put it that way, it makes much more sense. Thanks for clearing that up.

But I just feel like pointing out that while they do emote the same in a lot of Merio sports games and the main platformers and stuff (which is kinda disappointing), I suggest checking out the RPGS (specifically stuff like Dream Team). In the RPGs, Mario and Luigi, while acting similar in some situations, emote and act very differently much of the time, to where you can't really call them the same. This also applies to most of the side characters, who als tend to react very differently to some of the more messed up **** that happens, and at many points in Dream Team, Mario gains some character development (not a lot, but it's still there), shows himself to be very emotional, displaying a large variety of emitons (but Luigi is still a more well-developed character than Mario, in all honesty)

Then again, though, IDK how the hell this thread became a discussion about the diversity of the Mario Cast. Guess I really do need E3 to come soon.

 

[Khao]

The Daisy Discussion that was never meant to last this long:
Most Daisy fans want her to be more than a Peach clone because we are SICK of people saying thats all Daisy is. Smash could in theory be an opportunity to finally differentiate her from Peach. Roy and Capt. Falcon are more well-known by most for Smash than they are in their actual series (as sad as that may be). Obviously, Daisy will always be a Mario character but in a Daisy fans head there is potential for her to finally stand out in this game because Sakurai is a god. Will it happen? Aliens are probably more likely to rule the world before Daisy gets that kind of treatment. I still want it though.

"Opportunity to finally differentiate her from Peach."

Honestly, this is exactly why I don't think Daisy should be added to Smash.

Could you come up with a moveset for her that's completely different to Peach? Sure, but if you NEED this hypotetical moveset in order for this character to be unique and have its own identity... Then the character just might not be unique enough on its own to be selected in the first place.

Besides, when creating a unique moveset for Daisy, you basically have to carefully dance around Peach's moveset so that she doesn't end up in the same territory. It becomes less "What should this character do as a fighter" and more "How do I make sure this character is not the same as this other one." At that point, is it really worth it? Remember that Chrom was not added for a similar reason.

Smash shouldn't be the game that proves a character is unique. The character should prove to be unique on its own before coming to Smash.

 

[ErenJager]

Would a Dragon Ball character that originated in a video game be considered possible?

 

[Bowserlick]

All I'm saying is people ask for Daisy to have a unique move-set if she is included but people seem to hate the crystal idea, which is about as unique as it gets unless Sakurai does something crazy. What other character in Smash or Nintendo uses crystals like an Earth Bender? (inb4 Krystal..) I know it was only in one spin-off game but it was the furthest Daisy has ever been from Peach.5 and it was ****in' sick.

tl;dr make Daisy a Crystal-mancer

What other reasons are their for hating the Crystal idea other than "it was only in one spin-off game." (Not discrediting this argument I just am aware of it and it doesn't really add anything.)

Daisy is loosely structured as a tomboyish Peach in the Mario Sport Spinoffs. Athletic, determined and quick to anger are qualities to start with in creating a moveset.

Certainly generating crystals would be unique. I do not see how they fit into her character development and outward representation. Seems like a random power that doesn't mesh with the established personality qualities she already has.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Would a Dragon Ball character that originated in a video game be considered possible?

No, because of the amount of licencing hoops Sakurai would need to jump through.

 

[Hinata]

If they added Viridi, medusa, and Hades I would not complain at all. In fact, i would be ecstatic.

TBH just Viridi would make me ecstatic.

I feel you there. I would love to see Viridi playable in Smash 5.

 

[ErenJager]

No, because of the amount of licencing hoops Sakurai would need to jump through.

So Nintendo can make a dedicated Famicon Classic Mini just for Jump video games, but it's impossible to license a single character in smash bros?

 

[Pazzo.]

You know something's up when Waluigi, a joke character, is wanted more than Daisy.

 

[TumblrFamous]

All I'm saying is people ask for Daisy to have a unique move-set if she is included but people seem to hate the crystal idea, which is about as unique as it gets unless Sakurai does something crazy. What other character in Smash or Nintendo uses crystals like an Earth Bender? (inb4 Krystal..) I know it was only in one spin-off game but it was the furthest Daisy has ever been from Peach.5 and it was ****in' sick.

tl;dr make Daisy a Crystal-mancer

What other reasons are their for hating the Crystal idea other than "it was only in one spin-off game." (Not discrediting this argument I just am aware of it and it doesn't really add anything.)

My personal problem with the crystals is that she is so much more associated with flowers. It'd be more likely for them to do something with that rather than relying on the one game, it'd totally confuse a lot of the people that never played Strikers: Charged.

There's a lot of toxicity in this thread right now. Y'all need to chill.

 

[Chandeelure]

Khao

Your signature is so funny lol.

 

[ErenJager]

It's happening.

Come on Goku is basically the mascot for a Nintendo console.

 

[Murlough]

Daisy is loosely structured as a tomboyish Peach in the Mario Sport Spinoffs. Athletic, determined and quick to anger are qualities to start with in creating a moveset.

Certainly generating crystals would be unique. I do not see how they fit into her character development and outward representation. Seems like a random power that doesn't mesh with the established personality qualities she already has.

Mario, a plumber who is heroic, brave, and somewhat sheepish when dealing with Peach, in the same exact series, can become giant, have ice powers, can throw fire, can grow a tail and fly, can become a cat and climb walls, can become a bee, can take over the body of creatures in his world, the list goes on and on.

But Daisy can't use crystals because her quick to anger and tomboyish personality wouldn't allow it? I may be misunderstanding you so please correct me if I am.

You know something's up when Waluigi, a joke character, is wanted more than Daisy.

Find me an official poll stating that. This very website says otherwise. Once again, this looks like a petty jab as opposed to anything productive and its completely unnecessary.

My personal problem with the crystals is that she is so much more associated with flowers. It'd be more likely for them to do something with that rather than relying on the one game, it'd totally confuse a lot of the people that never played Strikers: Charged.

There's a lot of toxicity in this thread right now. Y'all need to chill.

Yeah, thats fair. We've never see her moving plants though and no one seems to mind that idea (other than those who won't buy Smash 5 because Daisy is in it anyway). I mean the reveal trailer could use clips from Strikers even though I'm reaching really hard at this point.

 

[A Distant Demon]

RE: Shulk
Im still mad that Shield isnt armor and that buster isnt enchant

Im also mad that they have him just beat people over the head with it like it's a club. WHY DOES HE NOT TURN IT ON FOR HIS JAB. IT"S A ****ING SWORD.

You know something's up when Waluigi, a joke character, is wanted more than Daisy.

Why would something be up? Are people not allowed to like comedic characters?

Am I missing context again?

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Would a Dragon Ball character that originated in a video game be considered possible?

You gotta have the main character of the series in the game before including one-off side characters, no Goku, no Dragon Ball characters. Dragon Ball has so many characters too, it'd be a huge disservice to it if its sole representative wasn't even important or canon, at that point you're just shoehorning in a character based on its origins.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Yeah, thats fair. We've never see her moving plants though and no one seems to mind that idea (other than those who won't buy Smash 5 because Daisy is in it anyway). I mean the reveal trailer could use clips from Strikers even though I'm reaching really hard at this point.

You're reaching really hard

Personally, I like Captain Toad more than Waluigi and Daisy, and I like that he's become a prominent force in the games since the Galaxy games, so that's why I support him as a Mario character. But that's really it.

 

[ErenJager]

You gotta have the main character of the series in the game before including one-off side characters, no Goku, no Dragon Ball characters. Dragon Ball has so many characters too, it'd be a huge disservice to it if its sole representative wasn't even important or canon, at that point you're just shoehorning in a character based on its origins.

Well there's more then one Goku.

Have you met the multiverse of Dragon Ball Heroes? (A Bandai Namco game)

It has Xeno Goku (Video Game Goku) fight against Dragon Ball Super Goku (Anime Goku).

Xeno Goku has appeared on two exclusive 3DS titles as well.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Moments like this when I wish E3 could come sooner.

 

[Bowserlick]

Mario, a plumber who is heroic, brave, and somewhat sheepish when dealing with Peach, in the same exact series, can become giant, have ice powers, can throw fire, can grow a tail and fly, can become a cat and climb walls, can become a bee, can take over the body of creatures in his world, the list goes on and on.

But Daisy can't use crystals because her quick to anger and tomboyish personality wouldn't allow it? I may be misunderstanding you so please correct me if I am.

Mario has plenty of abilities throughout his series. Only a few were selected for Smash. Sakurai decided to make Mario an all-rounder in the game. Mario has a solution (maybe not the best one, but a solution) for nearly every kind of conflict. Thus, he has a projectile, meteor smash, multi-hit moves and a reflector. I would say this style exudes courage and ability to handle situations.

You want Smash to help define Daisy. I am not against that. The trick is to thread some of Daisy's moves with her personality and her potential gameplay. Making up moves is fine if the original move helps connect the dots. Orange crystals do not achieve that goal for me.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

What characters do you all support that you never really talk about? The reason behind why you never talk about them can be part of the discussion as well.


For me, those characters would be:
Meowth, Tails, King Boo, and to some extent Jack Frost.


I do occasionally talk about Jack Frost, but I often avoid the possibility because the addition of Jack Frost would mean no Joker, though I would be wildly excited for Jack Frost too.

Meowth I don't talk about much because I feel his playable ship sailed back in Melee. He hasn't become any more prominent since gen 1, and it feels like putting a lot of effort into him would definitely prove fruitless.

As for Tails, I just don't expect a second Sonic character.

King Boo just seems impractical. It'd be weird to make him skim across the ground like Bowser Jr in the clown car, and the idea of that doesn't sound good to me. I'll be excited if he's added still, but I can't imagine him in a way that looks and functions naturally in Smash.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I'm breaking into Hal/Bandai Namco right now, guys.

Don't worry, I got all of us Mario fans.

See you at E3 when I force them to reveal work has begun on Waluigi, Daisy, Captain Toad, Geno, Birdo, King Boo, Fawful, E. Gadd, Mallow, Koopa Troopa, and Honey Queen.

I got us, fam.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Man, May is dragging on. The next 2 weeks are going to go by super slow. And, instead of playing games from my Nintendo library during my free time, I have to do my USA taxes that I neglected to do for the full year.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I'm breaking into Hal/Bandai Namco right now, guys.

Don't worry, I got all of us Mario fans.

See you at E3 when I force them to reveal work has begun on Waluigi, Daisy, Captain Toad, Geno, Birdo, King Boo, Fawful, E. Gadd, Mallow, Koopa Troopa, and Honey Queen.

I got us, fam.

As someone who would like some of those characters.... Disgusting.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Daisy or Waluigi should only get in Smash if Sakurai is going to solidify a design and direction for these characters (which so far, have a random bag of abilities from sports games). Please don't have Daisy use crystals.

Exercise time: Waluigi, Wario, Daisy and Nabbit get their own Subspace-style game akin to Super Mario Brothers 2. What abilities do they have in the game? Can these apply to Smash?

Nabbit: isn't hurt by enemies or stage hazards but can still be knocked back. Could also carry two enemies in his bag.
Not sure this one could work due to the nature of Smash. Taking damage seems more vital than anything else but I guess the knock back could make it interesting?

The carrying two items/enemies could be an interesting mechanic though.

Daisy being able to double jump.
Not super great since literally every character currently in the game can do this. They could give her an extra jump to emphasis that ability but Kirby, Dedede, Puff, Pit, etc already can do that and more...

Waluigi I'm honestly stumped on. Since he's never been in a platformer outside being a Mario costume you'd be making stuff up for him.

His weirdness allowing him to swim through the air? Similar to Peach's float I guess. Higher jump? Luigi is redundant...I even like Waluigi more than the other three but I'm struggling to think of something unique that doesn't feel forced nor encroaches on anyone else's abilities in this SmB2 style game. Hell, I think he makes more sense to have the double jump than Daisy if I'm honest since it's a combination of his air swim ability and an exaggeration of Luigi's skills which is what he is.

But Run gave Daisy the ability not Waluigi so we work with what we have.

 

[Murlough]

Amy Rose because she's actively hated by many Sonic fans, let alone non-Sonic fans. Plus the idea is next to impossible when comparing her to Eggman, Tails, Knuckles, and Shadow.

Heihachi because....I don't know he just doesn't have much of a following in the Smash community. Like people recognize he's there and could happen but he just isn't really talked about.

Waluigi because I prefer Daisy and I haven't really seen a decent Waluigi discussion happen in here yet, unless its flaming Daisy too in which case I jump on that part of the discussion instead.

Pichu because my wild idea for a semi-unique move-set for Pichu would go over about as well as the idea of re-adding Young Link. At this point the Smash community largely would prefer they stay in Melee it seems, no matter what Sakurai could do for them. (Not saying I want Yink myself I'm just making an observation.)

 

[Fenriraga]

Man, May is dragging on. The next 2 weeks are going to go by super slow. And, instead of playing games from my Nintendo library during my free time, I have to do my USA taxes that I neglected to do for the full year.

Just ask Yoshi to help out. He always gets out of doing his taxes somehow.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

As someone who would like some of those characters.... Disgusting.

Disgustingly beautiful?

I know.

Honey Queen is gonna be OP. Move over Bayonetta and Cloud. We got a new tournament hog.

 

[Rockaphin]

See you at E3 when I force them to reveal work has begun on Waluigi, Daisy, Captain Toad, Geno, Birdo, King Boo, Fawful, E. Gadd, Mallow, Koopa Troopa, and Honey Queen.

I got us, fam.

*Looks at list*
*Doesn't see Paper Mario*

-Triggered-

...

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

What characters do you all support that you never really talk about? The reason behind why you never talk about them can be part of the discussion as well.


For me, those characters would be:
Meowth, Tails, King Boo, and to some extent Jack Frost.


I do occasionally talk about Jack Frost, but I often avoid the possibility because the addition of Jack Frost would mean no Joker, though I would be wildly excited for Jack Frost too.

Meowth I don't talk about much because I feel his playable ship sailed back in Melee. He hasn't become any more prominent since gen 1, and it feels like putting a lot of effort into him would definitely prove fruitless.

As for Tails, I just don't expect a second Sonic character.

King Boo just seems impractical. It'd be weird to make him skim across the ground like Bowser Jr in the clown car, and the idea of that doesn't sound good to me. I'll be excited if he's added still, but I can't imagine him in a way that looks and functions naturally in Smash.

Rabbid Mario (or really anyone from Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle), Sash Lilac, Agnes Oblige, Petey Piranha, King Boo, Baby Mario, Funky Kong, and Diskun.

Almost all of them because I have no reason to want them other than me liking them.

 

[Fenriraga]

Disgustingly beautiful?

I know.

Honey Queen is gonna be OP. Move over Bayonetta and Cloud. We got a new tournament hog.

While you're at it, don't forget to tell them to keep Pink Gold Honey Queen a secret character. Fans will be speechless when they find her!

 

[New_Dumal]

You know something's up when Waluigi, a joke character, is wanted more than Daisy.

Yeah... it's kind of a bad sign for Daisy and shows that maybe Smash already has more Mario characters than needed.
Imagine if by any chance we were discussing Candy Kong, The relevance is about the same level, but Mario is a more popular franchise with more spin-offs. In my opinion Bowser Jr was alreay pushing it a bit too far.

Paper Mario, C.Toad/Toad and Geno are the only characters that I personally would be ok to see (from Mario universe).
Daisy could be a option back when Rosalina doesn't existed. Now she is like "The third most famous lady from Mario games" (probably less popular than Pauline right now).
While I don't dislike the girl, I'd be quite shocked. to see Daisy as playable.

 

[StrangeMann]

I'm actually surprised there's so little discussion about Rhythm heaven reps/chorus men considering the history of the gematsu leak, smash 4 file leaks, and the new lack of limitations on the switch console. People seem to think decidueye, rex/pyra, ice climbers, and wolf are all super likely candidates but I've not seen people considering a rhythm heaven candidate as likely despite previous circumstances.
Even the leaks/rumors out and about don't really acknowledge rhythm heaven characters much.

 

[Chandeelure]

It would be cool if Tabuu returns as the Final Boss, fused with the Core or something lol.