Smash UK Discussion Thread - Check first post for tournaments, facebook info and videos!

[Professor Pro]

Hugo- if you don't like brawl then play melee and don't talk about it. Melee players flaming brawl was getting old about 2 years ago

Similar to how old you jumping in at every situation to moan at someone and escalate the situation further then it was initially gonna go has got over the last of the Bullet Bill life span.

 

[rustediron]

SSB4 is clearly just going to be like brawl but without all the weird **** and without tripping

 

[Heartstring]

wierd **** being what? it needs slightly more hitstun, enough so tht you cant get punished for sucessfully landing an attack at times -__-

 

[rustediron]

snakedashing, banana loops, crazy pikachu up-b round the stage thundering, etc.

 

[Heartstring]

so, similar to how stuff like waveshining and the like was removed?
stnading infinites need removing, and tripping, slightly higher levels of stun in certain moves and that about it
oh, and for meta knight to either be slower or have no power

 

[rustediron]

Yes, exactly.

They're just going to continue the trend of making the games more noob-friendly, reducing movement options, making it easier to hit people, but at the same time adjusting other game aspects so that it matter less that you do get hit.

 

[VA]

Yes, exactly.

They're just going to continue the trend of making the games more noob-friendly, reducing movement options, making it easier to hit people, but at the same time adjusting other game aspects so that it matter less that you do get hit.

Under what assumptions are you claiming that SSB4 will be more noob-friendly?

Speculation about the Wii 2 suggests that it will be an attempt to recapture nintendo's appeal to hardcore gaming.

Despite the fact that Sakurai said that a) he'll never make smash again b) he'll never make a melee-esque interpretation of smash again, we might yet be in for a more competitive interpretation of smash. I'm holding out hope. If SSB4 in any way mimics Brawl (which I'm sorry but is not as deep/competitive as melee, there is no debate), I will not play it.

In the case of Wii 2 being more hardcore oriented, I expect one of two things:

1) Nintendo remakes melee, online play and more stages characters (originally they planned to do this instead of making brawl).

2) The new smash is different to melee yet provides a good competitive interpretation of the game with integrated online functionality like they have in the SF4 series.

Otherwise? Nintendo will continue to play to the family market of ****e and consign SSB4 to the evolutionary dustbin that Brawl belongs in.

 

[Heartstring]

i can see a potential brawl/melee arguement going down

brawl is less mobile in some areas and more in others, a.k.a: the mobility options are different, me trying to move around in melee like i do in brawl and you doing vice versa would results in it looking akin to a downie playing the game.
various techs and such are character specific in brawl, whereas a fair few of them are completely general in melee (re: wavedash)

no-one currently talking knows all the extreme depths of BOTH games, so none of us can accurately say which one is better

tl;dr: everyone here lacks the knowledge of both games to accurately say which is best

 

[rustediron]

Why would Nintendo decide to abandon a completely working marketing strategy that put them back on par with Sony and Microsoft?

 

[jjlinyard]

To stay true to their routes and prove that they can still **** the gaming industry with hardcore gaming + i reckon they may just do both?? I mean spesh with xbox and playstation heading that way it seems...

Also yeah melee 2 with online would be fine as long as it wasnt brawl online quality.

 

[Heartstring]

well, with the amount of storage space they are beginning to put on discs for games, imagine if they made a smash game, with two modes, one that handled similar to brawl, and one similar to melee

brb, jsut came XD

 

[Jolteon]

yea I think it'd be best if they did what xbox did, have games that appeal to hardcore gamers and release something like kinnect for casuals

 

[rustediron]

I just don't see that as a sound move, from a marketing perspective.

With the Wii, Nintendo moved their target audience to young teenagers/children/families, which allowed them to stay away from direct competition with Sony and Microsoft. Obviously both companies have tried, since then, to expand their audience in order to remove Nintendo from this stronghold that it so sneakily took, right under their eyes, but as of yet they've been met with limited success.

Whilst the move towards this new audience has, however, left Nintendo with a lot of experience developing game geared towards casual gamer, they're now sorely lacking in experience dealing with hardcore gamers. Especially seeing that Sony and Microsoft have obviously taken advantage of Nintendo effectively dropping out of their competitive zone, and have since slowly shaped their audience's tastes towards action-filled, graphically stunning, easy-to-control games that they seem to excel at producing.

Look at how many sales trash like Arkham Asylum, Devil May Cry, Final Fantasy XIII, Bayonetta, Gears of War and COD4 get. They all follow a very simple design philosophy, and one that is in tune with the target audience they've managed to engineer.

Even if Nintendo were to release amazing games in the vein of Super Mario 64, Melee, Star Fox, Megaman, Windwaker, Ogre Battle, those amazing Snes RPGs, and Perfect Dark, I just don't think they'd sell, and I'm fairly sure Nintendo understand this as well.

 

[Professor Pro]

Whats the likeliness of SSB4 being released anyway, or isit all just speculation.

 

[Jolteon]

ff13 is alright but the linear aspect sucks

combine it with ff12 and it'd be awesome

 

[VA]

Why would Nintendo decide to abandon a completely working marketing strategy that put them back on par with Sony and Microsoft?

Because sony and microsoft are making moves to encroach on the family market and nintendo had at least some fanbase of hardcore gamers that they've since lost. If they really want to compete in gaming they've can't just sit back and be a family console. It's backwards compatible with wii, so maintains the dull wii game functionality and can simultaneously provide for hardcore, where's the drawback?

Also prof, smash is guaranteed on any nintendo console. It's the best selling game on gamecube and one of the best selling first part games on wii. It makes very little sense NOT to release a new smash.

 

[Heartstring]

a new smash will be released for a new console, its just common logic. although its still a way off, i can bet ill get sunk into that game

 

[L-J]

Hugo I disagree that GOW is trash - it's the only multiplayer game I've ever enjoyed playing competitively other than Melee. Fast, very skilled, tactical but not in a 'stand behind a pillar spamming hammerburst' way. All the things GOW2 failed to be and what GOW3 hopefully will be.

Also I heard Arkham Asylum was actually pretty good? I've never played it though so I'll reserve judgement.

I don't see the point speculating on what Wii2 will be like but for SSB4 I'd be very surprised if it's less competitive than Brawl, as that's pretty hard to do and I really don't mean that in a slating Brawl/trolling way. Reducing hitstun and adding more floatiness would be silly even at the base casual level Nintendo marketed Brawl towards. Maybe they'll prove me wrong though lol - if they do I won't touch it with a barge pole.

Far more likely imo will be improved online play, yet more character/stages/costumes/trophies/blah blah blah but without any significant improvement on play at a competitive level. So yeah, it's unlikely to be worse competitively, but I can't see it being much better. I hope I'm proved wrong.

 

[VA]

I don't see the point speculating on what Wii2 will be like BUT blah blah blah blah

Mainly because it's fun. And being as we've had 3 games in the series now, know the specs of the console, there is some scope for guessing.

Online play only fits into a competitive gaming frame really, because it's not needed otherwise.Wii fit doesn't have online play, neither do any of the hardware/functionality tied games on Wii. Wii 2, I believe, will at least attempt to appeal to hardcore. Which hopefully means we'll get an improved smash.

Hopefully they just update melee with online functions, would be soo sick, better graphics and all that jazz. They like doing that don't they?

 

[Fuzzyness]

too much talk, just wait till it happens rather than hoping

nintendo can do w/e the hell they want

 

[rustediron]

Iunno, I would hate for online melee to kill the offline melee community :S
Like, I know for certain Edwin would stop coming to tournaments LOL

Hugo I disagree that GOW is trash - it's the only multiplayer game I've ever enjoyed playing competitively other than Melee. Fast, very skilled, tactical but not in a 'stand behind a pillar spamming hammerburst' way. All the things GOW2 failed to be and what GOW3 hopefully will be.

I probably shouldn't have said trash; I didn't really mean, or want to emphasise that they weren't good games (though many of them aren't), and it detracted from my main point, which was that the type of games that gamers want has evolved significantly since Nintendo was last trying to market games towards gamers, and that I don't see how Nintendo could hope to keep up with Sony and Microsoft in what has essentially turned into their ballpark.

 

[L-J]

VA - I said I don't see the point in speculating about Wii2, not that I don't see the point in speculating about SSB4, hence why i proceeded to do the latter. People are of course free to do the former but what I've read recently all anyone knows is that it will have a new controller and be more powerful than the 360 and PS3 (both things that seem pretty obvious for any new-gen console, though it's nice to have it semi-confirmed), and considering E3 is just round the corner I'd rather wait for that than randomly speculate lol. SSB4 on the other hand could be a while away - I really hope you're right and they either remake Melee with online, more characters, stages, etc, or make an entirely new SSB which is actually competitively viable (sorry Brawl).

Hugo - fair enough. If Wii2 is considerably more powerful than 360 and PS3 though they could be shifting back towards more of a middle ground between casual and hardcore markets.

Fuzz - oh but there'd just be no fun in that now would there?

 

[jjlinyard]

I would just like to say GOW is beast although if GOW3 is **** i will be soooooo pissed off!!

Think about how ****ing much time will be spent on tournaments (even just ****ty ones) kinda like they try to do on AiB with if they re-create melee with online. Although i dont think that will kill in-person due to the lack of hype compared to in-person......

 

[rustediron]

I wish game companies would just man up and be awesome and give us the source code 10+ years after release.

 

[Heartstring]

why do they need to give them to us when we can get hack them and get them ourselves?

 

[Dimitris]

..because it would be easier.
padda-boom-kssssj

 

[rustediron]

Are you fucking kidding? Just think of how much **** we'd understand about the game with the source code, and how much easier it'd be just to recompile it with the **** we want, rather than tedious trial-and-error hex-editing!

We wouldn't need melee 2.0; we'd make it ourselves!

...I guess I just answered my own question there LOL

 

[smakis]

First off give smash back to hal to whom it belongs, second, if melee was a mistake, imagine what could be done using melee as a base and then intentionally making it even more technical/competetive.

And even if it ends up being a bigger pile of "insert x profanity" than brawl we will still have melee.

 

[Heartstring]

the flaming of brawl, is uneeded gaiz

 

[rustediron]

Whilst those faithless, fatherless, sons of whores that wilt not admit of the glory of melee still there be, our duty compeleth us to cleanse them with fire, and FLAME, might they be redeemed.

...your game is silly, and unneeded. Melee is better in every way. If you disagree with me you're obviously wrong, and your judgements on aesthetics suspect.

Speaking of which, I've always thought Melee vs Brawl discussions focused too much on the games themselves. If we're judging the games on the level of aesthetics (which we must be, if we're talking about which game is 'better' in a non-moral sense), then surely the best way of going about that is by showing that the players of Brawl are silly, and that their judgements shouldn't be trusted?

tl;dr: trololololol

 

[Heartstring]

melee is a good game, so is brawl
i just happen to enjoy brawl more because its the first one i played

 

[jjlinyard]

same except i came to my senses and realised brawl was a lie and melee is the truth.

 

[Fuzzyness]

anyone for smash sometime next week?

 

[Unreal91]

Nintendo NEED to fix up and start thinking about people/communites like this full of hardcore gamers.

If i could choose 1 thing - MAKE MELEE ONLINE (NO LAG OR MINIMAL) with more characters and better graphics but the exact same controls/combos/movements as melee. THAT WOULD BE SICK.

Tourneys could be hosted online, like freindly tournaments with no money involved, and we could play the American's which would be the most awesome part 8) although the only negative is that there will no longer be 300 people screaming hype in GFs lol

Charles, when are you free? im busy next week becuase my birthday but i can play today or tomorrow.

 

[Fuzzyness]

im busy the next 2 days, was looking on playing sometime next week lol

 

[L-J]

Online play would not kill normal tournaments. Look at Quake Live - they have minor cups and leagaues and qualifiers for major tournaments held online but all those major tournaments are still LAN. Besides, there would never be little enough lag to make Melee as viable online as it is currently in person.

 

[SwizzyUK]

Unreal can you get me back my game?
I know it's your birthday coming up, but it wasn't an early present ;)

 

[rustediron]

Iunno, like surely 15 ping is fairly doable these days, and that's like 1 frame

You'd only really need to make sure all the RNGs are synced at the beginning of the match, and then sync controller inputs at the beginning of every frame. Whilst that might be difficult to do with Melee as it is now, it wouldn't be hard for a hypothetical Melee 2.0 surely

though I guess it's like 15 ping for one packet... dunno how fast these things are these days, I don't play online games that much

 

[Jolteon]

I wouldn't mind playing next week charles

 

[VA]

Unreal can you get me back my game?
I know it's your birthday coming up, but it wasn't an early present ;)

lol the veritable phrase book of cheese, love it.