Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Sonic Poke]

Pauline more unique than dixie? when dixie has a completely unique style of fighting and has nothing in common with diddy in her home games compared to Pauline who has no moveset potential apart from a hat, bag and parasol...?

Plus Pauline is just so unimportant when compared to dixie

I've finished DKC 2 twice and to me she has a lot in common to Diddy. Same size, a guitar, banana peels, both are monkeys, etc... The only things that goes for her are the ponytail and the bubblegun. She can also borrow some abilities from Tiny Kong.

Pauline has much more than a bag, a hat and a parasol. She has mini-marios, the hammer from DK Arcade, the fire creatures, barrels, and she can pull every thing from her bag. Cappy can be part of her set too. Also, young Cranky Kong can help her with some moves or maybe Final Smash.

She is not unimportant. She is from the first Mario and first DK game. She is huge on Nintendo history and has been brought back countless times on the Mario vs DK series. Until recently people were reluctant in bringing Dixie back. It only changed with tropical freeze. I love both and both are really important.

I mean both have potential. I just see more with Pauline.

 

[CWCPT00]

It's the first time Toad has been given the chance to show he's not so generic.
You could compare Toad to just about any character in the Mario series and draw some relatively decent comparisons.
Captain Toad, is essentially the Luigi's Mansion.
As Luigi was distanced from being "Green Mario" maybe Toad can now be distanced from "Generic Toad".
I will say that Captain Toad did a horrible job at giving the character personality.
It essentially carries over all the same personality traits he's always had without going very deep.

The game brought the character from being considered a tertiary or quaternary character to being a primary or main character.
Usually with main characters, the character is given a story, development, defining moments, unique abilities, personality.
However, sadly the game Captain Toad didn't accomplish all that it could for that character... but that didn't stop people from clamoring.

I’m I missing something, because I find Captain Toad one of the most charming and likeable characters that Nintendo has ever had. I believe that he has much more personality than the generic Toad and I’ve never heard someone say that the game done a horrible job at giving Captain Toad a personality as from what I’ve heard from reviews and everyone else, it’s the exact opposite.

Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker does have a story, it may be a simple story but a story nonetheless and I still think that it brought the best out of Captain Toad’s personality as well as Toadette’s.

Unique abilities? Isn’t manipulating the stages not good enough for you as that is something that Captain Toad can do in his games.

His game and the character itself was the reason why I want Captain Toad in Smash, I just feel that he can bring something different and exciting to the table.

 

[Opossum]

I've finished DKC 2 twice and to me she has a lot in common to Diddy. Same size, a guitar, banana peels, both are monkeys, etc... The only things that goes for her are the ponytail and the bubblegun. She can also borrow some abilities from Tiny Kong.

Pauline has much more than a bag, a hat and a parasol. She has mini-marios, the hammer from DK Arcade, the fire creatures, barrels, and she can pull every thing from her bag. Cappy can be part of her set too. Also, young Cranky Kong can help her with some moves or maybe Final Smash.

She is not unimportant. She is from the first Mario and first DK game. She is huge on Nintendo history and has been brought back countless times on the Mario vs DK series. Until recently people were reluctant in bringing Dixie back. It only changed with tropical freeze. I love both and both are really important.

I mean both have potential. I just see more with Pauline.

Playstyle-wise, Dixie could be our first dedicated grappler. She'd shoot out a gum ball with her Bubblegum Gun, which would explode on impact with either a surface or an opponent. The surface or foe would then become incredibly sticky. If it hit a foe directly, they'd be slower and have some more starting lag on their moves. If it hit the floor or a wall it'd become a trap that'd hold someone in place if they stepped in it.

This would then allow Dixie to approach and use her prehensile hair to grab the foe in any one of her hair-based command grabs.

A style like that is something I've always wanted to see in Smash, and Dixie fits the bill really well.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

''Sis" hasn't had a chance to appear in Mario spin-offs yet.

She's also the fact of Odyssey as much as Mario. She's the canon singer of it's award nominated song, her image of the red dress and hat was everywhere in advertistment, etc, etc.

Also being relegated to a spin-off that continued the themes of one of the most iconic Arcade games of all time is not a thing to call bad.

Again ''Sis" is just as important as Dixie. It's also hella disrespectful to be a Dixie fan and not acknowledge the fact that like Pauline she took a break and came back only just recently.

But they could have put her in spin-offs that whole time rather than not really doing anything with her for 30 years, Dixie at least had some minor appearances like in sluggers, donkey konga, the climber games, hoops, barrel blast etc. Dixie took a break in the 2000s but so did all the rest of the kongs that weren't DK and sometimes Diddy. And when Dixie returned she came back as a main character.

Idk man, she's still only featured in one stage, it's not like she's a main character like she was back in the day.

Once again, Pauline is historically significant but she's not really important to the Mario series anymore, at least not right now.

 

[ErenJager]

I’m I missing something, because I find Captain Toad one of the most charming and likeable characters that Nintendo has ever had. I believe that he has much more personality than the generic Toad and I’ve never heard someone say that the game done a horrible job at giving Captain Toad a personality as from what I’ve heard from reviews and everyone else, it’s the exact opposite.

Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker does have a story, it may be a simple story but a story nonetheless and I still think that it brought the best out of Captain Toad’s personality as well as Toadette’s.

Unique abilities? Isn’t manipulating the stages not good enough for you as that is something that Captain Toad can do in his games.

His game and the character itself was the reason why I want Captain Toad in Smash, I just feel that he can bring something different and exciting to the table.

When you described Captain Toad's personality, I changed the name Captain Toad to any other mario character, and the description fit.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Remember, odds are we may not get a Mario newcomer at all.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

That level is the level that Nintendo chose to push in all of the advertising for the game.

It's the one that's getting added to Captain Toad Treasure Tracker.

Again. She's the lead singer of the song they pushed and got nominated for awards for.

They hired a live action Pauline for this advertisement:

Nintendo clearly thinks she's important. They are pushing all the aspects of Odyssey she was heavily featured in.

Also I'd rather she have a spin-off series dedicated to the origins of Nintendo than ''Look I play sports too!" to spend her downtime from mainline Mario.

Because we know that's a double edged sword as we've discussed with Daisy beforehand.

 

[Opossum]

When you described Captain Toad's personality, I changed the name Captain Toad to any other mario character, and the description fit.

Waluigi is definitely the type to say "Time for Adventure!" and proudly march across a dangerous diorama land.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I've finished DKC 2 twice and to me she has a lot in common to Diddy. Same size, a guitar, banana peels, both are monkeys, etc... The only things that goes for her are the ponytail and the bubblegun. She can also borrow some abilities from Tiny Kong.

Pauline has much more than a bag, a hat and a parasol. She has mini-marios, the hammer from DK Arcade, the fire creatures, barrels, and she can pull every thing from her bag. Cappy can be part of her set too. Also, young Cranky Kong can help her with some moves or maybe Final Smash.

She is not unimportant. She is from the first Mario and first DK game. She is huge on Nintendo history and has been brought back countless times on the Mario vs DK series. Until recently people were reluctant in bringing Dixie back. It only changed with tropical freeze. I love both and both are really important.

I mean both have potential. I just see more with Pauline.

Both being monkey's really doesn't mean they'd play the same, we have a bunch of anime boys with swords and they play nothing alike. And dixie has completely different abilities than Diddy, her hair is her main weapon and it lets her glide and she's able to pick things up with it, of course this would allow Dixie to adopt a grappler playstyle, the glide also lends itself to making her a floatier, more aerial focused character. Diddy and Dixie don't play at all alike in DKC, if anything Diddy plays closer to DK

 

[Zeox]

Remember, odds are we may not get a Mario newcomer at all.

if with that we get characters from franchises that needs more reps then I'm ok with that, Donkey Kong and Metroid really needs more newcomers.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Remember, odds are we may not get a Mario newcomer at all.

I still really want Paper Mario, but after getting 2 newcomers in the last game I'm fine with them skipping out this time around. Plus that means it's more likely we could get both Dixie and K Rool and that would be the best possible solution for DK fans.

 

[Fenriraga]

It's the first time Toad has been given the chance to show he's not so generic.
You could compare Toad to just about any character in the Mario series and draw some relatively decent comparisons.
Captain Toad, is essentially the Luigi's Mansion.
As Luigi was distanced from being "Green Mario" maybe Toad can now be distanced from "Generic Toad".
I will say that Captain Toad did a horrible job at giving the character personality.
It essentially carries over all the same personality traits he's always had without going very deep.

The game brought the character from being considered a tertiary or quaternary character to being a primary or main character.
Usually with main characters, the character is given a story, development, defining moments, unique abilities, personality.
However, sadly the game Captain Toad didn't accomplish all that it could for that character... but that didn't stop people from clamoring.

What exactly did Captain Toad do to change that?

Being the main character? Wario's Woods, and arguably Mario 2 and 3D World since his role is just as significant as Mario Luigi and Peach.

Throwing Turnips? Peach says hi.

Using a Pickaxe? Literally functions exactly like the DK hammer, which is already in Smash.

Literally the only thing notworthy about Captain Toad over a regular Toad is he can't jump. That's literally it. A slimmer of a personality and such too, sure, but there have been plenty of Toads with those in the past.

Again, I think Toad is very likely. I just find the notion of "He didn't stand a chance until Captain Toad" to be absolutely silly.

 

[WaddleMatt]

everyone's thoughts on this?

My top pick would be Tap Trial Girl. A character based around dancing seems interesting and unique and we all know that's what Sakurai likes most.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Nice to finally have that number checked.

Though what games did Daisy appear in that Waluigi didn't? Besides SML & Mario Kart 7 that is.

Spoiler

1. Super Mario Land
2. NES Open Tournament Golf
3. Super Mario Bros. Print World
4. Super Mario Fushigi no Korokoro Party
5. Mario Kart Arcade GP
6. Mario Party Fushigi no Korokoro Catcher
7. Mario Party Whirling Carnival
8. StreetPass Mii Plaza
9. Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam
10. Miitomo
11. Hey! Pikmin
12. Super Mario Run
13. Wi-Fi Taiou Yakuman DS

So it's a mixture of obscure Mario games, less obscure Mario games, and non-Mario games.

 

[Opossum]

Spoiler

1. NES Open Tournament Golf
2. Super Mario Bros. Print World
3. Super Mario Fushigi no Korokoro Party
4. Mario Kart Arcade GP
5. Mario Party Fushigi no Korokoro Catcher
6. Mario Party Whirling Carnival
7. StreetPass Mii Plaza
8. Nintendo Badge Arcade
9. Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam
10. Miitomo
11. Hey! Pikmin
12. Mario Kart Arcade GP DX
13. Super Mario Run
14. Wi-Fi Taiou Yakuman DS

So it's a mixture of obscure Mario games, less obscure Mario games, and non-Mario games.

What are you talking about? There were definitely Waluigi badges in Badge Arcade. Hell, I have some of them.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

What are you talking about? There were definitely Waluigi badges in Badge Arcade. Hell, I have some of them.

I'm just going by Mario Wiki's appearance lists, so there could be some mistakes.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

What are you talking about? There were definitely Waluigi badges in Badge Arcade. Hell, I have some of them.

He also appears in Hey! Pikmin as a trophy just like Daisy

 

[NeonBurrito]

Mario Kart Arcade GP

Daisy isn't in Mario Kart Arcade GP. She appears in GP DX, where Waluigi also is in.
Waluigi is also in Hey! Pikmin.

Are you sure this list is legit?

 

[Moon Monkey]

I just want King K. Rool and Dixie (or a Dixie & Kiddy tag-team) and i can die happy.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Daisy isn't in Mario Kart Arcade GP. She appears in GP DX, where Waluigi also is in.
Waluigi is also in Hey! Pikmin.

Are you sure this list is legit?

Daisy is in GP as a non-playable cameo.

You can check the lists if you want, like I said there could be mistakes but I wouldn't know them.

 

[KingBroly]

Pauline wouldn't be a good choice unless you made her a Mario Minis character, which Sakurai likely won't do cuz he doesn't spin-offs.

If you make Daisy a Mario Sports character, you're better off doing Waluigi because people want Waluigi.

And if the first party stuff is disappointing, it means more DLC to sell you

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I just want King K. Rool and Dixie (or a Dixie & Kiddy tag-team) and i can die happy.

Honestly I hate the tag-team idea a lot, it's a disservice to both characters and if they're gonna have different movesets anyway there's no real reason to stick them together.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Sakurai doesn't do spin-offs.

*glares at Wario and Yoshi*

Yes. This is clearly accurate.

Honestly I hate the tag-team idea a lot, it undervalues both characters and if they're gonna have different movesets anyway there's no real reason to stick them together.

I for one very much understand WHY though.

Especially if you're someone who can harp on about how ''THE STARTER TYPES ARE IMPORTANT GAMEPLAY ELEMENTS ON POKEMON."

Uhhh, well so is the partner system in the Donkey Kong Country games. I can very much see why Sakurai originally intended a Diddy/Dixie combo.

And it'd have been truthful to the game that made them both such break outs.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I keep seeing a lot about “This character is so important!” or “this character appears everywhere!”

It really doesn’t matter how important they are or what they’re featured in if they don’t have gameplay ideas to go with them. When you’re talking about these characters, tell me what could make them fun to play as.

Frankly, I don’t give a damn what makes the characters important if the gameplay isn’t there. Smash isn’t a gallery, it’s a video game that we play to have fun in.

Give me fun ideas for characters. That’s more convincing than anything if that’s what you’re trying to do.

 

[Murlough]

If you make Daisy a Mario Sports character, you're better off doing Waluigi because people want Waluigi.

Boi. There are people who want one, the other, neither, or both. Please find me an official poll made to the world that says Waluigi is wanted significantly more than Daisy.

"Because people want Waluigi." People want a lot of things. People kept doing this with Decidueye too until someone actually looked up an official poll about it.

 

[WaddleMatt]

And I am stuck here trying to understand why people want Waluigi and/or Daisy in the first place. Give us a Mario character which has actually been in the main series.

Do not give me the Super Mario Land argument because she could basically be swapped out with Peach and no one would be able to tell the difference.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Honestly I hate the tag-team idea a lot, it's a disservice to both characters and if they're gonna have different movesets anyway there's no real reason to stick them together.

I disagree. Especially when it comes to showing off what the DKC games are about. So there is a reference to call back to and content to go off of.

It's all a matter of executution really. It wouldn't be Ice Climber tag team either, more like Pokemon Trainer in Brawl where down B could switch which kong is the lead kong and they'd have differrent specials depending on the lead kong.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

And I am stuck here trying to understand why people want Waluigi and/or Daisy in the first place. Give us a Mario character which has actually been in the main series.

Do not give me the Super Mario Land argument because she could basically be swapped out with Peach and no one would be able to tell the difference.

Because most people aren't wanting a mainline rep when they talk about Daisy or Waluigi for Smash?

They're wanting to represent Mario Kart. Mario Party, Mario Tennis, Golf, Sluggers, Etc.

You know the sports spin-offs and what not that have made Nintendo just as much money and attention as the mainline Mario games?

 

[Murlough]

And I am stuck here trying to understand why people want Waluigi and/or Daisy in the first place. Give us a Mario character which has actually been in the main series.

Do not give me the Super Mario Land argument because she could basically be swapped out with Peach and no one would be able to tell the difference.

So, because she and Waluigi haven't been in a main series game (because **** the one she was in I guess) she and Waluigi should never be allowed a place in Smash.

Boy, I sure am glad no one is making up imaginary rules in here.

Sakurai has added Cloud Strife and Ryu and somehow actually think spin-off games are unworthy? What kinda back ***wards logic am I seeing.

To answer the question: because I like her. She's fun and could legitimately be a great character but no one at Nintendo is willing to touch her with a ten-foot poll and apparently she has a fair amount of internet hate because she happens to exist. I hate seeing characters get thrown to the wayside in favor or adding in new ones. Flesh out the old characters and THEN develop new ones, in my opinion. Rosalina is great though I like her.

 

[T-Hell]

And I am stuck here trying to understand why people want Waluigi and/or Daisy in the first place. Give us a Mario character which has actually been in the main series.

Do not give me the Super Mario Land argument because she could basically be swapped out with Peach and no one would be able to tell the difference.

Well, I want Waluigi because I love the character a lot, despite knowing his chances are very low. Sue me. The same could be said about Bandana Dee.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Whoa whoa whoa.

Ryu and Cloud Strife are gaming icons the likes of Daisy and Waluigi both are not.

The sports spin-offs and Mario spin-offs are great games and deserve representation, but let's not say that Mr. Fighting Game and one of the most iconic JRPG faces deserved it less than the Mario spin-offs.

 

[Luminario]

Pauline wouldn't be a good choice unless you made her a Mario Minis character, which Sakurai likely won't do cuz he doesn't spin-offs.

Mario characters often use elements from spin-off games. Wario, Yoshi, Peach, and Jr all have varying levels of spin-off inspiration.

If you make Daisy a Mario Sports character, you're better off doing Waluigi because people want Waluigi.

People want Daisy too. They're both of equal importance to Mario spin-offs and likely have the same levels of popularity, otherwise they wouldn't be put in like every spin-off game.

And I am stuck here trying to understand why people want Waluigi and/or Daisy in the first place. Give us a Mario character which has actually been in the main series.

Do not give me the Super Mario Land argument because she could basically be swapped out with Peach and no one would be able to tell the difference.

Cause they like the characters?

 

[P.Kat]

if with that we get characters from franchises that needs more reps then I'm ok with that, Donkey Kong and Metroid really needs more newcomers.

So does Star Fox as well at least give us Krystal with her signature Bo Staff with various elemental attacks and agile movements and speed that Foxes are known for based on Star Fox Adventures, you can easily give her a dynamic moveset.

 

[Murlough]

Whoa whoa whoa.

Ryu and Cloud Strife are gaming icons the likes of Daisy and Waluigi both are not.

The sports spin-offs and Mario spin-offs are great games and deserve representation, but let's not say that Mr. Fighting Game and one of the most iconic JRPG faces deserved it less than the Mario spin-offs.

That isn't what I'm saying. I'm saying Sakurai is willing to pay extra money for third-parties (such as Cloud and Ryu) but somehow people believe that Sakurai for some reason won't go anywhre near spin-offs. It makes no sense.

I'm not saying anything at all about "iconness" or whatever. I know Daisy and Waluigi aren't as iconic as Cloud or Ryu. I wasn't comparing that.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Hypothetical.

Say Waluigi and Daisy both got in. They shared a roster spot. You choose which one you play, but they both have the same moveset that is both unique enough to represent the spin-offs, but generic enough that it fits both of them.

How would everyone feel then?

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I definitely feel a rhythm heaven rep will happen

I mean after all a rep got scraped from smash 4 for the same reason ice climbers got kicked

By the way why did he pick chorus kids over rhythm heaven girl?

 

[Opossum]

Hypothetical.

Say Waluigi and Daisy both got in. They shared a roster spot. You choose which one you play, but they both have the same moveset that is both unique enough to represent the spin-offs, but generic enough that it fits both of them.

How would everyone feel then?

Not great, to be honest. A moveset that could fit both would need to be very generic, considering the differences in things like build between the two. And Waluigi is brimming with his own style and personality that doesn't work well with a more general mold.

So basically I'd feel like Waluigi would deserve more than that because any moveset that you could give him that'd also work for Daisy just wouldn't feel like Waluigi.

 

[Murlough]

Hypothetical.

Say Waluigi and Daisy both got in. They shared a roster spot. You choose which one you play, but they both have the same moveset that is both unique enough to represent the spin-offs, but generic enough that it fits both of them.

How would everyone feel then?

I would be cool with it but the best they could probably do is make them clones of each other like Pit and Dark Pit. Waluigi and Daisy do not share similar proportions and would require different hurtboxes.

I think giving them two separate slots would really not be that much different than making them costumes of each other. Some other people apparently detest that idea so there will be backlash.

EDIT: Actually....Opossom made a really good point. Rip. I would probably still take it since it would be better than nothing by a mile but Waluigi would kinda get the short end of the stick.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

I just want King K. Rool and Dixie (or a Dixie & Kiddy tag-team) and i can die happy.

How about Dixie Kong & King K. Rool Tag Team?

 

[Moon Monkey]

How about Dixie Kong & King K. Rool Tag Team?

Ummm... Yikes.
LOL!