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Smash UK Discussion Thread - Check first post for tournaments, facebook info and videos!
- Thread starter Fuzzyness
- Start date
Heartstring
Smash Legend
well, i currently use sheik, so yeah
gm jack
Smash Lord
I don't think they are actually that easy to use. They both rely on heavy punishment games and good spacing to keep up with the top tiers, and they both get comboed really heavily by all the top/high tiers.
Unless you can turn that grab into a lot every single time and/or can get them on decent players, you tend to just get hit around by anyone who knows the match ups.
Unless you can turn that grab into a lot every single time and/or can get them on decent players, you tend to just get hit around by anyone who knows the match ups.
cong
Smash Journeyman
Jiggs is not the easiest? you ****ting me? please do explain.
Yeniths
East Midlands!
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2008
- Messages
- 1,987
they get combo'd easy?
you mentioned Fox being the easiest, like everyone in the game can 0-death fox =/
Sheik and Marth own mid level smash, it takes a good players to get them to a high standard but it's easy to get to a mid level with them as they have easy combos really lol
Also random question to GM Jack...how do you know Jack snell LOL?
you mentioned Fox being the easiest, like everyone in the game can 0-death fox =/
Sheik and Marth own mid level smash, it takes a good players to get them to a high standard but it's easy to get to a mid level with them as they have easy combos really lol
Also random question to GM Jack...how do you know Jack snell LOL?
gm jack
Smash Lord
I don't think they own mid level smash any more, especially with how much better the average player is. They only really dominate low level play, when people don't do simple things like CC everything sheik can do (falco can CC her ftilt past 70%).
EDIT
Jiggs requires really good spacing, and is quite slow unless you really know what you are doing. Resting again, is only really that good is you are good at it. In addition, she can die really quickly with good di, and ******** early with bad di.
And jack added me, and I saw mutual friends who were smashers. Presumed I met him at a tournament and forgot him.
EDIT
Jiggs requires really good spacing, and is quite slow unless you really know what you are doing. Resting again, is only really that good is you are good at it. In addition, she can die really quickly with good di, and ******** early with bad di.
And jack added me, and I saw mutual friends who were smashers. Presumed I met him at a tournament and forgot him.
cong
Smash Journeyman
Nah i don't see it, jiggs looks by far the easiest to learn to get to a mid level.
Heartstring
Smash Legend
jigss is the easiest one to just pick up, which is what i would be donig should i get into melee
although i dislike floaty characters, compared to brawl jiggly has a relatively normall fallspeed
this means less buttons to push
this means less chance of me messing up an input
although i dislike floaty characters, compared to brawl jiggly has a relatively normall fallspeed
this means less buttons to push
this means less chance of me messing up an input
Tamoo
Smash Master
looool about Jack Snell adding you rofl, he ain't a smasher. That's kinda creepy
And jiggs is a ***** to pick up. If you're playing crap people, any character is as good as another tbh. At mid level, if people are prepared to play gay, it's not fun at all, which is why I'm slowly phasing her out as people are indeed prepared to play gay.
If you're talking about tech skill, then obviously jiggs is a pisstake but you have to make up for that deficiency in her game with other areas in order to keep up. The only characters I feel are hard to pick up in general are fox and falco as they get punished so hard at a lower level, but all other good characters are just as easy/hard to pick up to me.
And jiggs is a ***** to pick up. If you're playing crap people, any character is as good as another tbh. At mid level, if people are prepared to play gay, it's not fun at all, which is why I'm slowly phasing her out as people are indeed prepared to play gay.
If you're talking about tech skill, then obviously jiggs is a pisstake but you have to make up for that deficiency in her game with other areas in order to keep up. The only characters I feel are hard to pick up in general are fox and falco as they get punished so hard at a lower level, but all other good characters are just as easy/hard to pick up to me.
Tamoo
Smash Master
That guy needs to be kept on a leash, did she accept?
I got a message from him the other day asking if he 'can be part of our friendship group. He gets depressed when he sees us talking and isn't part of the convo'. Hoping he'll interpret me not replying as the answer to his question.
I got a message from him the other day asking if he 'can be part of our friendship group. He gets depressed when he sees us talking and isn't part of the convo'. Hoping he'll interpret me not replying as the answer to his question.
L-J
Smash Ace
For real the best 'mid-level' character is Falcon - just like, knee stuff and you win. I've seen it, that shit's waaaaaay easy to do.
If we're being serious, what even is mid-level play? Am I a mid-level player? Cus if I am there's no doubt fox is the easiest character to do well with without having much talent at the game. If you put the time in to learn the tech stuff and play gay like I do (when I decide to which is almost never) with platform-bair-nair-laser camping you can do extremely well without actually being very good at the game. For real.
If we're being serious, what even is mid-level play? Am I a mid-level player? Cus if I am there's no doubt fox is the easiest character to do well with without having much talent at the game. If you put the time in to learn the tech stuff and play gay like I do (when I decide to which is almost never) with platform-bair-nair-laser camping you can do extremely well without actually being very good at the game. For real.
L-J
Smash Ace
loooooooool!
I should add that Jiggs being the best character to pick up for a completely new Melee player and do best with is the biggest misconception out there. She is trash except at a highish level when she becomes top tier (3rd as she currently is is correct imo). Sheik and Marth are better for this purpose, but if said Newb wants to get beasted on least hard by a half-decent but not amazing player their best bet is usually Peach, as some of those d-smashes will hit and a few can be enough to rack up some percent.
The terms 'half-decent', 'amazing', 'mid-level', etc are all very subjective as well which doesn't aid this discussion. I know in my mind roughly what I mean by them but others may think quite differently.
Professor Pro
Smash Legend
Saying fox is the easiest character in the game to pick up and be good with at mid level is the silliest thing next to you being a Smash Debater.
It's blantanly Shiek/Marth....and Marth and Sheik get really combo'd by Top/High tiers and Fox doesn't????.....Fox gets combo'd ***** the worst or one of the worst in the game.
You don't have to rely on grabs at Mid-Level play to be good with them as much as you do on high level play.
You're not a good Smash Debator.
And Mid-Level to me in the situation is implying to me being sorta nooby but understanding the game and still learning....I wouldn't of referred to you L-J as mid level in this incident, as the discussion was originally Golden-Psyco or GM-Jack saying something about picking up a character and just play fox because he's the easiest character to play at Mid-Level.
Tamoo
Smash Master
Yeah that's what I was interpreting as mid level, the vague area under the likes of aaron and charles basically.
L-J
Smash Ace
Taking Tamao's definition then I'd take the fact that silly numbers of players have Fox as a pocket second as main evidence of the ease of using him at that kind of level. It's tempting to think Marth and Sheik are easier but as Jack said they rely far more on reads and punishing after they get something started. Fox just lasers and Bairs and Nairs and wins. Lol.
And shines sometimes.
And shines sometimes.
gm jack
Smash Lord
Mid level play implies that you can do the standard combos and tech skill. Once you can shffl, wd etc with fox, he has a great damage output with a mix of fairly guarenteed and more improvised combos, is stupid fast and kills really well. Shine also gives the mid level spacies a nice crutch to deal with mis spacings or having approaches crouch cancelled.
Although they can be comboed hard, fox is fast, powerful and always has good options. Sheik and marth on the other hand have a few great strengths but generally have less options. With newer players, this can very easily lead to spamming the few good things until they really begin to understand spacing and how to create openings. Fox always has good options, and enough that he can play however the player wants, and isn't as constrained as others.
Although they can be comboed hard, fox is fast, powerful and always has good options. Sheik and marth on the other hand have a few great strengths but generally have less options. With newer players, this can very easily lead to spamming the few good things until they really begin to understand spacing and how to create openings. Fox always has good options, and enough that he can play however the player wants, and isn't as constrained as others.
Tamoo
Smash Master
yeah I too agree that fox is one of the easier mid level characters. I still believe that at low level, it's a really hard character choice though but it's the kind of character you've got to take a lot of beatings as to learn efficiently. Then it obviously gets a lot harder as all characters to break into the top bracket of players.
VA
Smash Hero
What about Peach? Dsmash...nothing else. What about *****ly puff? Uthrow Rest? Come on.
Mid level play is about the things that deliver biggest gains for least effort. All aobut that peach and jigglypuff, and to some extent shiek.
Marth ****ing sucks at mid level play, he's solidly hard to be remotely good as and has very little in the way of eaysness.
Mid level play is about the things that deliver biggest gains for least effort. All aobut that peach and jigglypuff, and to some extent shiek.
Marth ****ing sucks at mid level play, he's solidly hard to be remotely good as and has very little in the way of eaysness.
Heartstring
Smash Legend
well, ive been using sheik, but im so low level im underneath pichu in the tier list XD
jjlinyard
Smash Ace
define mid-level then decide....
VA
Smash Hero
That makes me mid-level (under prof and charles).
Peach is solid to use at high level, marth and sheik too. Fox is really hard to use but has a lot of brokenly good rewards, falco is easy and falcon is pretty much free as **** for robotic noobs.
Peach is solid to use at high level, marth and sheik too. Fox is really hard to use but has a lot of brokenly good rewards, falco is easy and falcon is pretty much free as **** for robotic noobs.
L-J
Smash Ace
Agree that Marth sucks, disagree that Falco is easy to use while Fox is hard...
Bullet Bill
Smash Master
sheik, doc and jiggs are all fairly easy to use. Peach isn't that bad either
V.A.- you're probably more top than mid
rustediron
Smash Lord
lol doc
There's a reason it took years and years of play for jigglypuff players to even start winning tournaments. Jiggs SUCKS at low/mid levels, she's so slow and floaty and lacks a good approach that you're basically required to be really really good with spacing and pressure to actually compete with other more solid characters.
Also at mid-level jigglypuff players tend to spam a lot more than most other mains I find, which is just a lot easier to deal with since they overlook a lot of openings they create without even realising it.
lol! Made my day.
This.
The question is really ambiguous. What is "best for mid-level"? I don't just mean skill level. I also mean stuff like, best for improving with, or best for placing with? Mid-level vs who? Vs other people of your caliber or vs top players? (this makes a big difference I find when, e.g. I think at a low level marth vs fox is strongly in marth's favour but it's obviously not the same case with a good fox)
For example I think Marth is very effective at a low level vs other low level players, when I first started playing I dual mained Falco/Marth but mostly used Marth in tournament because everyone at my level was REALLY bad and I could beat other people who were using spacies by spamming shffl fairs/nairs and just edgeguarding with fsmash/shield breaker. However, when I played better people I usually just went falco and did slightly better lol. I found that my marth did worse vs good people even though he's harder to combo because of the speed difference.
Despite how well I was doing vs other people of my level, I wasn't actually improving much at all. I don't think Marth is easy to improve with at all at a low level, eventually lots of your gay stuff doesn't work anymore and you need a solid play style to compete with people (I think it's difficult to develop a strong marth playstyle). A lot of people I used to beat just improved and started beating me (I got absolutely wrecked at ph2 for example I think I lost every set in my pool).
When I played Sheik I found that it was still easy to beat low/mid players since she's faster and lots of her dumb **** still works, I was beating people who I previously lost to with a character I'd played for a few days (compared to playing marth for a year and still losing...). vs high level players was the same story as marth though, sheik is HARD at that level when you're fighting good people, do not kid yourself by thinking you'll do better with sheik vs someone good because she's "easy", that's complete bs. But most importantly I found that unlike marth, sheik's set-ups were easier to understand, and she was significantly easier to improve with, meaning I could slowly create a solid playstyle and compete on a higher level over time.
I think a lot of people should choose who they play on a low-level by thinking long term like this, rather than who it's easier to beat noobs with (like that really matters lol...)
I'm still trying to improve really badly, I play a lot every week (usually a little bit every day) trying out new stuff and figuring out what I'm doing wrong, but I think if I stayed marth I wouldn't have improved much at all even *if* I placed better with him at the time simply because I find it's a lot easier to improve with sheik. I don't know why, but no matter how much I focus on fighting falco I just blow vs him lol, though I hope that'll eventually stop.
btw I think the best chars at a mid-level are falco/sheik (I feel that these characters are strong choices to improve with), though they may not necessarily place better at first. I feel that jiggs is similar to marth (wrecks at a low-level but is difficult to improve with). Obviously though it can vary a little bit from person to person, e.g. even though I think falco is a good choice to improve with, it doesn't work out like that for me.
tl;dr I think you should choose a "low-level" character based on how easily you can improve with them, not how well you can place with them.
Heartstring
Smash Legend
i think we should jsut go with that the tier list still sorta applies for mid level or sumthin
wow, its surprising how little **** i give after jogging -__-
wow, its surprising how little **** i give after jogging -__-
Tamoo
Smash Master
Nah jogging at midnights how I roll
Bullet Bill
Smash Master
I'm not just saying it cos it's me- it's true
Heartstring
Smash Legend
what if i jog morning and afternoon?
yeah didnt think of that did you!
yes, i am insane
gm jack
Smash Lord
Doing it isn't hard in itself. Doing in a game situation and getting something from it (likely a grab) is the hard bit.
Tamoo
Smash Master
such a killjoy
gm jack
Smash Lord
Just make sure you can wd, sh nair etc really quickly so you don't let the openings go to waste. Though don't assume a power shield will give you a free hit, because some falcos learn to deal with the power shields pretty well.
Professor Pro
Smash Legend
I thought that a powershield earned you a guaranteed kill, but thanks to the great and mighty Smash Debater I now know different 
gm jack
Smash Lord
Nah, the grab is the guaranteed kill.
Always.
Every character.
Always.
Every character.