Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MoonlitIllusion]

Talking about DK newcomers, my Ideal DK roster would be like this:
Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong- Veterans and main characters.
King K. Rool- The main antagonist.
Rambi and Squawks- The animal buddies are a huge think in the DKC franchise. Rambi is playable in more DKC games than DK himself. They could be a duo Duck Hunt style.
Pauline- Represents the beginning of both Mario and DK franchises.

I think that with this roster all major aspects of the DK history would be covered. Dixie, Cranky and Funky are great, and I wouldn't mind their inclusion. If I had to choose, I'd pick Cranky. Being the original DK grants him more importance. And he has lots of potential with the walking stick, potions and the ghost of his deceased wife.

Nothing against the rest but let's not forget that Dixie stars in one of the 3 games of the original trilogy and plays a major part in another, she's far more important than Funky or Cranky imo

 

[osby]

Yes, I know.
I just wanted to use his name as an example of the Smash Bros. team.

It's still completely different people from the ones developping the games. For example Sakurai noted that how Bayonetta can talk English or Japanese, depending on her costume. This doesn't exist on localized version.

If we are talking about localization team that works for Nintendo USA, yeah, not calling Marth and Roy's voice actors was probably an artistic choise on their part. Which I have exactly no problem with, but I guess it works better with other Fire Emblem characters.

 

[Opossum]

It's my only gripe about the Smash Speculation Community.
Whenever certain games or characters are relevant suddenly there's a rally behind that character or game.
It also applies to characters that appear in 'believable' leaks.
Suddenly a support thread pops up. People talking about how they always loved the character etc.
Yet the demand and popularity was nearly non-existent days prior.

It's almost as if perceived probability of inclusion makes the character popular rather then the other way around.

Latent popularity definitely exists. It's not surprising people get more vocal about their love for a character when they see them as having a perceived shot at getting in. Take Crash, for example. He's a character that has always meant a lot to me, as the original game was one of the first video games I ever played. I wanted him as far back as Brawl, but I never really voiced it since he had no shot, since his series was in decline.

But when the franchise got revived with the N. Sane Trilogy and Cloud showed that there's a bit of wiggle room when it comes to Nintendo relevance, I was fully on board the Crash train even before the Switch port. And yet on the flip side, I haven't made a Caeda thread because I'm understandably pessimistic about her odds...but I'd still be overjoyed if she got in.

While naturally every movement has its bandwagoners, latent popularity is very much a thing, and it shouldn't be overlooked.

 

[Deleted member]

Am I the only one who thinks there needs to be more FE trophies than Lyn? Like Grima for an Assist Trophy?

It's still completely different people from the ones developping the games. For example Sakurai noted that how Bayonetta can talk English or Japanese, depending on her costume. This doesn't exist on localized version.

If we are talking about localization team that works for Nintendo USA, yeah, not calling Marth and Roy's voice actors was probably an artistic choise on their part. Which I have exactly no problem with, but I guess it works better with other Fire Emblem characters.

Ah. Good point.

 

[Mr. Mumbles]

You know...I can see Captain Toad being a great new assist trophy. It would suit Toad more than being playable because let's face it, Toad is an assist character first and foremost and Captain Toad's game is built around his disadvantages more than his advantages. But I can see him throwing helpful items to the play or stunning opponents with a flashlight.

I think Captain Toad would work better as an Assisty Trophy too, but maybe that's because I still don't understand why he got so popular in the first place.

No one was really crazy about Toad in Brawl and early Smash 4. Suddenly in 2013, we get a Toad who can't jump with a headlamp and a backpack and people suddenly go nuts for the idea of Toad in Smash. I love the little guy, but it makes me wonder how many people support Captain Toad just because of his relevancy.

I'm just going to leave this here.

https://youtu.be/U3zmcyOawmc?t=4m30s

 

[Sonic Poke]

Nothing against the rest but let's not forget that Dixie stars in one of the 3 games of the original trilogy and plays a major part in another, she's far more important than Funky or Cranky imo

Cranky and Funky are stars of all three original DKCs. When they are not playable they are side characters. Dixie is either playable or entirely out. Imho they are all tied in importance level.

 

[Arcadenik]

How do you feel about the idea of Nintendo Power being represented as a character in the form of Nester. I have been thinking about Nintendo Power's impact in U.S. gaming history, and although that history would likely have nothing to do with Sakurai personally, I think I may finally have found something that could compete for a historical retro character.

I’m fine with that.

Nester, Captain N, and Track Meet are good choices for historical retro characters.

 

[Freduardo]

Captain Toad can’t jump.

Toadette was playable in Captain Toad treasure tracker. In that game, she could not jump.

Toadette is also playable in super mario run.

Toadette can totally jump.

Pretty sure captain toad can jump.

 

[MrReyes96]

I just watched GameXplain’s video on captain toad and the solution of just taking off the backpack for atttacks and recovery is so simple yet makes so much sense

 

[Malkior7]

I'm just going to leave this here.

https://youtu.be/U3zmcyOawmc?t=4m30s

That's actually brilliant. Alright I'll definitely support Cap Toad now

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Here's another new stage concept that I've thought up for Adventure mode...

Mt. Dedede / King Dedede's Castle
A platformer-styled stage, where the player infiltrates King Dedede's castle. Enemies that the player can encounter include Waddle Dee, Waddle Doo, Gordo, Poppy Bros. Jr., Blade Knight, Scarfy, Grizzo, Knuckle Joe, and Sir Kibble.

As the player advances, he/she will have to get through some maze-like passages, which are influenced by the difficulty route that the stage takes place in. Some of the rooms even require the player to defeat all the enemies before continuing.

Halfway through the stage is a mid-boss battle against Bonkers. He'll attack with his hammer and explosive coconuts, with the latter being reflectable. Bonkers will also spin around with his hammer extended, dealing a single strong hit on the player.

The difficulty route and set intensity will influence which Bonkers variant is fought; the variants include the standard Bonkers, Super Bonkers, Bonkers EX, and Super Bonkers EX.

Super Bonkers uses the exact same attacks as Bonkers, but they deal 1.2x Bonkers's attack damage. Bonkers EX adds some additional attacks, which includes his spin attack dealing multiple hits (instead of a single hit), throwing gigantic coconuts, and swinging his metallic hammer with greater force. Bonkers EX's base attack damage is 1.3x stronger than that of Bonkers. Super Bonkers EX uses the exact same attacks as Bonkers EX, but they deal 1.2x Bonkers EX's attack damage (1.56x).

Mid-Boss | Route | Intensity
Bonkers | All Routes | 0.0 - 2.9
Bonkers | Easy & Normal | 3.0 - 3.9
Super Bonkers | Hard | 3.0 - 3.9
Bonkers | Easy | 4.0 - 4.9
Super Bonkers | Normal | 4.0 - 4.9
Bonkers EX | Hard | 4.0 - 4.9
Super Bonkers | Easy | 5.0 - 5.9
Bonkers EX | Normal & Hard | 5.0 - 5.9
Bonkers EX | Easy & Normal | 6.0 - 6.9
Super Bonkers EX | Hard | 6.0 - 6.9
Bonkers EX | Easy | 7.0 - 7.9
Super Bonkers EX | Normal & Hard | 7.0 - 7.9
Super Bonkers EX | All Routes | 8.0 - 9.0

After defeating Bonkers, the player has to go through another maze-like area, with more enemy swarms to deal with. Some rooms may even offer special prizes, or a chance to heal.

At the end of the maze will be a long passage, which leads to King Dedede's battle arena. The player must face King Dedede in a 1-on-1 battle. Defeating him will complete the stage, unless the set intensity is 5.0 or higher, where another phase will take place.

When the player defeats King Dedede on intensity 5.0 or higher, he'll return onto the stage, and switch over to his Masked Dedede alter ego. In that scenario, the player has to defeat Masked Dedede to truly complete the stage.

Masked Dedede's attacks are 1.25x more damaging than that of King Dedede's, and he can still use items, and be affected by size-changing items. Also, most of his normal attacks receive a flame or electric effect, and some of his special attacks operate differently.

For his Gordo Throw, Masked Dedede will instead throw a Blado. The Blado itself is more damaging than the Gordo.

Masked Dedede gains super armor while using Jet Hammer, and it takes only 60 frames to reach full charge. When fully charged, Masked Dedede's Jet Hammer will cause him to spin around violently while keeping the super armor, and delivering multiple hits that end with a blow that deals strong knockback. However, Masked Dedede leaves himself fully vulnerable (even losing the super armor) for up to 360 frames once he stops spinning.

Masked Dedede would also serve as King Dedede's Final Smash, but the one encountered in this stage would not be impervious to knockback. On an additional note, Masked Dedede takes 0.8x knockback from attacks, despite being just as heavy as King Dedede, making him more difficult to KO.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I'm just going to leave this here.

https://youtu.be/U3zmcyOawmc?t=4m30s

>Captain Toad would be perfect for Super Smash Bros. Switch because he celebrates the essence of Toad.

So making obnoxious noises that sounds like a choking turkey and being totally useless at protecting Peach.

Seems legit.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I just watched GameXplain’s video on captain toad and the solution of just taking off the backpack for atttacks and recovery is so simple yet makes so much sense

They definitely could, but... he doesn't take off his backpack in treasure tracker to jump and I'd assume they'd want to represent his home game that put him on the map and made him relevant. Maybe sakurai would see it differently tho who knows. A gimmick where he has a special to drop his backpack, changing his attributes and allowing him to jump could be interesting I guess but having an alternate moveset where he can't jump just sounds terrible and like it wouldn't be fun to play lol.

 

[KingBroly]

Nintendo leaks are usually quick and to the point, no fluff, no details, just 'X, Y and Z'

 

[MrReyes96]

>Captain Toad would be perfect for Super Smash Bros. Switch because he celebrates the essence of Toad.

So making obnoxious noises that sounds like a choking turkey and being totally useless at protecting Peach.

Seems legit.

Toad is an icon
I’m rooting for Waluigi but even I can acknowledge toad is long overdue and has been done dirty since melee

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'm just going to leave this here.

https://youtu.be/U3zmcyOawmc?t=4m30s

Yes, so much YES! I want Captain Toad now... I really wanted Toad before Smash 4 as well as I felt he was the one classic Mario character often overlooked, but was totally fine with Rosalina and Bowser Jr. in the end. But THIS... This is just pure awesome.

The gimmicks purposed in this video make perfect sense as well. I really want it now.

People need to be more creative with videos like this.

Also, happy page 1010.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Toad is an icon
I’m rooting for Waluigi but even I can acknowledge toad is long overdue and has been done dirty since melee

Honestly the fact that Toad is still not playable and never was even considered is probably a big hint that Sakurai or at least another executive doesn't view Toad as fighter material.

For perspective, even more obscure characters like Takamaru, Ayumi Tachibana, and Lip at the bare minimum were at least considered or acknowledged. So claiming Toad should get in because he's an iconic character is questionable.

 

[MrReyes96]

Honestly the fact that Toad is still not playable and never was even considered is probably a big hint that Sakurai or at least another executive doesn't view Toad as fighter material.

For perspective, even more obscure characters like Takamaru, Ayumi Tachibana, and Lip at the bare minimum were at least considered or acknowledged.

I think captain toad has elevated his chances significantly
Same as bandana dee
It’s easier to see a generic race in smash if they are defined with specific looks and abilities

 

[FlareHabanero]

It’s easier to see a generic race in smash if they are defined with specific looks and abilities

That never hindered Yoshi nor the Pokemon. Also more debatably Kirby, R.O.B., the Inklings, etc.

But now we need to magically make an exception?

 

[SonicMario]

That never hindered Yoshi nor the Pokemon. Also more debatably Kirby, R.O.B., the Inklings, etc.

But now we need to magically make an exception?

Yoshi and Pokemon all had games of their own (Not to mention the latter an Anime of which is certainly an influence on Smash) by the time of Smash 64. All Toad had was Wario's Woods and was Player 3 and/or 4 in many Mario platformers.

 

[Deleted member]

Nothing against the rest but let's not forget that Dixie stars in one of the 3 games of the original trilogy and plays a major part in another, she's far more important than Funky or Cranky imo

Without Funky, Dixie wouldn't even have a game.

 

[92MilesPrower]

(Unless we did this hundreds of pages ago,) Let's play a game. The roster of playable Pokémon in Smash Bros. is completely reset with the exception of Pikachu, the series mascot. Your job is to put in a sole representative from each generation into Smash Bros. as a playable character. (Stuff like Plusle & Minun as a pairing is acceptable, but NO TRAINERS.) And please, no flame wars or anything over anyone else's picks.

I'll start:
Gen 1: Mewtwo
Gen 2: Scizor
Gen 3: Blaziken
Gen 4: Lucario
Gen 5: Zoroark
Gen 6: Greninja
Gen 7: Decidueye

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Without Funky, Dixie wouldn't even have a game.

and she's still surpassed him in importance imo

 

[Opossum]

(Unless we did this hundreds of pages ago,) Let's play a game. The roster of playable Pokémon in Smash Bros. is completely reset with the exception of Pikachu, the series mascot. Your job is to put in a sole representative from each generation into Smash Bros. as a playable character. (Stuff like Plusle & Minun as a pairing is acceptable, but NO TRAINERS.) And please, no flame wars or anything over anyone else's picks.

I'll start:
Gen 1: Mewtwo
Gen 2: Scizor
Gen 3: Blaziken
Gen 4: Lucario
Gen 5: Zoroark
Gen 6: Greninja
Gen 7: Decidueye

Mandatory: Pikachu

Gen I: Mewtwo
Gen II: Ursaring
Gen III: Shiftry
Gen IV: Lucario
Gen V: Chandelure
Gen VI: Greninja
Gen VII: Decidueye

Retained Mewtwo, Greninja, and Lucario because I think they're all great to have. For Johto, Hoenn, and Unova I just let personal bias speak for itself because in this scenario I could.

 

[Pokechu]

(Unless we did this hundreds of pages ago,) Let's play a game. The roster of playable Pokémon in Smash Bros. is completely reset with the exception of Pikachu, the series mascot. Your job is to put in a sole representative from each generation into Smash Bros. as a playable character. (Stuff like Plusle & Minun as a pairing is acceptable, but NO TRAINERS.) And please, no flame wars or anything over anyone else's picks.

I'll start:
Gen 1: Mewtwo
Gen 2: Scizor
Gen 3: Blaziken
Gen 4: Lucario
Gen 5: Zoroark
Gen 6: Greninja
Gen 7: Decidueye

Gen 1: Forget the rules. Squirtle AND Ivysaur! Oh, and Jynx too. If three is a stretch then make Squirtle and Ivysaur a tag team. I just love my babies. You can't make me pick just one >:V
Gen 2: Azumarill
Gen 3: Mawile
Gen 4: Lopunny
Gen 5: Stoutland
Gen 6: Sylveon
Gen 7: Bewear

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

(Unless we did this hundreds of pages ago,) Let's play a game. The roster of playable Pokémon in Smash Bros. is completely reset with the exception of Pikachu, the series mascot. Your job is to put in a sole representative from each generation into Smash Bros. as a playable character. (Stuff like Plusle & Minun as a pairing is acceptable, but NO TRAINERS.) And please, no flame wars or anything over anyone else's picks.

I'll start:
Gen 1: Mewtwo
Gen 2: Scizor
Gen 3: Blaziken
Gen 4: Lucario
Gen 5: Zoroark
Gen 6: Greninja
Gen 7: Decidueye

1: Mewtwo
2: Scizor
3: Deoxys
4: Lucario
5: Genesect
6: Greninja
7: Decidueye

 

[92MilesPrower]

1: Mewtwo
2: Scizor
3: Deoxys
4: Lucario
5: Genesect
6: Greninja
7: Decidueye

I was actually debating on whether to have Genesect or Zoroark for gen 5, but I picked Zoroark out of the two since I had already picked Scizor, since Genesect is also Bug/Steel. But then again I have 2 Dark types and 2 Fighting types. To each their own.

 

[Sonic Poke]

(Unless we did this hundreds of pages ago,) Let's play a game. The roster of playable Pokémon in Smash Bros. is completely reset with the exception of Pikachu, the series mascot. Your job is to put in a sole representative from each generation into Smash Bros. as a playable character. (Stuff like Plusle & Minun as a pairing is acceptable, but NO TRAINERS.) And please, no flame wars or anything over anyone else's picks.

Gen 1: Snorlax or Dragonite
Gen 2: Donphan
Gen 3: Deoxys
Gen 4: Lucario
Gen 5: Samurott
Gen 6: Delphox or Braxien
Gen 7: Decidueye

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Can we have Diskun for Smash, please Sakurai, hear my prayers.

(And thunderblight Ganon but that's a far fetched dream too)

 

[PeridotGX]

(Unless we did this hundreds of pages ago,) Let's play a game. The roster of playable Pokémon in Smash Bros. is completely reset with the exception of Pikachu, the series mascot. Your job is to put in a sole representative from each generation into Smash Bros. as a playable character. (Stuff like Plusle & Minun as a pairing is acceptable, but NO TRAINERS.) And please, no flame wars or anything over anyone else's picks.

I'll start:
Gen 1:
Gen 2: Scizor
Gen 3: Blaziken
Gen 4: Lucario
Gen 5: Zoroark
Gen 6: Greninja
Gen 7: Decidueye

Gen 1: Squirtle
Gen 2: Scizor/Heracross
Gen 3: Grovyle (Spin-Off rep)
Gen 4: Weavile
Gen 5: Sawk
Gen 6: Hoopa (Normal form)
Gen 7: Decidueye

 

[Diddy Kong]

and she's still surpassed him in importance imo

Truth, but Funky is not a mere side character any more. He has established himself as more than that, and Mario Kart Wii also really helped him with that. In fact, I still believe R.O.B. got in because of Mario Kart DS.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

(Unless we did this hundreds of pages ago,) Let's play a game. The roster of playable Pokémon in Smash Bros. is completely reset with the exception of Pikachu, the series mascot. Your job is to put in a sole representative from each generation into Smash Bros. as a playable character. (Stuff like Plusle & Minun as a pairing is acceptable, but NO TRAINERS.) And please, no flame wars or anything over anyone else's picks.

I'll start:
Gen 1: Mewtwo
Gen 2: Scizor
Gen 3: Blaziken
Gen 4: Lucario
Gen 5: Zoroark
Gen 6: Greninja
Gen 7: Decidueye

Here's my list...

1. Mewtwo
2. Pichu
3. Blaziken
4. Lucario
5. Zoroark
6. Greninja
7. Buzzwole

Yeah I know that most of the choices are the same as that of the quoted user, but truthfully, I was thinking about them anyway.

 

[Zerp]

(Unless we did this hundreds of pages ago,) Let's play a game. The roster of playable Pokémon in Smash Bros. is completely reset with the exception of Pikachu, the series mascot. Your job is to put in a sole representative from each generation into Smash Bros. as a playable character. (Stuff like Plusle & Minun as a pairing is acceptable, but NO TRAINERS.) And please, no flame wars or anything over anyone else's picks.

Gen 1: Charizard
Gen 2: Togepi or Togetic
Gen 3: Jirachi
Gen 4: Lucario
Gen 5: Chandelure
Gen 6: Greninja
Gen 7: Decidueye

 

[Diddy Kong]

Here's my list...

1. Mewtwo
2. Pichu
3. Blaziken
4. Lucario
5. Zoroark
6. Greninja
7. Buzzwole

Yeah I know that most of the choices are the same as that of the quoted user, but truthfully, I was thinking about them anyway.

Pretty much exactly what I would've posted. Thanks for your sense of taste <3

 

[osby]

Gen 1: Mewtwo
Gen 2: Wobbuffet
Gen 3: Blaziken
Gen 4: Lucario
Gen 5: Zoroark
Gen 6: Greninja
Gen 7: Mimikyu

 

[92MilesPrower]

Truth, but Funky is not a mere side character any more. He has established himself as more than that, and Mario Kart Wii also really helped him with that. In fact, I still believe R.O.B. got in because of Mario Kart DS.

Not too sure if MKDS actually helped R.O.B.'s chances in reality, but he was probably likely going to be the WTF retro rep in Brawl regardless of that because of how important and iconic he was for Nintendo back when he was first introduced.

 

[Sage of Ice]

1. Mewtwo
2. Smeargle
3. Blaziken
4. Lucario
5. Genesect
6. Noivern
   
7. Decidueye

and i know it'd never happen but i'd gladly trade in Pikachu for some gen 8 DLC.

 

[MrReyes96]

(Unless we did this hundreds of pages ago,) Let's play a game. The roster of playable Pokémon in Smash Bros. is completely reset with the exception of Pikachu, the series mascot. Your job is to put in a sole representative from each generation into Smash Bros. as a playable character. (Stuff like Plusle & Minun as a pairing is acceptable, but NO TRAINERS.) And please, no flame wars or anything over anyone else's picks.

I'll start:
Gen 1: Mewtwo
Gen 2: Scizor
Gen 3: Blaziken
Gen 4: Lucario
Gen 5: Zoroark
Gen 6: Greninja
Gen 7: Decidueye

Gen 1: Mewtwo
Gen 2: Tyranitar
Gen 3: Sceptile
Gen 4: Lucario
Gen 5: Genesect
Gen 6: Greninja
Gen 7: Incineroar

 

[MasterOfKnees]

(Unless we did this hundreds of pages ago,) Let's play a game. The roster of playable Pokémon in Smash Bros. is completely reset with the exception of Pikachu, the series mascot. Your job is to put in a sole representative from each generation into Smash Bros. as a playable character. (Stuff like Plusle & Minun as a pairing is acceptable, but NO TRAINERS.) And please, no flame wars or anything over anyone else's picks.

I'll start:
Gen 1: Mewtwo
Gen 2: Scizor
Gen 3: Blaziken
Gen 4: Lucario
Gen 5: Zoroark
Gen 6: Greninja
Gen 7: Decidueye

Gen 1: Charizard
Gen 2: Feraligatr
Gen 3: Sceptile
Gen 4: Garchomp
Gen 5: Genesect
Gen 6: Aegislash
Gen 7: Golisopod

Most of these picks are just for fun, would probably do it very differently if it had to be more serious.

 

[Deleted member]

(Unless we did this hundreds of pages ago,) Let's play a game. The roster of playable Pokémon in Smash Bros. is completely reset with the exception of Pikachu, the series mascot. Your job is to put in a sole representative from each generation into Smash Bros. as a playable character. (Stuff like Plusle & Minun as a pairing is acceptable, but NO TRAINERS.) And please, no flame wars or anything over anyone else's picks.

I'll start:
Gen 1: Mewtwo
Gen 2: Scizor
Gen 3: Blaziken
Gen 4: Lucario
Gen 5: Zoroark
Gen 6: Greninja
Gen 7: Decidueye

Unbiased version:

Mascot: Pikachu
Gen 1: Charizard
Gen 2: Heracross
Gen 3: Sceptile
Gen 4: Lucario
Gen 5: Genesect
Gen 6: Greninja
Gen 7: Lycanroc (Dusk)​

Biased version:

Mascot: Pikachu
Gen 1: Mew
Gen 2: Azumarill
Gen 3: Grovyle (PMD)
Gen 4: Lucario
Gen 5: Zoroark
Gen 6: Greninja
Gen 7: Nihilego
​

My unbiased list draws primarily from popularity and anime influence, so all of my picks except Lucario and Genesect ended up being Ash's ace for the region. It's interesting to see the different choices for a Gen 2 representative though.