Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MopedOfJustice]

Oh goddammit did I walk in here to see "Mimikyu is a villain" again despite everything other than the anime trying to say the opposite? Including the Mimikyu song and the Z Move?

It makes sense then that they're using Wario as the point of comparison when in basically everything other than SSE he's not a sinister villain nearly as much as a greedy slob.
He was given a fart attack for a reason.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It makes sense then that they're using Wario as the point of comparison when in basically everything other than SSE he's not a sinister villain nearly as much as a greedy slob.
He was given a fart attack for a reason.

That's because Wario's marketed differently in Japan and outside Japan. While the Mimikyu song was only in Japan, everything else was outside of it too iirc with only the anime having Mimikyu as a little ****. Every other piece of promotion depicts it as a lonely Pokemon that disguises itself so it can be loved

 

[SchAlternate]

Real talk, they should already replace Goldeen with Magikarp as the dud Pokemon.

Or better yet, keep Goldeen, but give it a one in a hundred chance of using Drill Horn and instantly K.O.ing an opponent.

 

[Radical Bones]

Star Allies was rather lackluster in my opinion, nothing that interesting or new was added to it (aside from the final boss and all these new playable characters), so I hope the next mainline Kirby game changes up the formula quite a bit.

Or they could just make Airide 2; I'd be ok with that.

I could not agree more. It was so boring, as someone who has played the last like a million Kirby games.

Also, I'm all for easy platforming, but mix it up with a challenge everynow and then. Take a look at Yoshi's Woolly World for example.

 

[Pacack]

Question for everyone here - how likely do you guys think a Mr. Game and Watch, R.O.B., or Duck Hunt style historical character is for this game?

Also, new avatar and signature. Does it look okay?

 

[Zinith]

Question for everyone here - how likely do you guys think a Mr. Game and Watch, R.O.B., or Duck Hunt style historical character is for this game?

Also, new avatar and signature. Does it look okay?

I don't see why not...

I like it. Where does it come from? As for me I'm gonna keep Kart Fighter Yoshi for a while

 

[Radical Bones]

Question for everyone here - how likely do you guys think a Mr. Game and Watch, R.O.B., or Duck Hunt style historical character is for this game?

Also, new avatar and signature. Does it look okay?

I think we will definitely get a 'hardware' style character. I literally have no idea what it could be, though. But there's plenty of obscure Nintendo hardware out there.

Maybe the 'Power Glove' and it could walk like Glover and use attacks from the two compatible games, Super Glove Ball and Bad Street Brawler.

 

[Pacack]

I don't see why not...

I like it. Where does it come from? As for me I'm gonna keep Kart Fighter Yoshi for a while

Do you have any clue who might be chosen?

The avatar comes from the Pac & Pal artwork, and the signature comes from some anniversary artwork.

I think we will definitely get a 'hardware' style character. I literally have no idea what it could be, though. But there's plenty of obscure Nintendo hardware out there.

Maybe the 'Power Glove' and it could walk like Glover and use attacks from the two compatible games, Super Glove Ball and Bad Street Brawler.

Do you think the focus is on representing hardware, specifically, or do you think it's more focused on Nintendo's history in general? I've always been partial to the idea of a Hanafuda character to represent the character's origins or Sheriff as Nintendo's first video game character. Diskun would be a good hardware character, though.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Question for everyone here - how likely do you guys think a Mr. Game and Watch, R.O.B., or Duck Hunt style historical character is for this game?

Also, new avatar and signature. Does it look okay?

Almost a guarantee.

 

[Zinith]

Do you have any clue who might be chosen?

One person earlier in this thread suggested a character based on the power pad, and I think it was the runner from World Class Track Meet. But there can always be the Dance Aerobics character (although she is kinda similar to Wii Fit Trainer) and the pig from Short Order.

 

[Pacack]

One person earlier in this thread suggested a character based on the power pad, and I think it was the runner from World Class Track Meet. But there can always be the Dance Aerobics character (although she is kinda similar to Wii Fit Trainer) and the pig from Short Order.

Unfortunately, Nintendo doesn't own the rights to World Class Track Meet, so that one probably isn't happening. Same with Dance Aerobics.

Short Order is owned by Nintendo, but it's hardly as significant as any of the previous historical characters...

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Do you have any clue who might be chosen?

Well one thing we need to keep in mind that "historical value" isn't the sole reason we had. In addition to that, they were also included as "surprise characters", who would be unexpected newcomers absolutely no one could guess. While some characters, like Bowser Jr., Robin, Shulk, Villager, etc. could be feasibly predicted, there was nothing to suggest that these three would be playable (ignoring the Duck Hunt ducks trophy in Melee). This gives them the "surprise character" trait, as they are meant to surprise players when they are unlocked (or leaked). With this in mind, a character like this is pretty difficult to predict. I suppose that's the point

If I did have to wager a guess, and assuming we don't get another fighter to represent the fighting style I'd place my bets on Fighter Hayabusa or Star Man from Pro Wrestling. It's a pretty iconic NES game with a lot of historical value, and the concept of a wrestling playstyle opens up for interesting concepts. Plus, above all else, they haven't done anything in previous Smash games to lead fans to predicting their inclusion. The perfect "surprise character" if you ask me.

By no means am I saying they're a "shoe-in", as there are probably plenty of other characters that fit the criteria (Ossan from Golf comes to mind considering he has the legacy of the late Iwata at his side), those are just my thoughts.

 

[Deathcarter]

While nowhere near as successful as , I think Monita is a good choice for a hardware rep as her whole game is about representing the Wii U gamepad.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

While nowhere near as successful as , I think Monita is a good choice for a hardware rep as her whole game is about representing the Wii U gamepad.

Thanks. Monita is actually one of my most wanted newcomers now.

 

[Pacack]

Well one thing we need to keep in mind that "historical value" isn't the sole reason we had. In addition to that, they were also included as "surprise characters", who would be unexpected newcomers absolutely no one could guess. While some characters, like Bowser Jr., Robin, Shulk, Villager, etc. could be feasibly predicted, there was nothing to suggest that these three would be playable (ignoring the Duck Hunt ducks trophy in Melee). This gives them the "surprise character" trait, as they are meant to surprise players when they are unlocked (or leaked). With this in mind, a character like this is pretty difficult to predict. I suppose that's the point

If I did have to wager a guess, and assuming we don't get another fighter to represent the fighting style I'd place my bets on Fighter Hayabusa or Star Man from Pro Wrestling. It's a pretty iconic NES game with a lot of historical value, and the concept of a wrestling playstyle opens up for interesting concepts. Plus, above all else, they haven't done anything in previous Smash games to lead fans to predicting their inclusion. The perfect "surprise character" if you ask me.

By no means am I saying they're a "shoe-in", as there are probably plenty of other characters that fit the criteria (Ossan from Golf comes to mind considering he has the legacy of the late Iwata at his side), those are just my thoughts.

Ossan would be a good one.

I don't know, I feel like the historical value of those characters is a more important than a lot of people seem to be implying. Game and Watch games were Nintendo's first major commercial success, R.O.B. saved the video game market, and Duck Hunt represents Light Gun games, which were Nintendo's first electronic toys before even the Color TV Games (the Laser Clay Shooting System brought the company out of debt in the 1970s, and they were extremely closely related to the home versions.)

It's not an exaggeration to say that each of these characters represents something that changed Nintendo forever.

The only characters I can think of that are that important who aren't already in Smash Bros. would be Sheriff, their first character, or Daitoryo/President, their hanafuda card mascot who was based off of Napoleon.

While nowhere near as successful as , I think Monita is a good choice for a hardware rep as her whole game is about representing the Wii U gamepad.

May I ask why you group Wii Fit Trainer with them? I've never seen them as representing hardware, so much as the significant impact that those pieces of hardware had on Nintendo's history.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

I think Monita would be interesting. Definitely a left field choice that’d make people go “Huh?”

How would she work though? Any ideas? I’d just love a Nintendo Land stage. I’ve wanted a theme park stage for so long, and I’m still holding out hope for World Bowser.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Real talk, they should already replace Goldeen with Magikarp as the dud Pokemon.

Or better yet, keep Goldeen, but give it a one in a hundred chance of using Drill Horn and instantly K.O.ing an opponent.

Even better, have Magicarp turn into a Gyarados now and then out of nowhere after splashing around for a minute, and mowing down your opponents.

Or have him be able to deal heavy damage and knockback suddenly on an opponent out of sheer rage if being hit:

 

[Pacack]

I think Monita would be interesting. Definitely a left field choice that’d make people go “Huh?”

How would she work though? Any ideas? I’d just love a Nintendo Land stage. I’ve wanted a theme park stage for so long, and I’m still holding out hope for World Bowser.

I'd be down for Monita, but I'm not sure if she's worth taking the time to work on...

That said, a Nintendo Land stage would be sick.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Better yet, have Magicarp turn into a Gyarados now and then out of nowhere after splashing around for a minute, and mowing down your opponents.

Or even have him be able to deal heavy damage and knockback suddenly on an opponent out of sheer rage if being hit:

I think the main reason to keep Goldeen as the genuinely useless one is that it would be better if Magikarp used Flail (or maybe Struggle), and if it KOs a player it gets the exp to evolve.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

I'd be down for Monita, but I'm not sure if she's worth taking the time to work on...

That said, a Nintendo Land stage would be sick.

Right?! Fighting on the train that makes stops at each attraction? Here. For. It.

The stage I want more than anything is a Nintendo Badge Arcade stage.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I try not to think too hard about hardware/wtf/what have you characters. It's fun to try guessing the roster, but it's also fun to be completely taken by surprise by that one character you didn't see coming (well, in some cases...)

I'm personally hoping for Sheriff, but he'd be more of a pleasant surprise than someone I actually saw coming.

 

[Pacack]

I try not to think too hard about hardware/wtf/what have you characters. It's fun to try guessing the roster, but it's also fun to be completely taken by surprise by that one character you didn't see coming (well, in some cases...)

I'm personally hoping for Sheriff, but he'd be more of a pleasant surprise than someone I actually saw coming.

Honestly, I'm starting to outright predict him. The fact that he's already had an assist trophy in Smash speaks volumes.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Ossan would be a good one.

I don't know, I feel like the historical value of those characters is a more important than a lot of people seem to be implying. Game and Watch games were Nintendo's first major commercial success, R.O.B. saved the video game market, and Duck Hunt represents Light Gun games, which were Nintendo's first electronic toys before even the Color TV Games (the Laser Clay Shooting System brought the company out of debt in the 1970s, and they were extremely closely related to the home versions.)

It's not an exaggeration to say that each of these characters represents something that changed Nintendo forever.

The only characters I can think of that are that important who aren't already in Smash Bros. would be Sheriff, their first character, or Daitoryo/President, their hanafuda card mascot who was based off of Napoleon.

A hanafuda card mascot would be pretty interesting ngl

That said, these are fair points. Pro Wrestling doesn't necessarily have the legacydid and didn't do anything important for their history, at least on their scale. Unless you count the "A winner is you!" quote.

 

[Radical Bones]

Do you think the focus is on representing hardware, specifically, or do you think it's more focused on Nintendo's history in general? I've always been partial to the idea of a Hanafuda character to represent the character's origins or Sheriff as Nintendo's first video game character. Diskun would be a good hardware character, though.

Personally I see the pattern as a 'hardware' character but you can also argue that it represents a part of Nintendo's history. The Hanafuda idea is pretty solid, but it all depends if that is something Sakurai has even considered. Diskun could be cool too, as would Sherrif but he might not want to take the 'oldest character' away from Game and Watch/Pac.

 

[BlondeLombax]

She would be awesome, but there's no way it would happen. Sakurai wouldn't even add Takamaru because of how unpopular he would be internationally.

Actually, not entirely out of the question. She was considered to be on the Melee roster, but was set aside due to her lack of relevance in Japan. If the likes of Lucas, Marth, and Roy are anything special (being the protagonists of a bunch of Japan-only titles, and proving themselves very popular among the fans), then I'd say that she's got a fair shot, though not as much as Takamura since we actually managed to get his game, as well as a special spot in Nintendo Land.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I hate to admit this, and normally I would never say this out loud to a group of speculators, but I almost always hope we don't get a new hardware character unless there is one that is an obvious fit. As my own creativity has its limits, I can't often come up with good ideas for an out-of-left-field hardware character, so the concept just sounds gross to me. I am always pleasantly surprised by the results of hardware characters, and I'm sure I will be if it happens this time. But due to my own reluctance to visualize one of these characters personally, I'll never actively hope for a new one.

 

[MrRoidley]

Real talk, they should already replace Goldeen with Magikarp as the dud Pokemon.

I have this Magikarp concept that it's like Goldeen, but there's a slim chance it'll suddenly evolve into Gyarados and KO everyone

I think Monita would be interesting. Definitely a left field choice that’d make people go “Huh?”

How would she work though? Any ideas? I’d just love a Nintendo Land stage. I’ve wanted a theme park stage for so long, and I’m still holding out hope for World Bowser.

I think they could take cues from the various minigames in Nintendo Land: like her neutral special could be the Shurikens from Takamaru, her side special the Yoshi cart or the toyish Blue Falcon, her Up Special the Balloon Fight one (but more "wind-based" than Villager's) or maybe even Samus's ship, I think there are a lot of possibilities

And yeah a Nintendo Land stage would be wonderful. It was one of my most wanted things for SSB4, and I guess it would capture really well the Nintendo-crossover feeling of Smash

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I shave this Magikarp concept that it's like Goldeen, but there's a slim chance it'll suddenly evolve into Gyarados and KO everyone

I've always thought of the possibility that its sort of like Wobbufet in the sense that hitting it makes it do more. It's just a magikarp floppin' around, but if you hit enough times and piss it off, it'll evolve and decimate anything in its path.

 

[Pacack]

A hanafuda card mascot would be pretty interesting ngl

That said, these are fair points. Pro Wrestling doesn't necessarily have the legacydid and didn't do anything important for their history, at least on their scale. Unless you count the "A winner is you!" quote.

Feel free to check out my support threads for Daitoryo and Sheriff, if you're interested.

I guess Diskun can be argued to be important to, but he's not on the same level, honestly.

Other things that are extremely important to Nintendo's history are:

Nintendo branching out from playing cards into other ventures. This was marked by Hiroshi Yamauchi aquiring a license to use Disney characters in his cards, but good luck using Mickey as a historical character.

Their Ultra series of toys, which includes the Ultra Hand and Ultra Machine (designed by Gunpei Yokoi), but that doesn't have a character associated strongly with it. I would suggest using a toy-era mascot like one of their two Joker designs from their playing cards to represent the transition, but that's obscure even for me.

Reference, since i'm sure it's necessary. The first one is more common, for sure, but the latter still shows up frequently. Alternatively, there's always the Kangaroo from the Mini Kangaroo series, even if that is a bit after the Ultra series of toys. Though there was an Australian Ultra Hand release that used a similar looking Kangaroo, which could arguably be the same thing.

Spoiler: Large Images

Nintendo trying to use Popeye characters for arcade games, which failed and led to the creation of Mario, Pauline, and Donkey Kong. Ultimately, Nintendo acquired a license to use Popeye characters, and NoA actually was in charge of Popeye products. I suppose Popeye would work as a historical inclusion, but he's also...you know, Popeye, a cartoon character.​

Any other ideas?

Personally I see the pattern as a 'hardware' character but you can also argue that it represents a part of Nintendo's history. The Hanafuda idea is pretty solid, but it all depends if that is something Sakurai has even considered. Diskun could be cool too, as would Sherrif but he might not want to take the 'oldest character' away from Game and Watch/Pac.

That's fair. Do we have any official statements on why any of those three were chosen? If there's a statement by Sakurai of why they're included, that would help.

I don't think including a character older than Game and Watch would diminish his legacy, though. His games were the first major Nintendo success, and that means a lot. By major, I mean that they went from barely breaking a million on certain games to selling 43.4 million Game and Watch units. It depends on how one interprets it, though.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Any other ideas?

Another idea I've had for a retro rep is Diskun, mascot of the Famicom.

 

[Deleted member]

On Fire Emblem: I think Lyn has a great shot at DLC. The base roster is probably too late for the CYL poll to matter, but IS almost certainly would back her after that. I think Celica has a chance at the base roster, but FE fatigue might make Sakurai wary of adding her whereas that issue is lessened for DLC fighters in which case her time would've passed. And imo FE16's lord's chances are overrated. Corrin was added because Smash 4's dev team liked her, not because of promotion, so I have no idea why people assume we'll get a character we know nothing about.

On Pokemon: I'd absolutely love it if we got Nihilego. It's my favorite gen 7 Pokemon (sorry Lycanroc), but I don't think it'll happen. A dark horse for sure though. As the premier UB, it could still have been given to Sakurai alongside other contenders like Lycanroc, the starters, Mimikyu, and Tapu Koko. Maybe someone else can cue me in on just how much merch and promotional material Nihilego has since I haven't been following Pokemon for almost a year now, although I might've got USUM if Nihilego just got Earth Power in that game !

Speaking of merchandise, the sheer amount of Lycanroc/Rockruff and Mimikyu merch is starting to make me think Lycanroc or Mimikyu might've been chosen over Decidueye who has comparatively little. If Decidueye was chosen for Smash you would think TPC would try to market it more heavily, but it seems they're just gonna let Rowlett take the spotlight since it's proven to be popular. I'm still leaning towards the archer owl because its concept is more immediately eye catching but you never know.

 

[Koopaul]

The biggest problem Monita faces is that she floats and doesn't touch the ground. How's she gonna trip on banana peels or slide on ice? Then again, Junior's Clown Car floats around too and they were able to make it ride alone the ground.

 

[Pacack]

Another idea I've had for a retro rep is Diskun, mascot of the Famicom.

I'd love to see him, but I'm also not sure if he's important enough compared to the ones we currently have.

I mean, he was an interesting footnote in Nintendo's Famicom history, but he didn't really impact Nintendo overall much. Then again, if it's actually a hardware representative and not a historical one, then he's one of the only choices left.

On Fire Emblem: I think Lyn has a great shot at DLC. The base roster is probably too late for the CYL poll to matter, but IS almost certainly would back her after that. I think Celica has a chance at the base roster, but FE fatigue might make Sakurai wary of adding her whereas that issue is lessened for DLC fighters. And imo FE16's lord's chances are overrated. Corrin was added because Smash 4's dev team liked her, not because of promotion, so I have no idea why people assume we'll get a character we know nothing about.

On Pokemon: I'd absolutely love it if we got Nihilego. It's my favorite gen 7 Pokemon (sorry Lycanroc), but I don't think it'll happen. A dark horse for sure though. As the premier UB, it could still have been given to Sakurai alongside other contenders like Lycanroc, the starters, Mimikyu, and Tapu Koko. Maybe someone else can cue me in on just how much merch and promotional material Nihilego has since I haven't been following Pokemon for almost a year now, although I might've got USUM if Nihilego just got Earth Power in that game !

Speaking of merchandise, the sheer amount of Lycanroc/Rockruff and Mimikyu merch is starting to make me think Lycanroc or Mimikyu might've been chosen over Decidueye who has comparatively little. If Decidueye was chosen for Smash you would think TPC would try to market it more heavily, but it seems they're just gonna let Rowlett take the spotlight since it's proven to be popular. I'm still leaning towards the archer owl because its concept is more immediately eye catching but you never know.

Honestly, my money's on Lycanroc. He's being pushed in the anime, he got three separate forms this gen, and he seems designed to be popular.

The only potential issue there is if him holding items would be difficult, and I don't think that would be enough to stop Sakurai.

 

[MBRedboy31]

The biggest problem Monita faces is that she floats and doesn't touch the ground. How's she gonna trip on banana peels or slide on ice? Then again, Junior's Clown Car floats around too and they were able to make it ride alone the ground.

Various other characters like Meta Knight, Charizard, Rosalina, Palutena, Cloud, Mewtwo, etc. float above the ground while dashing and can still trip on banana peels and slip on ice while dashing like that, so that isn’t an issue.

 

[Edgelord_197]

The only thing that would stop Lyn from coming to DLC is if she comes back as an assist trophy

 

[SchAlternate]

Obviously, the next "historical" character will be the Power Glove, but it'll be an overpowered clone of Master Hand.

EDIT: I've got to say, I'm amazed absolutely no one thought of making a mod of that.

 

[Deleted member]

The only thing that would stop Lyn from coming to DLC is if she comes back as an assist trophy

While in Lyn's case you could argue that after the CYL poll IS would ask Sakurai to make sure she wouldn't be an AT to make room for DLC, I don't think being an AT would mean the end for any character's DLC hopes. I know I'm super biased with Lyn, but I don't know why a reskin or cutting/replacing the AT altogether wouldn't be on the table if a character was prime for DLC. If say, Ashley won the Smash Ballot, why would Sakurai refrain from adding her as DLC just because of an Assist Trophy? It just doesn't make all that much sense to not upgrade the character's status at that point. Kind of an extreme example but it gets the point across.

 

[Amazon Pandora]

I just thought of something, most people assume that recent games mostly translate into a new character, but what if Sakurai will purely use the smash ballot for character picks and no longer heavily rely on advertising? Most people voted inklings on the ballot did they not? I mean in the case of skye not being contacted equates to a disconfirmation (it could also mean nothing), I can see the heavy use of the ballot to be a reason if Rex isn't in and let's say Elma is.

 

[Zippo]

You know, the more I think about it, the more Simon really does make sense. He's had over 30 years of history with Nintendo, he's the most recognizable and popular character in his franchise, he's made many appearances over the years, most of which have appeared on Nintendo systems, and he would bring a very interesting moveset to the table. That's to say nothing of Sakurai's fondness for Castlevania.

I say, Mr. Belmont has more than paid his dues. Put him in.

Also, the music selection would be sooooooo ****ing good.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Obviously, the next "historical" character will be the Power Glove, but it'll be an overpowered clone of Master Hand.

EDIT: I've got to say, I'm amazed absolutely no one thought of making a mod of that.

........imagine if that replaced R.O.B.'s side special
it could be like Snake's Remote Missile in Brawl. Would be hilarious lmao