Thegameandwatch
Smash Lord
If it’s confirmed to be a free update then it’s likely in my opinion for the next thing to be Smash 6.
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Official Smash for Switch 2 - Speculation & Discussion Thread
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cashregister9
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Wrong thread, please delete
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I recently came across this video comparing both Smash and Fortnite in terms which crossover video game is bigger.
HyperSomari64
Smash Master
What's Super Robot Wars then?
KillerCage
Smash Master
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How many of the franchises represented in Super Robot War originated as video games?
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You know what? Aerial smash attacks is my number #1 most wanted gameplay change for the next Smash game. Preferably as unique attacks, since it could easily flesh out the veterans.
Hadokeyblade
Smash Legend
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This is where the Huckbein comes in
Lets see off the top of my head:
Megaman
Pacman
Xenosaga
Live-a-Live
Cybertroopers virtual on
Demonsbane
Medabots
Sakura Wars
Namco X Capcom if you want to count Reiji and Xiaomu's playable appearances in a couple of these games.
And debatably "Gaogaigar: Blockaded number" and "Getter Robo: Daikessen" Which are game adaptations of old anime that had their game original content reused in SRW.
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I posted this in the Unpopular Opinions thread, but I think it should be posted here too.
I will say that many movesets don't do Lloyd justice. Especially since Mii Swordfighter actually has a lot of moves that seem exactly like Lloyd's moves.
So I do think a different angle would be needed to make Lloyd stand out. Thankfully the gameplay of Tales of Symphonia has what I think is a great solution. I don't know if you played a Tales of games, but they are very combo based. Each attack isn't supposed to be used by itself. So perhaps these combinations are what could make Lloyd shine.
You mentioned a sword beam (that's Demon Fang) and by itself it's a bog standard projectile attack. Terry's Power Wave already has the "travel along the ground" idea. But Demon Fang is also one of the most basic attacks. In Tales of Symphonia you eventually unlock new versions of old attacks. Some are straight upgrades. Some are side grades and lead to new combos and uses.
Here's a video to show what I mean. Demon Fang is the most basic attacks, but there are different attacks that spins off of it. So what if one press of the button has Lloyd use Demon Fang but two makes Lloyd use Double Demon Fang. Three presses could make him use Demonic Chaos. Or maybe you could hold the button could have Lloyd use Demonic Circle. Perhaps his Up Special could be Tempest, but changing between holding or tapping the button could get you Psi Tempest or regular tempest.
The Tales combo based gameplay shouldn't be given a standard swordie moveset. It should be given the swordie equivalent or Ryu or Kazuya. Lots of moves, each with their own use. I may be biased as Tales of Symphonia is one of my favorite games ever and Lloyd is one of my most wanted characters. But I still think you can do a lot with his tool kit.
Now to be completely fair, you could attach a similar gameplay gimmick to a variety of Tales of characters. Yuri could work in a similar way. But I want Lloyd so...
Hadokeyblade
Smash Legend
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Tales of's combat translates so well into Smash that it makes it such a big question mark as to why it hasn't gotten a character yet.
Thegameandwatch
Smash Lord
Another factor is the fact that lot of the movesets for the character are old like the version in Super Smash Flash who has been in those flash games from the beginning.
I think that’s one reason why he became a popular choice if about requests for people that haven’t played Tales of Symphonia or at least in that era.
SMAASH! Puppy
Smash Legend
Fighter Review: #04 Samus
TLDR: Samus is a stoic bounty hunter with a ton of athleticism, and a huge arsenal in her power armor. Smash captures this well at face value, but I think she’s missing the X factor she has in her home series. Fixing this will require a bit more work than it would on other characters so far, mainly because it will require adding projectiles to her normal attacks in order to make her feel more like a run and gun character.
Because she has trouble capturing her main appeal, Samus earns a C.
Dark Samus gets a B. She’s portrayed just fine, and Samus's moveset problems hurt Dark Samus less, but she doesn’t provide anything mechanically interesting, which isn't ideal.
TLDR: Samus is a stoic bounty hunter with a ton of athleticism, and a huge arsenal in her power armor. Smash captures this well at face value, but I think she’s missing the X factor she has in her home series. Fixing this will require a bit more work than it would on other characters so far, mainly because it will require adding projectiles to her normal attacks in order to make her feel more like a run and gun character.
Because she has trouble capturing her main appeal, Samus earns a C.
Dark Samus gets a B. She’s portrayed just fine, and Samus's moveset problems hurt Dark Samus less, but she doesn’t provide anything mechanically interesting, which isn't ideal.
Samus is the protagonist of the Metroid series; A stoic bounty hunter known for her use of power armor, and an arm cannon that fires a wide variety of beams and missiles. She’s also extremely athletic, able to flip multiple times in the air with a single jump, and wall jump.
Samus’s most iconic attacks are the Charge Beam, Wave Beam, Screw Attack, Bomb, Power Bomb, Missile, Super Missile, Ice Beam/Missile, Grapple Beam, and Shinespark. The Morph Ball is also one of, if not the most iconic abilities she has, allowing her to turn into a ball to get into tight spaces.
Samus is pretty much pure action hero, going into dangerous situations, taking down threats with lots of firepower, and looking as cool as possible while doing it. A successful adaptation of Samus is going to require capturing how cool she is to control, highlighting her mobility as well as her arsenal.
Samus’s most iconic attacks are the Charge Beam, Wave Beam, Screw Attack, Bomb, Power Bomb, Missile, Super Missile, Ice Beam/Missile, Grapple Beam, and Shinespark. The Morph Ball is also one of, if not the most iconic abilities she has, allowing her to turn into a ball to get into tight spaces.
Samus is pretty much pure action hero, going into dangerous situations, taking down threats with lots of firepower, and looking as cool as possible while doing it. A successful adaptation of Samus is going to require capturing how cool she is to control, highlighting her mobility as well as her arsenal.
Samus is Smash’s prime example of a projectile zoner. She makes approaching her difficult with a slew of missiles, her Grapple Beam, and the threat of her extremely powerful Charge Shot, and once they get close, she can get them off of her with a couple of her aerial attacks, or Screw Attack. Recently, her Morph Ball bombs have gained utility in edge guarding by covering the ledge and allowing her to tackle other ledge options while the hitbox lingers.
She pays for this power in slowish, kind of floaty movement, a bad recovery, and multi-hit moves that don’t link properly. Most famously, her neutral attack’s combo doesn’t work at all.
She pays for this power in slowish, kind of floaty movement, a bad recovery, and multi-hit moves that don’t link properly. Most famously, her neutral attack’s combo doesn’t work at all.
Samus I think somewhat accurately captures how she was in her appearances in the early Metroid series like Super Metroid. Movement there was pretty floaty, and she didn’t necessarily zoom around like she does in Metroid Samus Returns and Metroid Dread. However, with the direction of the character moving toward a more action focus, even as far back as her appearance in Metroid: Other M (or even Metroid Prime), her movement has become a lot more fluid, and it’s hard to say that her current gamefeel stacks up.
In terms of how her arsenal is included, I think it works well. Most of her different armaments are more akin to ammunition types than different abilities, and the ones that are different are all present and accounted for aside from her new Aeon abilities, and the psionics in Metroid Prime 4: Beyond…not that I really want her free controlling her Charge Shot like she’s Pit or something.
I think what a lot of people find off about her moveset is how it distributes power between her melee strikes and projectiles instead of focusing on the projectiles specifically. Looking at Mega Man, he’s able to fire his primary weapon with ease, and his whole kit is built around that new control scheme, while Samus’s primary weapon is just a neutral special, and while its power incentivizes it’s use, it’s not quite as versatile as the Mega Buster. That being said, it’s also a very different attack from the Mega Buster in cannon due to its omnidirectionality. Giving Samus the ability to fire her beam in 8 directions while preserving her fluid movement would be difficult with just one button, and doing so with multiple buttons would make her entire moveset just 1 move, which would not be popular. And then the missiles would be just the same move, but with more damage.
Many moveset reworks for Samus give her the ability to swap weapons as well, allowing her more utility with the use of more of her munitions, but they either require the use of a taunt button, which I don’t think should ever be used for a critical moveset feature, or a menu, which really doesn’t belong on a character that’s supposed to be fluid to control.
Samus is definitely one of the cases where a 1-1 recreation of their abilities does more harm than good, especially since her fighting style is “run away until the opponent overextends, then pump them full of lead and energy blasts”, which would make her a character that is overwhelming to fight, and either have no weaknesses, or be extremely exploitable with a very narrow window of balance, and a high amount of frustration even in that balanced state.
If we’re going to modernize this kit, I think the way to do it would be to raise her fall speed so that her vertical movements are fluid, but keep her gravity low so she can still linger in the air should she need to, and so she doesn’t drop like a rock off stage, as her recovery would not be able to handle that. After that, incorporate her main beam into more of her normal attacks, potentially replacing all of her weird point-blank explosion moves. This could end up giving her keep-away tools she doesn’t necessarily need, but would improve her gamefeel as a run and gun character, so it would be worth adjusting other areas of her kit for this feature, and I’m fairly confident in saying this because these attacks on Mii Gunner have caused remarks of them feeling like Samus should (even if they’re uncommon because most people don’t talk about Mii Gunner).
After having used it in her two newest 2D games, the Melee Counter feels like it should be a staple of Samus’s moveset in Smash, allowing Samus to check approaches. I’m not sure you should make it a special move, but having it as a couple of her normals should be just fine. As for the other special moves, I’m cool with them as is, but if they need to be changed to accommodate a new set of normals, I’d be fine with that too.
Also, allow her to crawl with the Morph Ball, and maybe even jump around in Morph Ball mode if the player holds down or something. It would be totally useless, but it would also be a cute touch, and it feels like something we should be able to do in the first place. I’d also like to see some better characterization from an appeal standpoint on Samus. I know this isn’t a character that emotes much, but a lot of her taunts and victory animations are a kinda nothing. As a minor nitpick, I’d like to see her dash attack more accurately reference the shinespark by having her crouch at the start of the move, and cooler effects work added to the move itself.
Lastly, I have seen complaints about her doing physical attacks at all (some about up air specifically, others about her neutral air, and some about arm cannon smacks), and while I think this was mainly a thing before Melee Counter I would agree that some of her physical attacks are a bit odd. I don’t hate them enough to want them replaced, but her neutral air is kinda weird if you think about it for more than two seconds.
In terms of how her arsenal is included, I think it works well. Most of her different armaments are more akin to ammunition types than different abilities, and the ones that are different are all present and accounted for aside from her new Aeon abilities, and the psionics in Metroid Prime 4: Beyond…not that I really want her free controlling her Charge Shot like she’s Pit or something.
I think what a lot of people find off about her moveset is how it distributes power between her melee strikes and projectiles instead of focusing on the projectiles specifically. Looking at Mega Man, he’s able to fire his primary weapon with ease, and his whole kit is built around that new control scheme, while Samus’s primary weapon is just a neutral special, and while its power incentivizes it’s use, it’s not quite as versatile as the Mega Buster. That being said, it’s also a very different attack from the Mega Buster in cannon due to its omnidirectionality. Giving Samus the ability to fire her beam in 8 directions while preserving her fluid movement would be difficult with just one button, and doing so with multiple buttons would make her entire moveset just 1 move, which would not be popular. And then the missiles would be just the same move, but with more damage.
Many moveset reworks for Samus give her the ability to swap weapons as well, allowing her more utility with the use of more of her munitions, but they either require the use of a taunt button, which I don’t think should ever be used for a critical moveset feature, or a menu, which really doesn’t belong on a character that’s supposed to be fluid to control.
Samus is definitely one of the cases where a 1-1 recreation of their abilities does more harm than good, especially since her fighting style is “run away until the opponent overextends, then pump them full of lead and energy blasts”, which would make her a character that is overwhelming to fight, and either have no weaknesses, or be extremely exploitable with a very narrow window of balance, and a high amount of frustration even in that balanced state.
If we’re going to modernize this kit, I think the way to do it would be to raise her fall speed so that her vertical movements are fluid, but keep her gravity low so she can still linger in the air should she need to, and so she doesn’t drop like a rock off stage, as her recovery would not be able to handle that. After that, incorporate her main beam into more of her normal attacks, potentially replacing all of her weird point-blank explosion moves. This could end up giving her keep-away tools she doesn’t necessarily need, but would improve her gamefeel as a run and gun character, so it would be worth adjusting other areas of her kit for this feature, and I’m fairly confident in saying this because these attacks on Mii Gunner have caused remarks of them feeling like Samus should (even if they’re uncommon because most people don’t talk about Mii Gunner).
After having used it in her two newest 2D games, the Melee Counter feels like it should be a staple of Samus’s moveset in Smash, allowing Samus to check approaches. I’m not sure you should make it a special move, but having it as a couple of her normals should be just fine. As for the other special moves, I’m cool with them as is, but if they need to be changed to accommodate a new set of normals, I’d be fine with that too.
Also, allow her to crawl with the Morph Ball, and maybe even jump around in Morph Ball mode if the player holds down or something. It would be totally useless, but it would also be a cute touch, and it feels like something we should be able to do in the first place. I’d also like to see some better characterization from an appeal standpoint on Samus. I know this isn’t a character that emotes much, but a lot of her taunts and victory animations are a kinda nothing. As a minor nitpick, I’d like to see her dash attack more accurately reference the shinespark by having her crouch at the start of the move, and cooler effects work added to the move itself.
Lastly, I have seen complaints about her doing physical attacks at all (some about up air specifically, others about her neutral air, and some about arm cannon smacks), and while I think this was mainly a thing before Melee Counter I would agree that some of her physical attacks are a bit odd. I don’t hate them enough to want them replaced, but her neutral air is kinda weird if you think about it for more than two seconds.
Dark Samus is a being of pure Phazon energy that copied Samus’s DNA, and is a major villain in the Metroid Prime trilogy. Her mannerisms are very otherworldly, mostly just floating there…menacingly. In combat, she’s able to create shields, duplicates of herself, fire lasers, summon columns of energy, and spindash.
Dark Samus’s difference in demeanor with Samus is perfectly captured here, with my main complaint being that none of her abilities are being showcased in favor of moves that Samus has, but Dark Samus was never shown using. Echo Fighters are supposed to be super asset reusey, but I want my Echo Fighters to have more than just…their stance is a little lower so uncharged Charge Shot can hit a standing Pichu, and their fire effects was replaced with electric so hitstun works ever so slightly differently on certain moves.
As for how to change her, I’m not sure. Having her generic shield replaced with a Phazon shield would be a start, but that’s just more aesthetic stuff. Similarly, her down smash should also be the Phazon energy spike move, but that’s not going to change her playstyle either.
One way you might could do it is have her down special change to the summon duplicate ability. This duplicate would be stationary, using the same special moves you do (except down special, which would dismiss it), allowing you to double the amount of projectiles you output, or use it as a more traditional trap with Screw Attack. Charge Shot would have to be nerfed or replaced with something else since double Charge Shot would be…yeah, but something like this would keep the moveset mostly the same while adding a little extra flair that makes a big difference.
One last thing of note is that Dark Samus’s floaty movement is often said to work well for her, and it does, but looking at footage of her boss fight, she’s actually really fast. The floatiness helps capture the fact that she can fly, but not having it (which by default she wouldn’t if my changes were implementing it) wouldn’t be too bad either.
Dark Samus’s difference in demeanor with Samus is perfectly captured here, with my main complaint being that none of her abilities are being showcased in favor of moves that Samus has, but Dark Samus was never shown using. Echo Fighters are supposed to be super asset reusey, but I want my Echo Fighters to have more than just…their stance is a little lower so uncharged Charge Shot can hit a standing Pichu, and their fire effects was replaced with electric so hitstun works ever so slightly differently on certain moves.
As for how to change her, I’m not sure. Having her generic shield replaced with a Phazon shield would be a start, but that’s just more aesthetic stuff. Similarly, her down smash should also be the Phazon energy spike move, but that’s not going to change her playstyle either.
One way you might could do it is have her down special change to the summon duplicate ability. This duplicate would be stationary, using the same special moves you do (except down special, which would dismiss it), allowing you to double the amount of projectiles you output, or use it as a more traditional trap with Screw Attack. Charge Shot would have to be nerfed or replaced with something else since double Charge Shot would be…yeah, but something like this would keep the moveset mostly the same while adding a little extra flair that makes a big difference.
One last thing of note is that Dark Samus’s floaty movement is often said to work well for her, and it does, but looking at footage of her boss fight, she’s actually really fast. The floatiness helps capture the fact that she can fly, but not having it (which by default she wouldn’t if my changes were implementing it) wouldn’t be too bad either.
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DemifiendEnjoyer
Smash Journeyman
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It would be cool if the Pikmin were playable.
Like separately from Olimar.
Just the Pikmin.
Like separately from Olimar.
Just the Pikmin.
Thegameandwatch
Smash Lord
They would probably have a unique moveset but with Olimar’s side b being a command grab. Maybe also keeping up special?
This is compared to Luma who would probably have a similar moveset to when it’s with Rosalina outside of most specials and grabs.
Despite technically first appearing hundreds of years ago and President only being around the same age as Mario, this thing is one of my most wanted characters, if it can even be called that. I had a video saved about some potential moveset options, but I can't seem to find it anymore. I feel like there are a lot more than just card-related attacks that could be done though if it represents the whole of Clubhouse Games, and even more so if it incorporates board games as a whole.
PersonAngelo53
Smash Journeyman
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- 277
I always thought Zant’s boss battle room from Zelda
twilight princess could be a cool stage. The stage could have Zant in the background sitting down in his throne. But sometimes he stands up to use his teleportation spell that teleports the whole stage into one of the other boss rooms from the game just like in his boss battle. Also some platforms would be changing depending of the boss room change, Zant could also attack sometimes in the field and be a stage hazard.
Also bonus points if Zants boss theme gets added to the game with the stage and each time the music changes tone is when he teleports/changes the stage location into another boss room.
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I just made a new Smash moveset template, if anyone’s interested in using it:
Intro:
Stance/Idle 1:
Idle 2:
Idle 3:
Notable Palette Swaps
Dash:
Damage:
Jump:
Crouch:
Ground Attacks
Grab:
Pummel:
Special Pummel:
Forward Throw:
Back Throw:
Up Throw:
Down Throw:
Special Moves
B :
B + ←→ :
B + ↑ :
B + ↓ :
Final Smash:
Taunts
↑:
←:
→:
↓:
Winposes
↑:
←:
→:
↓:
Applause:
Icon:
Boxing Ring Title:
Star K.O.:
Victory Music:
Kirby Hat:
Stance/Idle 1:
Idle 2:
Idle 3:
Notable Palette Swaps
Dash:
Damage:
Jump:
Crouch:
Ground Attacks
- Light
- A:
- A + ←→:
- A + ↑:
- A + ↓:
- A + Dash:
- A + Ledge:
- A + Floor:
- Smash
- Y / Y + ←→:
- Y + ↑:
- Y + ↓:
- Y + Dash:
- Y + Ledge:
- Y + Floor:
- Light
- A:
- A + →:
- A + ←:
- A + ↑:
- A + ↓:
- Smash
- Y:
- Y + →:
- Y + ←:
- Y + ↑:
- Y + ↓:
Grab:
Pummel:
Special Pummel:
Forward Throw:
Back Throw:
Up Throw:
Down Throw:
Special Moves
B :
B + ←→ :
B + ↑ :
B + ↓ :
Final Smash:
Taunts
↑:
←:
→:
↓:
Winposes
↑:
←:
→:
↓:
Applause:
Icon:
Boxing Ring Title:
Star K.O.:
Victory Music:
Kirby Hat:
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PersonAngelo53
Smash Journeyman
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- 277
I wish The legend of heroes: Trails of series was included in Super robot wars someday too. That series does have mechs too technically speaking. And I think it could fit pretty well with the other characters.
xx_jim
Smash Rookie
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- May 10, 2025
- Messages
- 5
Morshu as a character would be betterDo you want Morshu's Shop from the CD-i duology as a stage?
Gorgonzales
Smash Lord
ninjahmos
Smash Champion
I've said this before, but I kinda wanna hear Yoko Shimomura do a remix of Wart's Theme for the next Smash game.
PeridotGX
Smash Hero
Busy night tonight, I can hardly keep up.
Anyway, the Nintendo Switch Online app is currently featuring Yoshi's Story. This is good news for Pac E. Derm scions.
Anyway, the Nintendo Switch Online app is currently featuring Yoshi's Story. This is good news for Pac E. Derm scions.
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Gorgonzales
Smash Lord
It's funny to think that Pak E. Derm has witnessed countless high-level Melee matches, with all their gratuitous displays of technical skill and marvels of the physics engine, in his 20+ years of waddling back and forth on Yoshi's Story.
One day you will boot up Melee and he'll be missing from the background.
Soy_Man
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2018
- Messages
- 168
I don't know how well this would be received, but if Takamaru gets into smash I would want Sakurai to do what he did with Pit in Brawl and just completely re-imagine the character.
I like the idea of Smash having a traditional samurai character, who's also a deep cut retro pick, but Takamaru doesn't do it for me. Both character design-wise and personality-wise, he's too bland. We already have like 10 edgeless, baby-faced anime-swordsman characters, why not draw from the pool of great samurai media to make a more distinct character. And Takamaru has already had drastic creative liberties taken with his character design when he's cameo'd in other franchises, so smash doing this would kinda fit with his legacy.
I like the idea of Smash having a traditional samurai character, who's also a deep cut retro pick, but Takamaru doesn't do it for me. Both character design-wise and personality-wise, he's too bland. We already have like 10 edgeless, baby-faced anime-swordsman characters, why not draw from the pool of great samurai media to make a more distinct character. And Takamaru has already had drastic creative liberties taken with his character design when he's cameo'd in other franchises, so smash doing this would kinda fit with his legacy.
Gengar84
Smash Hero
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- Dec 9, 2009
- Messages
- 8,108
I completely agree. I love the idea of a samurai character in Smash but Takamaru’s design is just kind of boring in my opinion and I don’t know anything about his personality. A revamped design similar to what Sakurai did for Pit would be really cool and I’d be down for it.
There are some other samurai I think could be a lot of fun in Smash. Just a few off the top of my head that could be cool are Auron (FFX), Gilgamesh (FFV), Yasuo (LoL), Nobunaga Oda (SW), Mitsurugi (SC), Haohmaru (SS), Hisako (KI), Golisopod (Pokémon) and Ryoma (FE).
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TheLamerGamer
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2020
- Messages
- 452
A Samurai in Smash eh...
Gengar84
Smash Hero
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- Dec 9, 2009
- Messages
- 8,108
My favorites are Golisopod, Hisako, and Auron. Not sure whether any have a shot at all. Golisopod definitely takes a lot of inspiration from samurai armor in its design but would you consider it as a samurai character? I wonder if you could incorporate some kind of samurai fighting style into its attacks to play more into its visual design.
Oracle Link
Smash Master
What if we got Pauline in Smash but...
She looked like this
Thegameandwatch
Smash Lord
Probably to wait since its not confirmed if it’s actually Pauline, related to her or just using her form.
Oracle Link
Smash Master
it does apparently like singing? my theory is that the kid pauline we see might be a kid because shes still a bit cursed (and the meta reason is so she doesnt clutter you) but i dunno seems very intersting?
SMAASH! Puppy
Smash Legend
Fighter Review: #05 Yoshi
TLDR: Yoshi is a carefree dinosaur known for his ability to extend his tongue to eat enemies, throw eggs at the ones he can’t eat, and Flutter Jump to stay in the air. Super Smash Bros. captures these traits in a way that is strange, but effective, leading to a move set that hits all the beats it should, but with a high skill floor.
While the questioning of Yoshi of all characters having a high skill floor is valid, I think what’s here works well with all of my main criticisms being nitpicks. It could also be argued that Yoshi being this way makes him more interesting as a character than he would be otherwise.
As far as those nitpicks go, I’d like to see his grab and Egg Lay animations change to be less like each other, some of his flavor animations be pushed just a tad farther from an appeal standpoint, for black Yoshi to return to his pallet swaps, and for Egg Roll to be a better move, even if just casually.
I wasn’t expecting this going in, but I think Yoshi deserves an A.
TLDR: Yoshi is a carefree dinosaur known for his ability to extend his tongue to eat enemies, throw eggs at the ones he can’t eat, and Flutter Jump to stay in the air. Super Smash Bros. captures these traits in a way that is strange, but effective, leading to a move set that hits all the beats it should, but with a high skill floor.
While the questioning of Yoshi of all characters having a high skill floor is valid, I think what’s here works well with all of my main criticisms being nitpicks. It could also be argued that Yoshi being this way makes him more interesting as a character than he would be otherwise.
As far as those nitpicks go, I’d like to see his grab and Egg Lay animations change to be less like each other, some of his flavor animations be pushed just a tad farther from an appeal standpoint, for black Yoshi to return to his pallet swaps, and for Egg Roll to be a better move, even if just casually.
I wasn’t expecting this going in, but I think Yoshi deserves an A.
Yoshi is a happy and carefree dinosaur native to Yoshi’s Island. He exists as one of the characters whose name is the same as his species, but is definitely a named character much like Toad, and in some languages, Kamek. In the Super Mario series, Yoshi acts as Mario’s steed, granting him protection against spikes, the ability to defeat enemies by having Yoshi eat them, and a Flutter Jump to make platforming easier.
The latter two abilities are Yoshi’s most iconic, with the gameplay of his own side series revolving around them. In the Yoshi’s Island series, Yoshi is able to extend his tongue forward, gobbling up any enemies in front of him, and turning them into eggs, which can then be thrown at other enemies and objects. Yoshi’s Flutter Jump allows him to stay in the air for a long time, making his series of games extremely beginner friendly. He’s also able to ground pound, working very similarly to how it does in the Super Mario Bros. series by doing extra damage and pounding in stakes and the like.
Though they so far have been game specific, Yoshi has been able to transform in various ways such as turning into a helicopter for certain levels in Yoshi’s Island, a giant mecha Yoshi in Yoshi’s Wooly World, and the fruit transformations in Super Mario Galaxy 2.
Compared to Mario, Yoshi is often a lot more laid back, as while he’s just as peppy as Mario is when he’s around, he’s usually off sleeping or playing with other Yoshis before the plot kicks in in his home series. He also seems to be fairly easily frightened, running away whenever Mario gets knocked off of him. However, this may be more of a gameplay enforced trait, as he does not do this in his home series, and is rarely shown to be afraid of characters like Bowser in other spin offs like Luigi is.
A successful adaptation of Yoshi should showcase his happy and carefree personality, as well as the Yoshi’s Island gameplay loop of eating enemies, and throwing eggs, as well as his ability to stay in the air with his Flutter Jump.
The latter two abilities are Yoshi’s most iconic, with the gameplay of his own side series revolving around them. In the Yoshi’s Island series, Yoshi is able to extend his tongue forward, gobbling up any enemies in front of him, and turning them into eggs, which can then be thrown at other enemies and objects. Yoshi’s Flutter Jump allows him to stay in the air for a long time, making his series of games extremely beginner friendly. He’s also able to ground pound, working very similarly to how it does in the Super Mario Bros. series by doing extra damage and pounding in stakes and the like.
Though they so far have been game specific, Yoshi has been able to transform in various ways such as turning into a helicopter for certain levels in Yoshi’s Island, a giant mecha Yoshi in Yoshi’s Wooly World, and the fruit transformations in Super Mario Galaxy 2.
Compared to Mario, Yoshi is often a lot more laid back, as while he’s just as peppy as Mario is when he’s around, he’s usually off sleeping or playing with other Yoshis before the plot kicks in in his home series. He also seems to be fairly easily frightened, running away whenever Mario gets knocked off of him. However, this may be more of a gameplay enforced trait, as he does not do this in his home series, and is rarely shown to be afraid of characters like Bowser in other spin offs like Luigi is.
A successful adaptation of Yoshi should showcase his happy and carefree personality, as well as the Yoshi’s Island gameplay loop of eating enemies, and throwing eggs, as well as his ability to stay in the air with his Flutter Jump.
Yoshi is a brawler with a couple of unorthodox attributes. His double jump is really high courtesy of his Flutter Jump, and his up special is one of two in the game that isn’t primarily a recovery tool, instead being a flexible projectile that can discourage long ranged play and edge guards. Because his recovery relies on an exhaustible double jump, he is the only character in the game with super armor on it, with the intended effect of not allowing players to completely snub his recovery with the tiniest amount of knockback. In Super Smash Bros. Melee, he could cancel his upward momentum at the very beginning of his double jump with an aerial attack, allowing him to super armor through enemy attacks and punish with his aerials.
Yoshi is also known for having a lot of special moves with more of a casual focus. Egg Roll is often a terrible option for Yoshi in 1v1 matches, Egg Lay has historically been difficult to land (though it is a great tool for him now, allowing him to rack up damage with a command grab starter), and Yoshi Bomb is of a class of down specials that tend not to have much use in a competitive environment, but has recently gained a notable niche in competitive Super Smash Bros. Ultimate with its ability to catch opponents off guard.
Yoshi boasts the highest air speed in the game series, and one of the faster dash speeds, allowing him to drift in and out of an opponent’s range, and in particular, his aerial attacks flow together really well with a skilled player. Also unique to him is his shield; an egg that always covers him completely, negating the shield poke mechanic.
Personality wise, Yoshi is as carefree as ever, always having a good time, and boasting a couple of cute touches like his ability to crawl.
Yoshi is also known for having a lot of special moves with more of a casual focus. Egg Roll is often a terrible option for Yoshi in 1v1 matches, Egg Lay has historically been difficult to land (though it is a great tool for him now, allowing him to rack up damage with a command grab starter), and Yoshi Bomb is of a class of down specials that tend not to have much use in a competitive environment, but has recently gained a notable niche in competitive Super Smash Bros. Ultimate with its ability to catch opponents off guard.
Yoshi boasts the highest air speed in the game series, and one of the faster dash speeds, allowing him to drift in and out of an opponent’s range, and in particular, his aerial attacks flow together really well with a skilled player. Also unique to him is his shield; an egg that always covers him completely, negating the shield poke mechanic.
Personality wise, Yoshi is as carefree as ever, always having a good time, and boasting a couple of cute touches like his ability to crawl.
I had a lot of trouble parsing my thoughts on Yoshi. He felt to me like he had a lot of standout qualities while somehow failing to stand out amongst other brawlers. I disliked the fact that he had multiple dead buttons that were special moves, but Egg Lay and Yoshi Bomb are better than I thought they were. I found him awkward to pilot, but when I watched tournament footage where they’re constantly doing really cool combos that only Yoshi could pull off, I saw the vision.
The problem I was having is likely that Yoshi’s skill floor is just higher than I thought it would be. Is this a bad thing? Yes and no. He’s the protagonist of a series that’s well known to be a platformer for beginners, and is popular among younger audiences, so there are going to be many people disappointed at how weird and awkward he is to pilot when you don’t have the hang of him. However, Mario and Kirby are also on the roster. We don’t really need Yoshi to be an introduction to Super Smash Bros.’s mechanics as well.
His high skill floor doesn’t really impact the fantasy of playing as him either. Yoshi is a brawler, which is a fine playstyle for a fairly quick character to have. He’s got a regular and command grab that eats people, as he should, his aerial gameplay is really good and stands out amongst the rest due to fast aerial movement, and his Egg Throw ability is extremely versatile. It just takes time for the player to put it all together.
With all this in mind, I think I still would prefer that his skill floor was lowered, as nothing about Yoshi really indicates that he would be difficult to learn, but I wouldn’t want this to come at the cost of what already makes him unique and I’m not sure that could be done.
I also have a couple of nitpicks beyond his difficulty: I still very much dislike that Egg Roll is as bad an option as it is, and even in casual play it doesn’t feel particularly good. You don’t get anything off of it like with Spin Dash/Spin Charge, nor does it really have the power of Rollout or Withdraw. You just kinda bounce around in an egg for a little bit, and then get hit by someone in the years of end lag. His animations for his grab and Egg Lay overlap due to them both being him sticking his tongue out, so I’d like to see them play around with posing on these moves so they can’t be mistaken for each other in the future.
This is also one of few characters that has pallet swaps that annoy me, with black Yoshi (my favorite) being removed for the ugly crafted Yoshi that doesn’t even look different enough from base Yoshi to justify its existence. Lastly, while his personality is captured really well, I do think there are a couple of extra touches that can be added to keep his characterization on par with the likes of Super Mario Bros. Wonder and Mario Kart World.
All in all, while Yoshi’s implementation in Super Smash Bros. is really not what you’d expect, it does work surprisingly well.
The problem I was having is likely that Yoshi’s skill floor is just higher than I thought it would be. Is this a bad thing? Yes and no. He’s the protagonist of a series that’s well known to be a platformer for beginners, and is popular among younger audiences, so there are going to be many people disappointed at how weird and awkward he is to pilot when you don’t have the hang of him. However, Mario and Kirby are also on the roster. We don’t really need Yoshi to be an introduction to Super Smash Bros.’s mechanics as well.
His high skill floor doesn’t really impact the fantasy of playing as him either. Yoshi is a brawler, which is a fine playstyle for a fairly quick character to have. He’s got a regular and command grab that eats people, as he should, his aerial gameplay is really good and stands out amongst the rest due to fast aerial movement, and his Egg Throw ability is extremely versatile. It just takes time for the player to put it all together.
With all this in mind, I think I still would prefer that his skill floor was lowered, as nothing about Yoshi really indicates that he would be difficult to learn, but I wouldn’t want this to come at the cost of what already makes him unique and I’m not sure that could be done.
I also have a couple of nitpicks beyond his difficulty: I still very much dislike that Egg Roll is as bad an option as it is, and even in casual play it doesn’t feel particularly good. You don’t get anything off of it like with Spin Dash/Spin Charge, nor does it really have the power of Rollout or Withdraw. You just kinda bounce around in an egg for a little bit, and then get hit by someone in the years of end lag. His animations for his grab and Egg Lay overlap due to them both being him sticking his tongue out, so I’d like to see them play around with posing on these moves so they can’t be mistaken for each other in the future.
This is also one of few characters that has pallet swaps that annoy me, with black Yoshi (my favorite) being removed for the ugly crafted Yoshi that doesn’t even look different enough from base Yoshi to justify its existence. Lastly, while his personality is captured really well, I do think there are a couple of extra touches that can be added to keep his characterization on par with the likes of Super Mario Bros. Wonder and Mario Kart World.
All in all, while Yoshi’s implementation in Super Smash Bros. is really not what you’d expect, it does work surprisingly well.
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Oracle Link
Smash Master
I dunno maybe thats just me but i want mario and luigi to be more super mario bros (series) inspired and luigu should be less "weird"
Mario:
B: fire ball
Side b: Tanooki Tail
Up B: Spin Jump
Down B: ground pound
Final Smash: Maybe an attack inspired by the final super star aztack from the movie?
Grab: he holds openents like a koopa shell and kicks them for damage! And ever kicks them like a shell or bowser tosses them!
Luigi:
B:Ice Ball
Side b: Maybe move Poltergust here? Maybe Cape?
Up b: the charged jump from super mario bros 2/ super paper mario
Down B: the old spin move
Final smash: Maybe a launch pipe move?
Or if poltergust isnt side b its here?
Definitly keep poltergust as the grab tho!
Unique grabs are always more interesting then boring ones!
Mario:
B: fire ball
Side b: Tanooki Tail
Up B: Spin Jump
Down B: ground pound
Final Smash: Maybe an attack inspired by the final super star aztack from the movie?
Grab: he holds openents like a koopa shell and kicks them for damage! And ever kicks them like a shell or bowser tosses them!
Luigi:
B:Ice Ball
Side b: Maybe move Poltergust here? Maybe Cape?
Up b: the charged jump from super mario bros 2/ super paper mario
Down B: the old spin move
Final smash: Maybe a launch pipe move?
Or if poltergust isnt side b its here?
Definitly keep poltergust as the grab tho!
Unique grabs are always more interesting then boring ones!
DarthEnderX
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2014
- Messages
- 9,071
There are just sooo many better samurai/katana characters in video games.
Haohmaru, Mitsurugi, Nobunaga, Vergil, Hayabusa, Crono, Raiden, Lyn, Samurai Goroh...
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Louie G.
Smash Legend
Everyone I’ve seen propose this just makes him boring. I prefer “weird”, expressive and fun Luigi to squeaky clean brand “accurate” Luigi any day of the week.
I say that as a massive fan of Luigi - maybe my love for him budding from the RPGs contributes to my appreciation of this quirky, funny adaptation of the character. But I feel like in a fighting game you want to draw out a character’s most extreme traits. Asking Smash to pull back is just strange to me.
Thegameandwatch
Smash Lord
It’s fine but there are already two Mario characters (Bowser and Yoshi if he counts) that have the same type of move.
SMAASH! Puppy
Smash Legend
Interesting that Takamaru went from "yeah he'd be cool" to "eeeeeeeeh".
As a character he lacks the fleshing out that other comparable characters get since he has yet to leave the NES outside of cameos and such. He probably would benefit from a reimagining with that in mind. I would like to see them keep the range sensitive button mechanic from Mysterious Murasume Castle though, as that's currently the main identity of the character beyond just "samurai".
As a character he lacks the fleshing out that other comparable characters get since he has yet to leave the NES outside of cameos and such. He probably would benefit from a reimagining with that in mind. I would like to see them keep the range sensitive button mechanic from Mysterious Murasume Castle though, as that's currently the main identity of the character beyond just "samurai".
Louie G.
Smash Legend
Mario’s relationship with Ground Pound is funny because yeah. He SHOULD have it. But for the sake of moveset variety, it’s better that he doesn’t. I’m not really a FLUDD guy myself so I’m still in favor of something different but we already got plenty of stall and fall down specials. At this point it should probably just be a dair even rather than a full special input.
Soy_Man
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2018
- Messages
- 168
I like Sakurai headcanon luigi as well, but his ultimate iteration is abysmal. I don't understand how centralizing his game plan around nuclear grab combos is meant to convey his character.
I'm in favour of replacing cape and flood with movement options because I think that fits gameplay identity more. The rest of his moveset is kinda perfect imo.
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Wonder Smash
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2013
- Messages
- 2,435
I don't know. Seeing how he's an NES character straight from the 80s, him looking a like a traditional samurai character (even if he does look "bland" to some people) is kind of fitting to me. That just shows he comes from the old school.
If I can accept characters like these:
then I can easily accept a character like this:
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Thegameandwatch
Smash Lord
Maybe make Cape work differently in the air like how it was in Mario World but not if it’s a good idea. Especially since there are power ups like the Tanooki Suit that have had more appearances.
Soy_Man
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2018
- Messages
- 168
You juxtaposing Duck Hunt Dog and Popo/Nana with Takamaru kinda proves my point doesn't it? I would never describe those designs as bland.If I can accept characters like these:
then I can easily accept a character like this:
