Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[SvartWolf]

What's everyone's biggest pipe dream character? Mine is probably Kumatora from Mother 3. I love her design and the game she comes from, but seeing as how Mother 3'll probably never make it West...yeah, I'm not exactly optimistic about her chances.

I'd also love to see a Persona protagonist, but that unfortunately is an even bigger pipe dream than Kumatora, ha ha.

Personally, anything castlevania related, i could say that my pipe dreams are Soma Cruz, Dracula or Shanoa (0%chance), but even the face of the series, Simon Belmont, is a pipe dream.

Still actively supporting him, was my vote at the ballot, and if with enough support Cloud managed to get in (although a decade late) with enough support he may be a posibility. But as a long time castlevania and silent hill fan... my faith in konami is... well, lets say it was depleted years before the whole kojima incident.

Another pipe dream is morrigan Aensland... but if simon belmonts chances are 1%, morrigans chances are 0.001%. even a darkstalkers 4 is a pipe dream at this point DX.

Last pipe dream is Dark Souls representation, be it solaire, the chosen undead or anything really but out of these 3, actually this one have the best chances of happening. I mean. if robin and bayonetta pipe dreams manage to bear fruit. this one at least still ahve a chance, plus is one of the third parties that would be more unpredicted, and namco are the publishers.

Regarding persona protagonist, i dont think that any shin megami related content (inlcuding persona) is too imposible, and joker could certainly pull a cloud strife. Is a sad day when i thinkt that joker have better chances than simon belmont T.T. if megaman fans think that capcom have been killing their franchise... they know nothing. At least i still have netflix series and bloodstained DX.

 

[Lyndis_]

That is a good point about the Mii costumes, however I wouldn't say a character being a Mii costume makes them likely for being a playable character as much as it just means they're likely to be in Smash in some form or another.

For example, Takamaru, X, Ashley, and Zero are all already in Smash. They're just not playable. Their models are likely based off the existing ones for their existing roles.

The K. Rool, Lloyd, and Geno costumes could be pointing towards them being more likely, but we have been guessing that for a while and I believe Sakurai explicitly stated something along the lines of them being characters he wanted in or were heavily requested but couldn't be added to Sm4sh specifically.

Heihachi specifically was rejected because "Sakurai considered the idea of implementing his moveset in Smash to be difficult." and chose Pac-Man instead.

We do however 'know' Namco is involved in the development of Smash Switch to some extent so Lloyd and Heihachi are by no means out of the question.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Did Cloud ever have his own train?

On the official site for Banjo Kazooie, check out this page on the BK themed train in Japan! @WinkySteve @grantkirkhope https://t.co/uN9s5Vhc1r pic.twitter.com/yaCjJFE80j

— Andrew (Beta64) (@Beta64Official) February 7, 2018

Time has not been kind to Banjo, he might only be fondly remembered now, but that doesn't change how much of a phenomenon he was in his heyday. It's silly to compare him to Cloud, yeah, but Banjo is no slouch.

How can you be a one-hit wonder with two hits?

Because let's be frank, only the n64 games were anywhere near meaningful. That's pretty much a "one hit wonder", as it didn't keep him relevant nor allow him to consistently gain any traction later on. It's pretty much a slouch overall when it comes to being a gaming icon, something the character just plain didn't achieve.

He was awesome back in the day, nobody can deny that. But he got left off with other characters who didn't continue to stay relevant. Which is sad, but just what it is.

And Cloud also had his own merchandise, a movie from his particular game(not just Final Fantasy), multiple sequels that actually were popular and made a splash. Having a train is... hardly something notable really. It's cool, and proves he had a big spike during the n64 era. But that came and gone, not much different from a fad. And that's the issue overall. He didn't stay relevant or all that memorable. And being memorable is kind of key to being a real gaming icon. Not just a small series with some memorable games. But being memorable to gaming as a whole.

 

[JamesDNaux]

The one interesting note about Mii costumes for me is the K. Rool one. They made a completely new model, just for the costume.

They had the Paon trophy model they could have used, but they deliberately made one styled after Rare's K. Rool.

Food for thought.

Because let's be frank, only the n64 games were anywhere near meaningful. That's pretty much a "one hit wonder".

That was just semantics, two hit games is a two-hit wonder, not a one-hit wonder.

It's pretty much a slouch overall when it comes to being a gaming icon, something the character just plain didn't achieve.

He was awesome back in the day, nobody can deny that. But he got left off with other characters who didn't continue to stay relevant. Which is sad, but just what it is.

Yes, he was awesome back in the day, that's the point. Cloud is iconic because of FF7, not any spinoff he showed up in, not anything else. Banjo is iconic because of his own two games, no matter how old they are.

 

[Lyndis_]

I think K. Rool is the most "safe" guess to take from the Mii costumes, since he is first party and Sakurai specifically redesigned his character for that model.

I'm not saying it means something, but you can't convince me it means nothing. I fully believe he will at least be a trophy in Smash Switch.

I believe Geno and Lloyd are also significant, though, since Geno has never had a 3D model before and I believe Lloyd's is made from scratch (don't quote me on that.)

 

[ErenJager]

Am I crazy, or am I on to something? Not even I know.

Oh man, I could go down a Smash Bros speculation rabbit hole with this.
The first party characters seem very possible.
The third parties could be a mixture of possible/ considerations.

I'll say this much... The more characters added to Smash 5 that had Mii costumes in Smash 4... The more this hypothesis will be considered valid.

 

[NintendoKnight]

For the sheer kicks and giggles I made a roster as well.

Standing at 112 characters strong:

Spoiler

It's literally supposed to be the epitome of a pipe dream roster, combining what people wanted back in the Brawl speculation days with both the Wii U speculation roster, and the roster desires for this upcoming game. I personally don't care about a bunch of these characters, but I added them anyway.

Honestly, it looks like a pre-Brawl CSS... or a MUGEN roster. Oh, those were the days. As stated, this is a pipe-dream roster; which means I have ZERO faith in it actually happening. I just tried to put in as much as possible. There were a few characters that I didn't add, such as Pauline, because I didn't really feel that they added to the overall feel of this particular roster.

So yeah, opinions? (Not on the likelihood of such a roster, duh)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That was just semantics, two hit games is a two-hit wonder, not a one-hit wonder.

I don't play semantic games. Point stands. He's a one-hit wonder system-wise, which is what I'm saying.

Yes, he was awesome back in the day, that's the point. Cloud is iconic because of FF7, not any spinoff he showed up in, not anything else. Banjo is iconic because of his own two games, no matter how old they are.

No. He's iconic because FFVII has multiple sequels, a movie, and is in constant merchandise, quite a few cameos, and because of his game immensely taking the world by storm and influencing more games to come. People don't recognize MegaMan as a series because of a few good games, they recognize it as a huge franchise with cartoons, anime, manga, toys, and more. That's huge. Same thing with Pac-Man. And Ryu. And Cloud. And Sonic. Snake is not nearly as high up in that regard. But the point is they have mega franchises. This is kind of important to being an actual icon. You need to really stand out and be instantly recognizable to the average gamer. But a B&K is barely iconic at all, and to a single era. Cause he honestly only exists to most people that are n64 fans. He's not really recognizable to gaming as a whole.

Being iconic is more than one "one good game"(or simply a game and a single sequel of note), it's also seeing how it influences the world as a whole. It needs to be recognizable to the majority of the world. That doesn't happen when the game barely influences anything. It was basically an improved version of Donkey Kong 64, not an influential game for years to come. Which is sad, since it legit had potential, but it didn't go anywhere specific that really made a severe impact. That's something all the other 3rd parties in Smash have(well, Bayonetta aside, and even she had some impact, at least enough for Nintendo to care, but it wasn't much either).

 

[Lyndis_]

For the sheer kicks and giggles I made a roster as well.

Standing at 112 characters strong:

Spoiler

It's literally supposed to be the epitome of a pipe dream roster, combining what people wanted back in the Brawl speculation days with both the Wii U speculation roster, and the roster desires for this upcoming game.

Honestly, it looks like a pre-Brawl CSS... or a MUGEN roster. Oh, those were the days. As stated, this is a pipe-dream roster; which means I have ZERO faith in it actually happening. I just tried to put in as much as possible. There were a few characters that I didn't add, such as Pauline, because I didn't really feel that they added to the overall feel of this particular roster.

So yeah, opinions? (Not on the likelihood of such a roster, duh)

I don't think anyone who likes video games to any extent could dislike this roster, honestly. It's pretty good and would probably result in any game with this roster being known as the best roster of all time.

Question, though, are the images specifically representative of the design they'd use? If so I personally feel like Super or Metroid Prime Samus would fit much better next to Sylux and Ridley.

On the side of the roster itself:

I believe that Ray Mark III is a much nicer design than Ray 01, and much newer. I don't feel like they'd pick the design from the Gamecube one since it isn't the first Custom Robo or the latest, and has a pretty different artstyle than the rest of the series.

I also personally feel Pichu should be included if Young Link is, since Pichu has more to differentiate themselves from Pikachu than Young Link does with Toon Link.

 

[Zinith]

Rule for 3rd party inclusion for me: Can an average Joe Schmoe in the street who's not into video games recognize the character? If yes, yes. If not, no.

 

[osby]

For the sheer kicks and giggles I made a roster as well.

Standing at 112 characters strong:

Spoiler

It's literally supposed to be the epitome of a pipe dream roster, combining what people wanted back in the Brawl speculation days with both the Wii U speculation roster, and the roster desires for this upcoming game. I personally don't care about a bunch of these characters, but I added them anyway.

Honestly, it looks like a pre-Brawl CSS... or a MUGEN roster. Oh, those were the days. As stated, this is a pipe-dream roster; which means I have ZERO faith in it actually happening. I just tried to put in as much as possible. There were a few characters that I didn't add, such as Pauline, because I didn't really feel that they added to the overall feel of this particular roster.

So yeah, opinions? (Not on the likelihood of such a roster, duh)

It'd feel weird to have so much characters and I probably wouldn't have time to play 3/4 of them. I don't know, I think even the roster in Smash For was gigantic.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I don't play semantic games. Point stands. He's a one-hit wonder system-wise, which is what I'm saying.


No. He's iconic because FFVII has multiple sequels, a movie, and is in constant merchandise, quite a few cameos, and because of his game immensely taking the world by storm and influencing more games to come. People don't recognize MegaMan as a series because of a few good games, they recognize it as a huge franchise with cartoons, anime, manga, toys, and more. That's huge. Same thing with Pac-Man. And Ryu. And Cloud. And Sonic. Snake is not nearly as high up in that regard. But the point is they have mega franchises. This is kind of important to being an actual icon. You need to really stand out and be instantly recognizable to the average gamer. But a B&K is barely iconic at all, and to a single era. Cause he honestly only exists to most people that are n64 fans. He's not really recognizable to gaming as a whole.

Being iconic is more than one "one good game"(or simply a game and a single sequel of note), it's also seeing how it influences the world as a whole. It needs to be recognizable to the majority of the world. That doesn't happen when the game barely influences anything. It was basically an improved version of Donkey Kong 64, not an influential game for years to come. Which is sad, since it legit had potential, but it didn't go anywhere specific that really made a severe impact. That's something all the other 3rd parties in Smash have(well, Bayonetta aside, and even she had some impact, at least enough for Nintendo to care, but it wasn't much either).

Now you're just moving the goalpost, but I concede, Banjo does not have TV shows, movies, etc.

But I was speaking of games and only games.

At least we can safely call Rayman an icon, since he had a show.

 

[Lyndis_]

Rule for 3rd party inclusion for me: Can an average Joe Schmoe in the street who's not into video games recognize the character? If yes, yes. If not, no.

So no third parties this time around? /s

...but honestly though, who would even be left? Steve, Crash Bandicoot, and Lara Croft would probably work, but I can't think of anyone else that has actually appeared on a Nintendo platform and I'm not sure how particularly likely these 3 even are.

I don't believe Spyro is that iconic, nor Bomberman or Rayman. I don't think that they're not iconic, but they're not so much so someone on the street would almost definitely not recognize them. We have just about every "average joe" known character there is that's been on a Nintendo platform.

 

[Zinith]

So no third parties this time around? /s

...but honestly though, who would even be left? Steve, Crash Bandicoot, and Lara Croft would probably work, but I can't think of anyone else that has actually appeared on a Nintendo platform.

I don't believe Spyro is that iconic, nor Bomberman or Rayman. I don't think they're not iconic, but someone on the street would almost definitely not recognize them.

Too be honest, that seems to be enough. Sure may have opened Pandora's box, but that doesn't mean Sakurai wants to go too far in regards to quantity...

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Now you're just moving the goalpost, but I concede, Banjo does not have TV shows, movies, etc.

But I was speaking of games and only games.

At least we can safely call Rayman an icon, since he had a show.

Man it's been a while since I've seen this.

yeah overall it is something video game stuff needs to work on to be better. Some are getting it right though.

 

[Nu~]

What's everyone's biggest pipe dream character? Mine is probably Kumatora from Mother 3. I love her design and the game she comes from, but seeing as how Mother 3'll probably never make it West...yeah, I'm not exactly optimistic about her chances.

I'd also love to see a Persona protagonist, but that unfortunately is an even bigger pipe dream than Kumatora, ha ha.

Omggg id love Kumatora too. Definitely one of my favorite characters from Mother 3.

The 4 chars on my wish list for Smash 5 are Crash, Marx, Rayman, and Hades but I wouldn’t consider any of them at the level of “pipe dream” tbh. Buuuuut if I really had to pick, I’d choose Spooky from Pac-Man World 2.

All of 3.5 ppl know who he is lmao but it’d be awesome seeing him in smash.


However...If I’m to go really off the wall tho?
Obi-Wan, Matoro (Bionicle), or The Brickster would be my crazy choices ^^;. Star Wars and Bionicle/LEGO made up a big part of my childhood and I think I’d cry (and be pretty damn confused) if they got any rep.

 

[Deleted member]

I just realized something interesting.
Smash Tour gets a lot of hate, but they had one thing I loved: Multiple characters for one stock.
I really wish they did that concept of grouping characters. It was just Smash Tour was a bit too much of a mess.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Rule for 3rd party inclusion for me: Can an average Joe Schmoe in the street who's not into video games recognize the character? If yes, yes. If not, no.

Ballot picks aside, anyway. But they don't follow that rule and weren't intended to. Although to be fair, this doesn't come up till after Snake was added, and it makes sense why. He was just a favor to put in.

That eventually gave Sakurai the idea to create proper guidelines for 3rd parties so he can have the cream of the crop. It's kind of his goal, to be the "best character game in the world", hence only going for actual iconic 3rd parties(ballot aside).

Now you're just moving the goalpost, but I concede, Banjo does not have TV shows, movies, etc.

But I was speaking of games and only games.

At least we can safely call Rayman an icon, since he had a show.

Yep. He's an icon. So are Rabbids for a similar reason.

But you're also missing the point. It's about influencing the world. Not necessarily having a show or movie. It's more about having merchandise and spreading out to the majority of the world, so that people can see who they are. Though to be fair, Rayman actually might be less recognizable to non-gamers than Rabbids, mostly because one has more merchandising now. Regardless, Rabbids and Rayman are gaming icons.

And yeah, gaming-wise, to be fair, Rayman and Rabbids blow B&K out of the water. I think the issue is people forget that being an iconic character is not just about games, but influencing gaming as a whole, but also influencing the world. When you have two amazing games, but your series barely has anything beyond that of note, and your series doesn't really do much at all to continue to influence later games, you're not really that big. Again, I absolutely love the characters(not enough to want them for Smash, at least over more important Microsoft options, respectively), but sadly they're small fries at this point. I can only hope that with their costumes being in Minecraft their popularity soars enough to at least allow them to try and revive the series properly, like with a real Banjo-Threeie. Honestly, I could see them becoming huge again, but to be fair, with the team behind it gone to make Yooka-Laylee, that seems unlikely.

Also, since I never saw the edit till later, Yooka-Laylee, while cool, really wasn't the biggest attraction either. People are vastly overrating its popularity. It has some nostalgic vibes, and is still a cool Indie game, but it didn't do severely well. Though to be fair, that's most Indie games as is. Not a lot become huge. Minecraft is one of the few that really soared to new heights. Shantae is a bit up there, and Shovel Knight is basically at this time a reasonable fad(not to say it can't become bigger, it's just currently a very active franchise, which is why it's popular. If it becomes inactive, we'll find out just how iconic the series really is. I mean, even when Sonic had a hiatus in games, or the fact Pac-Man stopped having new games for a while, they still continued to be notable as a whole. Though I guess not many 3rd parties in Smash actually took a very long hiatus anyway).

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Rule for 3rd party inclusion for me: Can an average Joe Schmoe in the street who's not into video games recognize the character? If yes, yes. If not, no.

:thinking:

EDIT: I suppose Bayonetta had the ballot to thank, so that particular point of mine is not totally true.

However, I still don't think that is necessarily true. That certainly makes a statement if a character falls into that category, but I think third-parties who consistently support Nintendo and have really damn good games are viable and realizable options. Obviously they'd have a harder time than a Mega Man or a Pac Man, but Bayonetta and Cloud both prove that they don't have to be a character that any random dude on the street would know.

 

[MysticKnives]

What's everyone's biggest pipe dream character? Mine is probably Kumatora from Mother 3. I love her design and the game she comes from, but seeing as how Mother 3'll probably never make it West...yeah, I'm not exactly optimistic about her chances.

I'd also love to see a Persona protagonist, but that unfortunately is an even bigger pipe dream than Kumatora, ha ha.

Wang Tang from Power Stone.

 

[Zinith]

Of course I just realized that there might be a little wiggle room, like Joe Schmoe might recognize who Minecraft Steve looks like but is he gonna know that it's "Minecraft Steve?"

What's everyone's biggest pipe dream character? Mine is probably Kumatora from Mother 3. I love her design and the game she comes from, but seeing as how Mother 3'll probably never make it West...yeah, I'm not exactly optimistic about her chances.

I'd also love to see a Persona protagonist, but that unfortunately is an even bigger pipe dream than Kumatora, ha ha.

Boshi. Geno fans would explode...

 

[JamesDNaux]

But you're also missing the point. It's about influencing the world. Not necessarily having a show or movie. It's more about having merchandise and spreading out to the majority of the world, so that people can see who they are.

I was just trying to back out of a pointless debate, but you're kinda shooting too high there. Smash is about games, third parties should be iconic to gaming, it doesn't matter if they're iconic outside of it. People who've played a game should be able to recognize them, not people who've never played a game in their life (who wouldn't even know they're in Smash in the first place).

Other forms of media may make them more well known in general, but that's really kind of a moot point.

Especially considering the non-gaming media based on games all suck hard anyway and should be ignored more than anything.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

:thinking:

I don't think that is necessarily true. That certainly makes a statement if a character falls into that category, but I think third-parties who consistently support Nintendo and have really damn good games are viable and realizable options. Obviously they'd have a harder time than a Mega Man or a Pac Man, but Bayonetta and Cloud both prove that they don't have to be a character that any random dude on the street would know.

And in Cloud's case, the character doesn't have to important to Nintendo specifically. If that was the case, Sakurai would've chosen another FF character. He wanted the biggest one, so he went for Cloud.

He has however said in regards to Cloud; "I'm not sure if I would've added him if he didn't have a Nintendo appearance." What makes this notable is that he didn't consider it a huge deal to begin with, just something he obviously should always take into consideration. Characters without Nintendo appearances in any way(including cameos, like how Master Chief is one in Minecraft, for instance) can also be somewhat harder to get approval of by all the companies, as the reason they never had an appearance could also be relevant, if any. It doesn't apply for all. It's in fact lucky Chief got a costume via the Halo Mash-Up Pack. Halo DS was an idea that was denied being on a Nintendo system. This already means that getting Chief any kind of Nintendo appearance is less likely due to them saying no before. This changed. While this doesn't increase his chances much, it already proves Microsoft doesn't find it nearly as big of a deal as people are saying. They clearly don't mind having their owned characters on other systems. Considering Donkey Kong 64 got on the VC unedited, meaning that Microsoft's properties were kept wholesale, the whole "it's competition" thing isn't going to completely stop characters from getting in.

Chief, honestly, I don't believe would become playable. But I believe it's more him being an FPS legend that holds him back. Making sure that is properly handled while fitting into Smash can be difficult. Even with stuff like fantasy bullets, and the game being Mature, you need to really make him stand out in some way while clearly representing what the series is all about, along with the character.

They did this with rest of the 3rd parties. You still feel who they are and what their series is.

I was just trying to back out of a pointless debate, but you're kinda shooting too high there. Smash is about games, third parties should be iconic to gaming, it doesn't matter if they're iconic outside of it. People who've played a game should be able to recognize them, not people who've never played a game in their life (who wouldn't even know they're in Smash in the first place).

Other forms of media may make them more well known in general, but that's really kind of a moot point.

Especially considering the non-gaming media based on games all suck hard anyway and should be ignored more than anything.

Nah, just being realistic. All the 3rd parties outside of Bayonetta(and arguably Snake?) are icons to the world. Clearly being a gaming icon is important, but that's not all of it. If you're only an icon to gamers, but not to the rest of the world, you're not going to be nearly as big of a hitter for a 3rd party. So the characters on the box, namely the 3rd parties, are going to bring in more customers who aren't normally gamers this way. It's why choosing major icons among the whole world for the base roster can easily help. Snake helped start the 3rd party phenomenon. Sonic brought in soooooo much more. But you get the idea of what I mean.

I don't disagree, but I do see why icons who start in gaming but appeal to non-gamers tend to work better.

 

[NeonBurrito]

I personally believe that Sakurai may just be able to utilize the Mii outfits made in Sm4sh for the Switch game, meaning that all of these characters may actually have a great shot this time around (after all, we have the Inklings on the way).

Am I crazy, or am I on to something? Not even I know.

I don't really think that's the case. Keep in mind we also got costume sets for:

• Mega Man X (Mega Man X)
• Protoman (Mega Man)
• MegaMan.EXE (Mega Man Battle Network)
• Dunban (Xenoblade)
• Isabelle (Animal Crossing)
• K.K. Slider (Animal Crossing)
• Akira (Virtua Fighter)
• Jacky (Virtua Fighter)
• Chrom (Fire Emblem)
• Black Knight (Fire Emblem)
• Flying Man (MOTHER)
• Toad (Super Mario)
• Viridi (Kid Icarus)
• Monster Hunters (Monster Hunter)
• Chocobo (Final Fantasy)
• Tails (Sonic)
• Knuckles (Sonic)
• Gil (Tower of Druaga)
• Generic cats, monkeys, bears

Now, I'm not saying that none of those characters in that picture are unlikely. For example, Takamaru and Ashley were assist trophies, with Takamaru being considered twice for Smash, Heihachi and Geno had been considered for Smash, K. Rool and Inklings were extremely popular choices, etc.

However, saying that a certain character having a Mii costume could mean said character has a good shot doesn't really seem like that big of a deal, considering characters like Dunban, Flying Man, and Gil got ones as well.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Nah, just being realistic. All the 3rd parties outside of Bayonetta(and arguably Snake?) are icons to the world. Clearly being a gaming icon is important, but that's not all of it. If you're only an icon to gamers, but not to the rest of the world, you're not going to be nearly as big of a hitter for a 3rd party. So the characters on the box, namely the 3rd parties, are going to bring in more customers who aren't normally gamers this way. It's why choosing major icons among the whole world for the base roster can easily help. Snake helped start the 3rd party phenomenon. Sonic brought in soooooo much more. But you get the idea of what I mean.

I'd still say being iconic to gaming is the only important thing in a game that celebrates... games.

It's more coincidence than anything that said third parties have tv shows and the like, considering they're big stars in their own medium, it only made sense that they dipped their toes in other forms of media (even MGS is getting a movie now).

Like I said, someone who knew of say, Sonic from any of his many TV shows but never played a Sonic game certainly isn't going to start gaming with Smash. Third parties bring in gamers that otherwise wouldn't be playing Nintendo games, not non-gamers.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'd still say being iconic to gaming is the only important thing in a game that celebrates... games.

It's more coincidence than anything that said third parties have tv shows and the like, considering they're big stars in their own medium, it only made sense that they dipped their toes in other forms of media (even MGS is getting a movie now).

Like I said, someone who knew of say, Sonic from any of his many TV shows but never played a Sonic game certainly isn't going to start gaming with Smash. Third parties bring in gamers that otherwise wouldn't be playing Nintendo games, not non-gamers.

Not really true, though. Smash having a huge roster with highly recognizable characters also gets people into buying it, even those who don't really play the games. They want to play as someone who they know.

This does actually play a role when it comes to make a game appeal to many. Just getting in gamers from other system owners isn't enough anymore. You want anyone and everyone to want to play. That's how you get the most.

But fair enough. I can see why some think it's only meant to appeal purely to gamers, of all system owners. I think it's meant to branch out beyond that. Eh, differing opinions.

 

[Zinith]

Remember everyone, Smash Bros. is still a celebration of Nintendo. Cloud's inclusion did not change that

 

[JamesDNaux]

Not really true, though. Smash having a huge roster with highly recognizable characters also gets people into buying it, even those who don't really play the games. They want to play as someone who they know.

This does actually play a role when it comes to make a game appeal to many. Just getting in gamers from other system owners isn't enough anymore. You want anyone and everyone to want to play. That's how you get the most.

But fair enough. I can see why some think it's only meant to appeal purely to gamers, of all system owners. I think it's meant to branch out beyond that. Eh, differing opinions.

Do you really think someone who doesn't play games is going to drop money on a console and a game just to play as a single character from a TV show they like? That might be what commercials want you to think, but no one is just going to suddenly buy a console and a game out of the blue unless they're rich. That's not even about Smash or thinking it's purely to appeal to gamers, that's just common sense. Random Joe didn't buy a Wii U after seeing Pac-Man in Smash because he fondly remembers the Pac-Man cartoon of yesteryear, he bought it because he played Pac-Man and probably wanted to play other games anyway.

 

[NintendoKnight]

I don't think anyone who likes video games to any extent could dislike this roster, honestly. It's pretty good and would probably result in any game with this roster being known as the best roster of all time.

Question, though, are the images specifically representative of the design they'd use? If so I personally feel like Super or Metroid Prime Samus would fit much better next to Sylux and Ridley.

On the side of the roster itself:

I believe that Ray Mark III is a much nicer design than Ray 01, and much newer. I don't feel like they'd pick the design from the Gamecube one since it isn't the first Custom Robo or the latest, and has a pretty different artstyle than the rest of the series.

I also personally feel Pichu should be included if Young Link is, since Pichu has more to differentiate themselves from Pikachu than Young Link does with Toon Link.

I did not intend for the icons to represent those exact renditions of the characters. Preferably they represent the most recent appearances those characters have, but those are merely the icons that the Roster Maker gave me. Hence, Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, and Samus are unchanged. Personally, I'd pick Returns Samus as I feel that Returns gave Samus the undisputed best armor design Metroid has ever seen.

Can't say much about Custom Robo as I'm very unfamiliar with the series. I remember he was in the pre-Brawl speculation, and he ended up as an Assist Trophy instead. That's about it, really.

About Pichu, and other notable characters, I didn't add him as I began to really rush towards the end. There were characters I left out, but others I couldn't mentally get them in there. Hence why the organized nature of the roster falls apart about 4/5ths of the way through.

 

[P.Kat]

Im not a fan of the FE series and only keep track of it cause it’s related to Smash so FE getting another rep isn’t high on my list. That being said, there are a few candidates that I am comfortable supporting as a newcomer addition:

• Celicia: she’s a magic swordswoman, right? If I can’t get Terra from FF, then she’s the next best thing maybe.
• Alm: he looks pretty cool
• Lyndis: Super quick samurai style action
• Micaiah: Maybe too much of a Zelda vibe but I still like the idea.
• Black Knight: Always been my top pick. What Ganondorf should of been.

I merged your posts for you since you double posted but be careful not to double post again or it may lead to a disciplinary warning and/or infractions.

Alright thanks, sorry about that, I've must of accidentally double posted

 

[J0eyboi]

Same with Roy in Melee, but he was a clone so...

Roy wasn't in Smash before he was in his own game because he was a clone, he was in Smash first because Binding Blade was delayed. He was supposed to be in Binding Blade first.

What's everyone's biggest pipe dream character? Mine is probably Kumatora from Mother 3. I love her design and the game she comes from, but seeing as how Mother 3'll probably never make it West...yeah, I'm not exactly optimistic about her chances.

I'd also love to see a Persona protagonist, but that unfortunately is an even bigger pipe dream than Kumatora, ha ha.

Any(or all) of the main cast of Bravely Default/Second. Except Magnolia. **** Magnolia.

 

[Fenriraga]

What's everyone's biggest pipe dream character? Mine is probably Kumatora from Mother 3. I love her design and the game she comes from, but seeing as how Mother 3'll probably never make it West...yeah, I'm not exactly optimistic about her chances.

I'd also love to see a Persona protagonist, but that unfortunately is an even bigger pipe dream than Kumatora, ha ha.

*Points to signature*

I have the pipiest of all dreams.

 

[NintendoKnight]

*Points to signature*

I have the pipiest of all dreams.

Outside of Tails and Harp Note though, the roster I made pretty much covered it for you.

An interesting character to wish for, I gotta say.

 

[Deleted member]

Am I crazy, or am I on to something? Not even I know.

I read you loud and clear.

Peter Griffin confirmed.

 

[YoshiandToad]

What's everyone's biggest pipe dream character? Mine is probably Kumatora from Mother 3. I love her design and the game she comes from, but seeing as how Mother 3'll probably never make it West...yeah, I'm not exactly optimistic about her chances.

I'd also love to see a Persona protagonist, but that unfortunately is an even bigger pipe dream than Kumatora, ha ha.

Meowth. I'd sacrifice every single Pokemon outside Pikachu for playable Meowth at this point. Yes, even Mewtwo. *evil laugh*

Add Tails to that too. Although if third parties are ever allowed a second character from their series he goes from pipe dream to pretty much a shoe-in. I'd probably put him as the most likely character in that scenario due to his status as the Luigi of the franchise.

------

Regarding Banjo; his history is far more interesting than his games which honestly are fairly standard 3D platform N64 affair.

Don't get me wrong; they're good, they're competently made, well polished, etc and had Rare not have been let go he'd have most likely made it by this point onto the roster, but I think we vastly overestimate his overall importance to gaming on these boards.
He's not a face of a genre like Cloud, Ryu or Megaman, nor does he have the overall importance of Sonic or Pac-Man. He didn't even become a household name like Crash Bandicoot or Lara Croft did way back in his hayday.

Banjo weirdly reminds me of Bayonetta in reverse;
Bayonetta: Series dying, Nintendo buys, new game released, series thrives.
Banjo: Series thrives, Nintendo sells, new game released, series dies.

In the miracle Banjo's rights are sold back to Nintendo I can see him getting in a heartbeat, but currently there's no future for the bear and bird combo for either Nintendo or Microsoft.

 

[Zinith]

Regarding Banjo; his history is far more interesting than his games which honestly are fairly standard 3D platform N64 affair.

Don't get me wrong; they're good, they're competently made, well polished, etc and had Rare not have been let go he'd have most likely made it by this point onto the roster, but I think we vastly overestimate his overall importance to gaming on these boards.
He's not a face of a genre like Cloud, Ryu or Megaman, nor does he have the overall importance of Sonic or Pac-Man. He didn't even become a household name like Crash Bandicoot or Lara Croft did way back in his hayday.

Banjo weirdly reminds me of Bayonetta in reverse;
Bayonetta: Series dying, Nintendo buys, new game released, series thrives.
Banjo: Series thrives, Nintendo sells, new game released, series dies.

In the miracle Banjo's rights are sold back to Nintendo I can see him getting in a heartbeat, but currently there's no future for the bear and bird combo for either Nintendo or Microsoft.

Unfortunately for them, that seems about right...

Also, when you say you're located "still up Peach's dress," you're talking about Toad, right? Because if it was Yoshi.....

 

[Fenriraga]

Outside of Tails and Harp Note though, the roster I made pretty much covered it for you.

An interesting character to wish for, I gotta say.

I just really like Starforce. :V

Believe me when I say there is not a single fiber of any of my being that believes her to be even a slight possibility. I'm not kidding myself.

But hey, Proto Man and Zero got Mii costumes, so maybe she can get one. I'd be able to live with that.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Honestly Meowth should of been in smash since 64

A shame he never made it in

 

[BlondeLombax]

I read you loud and clear.

View attachment 144291

Peter Griffin confirmed.

Yeah, I downloaded WAY too many Miis based off of different people online. Putting Arnold Schwarzenegger into the clothing of a little girl witch may just be one of the funniest things I've ever done.

 

[NintendoKnight]

Yeah, I downloaded WAY too many Miis based off of different people online. Putting Arnold Schwarzenegger into the clothing of a little girl witch may just be one of the funniest things I've ever done.

Having several such Mii fighters like Chuck Norris, Billy Mays, Geno, Samus, Chrom, and the Flying Man is incredible.

Also, Gandalf from Lord of the Rings in Ashley's dress was funny as well. It's also rather hard to beat the Knuckles costume. I'm just going to say it, the Mii Fighter costumes were low-key one of the greatest additions to Sm4sh.