Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

[REL38]

Pit wins since Wario can't catch him

So Pit ends up camping

 

[_clinton]

I'm pretty sure that was noted around when the thread began to start, where we were wrong about countless things like Charizard doing air dives, using mega fire blasts and earthquakes

Basing an opinion on a thread because of the first few pages isn't very accurate of an expanding thread
Just sayin'

You saying the thread has changed doesn't make sense when I see stuff like this still:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8084136&postcount=3263

If it has changed, why hasn't this changed that much as well? If you think the Mother boys are a tie, then how come the match still has the same reasoning behind it that says Ness wins?

This thread has actually changed a lot in the year it has been open, even if it is slow.

Oh and it wasn't just from "the start of it," I've lurked the thread sense then (rarely though I'll admit) and I've seen posts saying various things like the fact that Mewtwo being alive doesn't make much sense in some posts.

Plus if it is IRL, I don't see how Ness would have anything more than just a bat as well, where would he pick up the bombs, and so on that they have in the game with a RL setting? Especially with the said setting that Ness is in, I mean logically Ness shouldn’t be out “saving the world” and he should be in school and playing video games! (which is brought up in the game as a joke, just saying)

Lucas I can be more forgiving of with him packing heavy artillery and the like just because the setting that he is in is a setting where a certain greater power is ****ing his society, and he is against that said power. Even the fact that he could be fighting someone he knows behind that pig mask is brought up in the game with various NPCs from his village joining the army and Lucas sees them (so Lucas risks fighting someone he knows in his game a lot just because they are on the other side).

Plus the book that Lucas is from in the 1st place is pretty much about the happy affects that war can have on kids. Fun fact, the book is awesome, just saying.

So, Lucas’ character in that book that he is based off of happens to be crippled, which we can see with characters like Duster and his bad leg. Only in the book we actually see how the character is crippled, the Lucas character was shot by his mom when she was shooting Lucas’ dad (so it’s not like Lucas was shot on purpose of course, the mom just went a little crazy with the gun and one of the bullets bounced and hit Lucas).

Hell even the hot spring part of Mother 3 is in that book in a certain way and what happens with that…poor poor Lucas. ^_^

Oh and to get back on topic psychic powers are just out of course if this is to be RL.

"future tech" was allowed so Samus suit is one of those things that are deamed "okay"

Yeah, and like I said I think that is a bit off for a thread that is supposed to be set IRL as from what everyone is saying, how on earth would Samus' Morph ball work IRL? I mean I’ve seen that you guys have said that things like the speed booster doesn’t work, but that is just one thing out of many with Samus.

If you are going to allow future technology, then there should be some logic behind it still, because a lot of things in fiction don’t work that way IRL still. I mean, canon wise the entire suit is powered by her will only as well pretty much, so how does that work IRL?

Anyways, individual multiquoting was around, but not to the extent it's become

My point is that “long posts” have been around in this thread for longer than I have been around, not multiquoting:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8792695&postcount=5787
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8782472&postcount=5563

Also, an attack from Ganon will be devastating
Dimensional rifts, magic and other moves done it
MK's speed isn't very noteworthy aside from his slashes

I never said an attack from him wouldn’t be devastating, MK creates tornados with his sword and the things multi-elemental as well, plus MK enters a different dimension to teleport in the 1st place. Plus, how is MK’s speed not noteworthy outside of his slashes? I said in another post that MK while flying could easily keep up with Kirby on wheel bike, to the point where one has to wonder how the **** did Kirby get off the ship anyway?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wIdwq_8590

Teleporting is shown to have lag of about a second which is well enough time for Ganon to react and attack him

It does? Really, that is odd because I’m pretty sure that the moment MK puts his cape around him he is out (that is how he teleports you know). I guess that is a small amount of start up time though.

Pit has range and flight, I think that alone gives him the win...

I've said this so many times it is odd.
Wario's things that fly/get him off the ground somehow that belong to him:
http://www.mariowiki.com/Wicked_Wario
http://www.mariowiki.com/Launchpad_Labyrinth (feel free and guess what this does)
http://www.mariowiki.com/Vampire_Wario
http://www.mariowiki.com/Puffy_Wario
http://www.mariowiki.com/Bouncy_Wario
http://www.mariowiki.com/Jet_Wario
http://www.mariowiki.com/Eagle_Wario
http://www.mariowiki.com/King_Dragon_Wario

Oh and he has a plane as well.

 

[JOE!]

jesus dude, now you are talking about an entirely different thread!

stop killing this one! ;_;

 

[_clinton]

jesus dude, now you are talking about an entirely different thread!

stop killing this one! ;_;

Yes, because we have never talked about your thread in this thread before.

 

[PowerBomb]

All right, I guess Pit wins this one. Remember guys, MU's can still be debated after they're done.

 

[JOE!]

Yes, because we have never talked about your thread in this thread before.

weird....

so this thread talks about mine behind it's back?

 

[_clinton]

weird....

so this thread talks about mine behind it's back?

Yes it does.

 

[JOE!]

I should get a **** trophy


i made this fool do a SHORT POST

 

[warpd]

Wario hates being hit by pointed objects and Pit's arrows will do the job well. Being invincible does not mean that Wario is immune from knock back.

 

[JOE!]

quick note about future tech and clinton's stupidity:

"how does the morph ball werk IRL?! how isz dat LOGICAL?!"

simple: it doesnt and we dont deal with it

When dealing with future tech we look at what could be plausible, and rule out the plain impossible. THeres no way Samus could use the morph ball, so it is impossible, thus ruled out and not dealt with.

 

[_clinton]

Wario hates being hit by pointed objects and Pit's arrows will do the job well.

What damages Wario in his games doesn't make **** sense though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CPqOuWjJKE&feature=related

How on earth does stuff like what happens at 4:10 or so not hurt him? Also on that note, it's kind of annoying to see the games pull of his invulnerability stuff as canon still because of his rapid healing powers or something but at the same time make him have a health bar anyway.

I like a curb stomp battle because that is all Wario's games are pretty much when it comes to Wario vs. whoever, you really won't lose, It's just a manner of time before you win.

Oh and when I say "healing powers:"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLLGQU9CWx4&feature=related

Pit's arrows don't seem worse than what happens here at 3:30.

When dealing with future tech we look at what could be plausible, and rule out the plain impossible. THeres no way Samus could use the morph ball, so it is impossible, thus ruled out and not dealt with.

So, how come Samus is still using her suit anyway? It canon wise is powered by her will.

 

[RWB]

First off, Wario slaughters Pit.

We know he's on par with Mario physically, putting his strength in the 100 ton range, his speed in hypersonic range...

These facts alone are enough to slaughter Pit.


But Wario also has canon permanent invincibility(Nayru's love style) in the Warioland series, and sincve we use their best feats here...


No, Pit does not win.

Why on earth wouldn't Mewtwo just steal the bloody star rod or something like that?

Didn't know about the startup.

So, the fact that Lucas fights a ton of fast foes (pure ****ing lightning for starters, don't know if that means anything though, but then again you have other things that clearly use super speed), teleporting foes (this does mean something), and is able to alter his physical traits means nothing?

Oh and just to say it right now:

Teleport > Super speed

**** the idea of just splattering Lucas to death by running into him is off as well, ever notice what the guy can take due to his psychic powers? Oh and what makes you think Samus’ reactions are better than a psychic’s?

Samus has shown hypersonic reaction speed. Lucas haven't been shown to even be supersonic in reaction- because there's no proof it's real lightning(if it is, Lucas will destroy EVERYONE in this thread, none of them can deal with a Mach 50->Mach 150 Psychic).
And Lucas does not have any story feats that can make him survive a hypersonic dashthrough by Samus(Mach 17 boost).

Just thought I’d say that, anyway:

Why would Tink be paralyzed by thunder wave when he fights electric foes all the time in his game and any sort of paralysis on them only lasts a bit?

They simply shock him, not paralyze him. Thunder wave is electromagnetic waves, not a shock.

He'd be paralyzed alright.

Oh and it isn’t like Tink isn’t packing magic armor and the like, I don’t see why it wouldn’t protect him from that. It’s not like Pikachu can take a lot of punishment either, so the idea of it wearing out is a bit off.

Pikachu is faster, and even if he weren't, link actually needs to take his time to use the spell- which is too long.

There's one thing though... do we go by his better durability showings or the worse ones?

Good ones:
Wasn't scratched/ko'd by an explosion that sent him flying past the horizon.
Wasn't ko'd/killed by a force of 500000 tonnes minimum.

Bad ones:
KO'd by Gdorf with fists.
KO'd by walls twice.
KO'd by hitting water surface after the 500000 ton force throw.

The better ones allow him to beat Pikachu. I assume they are in action, since we use Bowser's and Mario's best.

What? Yink>Tink by far for starters, god what is stopping him from going Zora mask on him and giving Pichu a taste of his own electricity or something like that? It’s not like Pichu is packing ice or fire or something else like that.

Yink>Tink? Are F***ing kidding me? MM Link stands no chance against WW Link whatsoever. NOTHING he can do is on par. And no, his masks do nothing to bridge that gap.

Also, Zora Link is still just as weak to electicity as regular Link, while Pichu takes lessened damage from it. He'd still die fast, storywise.

Or what is stopping him from using another mask like the stone mask and making him hard to track? What about him just casting a spell while he can’t be seen?

And he's gonna be able to put on the mask before he gets hit by Thunder Wave? No.

And unlike Tink, his story feats says he would die from a thunder.

I always viewed Kirby vs. D3 as a curb stomp battle myself for Kirby. ^_^

I suppose.

Part of me is like 90% sure that can be placed by Mario’s hand of saving her and it is him that is doing that, because when is she shown to do something like use the Star energy of that game anyway?

Pretty sure she survived Bowser ripping her castle into space. That's what makes it a durability feat.

Those aliens that were firing at Ness in his game and were also psychic, those dinosaurs that stomped on him, that minus world that threatened his sanity, the mountain drop falling, and so on couldn’t stop him, yet you think a blaster from a Wolfen will possibly do it?

The minus world was a mental thing. Mountain drop falling is impressive, but the wrong kind of durability. The other stuff are gameplay, and none of them has the same method of inflicting damage as a blaster anyway. And no, I'm talking ground blaster. Wolfen Laser is more than enough.

Ness wins if he's fast and can stun Wolf, but his feats aren't up to it.

What about Ness just teleporting up there, smashing it with his bat, then bringing Wolf to the ground? Then curb stomping his *** to hell even more? It’s hardly like Wolf is the only flying foe he fights in his games.

Again, speed is of the essence.

Fighting a goddess of Darkness and her army of mythological monsters isn’t showing off feats of combat?

No. Goddess is just a title. My laundry box could be called a goddess. Can I fight it and win? Of course.

Better Example: Thor is a god, Heracles a half-god. Yet if they fought, Thor would get his butt handed to him. And both of them would be slaughtered by Superman, who is just an alien, or Flash, who is just a human with powers.


It's achievements. If said monsters are very fast, very strong and so on, it's more impressive. But unless he showed feats of strength and speed, it's not helping him here.
Okay, SKILL feats, but against his opponent here we need other feats.

 

[JOE!]

^who srsly wants to read through your convo's?

why dont you take these into a back room for past MU's, since only you two seem to be the ones discussing it.

(also, since when does mario travel at hyper sonic speeds and lift 100 tons? even if you go by body length/sec he's not that fast.)


@powersuit:

Energy tanks = fuel

 

[_clinton]

why dont you take these into a back room for past MU's, since only you two seem to be the ones discussing it.

That actually wouldn't bug me at all, considering how I've brought it up before that a place like that would be nice where we could chat about the various abilities of the characters.

 

[JOE!]

yeah, why dont you create a user group to discuss past MU's/Char abilities, and stop cluttering the thread?

 

[_clinton]

yeah, why dont you create a user group to discuss past MU's/Char abilities, and stop cluttering the thread?

Why doesn't the TC do it instead? It is his thread, unless he doesn't care about the old match ups being talked about.

@powersuit:
Energy tanks = fuel

So, how does that work out?

 

[JOE!]

...by providing energy..in tank format



but srsly, the energy tanks could esentially hold fuel for her suit to run for the amount of time it'd take for her to battle effectivley.


also, you have the will to go and do huge posts with series of links/sources/quotes but not to make a social room?

 

[PowerBomb]

If Wario can continuously be hit by the arrows and never be able to do anything, then the match is still in Pit's favor.

Raizen, do the next match-up. It seems as if Wario loses this one. Remember guys, MU's can be revisited.

 

[_clinton]

Wario is fast enough to run across water like Sonic can, and shows off acrobatics on Mario's level itself within his games, he is a lot faster than what his frame shows off. Pit is going to have real issues hitting him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnVcP9XiA24

...by providing energy..in tank format

So, you're just going to make up a reason for why they would work outside of their canon to suit your needs?

**** why don't you just do that with everyone else as well?

Logically I really don't see Samus' suit as nothing more than a space suit with some armor on it if this is to be IRL, so what is allowed with her anyway? Chances are I don't see her gun arm as being anything more than just a laser gun, there isn't a missile attachment to it is there?

Also, how about Link's stuff? How much of his bag of holding is he being allowed to use?

also, you have the will to go and do huge posts with series of links/sources/quotes but not to make a social room?

If I'm going to actually participate in a separate part of the thread it actually will have to be observed by the TC of this thread and actually looked at by him.

 

[JOE!]

why do you talk about logic in the same post saying wario runs on water?

I mean hell, even in your acrobatics example he is nowhere near as acrobatic if he wasnt swinging on those poles first.

and the energy tanks only need to be explained as a fuel source, and the power suit *can* work. Her arm canon is an electrolaser, of which can be made into a hand-gun sized and still be plenty lethal.

Her canon also holds just 1 missile, kind of like the RPG attached to some guns.

 

[_clinton]

why do you talk about logic in the same post saying wario runs on water?

Well for starters because my post was talking about two different threads.

Oh and I like how you think the fact that he swinging on those polls at a super high speed isn't an example of good acrobatic technique.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrobatics

Acrobatics is the performance of extraordinary feats of balance, agility, and motor coordination.

How is swinging on a poll to the point where he can launch himself the way he does as shown in the video not defined in the definition I just posted? Oh and the boss is also trying to launch various projectiles at Wario, and Wario clearly shows that he can maintain balance and speed when bouncing off the foe as well (and every other foe for that matter, because he is perfectly ok with using his enemies heads as a trampoline like Mario is).

Or how about the fact that he has clear control over his speed when he is running across water and the like? They don't just give you a straight line to follow when they give you that ability in the game like they pretty much do 90% of the time with the speed booster in Metroid, they put you through obstacle courses where you have to run and dodge everything (and break through many other things).

and the energy tanks only need to be explained as a fuel source, and the power suit *can* work. Her arm canon is an electrolaser, of which can be made into a hand-gun sized and still be plenty lethal.

So, what are they fueling now just wondering? I can see the laser as one of them I guess, but what else is the suit doing really besides giving Samus a taser+ like weapon and an RPG?
Also, how come a no show with commenting on Link and the bag of holding he has?

 

[RWB]

If Wario can continuously be hit by the arrows and never be able to do anything, then the match is still in Pit's favor.

Raizen, do the next match-up. It seems as if Wario loses this one. Remember guys, MU's can be revisited.

I see someone really wants Wario to lose.


Pit can't put Wario down. Wario is fast enough to avoid the arrows, and strong enough to take Pit down in one blow. Heck, he's strong enough that he could kill Pit by throwing his buttons(regular suit) or his helmet(Warioware) at him.

He also possesses faster reactions.

Pit will likely die before he even gets his bow out.










Round 2 Losers


1.) Mewtwo Vs. Link: -1 Link. +1 Mewtwo.

Correct. Mewtwo's psychic powers makes this a slaughter. Also, Mewtwo fights Mach speed foes, while Link is not even peak human in speed.

2.) Bowser Vs. Lucas: -1 Lucas. +1 Bowser.

Correct. Reasonwise, check Mewtwo vs Bowser from earlier.


3.) Falco Vs. Metaknight: -1 Falco. +1 Metaknight.

Both are likely somewhere in the supersonic range. Meta-Knight can teleport, and Falco can't hipshot someone who's as fast/faster than he is easily, while a single slash from MK likely slices him in two.

4.) Luigi Vs. Roy: -1 Roy. +1 Luigi.

Correct. I believe Roy's pretty screwed considering Luigi's on par with Mario.

5.) Falcon Vs. Wolf: -1 Falcon. +1 Wolf.

Out of Vehicle: Falcon wins.
In Vehicle: Wolf likely wins.

6.) Lucario Vs. Diddy: -1 Diddy. +1 Lucario.

Diddy gets chestspiked.

7.) Pikachu Vs. Yoshi: -1 Yoshi. +1 Pikachu.

Wrong IMO, Yoshi is, again, Mario light.

8.) Zero Suit Samus Vs. King Dedede: -1 Dedede. +1 Zero Suit.

Correct.

Dedede fights a supersonic puffball, but ZSS is easily supersonic.

Also, this takes play in regular gravity, right? If so, Samus is strong enough to do a jump that can keep her in the air for 45 minutes(someone else did this calc). While ZSS might not be supersonic on Zebes without armor, she sure is in regular G.

Also, lol 86 ton strength will Kill D3.



9.) Donkey Kong Vs. Wario -1 Wario. +1 Donkey Kong.

*facepalm* Wario is faster, and unlike DK he can put his opponent down fast.



10.) Marth Vs. Mr. Game and Watch: -1 Mr. G&W. +1 Marth.

Correct. No other comment.



11.) Snake Vs. Pichu: -1 Pichu. +1 Snake.

Arguable.
Snake is superhuman(i actually believe someone calced him to be slightly supersonic), but logically, Pichu can tag easily supersonic foes.

It comes down to first strike here, and I'm unsure of who's faster.


12.) Fox Vs. R.O.B: -1 R.O.B. +1 Fox.

Page(s) This Was Discussed: 455

Summarized Reason: R.O.B is a toy robot, he really can't do anything.

13.) Pokemon Trainer Vs. Olimar -1 Olimar. +1 Pokemon Trainer.

Correct. Any of the stronger pokemon can handle olimar easily. And Olimar is not fast enough to kill the trainer beforehand.

 

[JOE!]

@ brining up past MUs:

seriously, bring it to a back room. Nobody wants to read that.

@hillary_clinton:

link can *gasp* carry **** with his hand/belt!

as it stands he only uses his bow and arrow, sowrd / shield, and some bombs (as well as posibly the hawkeye). All of which can easily be carrried on his person, and no, he wont be needing 30 bombs for what they'd do. having one or two would easily suffice.


samus' suit gives her armor, targeting HUD (both of which take relativley little to power) as well as the electrolaser. the RPG doesnt need energy to be fired, just to be able to be released.

as for agility, has he shown this anywhere else besides that one odd fight where he is on those poles? If he consitantly displays stuff like that then you have an argument....unless you wnat to go through and account for every little stupid thing a character has ever done (such as mario aving the ability to pass through matter with his *** cus he could do it in SM64)

 

[RWB]

@ brining up past MUs:

seriously, bring it to a back room. Nobody wants to read that.

A back room would be nice, but I suspect it would be locked.

Also, don't assume to speak for everyone. It's arrogant and annoying.

@hillary_clinton:

link can *gasp* carry **** with his hand/belt!

as it stands he only uses his bow and arrow, sowrd / shield, and some bombs (as well as posibly the hawkeye). All of which can easily be carrried on his person, and no, he wont be needing 30 bombs for what they'd do. having one or two would easily suffice.

One bomb would require at least one of his hands, they're too big to fit in his belt. And he has to light it and wait for it to explode. And the explosion's size is neglible.

Starting with a bomb in one hand would need him to hold something that can light it in the other. Great start setup there.

 

[JOE!]

thats why he can put his stuff down on the ground for a moment to do so

also, a bomb that big in Real life would do REDICULOUS damage

consider this: a frag grenade has a lethal radius of 40 ft

 

[REL38]

Why not discuss the other thread in that thread

All I have to say about TDB is:

1. All past MU's were rediscussed at one point

2. Questioning character existence has always been silly

3. Keeping up with the thread means super lurking
So many things points are brought throughout the thread that the original OP is rather unreliable as a reference for MU info other than "who vs who"

4. IMO Ness > Lucas due to a backpack


I'll get to the points relevent to this thread in a bit

 

[JOE!]

Actually, Ness > lucas because Ness is older....thus being better than Lucs if they were to go at it.

and yeah, I should stop trolling here...discuss this stuff in My thread

 

[REL38]

Pfft

Year difference, if that
Hardly notable

 

[Diddy Kong]

Bats > sticks. So Ness > Lucas. At least, in TBD.

My quick summary on why Roy > Marth (had it all worked out yesterday and then I lost it all...)

Turn 1:

Marth advances Roy, and attacks with Falchion.
Roy counter attacks with Durandal.

-1 Marth
-1 Roy

2:

Roy steps back and attacks Marth with a blast from the Sword of Seals.
Marth cannot counter attack cause Falchion isn't ranged.

-2 Marth
-1 Roy

3:

Marth attacks from close up again, and Roy counter attacks (I'm taking for granted now that both characters will hit each other each time).

-3 Marth
-2 Roy

4:

Roy then does a repeat on turn 2, and hits Marth with the Sword of Seals again from a range. Marth dies.

@ Current match up:

Pit wins cause of range and probably better equipment.

 

[RWB]

Bats > sticks. So Ness > Lucas. At least, in TBD.

My quick summary on why Roy > Marth (had it all worked out yesterday and then I lost it all...)

I will sadly have to destroy that argument.

2:

Roy steps back and attacks Marth with a blast from the Sword of Seals.
Marth cannot counter attack cause Falchion isn't ranged.

-2 Marth
-1 Roy

Marth's Shield of Seals(FE3 or FE1) nullifies distance attacks. Also cuts close combat damage in half. And he can heal himself.



And _clinton, I believe I agree on Marth>Roy canonwise as well.

 

[RWB]

thats why he can put his stuff down on the ground for a moment to do so

also, a bomb that big in Real life would do REDICULOUS damage

consider this: a frag grenade has a lethal radius of 40 ft

You're right, but there's a difference in how a frag grenade and this old version of bomb works(mostly with the explosive stuff itself).

But other than that...

The worst part is the fuse- it's very long, allowing any opponent to simply run away if Link throws it, or simply attack him while he holds it. He'd need to cut the fuse, start a fire light the fuse while not being atttacked at the same time. There's very few people who wouldn't easily deal with him during that time.


It's a good weapon, but very unwieldy.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Wait... Really? The Shield of Seals nullifies ranged attacks? Does this include bows?

I'm thinking this'll need re-discussion.

EDIT: Marth vs Roy should be a draw then cause imo it'll depend on who attacks who first. Still, Roy has got a little advantage in healing here. The Sword of Seals is able to heal 30 HP of damage, while the Falchion can heal only 10 HP.

 

[REL38]

If Wario can continuously be hit by the arrows and never be able to do anything, then the match is still in Pit's favor.

Raizen, do the next match-up. It seems as if Wario loses this one. Remember guys, MU's can be revisited.

Lrn2read JOE


@Clinton

Not like Wario ever uses a plane during gameplay, right?
That flight power-up is also slow so Pit can just fly away and use his multiple ranged weapons


@RWB

What exactly do you mean by Snake being "Supersonic"?
As well as other characters like Wario and Yoshi?

 

[Diddy Kong]

_clinton apperantly thinks Wario can run hyper sonic speeds cause he's able to walk over water after running over a standard 'booster' object which are very common in platform / racing games.

In reality, Wario isn't all that fast. And he would lose against Donkey Kong. (:

 

[REL38]

_clinton apperantly thinks Wario can run hyper sonic speeds cause he's able to walk over water after running over a standard 'booster' object which are very common in platform / racing games.

In reality, Wario isn't all that fast. And he would lose against Donkey Kong. (:

I agree with you

If that were the case, over half of the characters here will be supersonic in speed

 

[PowerBomb]

I see someone really wants Wario to lose.

Not at all. Well, I used to hate him until I watched Brawl Taunts a few times. Now I think his fat *** is hilarious. Besides, I know next to nothing about Wario/Pit.

Pit can't put Wario down. Wario is fast enough to avoid the arrows, and strong enough to take Pit down in one blow. Heck, he's strong enough that he could kill Pit by throwing his buttons(regular suit) or his helmet(Warioware) at him.

But Pit can spam arrows like crazy, right? Can he effectively put up a 'wall' of arrows?

He also possesses faster reactions.

orly. No, really? (not sarcasm) Give me some feats or something.

Pit will likely die before he even gets his bow out.

Doesn't Pit have those barrels of life or something? I heard someone say his shield deals large damage or something.

7.) Pikachu Vs. Yoshi: -1 Yoshi. +1 Pikachu.

Wrong IMO, Yoshi is, again, Mario light.

Care to explain this a bit?

Dedede fights a supersonic puffball, but ZSS is easily supersonic.

Also, this takes play in regular gravity, right? If so, Samus is strong enough to do a jump that can keep her in the air for 45 minutes(someone else did this calc). While ZSS might not be supersonic on Zebes without armor, she sure is in regular G.

Also, lol 86 ton strength will Kill D3.

Wait, what? Give me some more information on this.


Also, Samochan said something about how 'Pokedex' speed is not the actual base speed stat used in battles. Base speed stat used in battles is somewhat like maneuverability. So while Pidgeot might top Mach 2 speed, it gives reason as to why Swellow isn't said to be able to do this yet has a higher base speed than Pidgeot: It's smaller, more agile (being a swallow or something), and thus able to maneuver in battles.

 

[_clinton]

Samus has shown hypersonic reaction speed.

Ah no, Samus has shown that she can deal with Ridley in a small in-closed area where his abilities would clearly be limited. Metroid has it, Super Metroid has it, Metroid Fusion has it, Metroid Prime 3 has it for both of those areas, Samus 90% of the time is fighting Ridley in a smaller room.

Metroid Prime is different, but even that area clearly shows that there was a lot to cover Ridley’s fire for Samus to the point where Ridley couldn’t just fly around and blast the area randomly hoping to hit her with just his breath attacks. There is no way Samus would win if Ridley could just do that, he clearly just would just be pretty much impossible to hit in that game. One must wonder why he waited for his wings to burn off (which removed Ridley’s biggest speed advantage, because he can’t run at hypersonic speeds, nowhere near that in fact, he can only fly at those speeds, granted where is this info from anyway? The speed stat that is) before physically destroying all of Samus’ cover with those charge attacks. Of course that may be because Ridley is an arrogant ****er, because his nature has clearly showed that to be the case with stuff like the Manga.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tejP0L5XbKQ

And Lucas does not have any story feats that can make him survive a hypersonic dashthrough by Samus(Mach 17 boost).

Samus is moving at supersonic speed with the speed booster, not hypersonic:
http://metroid.retropixel.net/metroid4/manual/m4_16.jpg
It is kind of hard to get hypersonic from that when they clearly say supersonic, hell even the foe that restores Samus’ speed booster in that game somehow is said that it moves at supersonic speed (and btw, that certainly is the hardest foe in that game up to that point that you have to fight).

Oh and if you don’t think the foes Lucas is fighting are “real lighting” or whatever, then what are they anyway? The ones I’m thinking of are clearly discharged off stuff like the thunder tower for starters, so it is clear that they would “shock” you at least.

Oh and again, teleport > super speed, Samus certainly hasn’t been fighting any foes that teleport in her games, just saying (Chozo Ghosts don’t teleport and other foes don’t teleport as well).

Pikachu is faster, and even if he weren't, link actually needs to take his time to use the spell- which is too long.

How is a pikachu faster than something like Tink just activating Magic armor? It isn’t like NL from OoT, it just comes on. And how is Pikachu faster anyway? The base speed stat or something? **** the base speed stat doesn’t mean ****, Pidgeot can fly at mach 2 speed at max yet there are plenty of pokemon that have a higher base speed (oh and yeah, Pidgeot’s base is 91, Pikachu’s base is 90, that is why I reference it).
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pidgeot_(Pokémon)#Pok.C3.A9dex_entries_2

The base speeds actually change as well depending on the game type as well, PMD for example doesn’t have a speed stat.

Yink>Tink? Are F***ing kidding me? MM Link stands no chance against WW Link whatsoever. NOTHING he can do is on par. And no, his masks do nothing to bridge that gap.

The bunny hood heightens Yink’s senses (as in ups his reaction time for example) and increases his physical traits such as movement speed as well, which pretty much make him have a mini super human essence by going to the animal sense of it. Where is Tink’s buff to his senses and speed that he could call upon?

Gorons are living rock which in order for a normal human to out muscle them you need stuff like the iron boots as seen in things like TP otherwise they can just send you flying effortlessly, plus in TP as well the Gorons have been shown to do super strength things like destroy a huge boulder or two. I’m not going to bring up the other two masks because I’m aware that a fire arrow is bad news for the Zora and Deku.

I don’t see the stone mask working with Tink because of him having the hero’s charm that lets him read the life force of his foes, but I’m talking about it anyway just so it is out in the open.
http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Hero's_Charm
Of course, it’s not like Yink can’t see into the hearts and minds of people, please note the Mask of Truth for starters, so don’t think that Tink could hide what he is planning to do with Yink if he were to use that mask.

So, on another note what makes you think Yink couldn’t just become giant using the giant mask and then crush Tink or Pichu?

Also, how about a non direct way of just beating Pikachu or Pichu? What makes you think the Bremen Mask wouldn’t tame them? Or at least Pichu for sure because it has to grow still clearly more than Pikachu, but you can clearly see that the mask has an effect on other animals (dogs) as well. Part of me thinks that might work with Lucario and Jiggs as well, not the PT though because his pokemon are already tame, and not Mewtwo because he is salvage anyway.

As far as swords go though, of course the Kokiri sword isn’t as strong as the master sword, not going to try that even with something like the Glided sword, granted it’s not like that blade is the only sword Yink has. Just saying, there is stuff like the Great Fairy’s sword, and the Fierce Deity’s sword. The Great Fairy’s in other Zelda games have been clearly shown to make stuff that ****s evil and is powerful on top of that. I mean in LttP they make even the master sword stronger after it was improved to the point of “human perfection” for that game, plus guess where you get the arrows that kill Ganon from?

So, if they can make a sword like the master sword stronger and supply stuff to **** Ganon up if they are POed enough, I like think they are pretty good at what they do.
Oh and the GFS has one of the most ****** designs in the Zelda games as well (****ing love it man).

FDM’s sword is as strong as the GFS in strength for basic hits, but those disks of death that they shoot are some of the strongest attack in the game for MM. The things out power the light arrows, just saying. On top of that they cost ½ a point of magic to use, compared to the 4 from the light arrows. So, they are cheap on cost and super effective on all! Oh and they are rapid fire weapons as well that break through the protection that the few foes you might be fighting have (as in the bosses). So yeah, the demon god thing or whatever FD is makes its point about being the most powerful thing in MM by far.

The mask’s figure being like 10 feet tall makes sense!

Plus finally as far as your examples of Tink’s durability goes, the more extreme ones seem to be comic relief like how Mario throws a castle in SMW. Granted Mario has about 50 other things that show off his super strength at the least, I don’t see any contractions to that.

Also, Zora Link is still just as weak to electicity as regular Link, while Pichu takes lessened damage from it. He'd still die fast, storywise.

You know, it is kind of funny how you say all of the foes Ness fights are just “game mechanics/play” that doesn’t count (yet fun fact, if you think game mechanics don’t count, then does that mean none of the characters would ever die? Because HP is a game mechanic you know), yet you can’t see the same with pokemon. It’s hard to take the battle system serious when you see things like a Magikarp beating a bunch of god pokemon (even if the user did **** up).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye7b3bOQ6lY

I mean things the dex clearly show that several things are a bit off about the battle system (in case you didn’t get that point about Pikachu learning thunderbolt but only Raichu’s dex supports it, Raichu’s dex also says that he can take down an elephant with his power, what is the best stuff for Pikachu?).

Pichu’s pokedex entry clearly points out that it isn’t a match for a human as far as electricity goes as well:
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pichu_(Pokémon)#Pok.C3.A9dex_entries_2

Plus Pikachu and Pichu are common pets in the pokemon world for kids, why would anyone sane give a dangerous pokemon to a kid? I mean trainers starting off just get some little baby thing that isn’t deadly in the games.

And unlike Tink, his story feats says he would die from a thunder.

Right, why would thunder kill him when he can fight foes like twin mold, and handle extreme conditions (snowpoint) as well for starters?

Pretty sure she survived Bowser ripping her castle into space. That's what makes it a durability feat.

Bowser was using the power of the stars though to do that, why wouldn’t she be protected from that? Pretty sure Bowser wants Peach to love him, not kill her.

On that note, being Bowser does suck though (poor guy), I mean them getting married pretty much threatened the universe in Super Paper Mario, plus the ending of SMG2 with him says enough as well.

The minus world was a mental thing.

Ah yes or no. The place was made from the summoning of a bunch of demons and the like according to the game (said foes are real, just saying), so while it certainly wasn’t a “real” place as for what we would consider real, it certainly would have been real to be ****ed by it due to the various demons and **** running around.

It certainly was deadly to be in there as well according to the game (the claim was that who was in there would go crazy according to NPC data for starters as well).

The other stuff are gameplay, and none of them has the same method of inflicting damage as a blaster anyway.

He fights space ships packing lasers, and how do you think the foes that Ness fights don’t count? You don’t see me saying that the foes Samus fights don’t count do you?

Also, Starmen are packing blasters, tons of foes for the games are packing blasters, why is Wolf’s special?

Ness wins if he's fast and can stun Wolf, but his feats aren't up to it.

He fights foes that teleport, he clearly shows being able to teleport himself, and even if the foes can’t teleport they still clearly have various foes packing super speed.

Oh and what makes you think his other traits aren’t good? He fights a bunch of foes for starters who have all absorbed a certain % of the earth’s power because of them being under Giygas’ influence (and if that isn’t enough of a hint towards Ness being Giygas’ counterpart which is why he is afraid of him, he is also the only other foe besides Ness himself that uses PK Rockin, but whatever).

**** just the idea of him teleporting is kind of risky, note what happens to him if he crashes? Plus it’s not like PK powers are just user friendly as well, I mean Starstorm if used wrong could cause harm to your allies as well as foes due to what you are using your TK to use Starstorm with, and Rockin/Love, the fact that they are linked to creation itself is just ****ed up.

It's achievements. If said monsters are very fast, very strong and so on, it's more impressive. But unless he showed feats of strength and speed, it's not helping him here.
Okay, SKILL feats, but against his opponent here we need other feats.

Ok, that claim is fair, because I’ve been saying it for about 900 posts when it comes to Ganondorf. So how are the achievements of the goddess in KI not good? Pit’s god, she is a creation goddess in that game for starters, and she is overthrown by her counterpart (you know, the type that likes to destroy, which is where those monster types come from anyway).

Here is a list of monsters btw:
http://www.flyingomelette.com/kidicarus/kidicarusenemies.html
The 1st boss of the game is pretty much the guardian of hell himself AKA Cerberus for starters.

Anyway, I'm a bit behind with your other posts, so I'll try to get to them ASAP k?

 

[warpd]

I really don't see how Wario can hurt Pit when he has the superior range and flying abilities. On top of that he has his own shield and healing items. If for some reason Pit can't hurt Wario then this match is a draw.

 

[_clinton]

Correct. Mewtwo's psychic powers makes this a slaughter. Also, Mewtwo fights Mach speed foes, while Link is not even peak human in speed.

Mewtwo really is like one of the only pokemon out there in the pokemon world who I actually will argue with him being able to fight mach speed foes just fine (due to his history and that stuff).

Of course, I don’t really see any proof of Mewtwo being able to match those speeds, I just feel his psychic powers are that good.

Correct. Reasonwise, check Mewtwo vs Bowser from earlier.

How is the power of the dragon (power of the earth) weaker than the star rod/grand stars? Also, unlike Bowser, Lucas can actually lay claim to what his power is for himself as in Bowser is stealing it, which btw what is stopping Lucas from stealing the star rod?

I mean both of them pretty much let the user get whatever they want, and unlike the star rod which was cancelled out by the stars the power of the dragon is a bit harder to stop.

Out of Vehicle: Falcon wins.
In Vehicle: Wolf likely wins.

Falcon’s falcon flyer is the actual ship Falcon uses for his bounty hunting missions, not the Blue Falcon, that thing is only stored in the Falcon Flyer for racing, plus it’s not like Wolf is the only one travelling at the speed of sound and the like.

Falcon should win IMO.

Wrong IMO, Yoshi is, again, Mario light.

I’ve been talking about this for a while as well, Yoshi’s eggs/melons/explosives and other items would be more than enough for a wild Pikachu.

Fire work egg anyone (seen in Yoshi’s story/YIDS)?

While ZSS might not be supersonic on Zebes without armor, she sure is in regular G.

I always thought Zebes was hard to live on because of all the lava and stuff and how only a small % of it is really livable in (Brinstar) for 60% of the creatures which makes competition fierce on the planet, not because of the gravity.

*facepalm* Wario is faster, and unlike DK he can put his opponent down fast.

Wario is also stronger, more durable, and has better item selection than DK has as well.

Snake is superhuman(i actually believe someone calced him to be slightly supersonic), but logically, Pichu can tag easily supersonic foes.

Snake can take psychics, nukes, and so on, your saying Pichu can compete with supersonic foes doesn’t work when the dex disagrees with you, the game mechanics disagree with you, and so on.

@hillary_clinton:

God, you really are the most creative person ever huh?

samus' suit gives her armor, targeting HUD (both of which take relativley little to power) as well as the electrolaser. the RPG doesnt need energy to be fired, just to be able to be released.

So, how is armor, a better sight, and a gun with an RPG making her win everything again with a IRL setting?

as for agility, has he shown this anywhere else besides that one odd fight where he is on those poles?

Yes, the entire game has him doing stuff like that, why don't you play it?

consider this: a frag grenade has a lethal radius of 40 ft

Too bad the stuff he has is medieval time stuff and not that, Lucas is packing more as far as potent weapons go when it comes to bombs (and because like I said already, I don't see how logically Ness would get his explosives in game).

4. IMO Ness > Lucas due to a backpack

^_^

Well he can hold more at least.

Bats > sticks. So Ness > Lucas. At least, in TBD.

As far as close range stuff goes, Lucas is packing a bit more than a stick in his game; the basic stick stuff is just for his 1st weapons, just like how a plastic bat, or “made for little kids” gear are Ness’ 1st weapons. By the end of the game Lucas' best weapon is one bat that clearly belonged to Ness at some point, but until then he was clearly using battle staffs and the like.
As in stuff like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bō

And _clinton, I believe I agree on Marth>Roy canonwise as well.

So, how come game mechanics are the cause of Marth vs. Roy changing and not actual stuff in the game that actually maters? What the **** is up with that?

Not like Wario ever uses a plane during gameplay, right?
That flight power-up is also slow so Pit can just fly away and use his multiple ranged weapons

No actually Wario has used his plane in game play, he has been a foe at several points or another as well you know. Personally I don't know why Wario wouldn't just hypnotize Pit.

Oh and "jet cap," "eagle cap," and "king dragon cap" are again things that allow Wario flight, he also has rocket barrels in case you missed that, and some reaction abilities that allow it.

If that were the case, over half of the characters here will be supersonic in speed

So, how many other characters besides Sonic (and he needs to be using his boost speed), Wario, haven't been affected by the pulling of water again dragging them under if they try to run across it?

I've seen Luigi run across it because of his speed, but after a while it pulls him in, and Samus is a different story for how water affects her in the 1st place. Ness isn’t affected by it when teleporting as well, but again it isn’t like what I see Wario doing.

Besides, I know next to nothing about Wario/Pit.

^_^

So, who's fault is that?

But Pit can spam arrows like crazy, right? Can he effectively put up a 'wall' of arrows?

Wario can make a shield with his art form and then just shoot Pit like crazy with his cosmic form if it comes to range.

orly. No, really? (not sarcasm) Give me some feats or something.

So, him being able to run across water and so on isn't impressive to you? Again, how many other characters in this thread are unaffected by water when running in it?

Doesn't Pit have those barrels of life or something? I heard someone say his shield deals large damage or something.

Wario has healing items as well, and control over various animals as in WL3, not that that matters though (the animals part).

 

[RWB]

So, how come game mechanics are the cause of Marth vs. Roy changing and not actual stuff in the game that actually maters? What the **** is up with that?

I didn't say I changed my mind because of that. I went by story. >_>

I always thought Zebes was hard to live on because of all the lava and stuff and how only a small % of it is really livable in (Brinstar) for 60% of the creatures which makes competition fierce on the planet, not because of the gravity.

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=166365

Calculation of Zebes gravity- It's more than 800 times higher than the Earth's.

Ah no, Samus has shown that she can deal with Ridley in a small in-closed area where his abilities would clearly be limited. Metroid has it, Super Metroid has it, Metroid Fusion has it, Metroid Prime 3 has it for both of those areas, Samus 90% of the time is fighting Ridley in a smaller room. [/url]

Doesn't matter. He needs to have hypersonic reactions to fly at that speed, and if he's hypersonic in reaction and samus isn't, he can kill her before he thinks.

You do realize that if Ridley is Mach 5(lowest level hypersonic) and Samus is Mach 4.5, he's still too fast for her to even see.

His speed calcs come from space flight.

Samus is moving at supersonic speed with the speed booster, not hypersonic:
http://metroid.retropixel.net/metroid4/manual/m4_16.jpg
It is kind of hard to get hypersonic from that when they clearly say supersonic, hell even the foe that restores Samus’ speed booster in that game somehow is said that it moves at supersonic speed (and btw, that certainly is the hardest foe in that game up to that point that you have to fight).

A gametrailers clip(Metroid retrospective) put the speed booster at mach 9. Though that might not be canon.

Oh and if you don’t think the foes Lucas is fighting are “real lighting” or whatever, then what are they anyway? The ones I’m thinking of are clearly discharged off stuff like the thunder tower for starters, so it is clear that they would “shock” you at least.

Can you give me a link to said enemies?

I need to actually understand which ones you're talking of.

Oh and again, teleport > super speed, Samus certainly hasn’t been fighting any foes that teleport in her games, just saying (Chozo Ghosts don’t teleport and other foes don’t teleport as well).

Teleport does not beat super speed. It's very useful, though.

Example:
Fred can teleport. Paul has superspeed.

Paul punches Fred out before he can react, or instantly after he has arrived at his teleport spot.

Or...
Goku can teleport. Superman has much higher speed.

Superman will win every time due to much higher speed.

SuperSpeed>nearly everything in a battle scenario.

How is a pikachu faster than something like Tink just activating Magic armor? It isn’t like NL from OoT, it just comes on. And how is Pikachu faster anyway? The base speed stat or something? **** the base speed stat doesn’t mean ****, Pidgeot can fly at mach 2 speed at max yet there are plenty of pokemon that have a higher base speed (oh and yeah, Pidgeot’s base is 91, Pikachu’s base is 90, that is why I reference it).
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pidgeot_(Pokémon)#Pok.C3.A9dex_entries_2

Again: ALL pokemon can fight against eachother except legendaries. That's canon. That means EVERY single one needs to have supersonic reactions. They need not be supersonic, but their reactions are.

The bunny hood heightens Yink’s senses (as in ups his reaction time for example) and increases his physical traits such as movement speed as well, which pretty much make him have a mini super human essence by going to the animal sense of it. Where is Tink’s buff to his senses and speed that he could call upon?

The bunny hood makes him how much faster? Not beyond human levels.

Gorons are living rock which in order for a normal human to out muscle them you need stuff like the iron boots as seen in things like TP otherwise they can just send you flying effortlessly, plus in TP as well the Gorons have been shown to do super strength things like destroy a huge boulder or two. I’m not going to bring up the other two masks because I’m aware that a fire arrow is bad news for the Zora and Deku.

WW Link has both Iron boots AND enough strength to throw gorons(Power Bracelets).

http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Hero's_Charm
Of course, it’s not like Yink can’t see into the hearts and minds of people, please note the Mask of Truth for starters, so don’t think that Tink could hide what he is planning to do with Yink if he were to use that mask.

So, on another note what makes you think Yink couldn’t just become giant using the giant mask and then crush Tink or Pichu?

Tink has been shown to survive much greater force than Yink can put out, even as giant.



Also, how about a non direct way of just beating Pikachu or Pichu? What makes you think the Bremen Mask wouldn’t tame them? Or at least Pichu for sure because it has to grow still clearly more than Pikachu, but you can clearly see that the mask has an effect on other animals (dogs) as well. Part of me thinks that might work with Lucario and Jiggs as well, not the PT though because his pokemon are already tame, and not Mewtwo because he is salvage anyway.

He doesn't get the time. Even if Pichu is base human in speed it can still Thunder wave faster than Yink plucks forth a mask and puts it on.



FDM’s sword is as strong as the GFS in strength for basic hits, but those disks of death that they shoot are some of the strongest attack in the game for MM. The things out power the light arrows, just saying. On top of that they cost ½ a point of magic to use, compared to the 4 from the light arrows. So, they are cheap on cost and super effective on all! Oh and they are rapid fire weapons as well that break through the protection that the few foes you might be fighting have (as in the bosses). So yeah, the demon god thing or whatever FD is makes its point about being the most powerful thing in MM by far.

The mask’s figure being like 10 feet tall makes sense!

The mask have NO STORY FEATS. ALL GAMEPLAY.


Plus finally as far as your examples of Tink’s durability goes, the more extreme ones seem to be comic relief like how Mario throws a castle in SMW. Granted Mario has about 50 other things that show off his super strength at the least, I don’t see any contractions to that.[/QUOTE]

Him surviving the birds throw was done in a serious manner. You can't dismiss it as a joke feat.

We go by everyone elses best feats, why not his?

Otherwise we have mario die instantly from touching anything sharp, bowser dying from heat...



Right, why would thunder kill him when he can fight foes like twin mold, and handle extreme conditions (snowpoint) as well for starters?[/QUOTE]



Because he's below human level in real- CANON durability? KO'd by falling of a horse= story feat, which beats any gameplay. Ever.

Lightning bolts kill humans- except in a few lucky cases.


Ah yes or no. The place was made from the summoning of a bunch of demons and the like according to the game (said foes are real, just saying), so while it certainly wasn’t a “real” place as for what we would consider real, it certainly would have been real to be ****ed by it due to the various demons and **** running around.

It certainly was deadly to be in there as well according to the game (the claim was that who was in there would go crazy according to NPC data for starters as well).[/QUOTE]

It's still a mental place, much like Itachi's tsukiyomi. It attacks the mind.



He fights space ships packing lasers, and how do you think the foes that Ness fights don’t count? You don’t see me saying that the foes Samus fights don’t count do you?

Also, Starmen are packing blasters, tons of foes for the games are packing blasters, why is Wolf’s special?
[/QUOTE]

Because we never see him avoid the blasters in a story scene. For all we know they miss.



Ok, that claim is fair, because I’ve been saying it for about 900 posts when it comes to Ganondorf. So how are the achievements of the goddess in KI not good? Pit’s god, she is a creation goddess in that game for starters, and she is overthrown by her counterpart (you know, the type that likes to destroy, which is where those monster types come from anyway). [/QUOTE]

Creation goddess is impressive, but unless we're actually shown reasons for Pit to beat her logically, it's just plot power.


Example:
Final Fantasy- Cloud is completely inferior to Sephiroth, in every way. In fact he's far too strong for Cloud's entire team.

But somehow Cloud beats him on his own REPEATEDLY, despite it making no logical sense.

That's plot power. When a character beats another despite making no sense at all.