Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Kamikazek]

The most compelling argument I've seen for an indie fighter is that the idea of Smash is a celebration of all things Nintendo and Nintendo has really been pushing indie games first with the DSi and 3DS and then during the later days of the Wii U and especially with the Switch. You've got stuff like Nindies, games like Undertale getting big exposure in directs, and the Switch/3DS's news feeds and shop channel promoting indie games a lot. "Your favorite indie games on the go" is a huge selling point for the Switch that everyone I know with a Switch has taken advantage of and has been essential in curtailing the lack of third party support problem Nintendo has had on and off since the 64.

Indie games are a big part of Nintendo, whether they're made by Nintendo or not. "The game was developed by Nintendo" is just an arbitrary line to draw for what does and doesn't count as Nintendo history or "feel like" Nintendo anyway, and is more of a legal hurdle than anything.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

The most compelling argument I've seen for an indie fighter is that the idea of Smash is a celebration of all things Nintendo and Nintendo has really been pushing indie games first with the DSi and 3DS and then during the later days of the Wii U and especially with the Switch. You've got stuff like Nindies, games like Undertale getting big exposure in directs, and the Switch/3DS's news feeds and shop channel promoting indie games a lot. "Your favorite indie games on the go" is a huge selling point for the Switch that everyone I know with a Switch has taken advantage of and has been essential in curtailing the lack of third party support problem Nintendo has had on and off since the 64.

Indie games are a big part of Nintendo, whether they're made by Nintendo or not. "The game was developed by Nintendo" is just an arbitrary line to draw for what does and doesn't count as Nintendo history or "feel like" Nintendo anyway, and is more of a legal hurdle than anything.

I honestly think that, due to the nature of the companies that owns the indie characters, the biggest advantage that indies have is that they would probably be easier to negotiate for than adding in a character from any non-indie third-party company ( though I may be wrong about this argument). And it's not as if Sakurai has ever stated anything that indicated he has something against indies.

 

[FlareHabanero]

The funny thing about the whole indie debate is that had we had this type of discussion 3 years ago, I'd be constantly arguing against the indie characters... but at this point, I really don't care. When Geno of all characters was seriously considered and wanted, I doubt icon status would be a significant disadvantage for any indie character. If we get, say, Sans of all characters, I'll just shrug my shoulders and move on. We already have a third-party character who isn't exactly a major video game icon and Geno who could have been a third-party character inclusion in Brawl or Smash 4 had Square been more okay with it. One more "small" third-party character isn't going to make a difference.

The Geno situation in particular makes me question the whole "third party" thing in general. For a long time I assumed they would only be interested in seeking after "the big boys" in the industry. You know, Pac-Man, Sonic, Mega Man, that type of thing. But the fact Sakurai flat out stated that he wanted Geno playable of all the possible choices out there kind throws a wrench into the perspective of third parties choices.

Granted Geno is part of the Mario series, so he is in a bit of a grey area in a sense. But at the same time, it does bring up what the actual limits are when it comes to third parties, if such a minor third party character can still be desired by Sakurai.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I mean I kind of agree with the sentiments of an overabundance of 3rd parties makes it less special. Pac-Man, Sonic, Ryu etc are all great video game icons so I'm okay with them but I know the moment Master Chief, despite being an incredibly big video game star, gets in Smash will feel weirdly wrong. It's a weird mindset because even if he got in, or even Steve from Minecraft, would it REALLY take away my enjoyment of the core game?

Doubtful. Yet here we are with this mentality that certain third parties could somehow ruin the feel of the game. Hell, I really really love Tails. Like outside my username characters Tails is pretty much my favourite video game character, and yet part of my deranged mindset is telling me that Tails getting in would somehow ruin the game despite him being a pretty fantastic character and someone I'd have infinitely more fun playing as than Decidueye, Springman or Rex and Pyra. It's very very strange.

(Unless we did this hundreds of pages ago,) Let's play a game. The roster of playable Pokémon in Smash Bros. is completely reset with the exception of Pikachu, the series mascot. Your job is to put in a sole representative from each generation into Smash Bros. as a playable character. (Stuff like Plusle & Minun as a pairing is acceptable, but NO TRAINERS.) And please, no flame wars or anything over anyone else's picks.

I'll start:
Gen 1: Mewtwo
Gen 2: Scizor
Gen 3: Blaziken
Gen 4: Lucario
Gen 5: Zoroark
Gen 6: Greninja
Gen 7: Decidueye

Also I had to do this. Meowth would have been a great counterpart to Pikachu back in Smash 64. Sigh, what we could have had...

Gen 1: Meowth
Gen 2: Feraligatr
Gen 3: Blaziken
Gen 4: Lucario
Gen 5: Timburr
Gen 6: Chesnaught
Gen 7: Cosmog - Yeah I don't know how it'd work either.

 

[Diddy Kong]

So which retro characters you guys think is likely? Am torn between Balloon Fighter and Takamaru. Both have things going against them, as Balllon Fighter is represented by Villager's Up B, and Takamaru is an Assist Trophy.

There's also Mr. Hanafuda of course!

 

[YoshiandToad]

So which retro characters you guys think is likely? Am torn between Balloon Fighter and Takamaru. Both have things going against them, as Balllon Fighter is represented by Villager's Up B, and Takamaru is an Assist Trophy.

There's also Mr. Hanafuda of course!

Probably just those two...maybe Excitebiker, but I'd rather we got a stage to represent that series. Crusade's one is one my favourites.

Personally Clu Clu Land's Bubbles seems like she could be a lot of fun; a moveset based off of momentum building could be pretty interesting....

 

[A Distant Demon]

So which retro characters you guys think is likely? Am torn between Balloon Fighter and Takamaru. Both have things going against them, as Balllon Fighter is represented by Villager's Up B, and Takamaru is an Assist Trophy.

There's also Mr. Hanafuda of course!

Whoever smash fans don't expect.

 

[-crump-]

So which retro characters you guys think is likely? Am torn between Balloon Fighter and Takamaru. Both have things going against them, as Balllon Fighter is represented by Villager's Up B, and Takamaru is an Assist Trophy.

Sticking to my guns on this one; I still think Excitebiker and Balloon Fighter are the most likely candidates. Both games are still referenced frequently, and both characters have designs that are at least recognizable to the average Nintendo fan. Takumaru is in a weird spot; his game came out in the West, but he’s still reeeally unknown outside of Japan.

There's also Mr. Hanafuda of course!

Hijacking other people’s accounts is not okay, @BluePikmin11

 

[Kamikazek]

Whoever smash fans don't expect.

I could honestly see Sakurai just picking the retro character that did the worst on the ballot figuring that'll surprise the most people. It seems like something he would do.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Whoever smash fans don't expect.

Boy I can't wait for the protagonist of Time Twist: Rekishi no Katasumi de to be playable. A moveset revolving around possession sounds novel.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

Here comes a new challenge! Well, its been a good few years, Smash speculators. I figured it was inevitable I'd come back for the new Smash 5 cycle, despite my discrepancies towards the community as a whole. Welp, any of you vets recognize my old tag? If so, welcome!

Whoever smash fans don't expect.

How about an composite sportsman who's moveset revolves around all the Nintendo NES & Arcade sports titles?

Boy I can't wait for the protagonist of Time Twist: Rekishi no Katasumi de to be playable. A moveset revolving around possession sounds novel.

TBH, I have a Dark Matter concept that kinda implements this for a few moves.

 

[Freduardo]

Whoever smash fans don't expect.

Mike Anderson (Battleclash).

The super scope has been a Smash icon how long?

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

Whoever smash fans don't expect.

Would a character from Zangeki no Regnileiv qualify?

 

[Hammer B]

I wanted this guy as the NES representative, but then I learnt that his was not owned by Nintendo.

 

[Wyoming]

I wanted this guy as the NES representative, but then I learnt that his was not owned by Nintendo.

Excellent representation of Smash speculation in this thread

 

[Wyoming]

Whoever smash fans don't expect.

Always knew Virtual Boy for Smash was happening

edit: wait did nobody post in that time for real, hum bug

 

[TheLastJinjo]

So which retro characters you guys think is likely? Am torn between Balloon Fighter and Takamaru. Both have things going against them, as Balllon Fighter is represented by Villager's Up B, and Takamaru is an Assist Trophy.

There's also Mr. Hanafuda of course!

If Excitebike is considered retro, then definitely him.

However, Excitebike is in a similar situation to Little Mac. He's had a sequel on N64 as well as a Wii game in 2009. Usually, a true retro is someone who's only ever had one game. So I think we're going to get Excitebike and Takamaru. I know Takamaru is Japan Only, but there's a shortage of retros as well as acknowledged popularity for Takamaru with a Mii Costume and Virtua Console release.

I would say Balloon Fighter is the most likely retro, especially as a tribute to Iwata, but he would be VERY difficult to balance. I think it could be done, but it would be very hard. Villager's up special pretty much encompasses Balloon Fighter's unique play style, so it would seem turning that move into a separate fighter instead would not be necessary.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

I wanted this guy as the NES representative, but then I learnt that his was not owned by Nintendo.

Not sure whether its a consolatory group glomp or the anticipation of a restraining dogpile. Doesn't it make you just fuzz up inside?

 

[FlareHabanero]

Welp, any of you vets recognize my old tag? If so, welcome!

You look vaguely familiar. Were you the same person that was pushing for Robin during the Smash Wii U/3DS speculation era?

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

You look vaguely familiar. Were you the same person that was pushing for Robin during the Smash Wii U/3DS speculation era?

Funnily enough, I banked hard on Chrom up until Robin was announced. Although I did laud him.

But yes, I am dated back to the Smash 4 spec cycle. I stopped posting c. 2015 only to haunt the board once on meager vows of returning. Does 'Captain Hotcakes' ring any bells?

 

[FlareHabanero]

Funnily enough, I banked hard on Chrom up until Robin was announced. Although I did laud him.

But yes, I am dated back to the Smash 4 spec cycle. I stopped posting c. 2015 only to haunt the board once on meager vows of returning. Does 'Captain Hotcakes' ring any bells?

Captain Hotcakes, that's it! I knew you from years ago. Actually I remember getting angry at you (I think it was you) in the Robin general and got banned for it. That was a long time ago though so I might be remembering wrong.

Then again it doesn't help that I was going through one of those frustrating periods and was at a boiling point.

 

[Freduardo]

Always knew Virtual Boy for Smash was happening

edit: wait did nobody post in that time for real, hum bug

I will.

If Virtual Boy got a rep, who would you want?

Nester (Funky Bowling)? Harry (Teleroboxer)? Someone else I’m not thinking of?

 

[92MilesPrower]

Funnily enough, I banked hard on Chrom up until Robin was announced. Although I did laud him.

But yes, I am dated back to the Smash 4 spec cycle. I stopped posting c. 2015 only to haunt the board once on meager vows of returning. Does 'Captain Hotcakes' ring any bells?

I used to have some garbage username like ChaosWafflez04 or something? (I never want to look at or read or type that name ever again, PERIOD.) But I think I kind of remember you being around during the Smash 4 speculation period.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

Heh, thanks guys! I think I only recall FlareHabanero. I recognize a couple of the same mods arose from the same stock as we along those years.

 

[DraginHikari]

I honestly think that, due to the nature of the companies that owns the indie characters, the biggest advantage that indies have is that they would probably be easier to negotiate for than adding in a character from any non-indie third-party company ( though I may be wrong about this argument). And it's not as if Sakurai has ever stated anything that indicated he has something against indies.

Primarily the main thing that would make it easier with a indie developer is the sheer lack of red tape a indie developer would have in general. Working for a major corporation myself, the thing that generally makes everything run slower the sheer number of authorizations and procedures required to take any particular action. Most indies don't have giant legal teams or publishers with massive overhead to bog down the process. As far as the actual cost, I'm not sure how much of a difference you would have between a regular situation and an indie.

The Geno situation in particular makes me question the whole "third party" thing in general. For a long time I assumed they would only be interested in seeking after "the big boys" in the industry. You know, Pac-Man, Sonic, Mega Man, that type of thing. But the fact Sakurai flat out stated that he wanted Geno playable of all the possible choices out there kind throws a wrench into the perspective of third parties choices.

Granted Geno is part of the Mario series, so he is in a bit of a grey area in a sense. But at the same time, it does bring up what the actual limits are when it comes to third parties, if such a minor third party character can still be desired by Sakurai.

Prior to Smash 4 DLC it probably would be a fair assumption to make due nearly all the 3rd parties were iconic characters in one way or another. Now it's a bit harder to say. The biggest thing is Nintendo hasn't had a whole bunch of new properties in recent years so they're going to need to be either creative with new character choices from the past or utilize outside sources a bit more.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Heh, thanks guys! I think I only recall FlareHabanero. I recognize a couple of the same mods arose from the same stock as we along those years.

Ya don't even remember me?




Also guys...

How many characters from the ballot do you think will happen?

 

[DraginHikari]

Ya don't even remember me?




Also guys...

How many characters from the ballot do you think will happen?

It's kind of hard to say, Nintendo is kind of in a different position this time around. There hasn't been a huge ton of new properties to pull from since Smash 4. So they may need to be creative with their new character choices in general whether seeking older characters or ones that have existed in the span.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ya don't even remember me?




Also guys...

How many characters from the ballot do you think will happen?

About 3~4 max, and I doubt they are gonna be loud about the fact these characters got in because of the ballot. We'll have to guess them ourselves I imagine.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

Ya don't even remember me?




Also guys...

How many characters from the ballot do you think will happen?

Of course I remember ya, Swamp! You were pretty integral to a lot of the discussion & management 'round here. Though I suppose you still are.

 

[92MilesPrower]

I wonder if we'll ever see the ballot results at all, I really wanna see if Goku and Shrek were actually in the top 5 in the US lmao

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

That is, assuming they didn't prune the results for public record. 'Realizable' characters & what not.

 

[92MilesPrower]

That is, assuming they didn't prune the results for public record. 'Realizable' characters & what not.

That and "Negotiable."

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

I will be seriously tempted to quit Smash for the rest of my life if we ever get a 4th party.

 

[Deleted member]

The true Pokémon newcomer we deserve.

Totem Hakamo-o.

I will be seriously tempted to quit Smash for the rest of my life if we ever get a 4th party.

Good thing no such thing exists.

 

[DraginHikari]

I will be seriously tempted to quit Smash for the rest of my life if we ever get a 4th party.

Huh? What's a 4th party character?

 

[Deleted member]

Huh? What's a 4th party character?

A 3rd party character that is from non-video game media.
Because people wanted to make up some way to describe them and have no idea how legal classifications work.

 

[SSBBDaisy]

Is there a thread or some place I can go to where I can view smash 5 leaks without having to look for them through hundreds of pages in a general thread?

 

[92MilesPrower]

I will be seriously tempted to quit Smash for the rest of my life if we ever get a 4th party.

Smash Bros., even though it was originally a celebration of just everything Nintendo, is now more of a celebration of gaming's finest (as long as they have a history or connection with Nintendo), and a 4th party would end up completely ruining it all. Goku might be one of the greatest Anime and Manga characters of all time, but he doesn't belong in a video game with some of the greatest video game characters of all time. The spotlight is on video games, not everything that ever existed.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

Okay, so at least when you stay within the source medium, the prospective gamer will have a set parameter or expectation for which characters they will be able to tolerate. Like, I don't really like Cloud, but I totally can swallow him showing up. Throw that out & all hell break's loose. Leave it to Soul Calibur, folks.

Unless you have Guts or Artouria Pendragon on the table, don't come knockin' on my shed.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Prior to Smash 4 DLC it probably would be a fair assumption to make due nearly all the 3rd parties were iconic characters in one way or another. Now it's a bit harder to say. The biggest thing is Nintendo hasn't had a whole bunch of new properties in recent years so they're going to need to be either creative with new character choices from the past or utilize outside sources a bit more.

Nintendo has had new properties between Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS and this new installment, the issue is that they're more minor experimental games like Ever Oasis and Sushi Striker, so they don't have that much of an impact in the grand scheme of things. The most notable one is ARMS for obvious reasons, being purposely designed as a new IP to highlight the new Switch hardware.

It's also likely that Rhythm Heaven will get a new character, just by the fact that filenames hinted it was originally planned for the Wii U/3DS installment but was dropped. Plus more out there choices purposely done for the sake of variety. In fact I would not be surprised if this is the installment where the characters purposely dismissed in the past for being too obscure were given another chance, similar to how characters that were dismissed from being "not fit for fighting" like Villager and Miis were given a chance.

As for third parties, I would also not be surprised if they become more lenient of what third parties can come in. But I would bet that something from Bandai Namco, SEGA, or Capcom in particular would be the most convenient, having a flexible roster of IPs to choose from and having close ties to all three in some fashion. I cannot say what third parties though, that's the hard part.