Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MoonlitIllusion]

Honestly kinda hope we get more clones, I'm really not against clones as long as they're different enough, like lucas and wolf were, as long as at least half of the moveset is different I'm good. It gives a way to add characters who may not feel like they're worth spending time making a completely unique character for. Like we could have Daisy as a Peach clone, Medusa as a Palutena clone, Celica as a Robin clone, Galacta Knight as a Meta Knight clone, Black Shadow as a Falcon clone. And of course my dream would be getting Elma and then having Fiora as a clone of her.

 

[Gumzilla]

So say there's a story mode in 5mash. With it return should we expect stickers to return? Will all characters be involved this time? Will Crazy Hand be in it this time? Will it be 4 players this time? What will be different?

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

Honestly kinda hope we get more clones, I'm really not against clones as long as they're different enough, like lucas and wolf were, as long as at least half of the moveset is different I'm good. It gives a way to add characters who may not feel like they're worth spending time making a completely unique character for. Like we could have Daisy as a Peach clone, Medusa as a Palutena clone, Celica as a Robin clone, Galacta Knight as a Meta Knight clone, Black Shadow as a Falcon clone. And of course my dream would be getting Elma and then having Fiora as a clone of her.

Finally something we can agree on! Yeah, I say send in the clones if it gets us some more wanted characters who otherwise can't make it by their own merits of uniqueness.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Honestly kinda hope we get more clones, I'm really not against clones as long as they're different enough, like lucas and wolf were

So basically, you're okay with clones so long as they aren't clones

 

[92MilesPrower]

So basically, you're okay with clones so long as they aren't clones

Lucas and Wolf are definitely "Luigified" clones in my book. They're semi-clones that have plenty of things different to somewhat set them apart from the base character.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

So basically, you're okay with clones so long as they aren't clones

*as long as they're semi-clones

even Roy-style clones I'm fine with tbh

 

[Dragoncharystary]

So say there's a story mode in 5mash. With it return should we expect stickers to return? Will all characters be involved this time? Will Crazy Hand be in it this time? Will it be 4 players this time? What will be different?

Well if by some chance we do end up getting a new story mode that's subspace emissary level, I do think it will be upgraded to a 4 players to cement Smash as a party game. Tabuu or any random new enemies will probably be completely forgotten and Master Hand and Crazy Hand will be the main antagonists with the enemies being drawn from nintendo franchises like in Smash Run. Hopefully the plot will be easier to follow this time and maybe just maybe we might get some dialogue though I'm not completely sure of that.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Regardless of how different Lucas and Wolf are, they still were created by using Ness and Fox as a base. They're a type of clone.

And that's fine. That's just how development works. It's not like all clones are the same. Some are more similar than others.

I like them all, and they all bring something different. The only one I want a bit more changed is Dark Pit, since there's so little difference he doesn't feel like you can even use another strategy. It doesn't have to be a huge change either. Just something to make him stand out a little. Lucina doesn't suffer from this since you need to use a different strategy due to having a different kind of tipper, if you will. This helps.

So, imo, just update him a bit. A few stat differences, maybe a weapon or two via other aerials, etc. No biggie. He can still be low effort like Lucina and Dr. Mario. That's fine too. Just make him worth using, like the rest of the cast. If you can practice one character and use the other one without doing anything different, then it no longer feels like they're actually a different character.

 

[SuperMasterHand]

Do you think we will get actual photo/video leaks of the game before June 12 ?
Like people who works at the E3 building or something like that
I assume it will be very hard to leak but hey, we're talking about the first view of a new Smash game, there must be someone foolish enough to upload a photo of the demo stands, right ?

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Do you think we will get actual photo/video leaks of the game before June 12 ?
Like people who works at the E3 building or something like that
I assume it will be very hard to leak but hey, we're talking about the first view of a new Smash game, there must be someone foolish enough to upload a photo of the demo stands, right ?

Definitely possible, though I bet they'll be blurry images that will have people going "OMG, IT'S BANJO AND KAZOOIE!" when in reality it will just be Donkey Kong with something red behind him.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Do you think we will get actual photo/video leaks of the game before June 12 ?
Like people who works at the E3 building or something like that
I assume it will be very hard to leak but hey, we're talking about the first view of a new Smash game, there must be someone foolish enough to upload a photo of the demo stands, right ?

I really hope not. It didn't happen last time.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Do you think we will get actual photo/video leaks of the game before June 12 ?
Like people who works at the E3 building or something like that
I assume it will be very hard to leak but hey, we're talking about the first view of a new Smash game, there must be someone foolish enough to upload a photo of the demo stands, right ?

It's entirely possible, and that's exactly why E3 is losing relevancy.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Considering e3 is almost here, it'd be better to have no real leaks till after. At least then we'll be surprised. Once that's over, it'll be a long while before release and it'll be more interesting to have some data. Assuming we actually still have a lot of information to get after e3 is done, of course.

 

[MBRedboy31]

Do you think we will get actual photo/video leaks of the game before June 12 ?
Like people who works at the E3 building or something like that
I assume it will be very hard to leak but hey, we're talking about the first view of a new Smash game, there must be someone foolish enough to upload a photo of the demo stands, right ?

Just imagine if they took it a step further and found a way to datamine the E3 demo...

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I don't really care if Octolings happen or not. I don't want to try to predict clones anyway.

If Octolings did happen though, I would imagine they could get model swaps on weapons that do similar things, and then slight property changes.

Examples:
Inklings have Inkbrush -> Octiolings get Octobrush (slower swing speed, harder hitting)
Inklings have Splattershot -> Octolings have Splattershot Pro (slower fire, longer range)
Inklings have splat bomb -> Octolings get Curling Bombs (Trail the ground, explode on impact)

Those are just a few examples of how they could retain the same animations as a clone, but have different properties while still staying true to source material.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Just imagine if they took it a step further and found a way to datamine the E3 demo...

Didn't the Brawl e3 Demo get datamined or something?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I really hope that Geno and Mallow tweet from today, means something. I love the Geno fanbase. They're some of the nicest people in the Smash Speculation base and they really deserve their character.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I really hope that Geno and Mallow tweet from today, means something. I love the Geno fanbase. They're some of the nicest people in the Smash Speculation base and they really deserve their character.

It's probably just a Splatfest thing?

But it's still nice to acknowledge the characters regardless.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

As rivals, Sony & Microsoft seem to have great respect for Nintendo, so I wonder if they'd be okay with Super Smash Bros having a mascot to compliment the rival game consoles, possibly Crash and Banjo.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I really hope that Geno and Mallow tweet from today, means something. I love the Geno fanbase. They're some of the nicest people in the Smash Speculation base and they really deserve their character.

Right now, it means as much as flaming Chibi Robo, unfortunately.

 

[Fenriraga]

I really hope that Geno and Mallow tweet from today, means something. I love the Geno fanbase. They're some of the nicest people in the Smash Speculation base and they really deserve their character.

You clearly haven't talked to me enough yet then.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

As rivals, Sony & Microsoft seem to have great respect for Nintendo, so I wonder if they'd be okay with Super Smash Bros having a mascot to compliment the rival game consoles, possibly Crash and Banjo.

Lol. Microsoft considering their mascot Banjo.

Lol.

 

[Deleted member]

What's everyone's biggest pipe dream character? Mine is probably Kumatora from Mother 3. I love her design and the game she comes from, but seeing as how Mother 3'll probably never make it West...yeah, I'm not exactly optimistic about her chances.

I'd also love to see a Persona protagonist, but that unfortunately is an even bigger pipe dream than Kumatora, ha ha.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Lol. Microsoft considering their mascot Banjo.

Lol.

This so much. Just not even close realistically. Their mascot is Master Chief. Full stop. People need to really stop pretending that Banjo is some big heavy hitter. He's not. He's a great character, but only appeals to a single era of fans for one console. Even Bayonetta is less niche due to being on multiple platforms having way more promotion(Nintendo promoted her in Playboy, for cripes' sake). And she's no gaming icon, which says a lot.

What's everyone's biggest pipe dream character? Mine is probably Kumatora from Mother 3. I love her design and the game she comes from, but seeing as how Mother 3'll probably never make it West...yeah, I'm not exactly optimistic about her chances.

I'd also love to see a Persona protagonist, but that unfortunately is an even bigger pipe dream than Kumatora, ha ha.

Well, many already know it's Brian from Quest 64. And it's a pipe dream not because he's obscure(with at least starting to be treated by some fans as a cult classic, despite not seriously being one), but because licensing is just not worth it when the company already effectively disowned the series.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

It's entirely possible, and that's exactly why E3 is losing relevancy.

E3 has been losing relevance because of the advent of live streaming video through the internet as opposed to physically assisting an exclusive conference, not because of half baked leaks that show 15s of footage at best with no context or explanation.

And that's without mentioning the fact that leaking stuff like that when you are already working in the industry can permanently damage your career. Remember that guy who leaked Smash 4? I don't, at least I don't know who he is. All I know is that he worked for the ESRB but got fired because he decided he wanted his 15 minutes of fame.

 

[ErenJager]

What's everyone's biggest pipe dream character? Mine is probably Kumatora from Mother 3. I love her design and the game she comes from, but seeing as how Mother 3'll probably never make it West...yeah, I'm not exactly optimistic about her chances.

I'd also love to see a Persona protagonist, but that unfortunately is an even bigger pipe dream than Kumatora, ha ha.

I feel like every character I want is a pipe dream.
I really like unpredictable/ unlikely characters.

Hmm, for first party i'd say either... Giegue, Satebo & Parabo, Sudowodo and Hoopa Unbound.

It's too easy to pick pipe dream third parties... there's so many.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

What's everyone's biggest pipe dream character? Mine is probably Kumatora from Mother 3. I love her design and the game she comes from, but seeing as how Mother 3'll probably never make it West...yeah, I'm not exactly optimistic about her chances.

I'd also love to see a Persona protagonist, but that unfortunately is an even bigger pipe dream than Kumatora, ha ha.

Resisting urge to do my millionth write up as to why Joker/Persona content isn't a pipe dream

(Since I don't think Joker is a pipe dream yet,) My biggest pipe dream character would be Ray Mk III. Custom Robo is a dead franchise that was one of the most criminally slept on games of all time. A Ray model in Smash would be one of the coolest characters available, easy.



Side note, here is the latest build of Legacy XP, this particular video showing characters that were made for that mod who are highly requested/discussed frequently in this thread. The video can give some better visualization of characters who people don't see potential in, namely Geno and Mage Ganon. Its a fun watch and has some smooth tunes too, I definitely recommend giving it a watch:

Spoiler

 

[Deleted member]

What's everyone's biggest pipe dream character? Mine is probably Kumatora from Mother 3. I love her design and the game she comes from, but seeing as how Mother 3'll probably never make it West...yeah, I'm not exactly optimistic about her chances.

I'd also love to see a Persona protagonist, but that unfortunately is an even bigger pipe dream than Kumatora, ha ha.

Most of the characters i want are not exactly pipe dreams.

As in, they are not likely (at best i give them 50% chance at best) but at least they seem plausible.

But if i had to mention some, i guess come characters that quite fit the "pipe dream" term are Gooey and Mike Jones. The former is a character that was long forgotten until Star Allies (and it's too late to help his chances) and the latter is basically a character that is non-existent in Japan, which destroys almost any chance of him appereaing. I suppose Pig Ganon and Simon Belmont could count too, if only because of my pessimism.

 

[Troykv]

What's everyone's biggest pipe dream character? Mine is probably Kumatora from Mother 3. I love her design and the game she comes from, but seeing as how Mother 3'll probably never make it West...yeah, I'm not exactly optimistic about her chances.

I'd also love to see a Persona protagonist, but that unfortunately is an even bigger pipe dream than Kumatora, ha ha.

Well... That depends of how impossible the character actually is.

If I'm going more for the "I want them above a lot of things despite they aren't likely". That character would of course be Micaiah, <3 my favorite character and the only one of my wanted ones that I'm actively supporting xD

But for a character that I think is almost impossible that it would appear in Smash Bros Character, but I would want them regardless... that character would be Adeleine from Kirby.

 

[Deleted member]

Resisting urge to do my millionth write up as to why Joker/Persona content isn't a pipe dream

(Since I don't think Joker is a pipe dream yet,) My biggest pipe dream character would be Ray Mk III. Custom Robo is a dead franchise that was one of the most criminally slept on games of all time. A Ray model in Smash would be one of the coolest characters available, easy.



Side note, here is the latest build of Legacy XP, this particular video showing characters that were made for that mod who are highly requested/discussed frequently in this thread. The video can give some better visualization of characters who people don't see potential in, namely Geno and Mage Ganon. Its a fun watch and has some smooth tunes too, I definitely recommend giving it a watch:

Spoiler

I certainly hope it's possible! Joker in Smash Switch is legit one of the best things that could happen for me personally. I don't think there's a single character announcement that would top that one!

Also, dang. That mod pack looks pretty insane. It kinda makes me sad that certain fan made things are starting to look more appealing and imaginative than official stuff nowadays, lol. Here's hoping Smash Switch really blows us away at E3!

 

[NintenRob]

Satebo & Parabo

Seriously? Neat

As for my pipe dreams, as in the pipes are so narrow that I don't actually put them on my wish lists, I guess I'd have to say the Baby Bros, Daroach, Sectonia, and if someone else is calling them pipe dream, I suppose I should list Parabo & Satebo too.

I also would love Deku, Goron and Zora Link

 

[Lyndis_]

This so much. Just not even close realistically. Their mascot is Master Chief. Full stop. People need to really stop pretending that Banjo is some big heavy hitter. He's not. He's a great character, but only appeals to a single era of fans for one console. Even Bayonetta is less niche due to being on multiple platforms having way more promotion(Nintendo promoted her in Playboy, for cripes' sake). And she's no gaming icon, which says a lot.

Microsoft doesn't really have any mascot at this point. In Halo 5 they all but replaced Chief with Locke, and the series has been dying ever since Reach. They've even stated publicly they wanted to get rid of Chief at some point. They went back on it after Halo 5's campaign was universally hated (which was only partially related to how they handled Chief, they really missed the point) but it's still significant.

I do think if Microsoft got any character in Smash it'd be Banjo, though. Even if he isn't a "heavy hitter", I think people really underestimate how big he is.

Remember that the "appeals to a single era" applies to Cloud, too. Banjo at least kept getting games until 2008 and is still the face of the collect-a-thon genre to many.

There was a reason Yooka-Laylee became the fastest Kickstarter ever to reach 1Mil ever and got almost 3Mil overall.

What's everyone's biggest pipe dream character? Mine is probably Kumatora from Mother 3. I love her design and the game she comes from, but seeing as how Mother 3'll probably never make it West...yeah, I'm not exactly optimistic about her chances.

I'd also love to see a Persona protagonist, but that unfortunately is an even bigger pipe dream than Kumatora, ha ha.

Shovel Knight, Tails, Ray Mark III, among others.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Microsoft doesn't really have any mascot at this point. In Halo 5 they all but replaced Chief with Locke, and the series has been dying ever since Reach. They've even stated publicly they wanted to get rid of Chief at some point.

I do think if Microsoft got any character in Smash it'd be Banjo, though. Even if he isn't a "heavy hitter", I think people really underestimate how big he is.

Remember that the "appeals to a single era" counts for Cloud, too. Banjo at least kept getting games until 2008 and is still the face of the collect-a-thon genre IMO.

It doesn't apply for Cloud at all. He got more games/sequels, movies, and tons of merchandise. He became a gaming icon. As well as his game influenced many games to come.

Banjo did nothing of the sort. He's a one-hit wonder with two games that got a tiny revival that died off. It doesn't mean the original games are bad or aren't amazing cult classics in their own right. But they did not legitimately influence gaming at all. Final Fantasy 7 absolutely did. That's the severe difference between the two.

Microsoft would more likely agree to Steve? for easier appeal realistically. That said, Microsoft's "mascots" originated from other companies, so it's more that they don't have a hard set one in the same way as Nintendo does. Sony suffers from a similar issue, of course. Regardless, Master Chief is as close to a mascot as they currently have. People look at him as their big one. While Steve? is a major one too, he was the most known Indie and isn't viewed the same way due to his origins.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Duck Hunt is close enough to Banjo-Kazzoie.

I don’t care about Banjo-Kazzoie, and I beat Banjo-Kazzoie.

Banjo-Kazzoie.

 

[Lyndis_]

It doesn't apply for Cloud at all. He got more games/sequels, movies, and tons of merchandise. He became a gaming icon. As well as his game influenced many games to come.

Banjo did nothing of the sort. He's a one-hit wonder with two games that got a tiny revival that died off. It doesn't mean the original games are bad or aren't amazing cult classics in their own right. But they did not legitimately influence gaming at all. Final Fantasy 7 absolutely did. That's the severe difference between the two.

Microsoft would more likely agree to Steve? for easier appeal realistically. That said, Microsoft's "mascots" originated from other companies, so it's more that they don't have a hard set one in the same way as Nintendo does. Sony suffers from a similar issue, of course. Regardless, Master Chief is as close to a mascot as they currently have. People look at him as their big one. While Steve? is a major one too, he was the most known Indie and isn't viewed the same way due to his origins.

Banjo had 5 games, though, not just the first two and N&B. Banjo is also a gaming icon, just googling "iconic gaming characters" will get you Banjo-Kazooie almost immediately.

I didn't even think about Steve, honestly. My subconscious refuses to associate him with Microsoft, lol, but you're probably correct.

Steve would definitely be the Smash rep for Microsoft, although I still believe Banjo is above Chief for likelihood.

They didn't let Chief in Dead or Alive and even in their own fighting game, Killer Instinct, they had a Battletoad & the Arbiter instead.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I think they should add the character Diddy Kong Racing. He drives cars and doesn’t—

yeah I like Diddy Kong racing

Hi I’m TeeTee

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Banjo had 5 games, though, not just the first two and N&B. Banjo is also a gaming icon, just googling "iconic gaming characters" will get you Banjo-Kazooie almost immediately.

I didn't even think about Steve, honestly. My subconscious refuses to associate him with Microsoft, lol, but you're probably correct.

Steve would definitely be the Smash rep for Microsoft, although I still believe Banjo is above Chief.

Banjo is way lower on the totem scale.

And no, he's not really a gaming icon. Again, that's just boosted popularity by an era of fans. Vocal minorities and all. He's not a household title nor is his series. And many barely remember he had games beyond the few Xbox and n64 ones, which says a lot.

Chief is inherently above by being a severely bigger character in every way. That's pretty much undeniable. He's Microsoft's biggest character. Steve? is easily second place. They also have a lot of other active and more important franchises to concentrate on(Killer Instinct included, which also has two characters who have way better chances by virtue of being more promotable at this time).

I like Banjo, but he's a very niche character that doesn't have a chance beyond the ballot realistically.

Duck Hunt is close enough to Banjo-Kazzoie.

I don’t care about Banjo-Kazzoie, and I beat Banjo-Kazzoie.

Banjo-Kazzoie.

They're nothing alike beyond being animal companions. That's kind of it. One's a major character, the other is a niche one. The other is a major retro. The other could only qualify as retro if you define it as "how long ago it was". They have no similar moves beyond the ability for Kazooie to peck. That's really it. Oh, I guess they both have some projectiles? Which are completely different kinds? No matter how you cut it, they're completely different characters. There is nothing close to Banjo-Kazooie in Smash(who also don't have a very good chance anyway, ballot aside, and that's not as easy as people think it is. Realizable also means that characters who are active are more likely to get in. They are currently a dead franchise).

 

[BlondeLombax]

So I've been thinking about something lately, but it took me up to now from a year ago to actually make it public.

Has anyone bothered to take a look at the Mii Fighter outfits based off of some of the characters in-game? I might overthinking it, but I think that some of them might just be using almost the exact same models as the characters that they're based off of. First off, let's look at Samus and her Mii outfit.

When I look at it, I can see a lot of similarities to Samus herself, especially when it comes to the torso area and arm cannon. It's almost the same model, only with changed proportions in relation to the assigned Mii. Samus isn't the only one who's affected either, because Captain Falcon has the same situation.

The helmet, the boots, the scarf, the belt, and even the emblem of Falcon's back - they're all almost the exact same things that are present on the Mii costume, which give light t the possibility that they're shared models with alterations made for the Miis. Taking this into consideration, I personally believe that Sakurai may just be able to utilize the Mii outfits made in Sm4sh for the Switch game, meaning that all of these characters may actually have a great shot this time around (after all, we have the Inklings on the way).

Am I crazy, or am I on to something? Not even I know.

 

[JamesDNaux]

It doesn't apply for Cloud at all. He got more games/sequels, movies, and tons of merchandise. He became a gaming icon. As well as his game influenced many games to come.
Banjo did nothing of the sort.

Did Cloud ever have his own train?

On the official site for Banjo Kazooie, check out this page on the BK themed train in Japan! @WinkySteve @grantkirkhope https://t.co/uN9s5Vhc1r pic.twitter.com/yaCjJFE80j

— Andrew (Beta64) (@Beta64Official) February 7, 2018

Time has not been kind to Banjo, he might only be fondly remembered now, but that doesn't change how much of a phenomenon he was in his heyday. It's silly to compare him to Cloud, yeah, but Banjo is no slouch.

He's a one-hit wonder with two games that got a tiny revival that died off.

How can you be a one-hit wonder with two hits?

 

[osby]

Am I crazy, or am I on to something? Not even I know.

Maybe not Lloyd or Zero but others sure seems plausible.