Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[BlondeLombax]

I just thought of something, most people assume that recent games mostly translate into a new character, but what if Sakurai will purely use the smash ballot for character picks and no longer heavily rely on advertising? Most people voted inklings on the ballot did they not? I mean in the case of skye not being contacted equates to a disconfirmation (it could also mean nothing), I can see the heavy use of the ballot to be a reason if Rex isn't in and let's say Elma is.

Come to think of it, that's actually not too far-fetched. They did say at one point that the ballot would have an effect on future rosters, and taking some of the most (vocally) popular votes into consideration...

Let me just say that I have a good feeling about the future of Smash Bros.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Wonder if Mattel would be willing to licence the name out.

IIRC the power glove was sold in Japan but it didn't have exclusive games and never became the meme it was in the early 00's western internet.

So we talking about 10 year old nostalgia for an item that's now 30 years old. That's like feeling old squared.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

Oh goddammit did I walk in here to see "Mimikyu is a villain" again despite everything other than the anime trying to say the opposite? Including the Mimikyu song and the Z Move?

You mean the move where he wants to “Snuggle Forever” and envelopes his opponent in its dark form that is said to drive people mad at the sight of it??

I mean, it’s a ghost that wears another Pokémon’s face. Even without the anime, Mimikyu is kinda creepy

 

[WeirdChillFever]

You mean the move where he wants to “Snuggle Forever” and envelopes his opponent in its dark form that is said to drive people mad at the sight of it??

I mean, it’s a ghost that wears another Pokémon’s face. Even without the anime, Mimikyu is kinda creepy

Creepy, but not intentionally evil.

 

[Staarih]

Question for everyone here - how likely do you guys think a Mr. Game and Watch, R.O.B., or Duck Hunt style historical character is for this game?

First I was thinking about some Virtual Boy character, but then I figured that they probably want to go with successful ventures (like all the ones you mentioned are) rather than flops. So I guess Hanafuda-cards and something like the Ultra Hand could give some inspiration to a character, but then again, they could easily be represented other ways as well (like items, trophies). What else "out of the box" is there in Nintendo's history haha? Maybe some Arcade-character (Sheriff etc)?

Hardware/peripheral-wise I think a Labo-character could be a contender in a future Smash game (probably too late for this one) as long as it picks up steam and remains popular, it'll definitely be something that sticks out in Nintendo's repertoire, not only now, but in the future as well.

Also, I'm all about this Mimikyu talk, yess make it happen!

 

[NintenRob]

It might just be me but I don't want anyone older than Mr. Game & Watch, one of his special things in Smash is that he's the oldest, they even made a point of it in Pac-Mans trailer.

So I'd rather Parabo and Satebo or Diskun.

 

[viewtifulduck82]

Come to think of it, that's actually not too far-fetched. They did say at one point that the ballot would have an effect on future rosters, and taking some of the most (vocally) popular votes into consideration...

Let me just say that I have a good feeling about the future of Smash Bros.

If we went down that route, I honestly feel king Krool would get HURT by the ballot.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I just thought of something, most people assume that recent games mostly translate into a new character, but what if Sakurai will purely use the smash ballot for character picks and no longer heavily rely on advertising? Most people voted inklings on the ballot did they not? I mean in the case of skye not being contacted equates to a disconfirmation (it could also mean nothing), I can see the heavy use of the ballot to be a reason if Rex isn't in and let's say Elma is.

Nah, I'm sure there will still be a prominent focus on characters that had roles within the 3DS/Wii U era. That's not taking into account curveball characters.

Really, I could see the ballot giving us 3-4 characters similar to how the Melee poll gave us (though not in the way people were asking him).

 

[FlareHabanero]

Really, I could see the ballot giving us 3-4 characters similar to how the Melee poll gave us (though not in the way people were asking him).

That's wrong. Bowser, Marth, and Mewtwo were planned since the first game, while Ganondorf was not planned at all and only got in due to the convenience of sharing a similar body type to Captain Falcon. They were not effected by the poll at all, with the first three mentioned likely going to be included regardless. Only Peach out of that group was possibly effected by that poll, but that's still debatable since Princess Peach is a well known character regardless and the first Smash game already name dropped her several times despite not actually appearing.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

They were not effected by the poll at all, with the first three mentioned likely going to be included regardless.

Poll popularity actually was a factor for Bowser as well as Ganondorf.

The same can be said for Marth.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You mean the move where he wants to “Snuggle Forever” and envelopes his opponent in its dark form that is said to drive people mad at the sight of it??

I mean, it’s a ghost that wears another Pokémon’s face. Even without the anime, Mimikyu is kinda creepy

Like Chill said, not intentionally evil. Hell, the Z Move starts with Mimikyu showing affection to the trainer.

Also idk why but I'm getting a need for Sol Badguy in Smash

 

[ThatGuyWhoKnowsNothing]

Anyone else find it ironic brawls metagame is almost completely Meta Knight? But real talk, both Brawl and Smash 4 had a overpowered newcomer, Bayonetta in 4 and Meta Knight in Brawl. Which potential Smash newcomer has the most chance of being OP? my guess would be Shadow the Hedgehog, whose chaos control, (the unique mechanic that would sell him as a character to sakurai) could cause for all kinds of broken moves, including one I came up with, completely freezing you opponent during a dair spike

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Anyone else find it ironic brawls metagame is almost completely Meta Knight? But real talk, both Brawl and Smash 4 had a overpowered newcomer, Bayonetta in 4 and Meta Knight in Brawl. Which potential Smash newcomer has the most chance of being OP? my guess would be Shadow the Hedgehog, whose chaos control, (the unique mechanic that would sell him as a character to sakurai) could cause for all kinds of broken moves, including one I came up with, completely freezing you opponent during a dair spike

Well, the characters weren't intentionally made to be that bonkers, the last balance patch nerfed Bayo iirc

 

[Yooran]

All of them with the exception of Snake and Ryu were very popular characters within the community.

Snake wasn't popular my ass

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Snake wasn't popular my ***

As much as I hate to defend him, couldn't he be talking about their requests to BE in Smash? Snake was a character nobody saw coming and had no real fan demand iirc. Cloud was a very popular request in the Ballot as Sakurai stated so he did indeed have fan demand

 

[Arcadenik]

While I guess I understand the appeal, World Class Track Meet isn't owned by Nintendo. It was owned by Human Entertainment, which went bankrupt in 2000.

So Nintendo asked a bankrupt and defunct company for permission to use World Class Track Meet for that E3 2015 video?

 

[Garteam]

You seem to be awfully against even the concept of Mimikyu as a fighter.

• Mimikyu's jealousy of Pikachu has it immediately attack Pikachu as soon as it sees it. It's very clearly reflected in the show when Mimikyu's eyes shine and it's Mimikyu's specific goal to straight up murder Pikachu.
  
• Yes, it's the Wario to Pokemon's Mario, so not only does it have popularity it'll also likely keep that popularity even when Gen 8 rolls around. They perfectly created the shadow to Pikachu, and I don't think they're going to let go of it anytime soon.
• Don't really know why that's bad. It's had multiple episodes that focus on it and usually appears most episodes. It's a Team Rocket Pokemon, it's not gonna get the spotlight 24/7.
• Mimikyu is a match for Pikachu, it's usually Bewear that stops the fighting. The only time I can remember that Pikachu straight up KOs Mimikyu is in the most recent episode after a very heavy battle where Mimikyu uses it's unique Z move.
• It's one of the few Trial Pokemon in the game. It doesn't do much for it's chances at Smash but it means it's more noticeable that your average Alolan Pokemon.

You may be right in that it might not have been slated to be one of the highest pushed Pokemon before it's debut, but it's pretty clear that quickly changed not long after it was revealed. Mimikyu could be overlooked for Lycanroc or one of the starters due to not being a high profile character during it's reveal, but it might not have been either, we have no way of telling until the Pokemon newcomer is revealed.

I'm not entirely opposed to Mimikyu, I just don't find it extremely likely and I think most of the reasons for it are ultimately people trying to find reasons that set it apart from the crowd other than popularity. Fundamentally, Mimikyu is still a Team Rocket Pokemon, its kinda a bit player that occasionally gets an episode in the limelight. Generally, you can tell when a Pokemon was intented to be "pushed" as they get a lot of time in the spotlight even among the larger cast. Rowlet and Lycanroc are good examples of this, the former being the frequent comic relief of the series and the latter being the ace of Ash's team.

Also regarding the "Wario" argument, I don't know if its a good justification for Smash. We only really have two "dark versions" of a character in Smash, Wario and Dark Pit. Wario's role as a character (at least in Smash) isn't really based around his rivalry with Mario, it's more based around his appearance as a greedy, gross businessman in Warioware. Dark Pit more or less got in on luck, being an easy upgrade of a costume.

Mimikyu is popular, there's no debating that. However, its popularity grew out of an organic attachment people had to the character rather than a marketing push. Recent marketing has featured Mimikyu in response to this (stuff like being a DLC assist in Pokken, getting its own Z move, and Totem Mimikyu being available in both US/UM). However, this is lack of an initial push is what I believe would cause Sakurai to pass him up in the initial roster.

I'd say Mimikyu is probably the fourth most likely Pokemon to be added from gen 7, after Rowlet, Lycanroc, and Decidueye.

 

[Smartz]

Maybe something that might not be liked but maybe you could have mimikyu as a secondary character along with whatever James Pokémon was. (Sorry I haven’t watched the anime this season. I stopped watching it after mid Sinnoh. Idk guess I just grew out of it.) Kind of like what the ice climbers are.

 

[osby]

Anyone else find it ironic brawls metagame is almost completely Meta Knight? But real talk, both Brawl and Smash 4 had a overpowered newcomer, Bayonetta in 4 and Meta Knight in Brawl. Which potential Smash newcomer has the most chance of being OP? my guess would be Shadow the Hedgehog, whose chaos control, (the unique mechanic that would sell him as a character to sakurai) could cause for all kinds of broken moves, including one I came up with, completely freezing you opponent during a dair spike

You forgot Pikachu and Fox in first two games.

 

[Smartz]

You forgot Pikachu and Fox in first two games.

I drink to forget but I always remember

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Anyone else find it ironic brawls metagame is almost completely Meta Knight? But real talk, both Brawl and Smash 4 had a overpowered newcomer, Bayonetta in 4 and Meta Knight in Brawl. Which potential Smash newcomer has the most chance of being OP? my guess would be Shadow the Hedgehog, whose chaos control, (the unique mechanic that would sell him as a character to sakurai) could cause for all kinds of broken moves, including one I came up with, completely freezing you opponent during a dair spike

If you were to include Final Smashes, then Giga Mac would definitely be among the most overpowered fighters by far. But at least he's only dangerous with his ground game, as his aerial attacks are far less powerful.

 

[Zeox]

Pichu would comeback? there is no much reason except the fact that Pichu was in meelee, but at the same time there is also no reason why Jigglypuff is still in smash yet it will never leave to roster.

 

[Zhadgon]

Talking about a hardware rep anyone has thought about the Game Boy Camera?

.n_n.

 

[osby]

Pichu would comeback? there is no much reason except the fact that Pichu was in meelee, but at the same time there is also no reason why Jigglypuff is still in smash yet it will never leave to roster.

Jiglypuff is still in a lot of people's minds. I don't think Pichu's own popularity was really high apart from Johto.

Also Jigglypuff has an original moveset.

 

[Zeox]

Jiglypuff is still in a lot of people's minds. I don't think Pichu's own popularity was really high apart from Johto.

Also Jigglypuff has an original moveset.

I think Jigglypuff started as a kirby clone in 64 or something like that? i don't remember very well...
but I hope they never remove Jigglypuff.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I think Jigglypuff started as a kirby clone in 64 or something like that? i don't remember very well...
but I hope they never remove Jigglypuff.

She got lucky once Daddy Sakurai realized he shouldn’t take any of them out

 

[osby]

I think Jigglypuff started as a kirby clone in 64 or something like that? i don't remember very well...
but I hope they never remove Jigglypuff.

Well, she was modelled on Kirby but... Ness was also modelled on Mario and Captain Falcon modelled on Samus (both has same up tilts). She's actually pretty unique in terms of specials but also really easy to add once you add Kirby into the game.

She got lucky once Daddy Sakurai realized he shouldn’t take any of them out

Don't let Wolf hear you.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Well, she was modelled on Kirby but... Ness was also modelled on Mario and Captain Falcon modelled on Samus (both has same up tilts). She's actually pretty unique in terms of specials but also really easy to add once you add Kirby into the game.




Don't let Wolf hear you.

He wasn’t an original cast member, so he better hear my taunt...I do hope he returns though (I need him back for more villains...and cause Falco can’t be the only crew member to sound young and completely manly)

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I'm not entirely opposed to Mimikyu, I just don't find it extremely likely and I think most of the reasons for it are ultimately people trying to find reasons that set it apart from the crowd other than popularity. Fundamentally, Mimikyu is still a Team Rocket Pokemon, its kinda a bit player that occasionally gets an episode in the limelight. Generally, you can tell when a Pokemon was intented to be "pushed" as they get a lot of time in the spotlight even among the larger cast. Rowlet and Lycanroc are good examples of this, the former being the frequent comic relief of the series and the latter being the ace of Ash's team.

Also regarding the "Wario" argument, I don't know if its a good justification for Smash. We only really have two "dark versions" of a character in Smash, Wario and Dark Pit. Wario's role as a character (at least in Smash) isn't really based around his rivalry with Mario, it's more based around his appearance as a greedy, gross businessman in Warioware. Dark Pit more or less got in on luck, being an easy upgrade of a costume.

Mimikyu is popular, there's no debating that. However, its popularity grew out of an organic attachment people had to the character rather than a marketing push. Recent marketing has featured Mimikyu in response to this (stuff like being a DLC assist in Pokken, getting its own Z move, and Totem Mimikyu being available in both US/UM). However, this is lack of an initial push is what I believe would cause Sakurai to pass him up in the initial roster.

I'd say Mimikyu is probably the fourth most likely Pokemon to be added from gen 7, after Rowlet, Lycanroc, and Decidueye.

Going off the marketing aspect by that logic Lycanroc and Mimikyu are practically equals, just that Lycanroc gets more screentime in the anime, but Mimikyu gets a ton more than Decideueye does which you put above Mimikyu. My point is just that Lycanroc was marketed the same way as Mimikyu back then, even less because it didn't have a promotional video surrounding it.

I'm really wondering at one point Sakurai decided which Pokemon to add, or if Gamefreak sent him choices. It would help if we even knew when his project plan started lol.

EDIT: ok I want some thoughts. Speaking of project plan let's assume Sakurai did it mid 2016. We know he knew of BOTW (because of Link) but would he have known enough about the Champions to include one of them as a character?

 

[Sigran101]

Updated my roster. This is post dlc. The idea with black shadow is that he inherits ganondorf's moves yada yada you know this already. I know Joker's considered an oddball choice. I'd appreciate any feedback!
Edit: Ice climbers were supposed to be on here. I just forgot to grab their icon. Just pretend they are there.

 

[Zeox]

View attachment 145780

Updated my roster. This is post dlc. The idea with black shadow is that he inherits ganondorf's moves yada yada you know this already. I know Joker's considered an oddball choice. I'd appreciate any feedback!

Eeveryone have their opinions, I think is ok, I would have added the ice climbers but if you think they will not comeback that's fine (unless they are there and I'm just blind).

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

View attachment 145780

Updated my roster. This is post dlc. The idea with black shadow is that he inherits ganondorf's moves yada yada you know this already. I know Joker's considered an oddball choice. I'd appreciate any feedback!

Which characters were you thinking for dlc? Personally I can't see a dlc roster without facorting in FE Switch and Pokemon Switch. However that's because I think this game's lifecycle will be different. If the dlc is anything like Smash 4, characters from future games aren't as likely as people think. I also don't see Impa getting in over a BOTW rep...but that's personal, glad you updated Ganondorf at least.

Overall fun roster! Awesome that you added Decideueye and Mimikyu as unlikely as that is lol

EDIT: HOW DID I MISS ICE CLIMBERS?! Im honestly sure I've never seen a roster on here without them so I assumed. Any reasoning?

 

[Murlough]

I'm not entirely opposed to Mimikyu, I just don't find it extremely likely and I think most of the reasons for it are ultimately people trying to find reasons that set it apart from the crowd other than popularity. Fundamentally, Mimikyu is still a Team Rocket Pokemon, its kinda a bit player that occasionally gets an episode in the limelight. Generally, you can tell when a Pokemon was intented to be "pushed" as they get a lot of time in the spotlight even among the larger cast. Rowlet and Lycanroc are good examples of this, the former being the frequent comic relief of the series and the latter being the ace of Ash's team.

Also regarding the "Wario" argument, I don't know if its a good justification for Smash. We only really have two "dark versions" of a character in Smash, Wario and Dark Pit. Wario's role as a character (at least in Smash) isn't really based around his rivalry with Mario, it's more based around his appearance as a greedy, gross businessman in Warioware. Dark Pit more or less got in on luck, being an easy upgrade of a costume.

Mimikyu is popular, there's no debating that. However, its popularity grew out of an organic attachment people had to the character rather than a marketing push. Recent marketing has featured Mimikyu in response to this (stuff like being a DLC assist in Pokken, getting its own Z move, and Totem Mimikyu being available in both US/UM). However, this is lack of an initial push is what I believe would cause Sakurai to pass him up in the initial roster.

I'd say Mimikyu is probably the fourth most likely Pokemon to be added from gen 7, after Rowlet, Lycanroc, and Decidueye.

Its funny you say that. I think you are just trying to find reasons to use against it.

If Nintendo didn't expect Mimikyu to be popular then they wouldn't have a song made shortly after their reveal.

The anime is not the be all end all for why a Pokemon should or shouldn't be in Smash. Mimikyu isn't just another Rocket mon.

I don't like the Wario thing either.

Tbf, Ash would have never got a Mimikyu. You can't really use "only Ash's mons are meant to be popular" when he would never have ended up with a Mimikyu. It going to Jessie is the natural next best thing for it in the anime. Just because Ash doesn't have it does not mean Mimikyu's chances are lower.

"Its popularity grew organicly and was unexpected." Ok, Gamefreak made a song for it. Why would they do that for somethibg they didn't expect to get traction. There is zero evidence backing your claim and plenty backing the contrary.

 

[Wyoming]

Niiiice, another F-Zero fa-

The idea with black shadow is that he inherits ganondorf's moves!

 

[Sigran101]

Eeveryone have their opinions, I think is ok, I would have added the ice climbers but if you think they will not comeback that's fine (unless they are there and I'm just blind).

Which characters were you thinking for dlc? Personally I can't see a dlc roster without facorting in FE Switch and Pokemon Switch. However that's because I think this game's lifecycle will be different. If the dlc is anything like Smash 4, characters from future games aren't as likely as people think. I also don't see Impa getting in over a BOTW rep...but that's personal, glad you updated Ganondorf at least.

Overall fun roster! Awesome that you added Decideueye and Mimikyu as unlikely as that is lol

EDIT: HOW DID I MISS ICE CLIMBERS?! Im honestly sure I've never seen a roster on here without them so I assumed. Any reasoning?

I completely forgot to add Ice climbers! They were on my list in text but I forgot to grab their icon. My computer is wonky and it would take forever to redo it so please just pretend they are on there. My bad.

 

[Cosmic77]

Going off the marketing aspect by that logic Lycanroc and Mimikyu are practically equals, just that Lycanroc gets more screentime in the anime, but Mimikyu gets a ton more than Decideueye does which you put above Mimikyu. My point is just that Lycanroc was marketed the same way as Mimikyu back then, even less because it didn't have a promotional video surrounding it.

I'm really wondering at one point Sakurai decided which Pokemon to add, or if Gamefreak sent him choices. It would help if we even knew when his project plan started lol.

It's almost funny how hard this is to predict. In the latest episode, Mimikyu got center spotlight and had a battle with Pikachu, and Jessie got Mimikium Z at the end. This means Mimikyu is more likely, right? Literally the very next episode, Lycanroc gets the focus as it takes on a 1-on-3 battle in a Grand Trial. So...Lycanroc is more likely?

At this point, it could be anyone.

EDIT: ok I want some thoughts. Speaking of project plan let's assume Sakurai did it mid 2016. We know he knew of BOTW (because of Link) but would he have known enough about the Champions to include one of them as a character?

Since "Zelda Wii U" and the "NX" were huge around the time Sakurai started development, I'd be surprised if he didn't want to look at BotW so he could weigh some of his options for a potential Zelda newcomer. If not, then at the very least, the Champions might have been brought to his attention if wanted to know what new moves from BotW he could give Link and Zelda.

Regardless, I don't think it matters too much. Even if he didn't learn about the Champions until the January 2017 Switch presentation, that's still a solid year and a half before Smash Switch would be released. Believe me, if there was ever a game Sakurai might have felt like adding a character from despite said character not originally being planned, BotW would be that game.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I completely forgot to add Ice climbers! They were on my list in text but I forgot to grab their icon. My computer is wonky and it would take forever to redo it so please just pretend they are on there. My bad.

I figured that was unintentional XD. Although, and I know your roster was post dlc, I could see them being added as dlc instead of base. I've talked about this before, but basically Sakurai didn't prioritize them last game so he might not prioritize them this game, and will get around to them later seeing as the Switch can definitely handle them.

Its funny you say that. I think you are just trying to find reasons to use against.

If Nintendo didn't expect Mimikyu to be popular then they wouldn't have a song made shortly after their reveal.

The anime is not the be all end all for why a Pokemon should or shouldn't be in Smash. Mimikyu isn't just another Rocket mon.

I don't like the Wario thing either.

Tbf Ash would have never got a Mimikyu. You can't really use "only Ash's mons are meant to be popular" when he would never have ended up with a Mimikyu. It going to Jessie is the natural next best thing for it in the anime. Just because Ash doesn't have it does not mean Mimikyu's chances are lower.

"Its popularity grew organicly and was unexpected." Ok, Gamefreak made a song for it. Why would they do that for somethibg they didn't expect to get traction. There is zero evidence backing your claim and plenty backing the contrary.

Not to mention Jigglypuff was added due to popularity and appearance in the anime and Mimikyu has definitely more of those than Jiggly did at the time. Yes I know Jigglypuff also had a similar model to Kirby, but that was also the reasoning for adding them.

Since "Zelda Wii U" and the "NX" were huge around the time Sakurai started development, I'd be surprised if he didn't want to look at BotW so he could weigh some of his options for a potential Zelda newcomer. If not, then at the very least, the Champions might have been brought to his attention if wanted to know what new moves from BotW he could give Link and Zelda.

Regardless, I don't think it matters too much. Even if he didn't learn about the Champions until the January 2017 Switch presentation, that's still a solid year and a half before Smash Switch would be released. Believe me, if there was ever a game Sakurai might have felt like adding a character from despite said character not originally being planned, BotW would be that game.

This is one of the reasons I'm almost done with Smash speculation till E3. I'm tired of people mentioning Sakurai's project plan as if they know when he did or how open he kept it through the process. I think it's totally possible he kept it open to see more of BOTW, Pokemon, Xenoblade or even new IPs like ARMS. We just don't know. And I'm tired of so many arguements just being "came out too late" etc.

Really can't wait to get an idea of what Sakurai is doing with this Smash.

Related, is there concept art of the Champions? I wonder if Sakurai had to base a pick of those which he would choose. Mipha and Revalli look unique to me. Revalli might have been an issue if he was considering Decideueye though...also is it possible he wouldn't consider either of the bird archers as we already have a winged archer? Sorry that went on longer than I thought lol

 

[Zeox]

You will all see how the great Muk is the new pokemon rep.

 

[osby]

View attachment 145780

Updated my roster. This is post dlc. The idea with black shadow is that he inherits ganondorf's moves yada yada you know this already. I know Joker's considered an oddball choice. I'd appreciate any feedback!

Isn't 17 newcomers a bit much?

 

[Deathcarter]

May I ask why you group Wii Fit Trainer with them? I've never seen them as representing hardware, so much as the significant impact that those pieces of hardware had on Nintendo's history.

Wii Fit already had a impact on Nintendo history as great as or greater than did by the time she was chosen and while Wii Fit was still a active franchise back during 2012, she's very much relegated to being a historical character like those three these days.