Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

[Diddy Kong]

No, that animation is of FE7's Eliwood. He's Roy's father though, whos the star of FE6. Roy doesn't have a horse, but can use the same blade as his father.

 

[_clinton]

Why should I remember everything you said? Why don't you just copy it here so I can read it?

Ok…I’ll repeat the list again…
-The 7 Star Children in the Mario universe if put together have universal power
-The triforce is a world altering power if full…or another part remains unchallenged (fun fact…OoT is funny…how is a 17 year old with the mind of a 10 year old a better candidate for the master sword than said 10 year old himself)
-Samus and her suit…are among the ultimate “creations” of a race of bird people who created life…
-Pit has killed a being that ****ed a god
-I wonder how many people have played G&W games/ROBs games?
-Kirby is killing all powerful demons and so on, plus there is some background about him that is just funny
-Fox has killed a being that became an all out powerful god with help from said teams
-Falcon…has beat said gods of his world…and has a fun filled history himself
-Pokemon…yeah
-FE characters always end up killing some god like stuff…why is only Ike special again?
-EB…yeah
-Snake…yeah he is a clone of a super solider…
-Sonic…yeah…do I have to explain the DBZ rip off?

I'm just giving an example... <_< If Zero Suit Samus can now disarm people because that's "logical" but totally unrelated to her in game abilities then Mario I think should be breaking skulls.

Except if we go by a logical point…how is Mario “jumping” on people going to break their skulls anyway?

So Fire Emblem characters should get a big boost (especially Ike) because they all become the most famous war generals / fighters in their continent.

It's cannon, because in the game there's always mention of some heroes of old, who fought the same ****, with the same weapons, centuries earlier. Your characters sorta become these heroes, and the only reason why you say that isn't true is because the game allows you to pick 90% of the fighters you use in the final battle yourself.

Except those weapons they are using in the 1st place…at least in Roy’s canon games…have a soul of their own…Eliwood even points out that he doesn’t have flat out perfect control over his weapon in said game (check later in this post for video)…as in…the SWORD itself GUIDES him when he uses it for the 1st time! (so…when I said that the FE characters are killing gods/stuff like that…it really is only because of their tools that are only USING them…not them using the tools)

It is rather unimportant yeah, but in game abilities should count.

Yeah to a point…but things like how much damage they do should only matter as a measurement to their canon only (because again…why are people comparing an FPS to an RPG?)

I don't give a **** about how much HP, Offence or Speed Lucas, Mario or Pikachu have in their games it's their abilities and overall fighting powers in their own games.

And you shouldn’t…because stuff like that changes a lot…with few exceptions

That being said, Mewtwo vs Ness should change.

How so…Ness is packing a universal power…Mewtwo at best can only compete with the middle ground gods if we measure stats…as in...not the 1000 armed one...

It could be... How long can a sword stay sharp or usable anyways? Are swords made in the 14th century still usable in these times?

Those swords have a mind of their own for starters at least in Roy’s canon…and do more damage than steel/iron/silver…and I like how you seem to be ok with steel being more fragile than iron by arguing with my point about stats in the 1st place…WTF man?

Roy also isn't fighting regular human characters. Fire Emblem deffinatly makes huge gaps between the humans your fighting. In the first chapter you'll fight bandits and novice soldiers, but later on you'll be killing elite squads of powerful nations.

Yeah…he goes from fighting with an advantage to fighting foes on even terms…how about that…notice how those fights are harder?

So your still putting Mother 3's cannon higher than others, because you prefer it above the others. >_>

So…the fact that I actually get Mother 3’s script must mean that I prefer it above the others huh? >_>

Of course…I’ll admit that overall…Ness/Lucas do have a plus over certain other characters packing god powers of some sort…what with how “it’s their’s naturally” for starters…

Deffinatly. But Roy isn't exactly a normal human either anymore. Normal humans like novice soldiers and bandits (who are still stronger than the true "normal human" NPCs) cannot even touch or damage Roy with their weapons by end game.

1. Normal human NPCs can’t touch anyone…they are unarmed for starters…
2. What you just said…Novice soldiers and bandits…that is the key word…poor armed/not that well trained soldiers…you don’t see certain other foes having trouble with Roy that are on his terms of being armed/trained do you?

I know but I fail to see how that makes her win against Roy. She'd whoop Roy's *** in an instant with suit, but she loses without it... Why can't it just be that simple to you? <_<

Samus w/o her suit is still impressive in case you don’t get that…she isn’t some unarmed peasant/novice foot soldier/poorly armed bandit…she is above Roy physically for starters and beyond the word of “well-trained” (read…a normal human…but packing a special weapon…which BTW…will not do extra damage to Samus if you want to go by those games rules)

Why can’t it be that simple to you that chances are…a fight with them is a draw? The Sword of Seals is by far a better weapon than a taser…but Samus is by far above “normal” humans physically…and is well trained…

Then play the game a few grades harder. Sure your happy that certain characters become one man armies, after the huge pain in the *** getting them that strong in the first place. >_>

Certain characters become one man armies for a reason…maybe because those certain characters are more powerful by themselves than what the FE characters are (Mario is a star child…Roy has a special sword…which one do you think is easier to make weak…the one who you can just knock away his sword…or the one who has his powers inside of him and are truly his?)

It isn’t like that for the FE world because based off their canon…there are 8+ holy weapons in Roy’s FE universe that were used in the past to save everything…and even then…those people went on to found their own nations that used the weapons…you can’t just start a country with one person per weapon you know…

Samus is a one woman army herself. With her suit on. Why can't Roy be with his sword?

Samus’ suit is linked to her for starters…so…which one is easier to beat fully…the person who has a suit of power linked by a psychic connection…or a guy wielding a magic sword and said sword chances are…is using the guy more the guy is using the sword?

I’m not saying the weapons are weak…according to the FE canon for Roy…the weapons put together have a “world” altering power…and the sword of seals is the strongest one of them overall…however…the users of these things are just normal humans for the most part (well…I’ll bite with Roy…part of me thinks he is “1/4th dragon” if his Mom is a certain character)

Luckily for you, as PowerBomb said earlier, ZSS can have the Screw Attack, Wave Beam and others. Just ask him, I dunno exactly but it had to do with Metroid 1.

That is another thing I disagree with PowerBomb with…ZSS never used the screw attack or any of that other stuff…Metroid 1 where you can play as suitless Samus is NOT canon!

If ZSS would win, it's because of that because I cannot see her winning with her stunner gun alone.

She isn’t going to just win with a stunner gun alone…she is also above normal humans by far physically and is well trained…and again…I could see the match going either way…that is what “a tie” is…

You mean that sword is too heavy for Roy? How come?

Well…for one thing…you should look at the things past and my comment on how the weapons use the user more than the user uses them themselves…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKEMwo-d4UM

Eliwood clearly makes a comment on “how the sword itself” guided him to kill said “ice dragon”

ZSS isn't a swordfighter.

Right…she is trained in close range combat situations as well you know…she was raised to be the “ultimate warrior” in case you forgot that…which is partly why being in her situation that she was in M:ZM wasn’t fatal like it would be to pretty much anyone else…ever see Rambo? I’m pretty sure I could compare that to Zamus’ situation where you actually use her if I wanted to…

Surely you could agree that in this case legendary dragon killing fire sword > stun gun right?

Maybe you haven’t noticed…but I never said Roy’s weapon was weak…and again…how is that legendary dragon killing fire sword going to be “super effective” on Samus?

Well, as you said before Samus IS a super human atlethe...

So…how does she have a weakness to a fire sword because of her being that?

Well, the last chapters in Fire Emblem are always amongst the easiest because of how powerful your characters become. Dragon slaying ability is like you said, more "just because" than anything.

Yeah…who’d have thought being in an advantaged situation would make things easier…

Still disagreeing.

Are you trying to tell me Roy would beat this guy:

Doesn't Roy have liek, armor?

Diddy already pointed out that the guy on the horsey was Eliwood…so I’m happy I don’t have to do that…even though I wanted to =,(

But yeah…what makes you think Roy’s Dark Ages Armor is going to stand up to a futuristic taser in the 1st place? When it still at least stuns the space pirates?

Oh…and I really have to wonder if Roy could get up if knocked down anyway
If I’m to use logical reasoning for this…getting knocked down in heavy armor was fatal for the most part in said time line…plus all you have to do is aim for the open parts of armor as well when they were down…but wait…Roy isn’t a knight/general class is he? His body isn’t anywhere the term of heavily armored like they are…

Oh...and to respond to you thinking Roy will beat Samus in hand to hand just because of his armor packed punch...you seem to not understand how Samus is above average in durability as well...she can take falls outside of her suit...that would kill or at least really harm humans for starters...she beats normal humans physically in everything (got to love that Mary Sue characteristic)

She could survive on Zebes for more reasons other than just living in the environment...her body "is not human"

…her puny stun gun, 99hp and some hand-to-hand combat we could only begin guessing.

What makes you think she has only 99 HP? Just wondering…oh...and what does 99 HP really mean in case you haven't been paying attention to the bloody point I've been making about video game stats in the 1st place?

 

[Crystanium]

I just thought I'd throw this out. It's something I wrote at Wikitroid in the Trivia section for Zebes.

"Planet Zebes is 11,700 km in diameter, while Earth is 12,756.2 km in diameter. Not only does this mean that Zebes is slightly smaller than Earth, but because of lesser mass, Zebes may also have lighter gravity."

The lighter gravity might not be of great significance. Also, Tallon IV is 643.8 km more in diameter than Earth. That is to say, it's 13,400 kilometers in diameter. So, Tallon IV's gravity is probably a bit greater than Earth's.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ok…I’ll repeat the list again…
-The 7 Star Children in the Mario universe if put together have universal power
-The triforce is a world altering power if full…or another part remains unchallenged (fun fact…OoT is funny…how is a 17 year old with the mind of a 10 year old a better candidate for the master sword than said 10 year old himself)
-Samus and her suit…are among the ultimate “creations” of a race of bird people who created life…
-Pit has killed a being that ****ed a god
-I wonder how many people have played G&W games/ROBs games?
-Kirby is killing all powerful demons and so on, plus there is some background about him that is just funny
-Fox has killed a being that became an all out powerful god with help from said teams
-Falcon…has beat said gods of his world…and has a fun filled history himself
-Pokemon…yeah
-FE characters always end up killing some god like stuff…why is only Ike special again?
-EB…yeah
-Snake…yeah he is a clone of a super solider…
-Sonic…yeah…do I have to explain the DBZ rip off?

Yes, but its still easy to make out who's stronger than who out of that because of the character's abilities, equipment, ect. For example, we could all agree Samus beats Kirby right?

Except if we go by a logical point…how is Mario “jumping” on people going to break their skulls anyway?

Because Mario's fat.

Except those weapons they are using in the 1st place…at least in Roy’s canon games…have a soul of their own…Eliwood even points out that he doesn’t have flat out perfect control over his weapon in said game (check later in this post for video)…as in…the SWORD itself GUIDES him when he uses it for the 1st time! (so…when I said that the FE characters are killing gods/stuff like that…it really is only because of their tools that are only USING them…not them using the tools)

Yeah, that's in FE7 and only in that cutscene. In game the weapons work pretty much the same as regular ones, except with an added animation or music.. >_> And I'm pretty sure you have to be skilled with said weapon anyway to weild it, which again... is explained in game.

Just because EarthBound and Mother 3 don't make much sence in game doesn't mean other games don't...

Yeah to a point…but things like how much damage they do should only matter as a measurement to their canon only (because again…why are people comparing an FPS to an RPG?)

You have a better way of doing that? You wouldn't agree for example that a OHKO move in one game, would have a similair effect on a character from another?

How so…Ness is packing a universal power…Mewtwo at best can only compete with the middle ground gods if we measure stats…as in...not the 1000 armed one...

I don't understand.

Those swords have a mind of their own for starters at least in Roy’s canon…and do more damage than steel/iron/silver…and I like how you seem to be ok with steel being more fragile than iron by arguing with my point about stats in the 1st place…WTF man?

It doesn't makes the weapons less powerful, and I don't know **** about medival weapons so I'll still be agreeing with game mechanics here. If Marth for example would attack Mario with an Iron Sword from his game, I'm saying yes he'll do less damage than if he would attack with a Silver or Steel Sword.

Yeah…he goes from fighting with an advantage to fighting foes on even terms…how about that…notice how those fights are harder?

They're not. The first few chapters can be one of the hardest in the game because your characters aren't much stronger than the bandits in the first place. Like I said before, try playing Fire Emblem a few grades harder. You'll be HAPPY when you slaughter Wyvern Lords like crazy with one character only.

So…the fact that I actually get Mother 3’s script must mean that I prefer it above the others huh? >_>

No, it's mostly because your over exaggerating. Your not much different than the standard Pokemon fanboy claiming Mewtwo can blow up minds for example. Time and space control anyone?

I mean no offence but any game cannon can be over exaggerated, you could argue Mario would beat anyone because of the game scripts and stuff.

Of course…I’ll admit that overall…Ness/Lucas do have a plus over certain other characters packing god powers of some sort…what with how “it’s their’s naturally” for starters…

I disagree.

1. Normal human NPCs can’t touch anyone…they are unarmed for starters…

In some chapters in Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones you have to protect NPC characters from getting killed by monsters. Their weak *** stats again make sence there.

2. What you just said…Novice soldiers and bandits…that is the key word…poor armed/not that well trained soldiers…you don’t see certain other foes having trouble with Roy that are on his terms of being armed/trained do you?

I personally, have more trouble in every playthrough of FE:Shadow Dragon with the first chapter (bandits) than fighting the real armies.

Samus w/o her suit is still impressive in case you don’t get that…she isn’t some unarmed peasant/novice foot soldier/poorly armed bandit…she is above Roy physically for starters and beyond the word of “well-trained”

ZSS deffinatly would be more agile than Roy. But I'm saying Roy is packing more strenght and stamina here, plus a more dangerous weapon leading me to think that you know... He'll win this?

Zero Suit Samus is in a rediculous disadvantage in her Zero Suit state. It isn't that hard to understand that Samus >>>>>> Roy > Zero Suit Samus right?

(read…a normal human…but packing a special weapon…which BTW…will not do extra damage to Samus if you want to go by those games rules)

No, but the weapon still kills enemies MUCH better armoured than ZSS. King Zephiel for example. Your saying Zero Suit Samus is better able to take hits from Roy's sword than him?

Why can’t it be that simple to you that chances are…a fight with them is a draw? The Sword of Seals is by far a better weapon than a taser…but Samus is by far above “normal” humans physically…and is well trained…

Yeah she's above normal humans and well trained. This could be a draw yeah, but I think eventually Roy will beat Zero Suit Samus. Besides, Roy has stuff to heal himself with as Elixers, ZSS has nothing. Roy will simply last longer, and do more damage.

Certain characters become one man armies for a reason…maybe because those certain characters are more powerful by themselves than what the FE characters are (Mario is a star child…Roy has a special sword…which one do you think is easier to make weak…the one who you can just knock away his sword…or the one who has his powers inside of him and are truly his?)

Mario beats Roy without doubt. But disarming Roy likely isn't as easy as you make it sound.

It isn’t like that for the FE world because based off their canon…there are 8+ holy weapons in Roy’s FE universe that were used in the past to save everything…and even then…those people went on to found their own nations that used the weapons…you can’t just start a country with one person per weapon you know…

Dunno about that really. Don't care much about it either.

Samus’ suit is linked to her for starters…so…which one is easier to beat fully…the person who has a suit of power linked by a psychic connection…or a guy wielding a magic sword and said sword chances are…is using the guy more the guy is using the sword?

Samus beats Roy because of her equipment and ability advantage, yeah.

I’m not saying the weapons are weak…according to the FE canon for Roy…the weapons put together have a “world” altering power…and the sword of seals is the strongest one of them overall…however…the users of these things are just normal humans for the most part (well…I’ll bite with Roy…part of me thinks he is “1/4th dragon” if his Mom is a certain character)

Well... I don't know if they're still normal humans. They kill dragons like crazy, get hit by powerful magic attacks and more. In Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn, Ike even goes as far as to kill even greater things like a goddess and stuff. Fire Emblem's lords deffinatly aren't normal humans, especially Ike.

That is another thing I disagree with PowerBomb with…ZSS never used the screw attack or any of that other stuff…Metroid 1 where you can play as suitless Samus is NOT canon!

Alright, could be true...

She isn’t going to just win with a stunner gun alone…she is also above normal humans by far physically and is well trained…and again…I could see the match going either way…that is what “a tie” is…

No not on my book. There are too many match ups being closed or decided by easy facts already, thus so should this one.

Well…for one thing…you should look at the things past and my comment on how the weapons use the user more than the user uses them themselves…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKEMwo-d4UM

Eliwood clearly makes a comment on “how the sword itself” guided him to kill said “ice dragon”

I know that cutscene but I've explained that above. It'll still take skill to weild those weapons.

Right…she is trained in close range combat situations as well you know…she was raised to be the “ultimate warrior” in case you forgot that…which is partly why being in her situation that she was in M:ZM wasn’t fatal like it would be to pretty much anyone else…ever see Rambo? I’m pretty sure I could compare that to Zamus’ situation where you actually use her if I wanted to…

Then compare Roy or other Fire Emblem characters to the guys of 300.

Maybe you haven’t noticed…but I never said Roy’s weapon was weak…and again…how is that legendary dragon killing fire sword going to be “super effective” on Samus?

Because it kills more than just dragons?

So…how does she have a weakness to a fire sword because of her being that?

Because it's a fricking fire sword. Your again placing one cannon above the other.

Are you trying to tell me Roy would beat this guy:

I don't know, and I don't care.

 

[PowerBomb]

How would Suitless Samus win this? She has little/no protection from attacks and takes a lot of damage from each hit. She can have a ****load of HP, but it doesn't really help when you have no reliable attacks. Besides, like the paralyzer is going to help against Roy. Samus might be able to evade attacks for a bit, but she really has no way to win.

Roy wins thissssss

 

[_clinton]

Yes, but its still easy to make out who's stronger than who out of that because of the character's abilities, equipment, ect.

How can you make out who is stronger from looking at character abilities and such when they all have the same basic idea for the most part?
Plus it’s the same with equipment…Samus isn’t the only one packing a suit of legendary stuff around made by something that is super powerful…

For example, we could all agree Samus beats Kirby right?

Well…I don’t…but that is another debate

Because Mario's fat.

He is? Wario looks fatter than him…to the point of actually being the term…

Yeah, that's in FE7 and only in that cutscene.

>_>
A cutscene is = to canon
A cutscene is telling the STORY of the game…

In game the weapons work pretty much the same as regular ones, except with an added animation or music.. >_>

In game =/= full out canon 100% of the time…please figure out what this link means and why I keep posting it already:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GameplayAndStorySegregation

Do you really think Mario takes touch damage just from “bumping” into a goomba or that food “heals” you from being “shot in the head" like it does in a game?

And I'm pretty sure you have to be skilled with said weapon anyway to weild it, which again... is explained in game.

Yes…please forget about the fact with dealing with “Prf” type weapons and how they chose their master regardless of skill…of course…I like how you ignore the fact that the FE games only have like a few characters at best that are “main ones” and how they only force you to use those “main ones” and then having those main ones have access to a special weapon just for them while the others are so called S rank…but wait…the fact that there is only 1-3 main characters but 8+ legendary weapons like the one the main is using never crosses your mind that this is how the game works in the 1st place…as in giving you the player…the choice of using who you like for the most part by doing this?

Just because EarthBound and Mother 3 don't make much sence in game doesn't mean other games don't...

How does the Mother series not make sense…please tell me why you think it doesn’t?

You have a better way of doing that? You wouldn't agree for example that a OHKO move in one game, would have a similair effect on a character from another?

So…why are those moves OHKOs in the 1st place? BTW…I'm sure most of them fall into these categories:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UselessUsefulSpell
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SuperStar
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SmartBomb

(I really have to question how you guys can say Samus' armor is so powerful when in Metroid Prime Hunters...even with that armor...she still dies to the same OHKO beam somehow that you guys have been saying will allow her to win vs. everyone...but for the story mode...do you really think it still OHKOs?)

I don't understand.

Comparing Mewtwo to things in his canon makes me question why people think he is so powerful in the 1st place when he at best would lose to or tie with other legendaries that aren’t Arcues’ level…or better yet I should just ask…do you think Mewtwo is equal to his series gods?

Plus to explain Ness better…Ness is Giygas’ counterpart in case you don’t get that for EB’s story…sort of like how Claus was to Lucas in regards to their power…only without the “real” biological relationship

It doesn't makes the weapons less powerful, and I don't know **** about medival weapons so I'll still be agreeing with game mechanics here.

You don’t have to know about medieval weapons to get my point…which is that the game mechanics aren’t 100% accurate…do you really think Iron is more durable than steel like the FE universe is saying it is with the games?

Like I said before, try playing Fire Emblem a few grades harder. You'll be HAPPY when you slaughter Wyvern Lords like crazy with one character only.

It doesn’t really matter if I play the games with one character only…the bloody story itself for the games states that it was a team effort…

No, it's mostly because your over exaggerating.
Time and space control anyone?

How am I over exaggerating…the game says it…not me…

I mean no offence but any game cannon can be over exaggerated, you could argue Mario would beat anyone because of the game scripts and stuff.

Ah no…Mario’s star power is only 1/7th of a full universal power (and even then…we still have no proof that the 7 star children are equals for said power)…it may be powerful…but it is hardly an absolute power like some other characters are dealing with/have…

I disagree.

How come? What makes you think that someone who is packing a “sword/item” with a universal power is going to beat someone who is naturally packing a said universal power in “him/herself?” All you have to do is get the 1st person away from the “sword/item” in the 1st place somehow and you win if you are in the 2nd person’s situation for the most part…

In some chapters in Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones you have to protect NPC characters from getting killed by monsters. Their weak *** stats again make sence there.

Are you saying they don’t make sense elsewhere?

ZSS deffinatly would be more agile than Roy. But I'm saying Roy is packing more strenght and stamina here, plus a more dangerous weapon leading me to think that you know... He'll win this?

How is he packing more strength and stamina than the fighter that has beat humans at their potential limit in everything when she wasn’t even 18 yet…

Zero Suit Samus is in a rediculous disadvantage in her Zero Suit state.

Yeah…because she was in a ridiculous disadvantaged situation...she was dealing with a bloody army of well armed and well trained troops by herself in a position where they were aware of her presence and it just was a matter of hunting her down…how is a 1v1 fight with a guy like that situation? (as in...you are only viewing her as weak like that because of the game play issues)

Of course...you guys don't seem to get that Samus was able to out smart them despite such overwhelming odds vs. her because of her Mary Sue traits and ended up being put back into the + situation with her god mode suit...

No, but the weapon still kills enemies MUCH better armoured than ZSS. King Zephiel for example. Your saying Zero Suit Samus is better able to take hits from Roy's sword than him?

Well…I guess it’s hard to say that full plate armor is weaker than a futuristic rubber like suit that fits to the wearers frame perfectly…oh well…I guess I can give the defense stat to the FE games for this because of armor...

Besides, Roy has stuff to heal himself with as Elixers, ZSS has nothing.

Great…you seem to be comparing one game type to another again w/o getting the fact that pretty much the only way to restore health in said metroid games is usually quite limited for game play reasons >_>

Mario beats Roy without doubt. But disarming Roy likely isn't as easy as you make it sound.

No…I’m pretty sure if he was hit by a taser…he’d drop the sword as he falls to the ground…

Dunno about that really. Don't care much about it either.

Oh nice…ignore the scripted parts of the FE canon that stat the people are just normal people with very good weapons…just great…

They kill dragons like crazy, get hit by powerful magic attacks and more.

1st off…they are killing dragons because of their equipment…and most of them hardly take magic attacks super well...it depends on how linked they are to magic in the 1st place according to the games...

Fire Emblem's lords deffinatly aren't normal humans, especially Ike.

Yes…because Ike does it all by himself…he didn’t have any help at all from the goddess of chaos huh after the goddess of order turned the world to stone?

No not on my book. There are too many match ups being closed or decided by easy facts already, thus so should this one.

You have a 1v1 match with a super human packing a futuristic stun gun vs. a normal human who’s only redeeming point is that he is packing a magic sword of fire that is the alpha dog of said legendary weapons for his game…

I know that cutscene but I've explained that above. It'll still take skill to weild those weapons.

Not according to that cutscene…the weapons seem to do more of the work if you ask me…they just need someone to use them…it’s sort of like this:
http://www.onemanga.com/Jojo's_Bizarre_Adventure/193/01/

Only…w/o the evil part if you ask my personal opinion on it ^_^

Then compare Roy or other Fire Emblem characters to the guys of 300.

How is Roy’s situation like 300?

Because it kills more than just dragons?

Because it is still a ****ing sword…I didn’t say the only thing it could kill was dragons…what I’m asking is…does it affect more than just them with extra damage?

I’m just asking how a fire sword is going to be super effective vs. Samus when she appears to be able to take to a certain point being shot with plasma based beams still even in ZM and keep on moving

I don't know, and I don't care.

Not according to this:

Still disagreeing.

I think you should have actually looked at who I was responding to (#9997) for that part of the post before you said “still disagreeing”…but whatever

How would Suitless Samus win this? She has little/no protection from attacks and takes a lot of damage from each hit. She can have a ****load of HP, but it doesn't really help when you have no reliable attacks. Besides, like the paralyzer is going to help against Roy. Samus might be able to evade attacks for a bit, but she really has no way to win.

Oh I’m sorry if you think getting shot with plasma and taking damage from it is a sign of weakness…oh and I’m not saying she would win this…I’m saying it could go either way as in a tie…and what makes you think Roy is going to take a shot from a taser?

 

[Kei_Takaro]

Doesn't it also mean that it is Fantasy Strength vs Normal human strength with technological enhancements?

So there probably is no winner IMO since it's like saying a legendary samurai versus a guy with a huge mech.

 

[Samochan]

Samus may be super athlete, but she doesn't have super strenght. Ever heard of marathon runners being weight lifters? This is proven in 2 occasions, on mzm she needs to get power grip before she can pull herself on her suit up with one hand and on fusion she was boosted with metroid dna and lighter, organic suit. If she lacks the actual raw strenght to do this, I doubt she could bypass Roy's sword, long range and armor easily with just stun gun and hand-to-hand (which is speculation at best, from her time with chozo and federation police force, but never shown ingame till Other M and those with her suit). Besides the stun gun is very feeble and it'll only stun whatever it hits, it won't do any lasting harm to roy either. Pirates wear exoskeletons and Roy wears armor, so why would a laser stun gun randomly bypass Roy's defences when it does nothing to Pirates? It's not an electric taser lol. Roy has killed dragons with that sword, there's no way samus can stand up to it without her suit, she's no dragon nor has the defences of such. >_>

Samus herself stated going to fortress full of pirates was profoundly desperate, but she just didn't have any other option atm. It's not that she could actually go there and win lol, she could only run from pirates because she could do zero damage to them. How could she suddenly be able to damage Roy if she couldn't damage space pirates? And while samus lacks items, Roy certainly doen't and Roy is free to use his items what he can carry with him. Certainly not prohitibited and it gives him another advantage against Samus. Then Roy's stats compared to humans in his game give away he's much more than your average human. He's a fantasy swordsman character capable of massive feats, like slaying dragons normal humans couldn't even touch lol. Ridley is the equivalent of a dragon, cept dragons can be more massive than Ridley is.

I'm a metroid fan, but it's time to get realistic here and accept that samus may indeed lose, albeit without her suit. Never liked zss too much anyway lol.

 

[PowerBomb]

Oh I’m sorry if you think getting shot with plasma and taking damage from it is a sign of weakness…oh and I’m not saying she would win this…I’m saying it could go either way as in a tie…and what makes you think Roy is going to take a shot from a taser?

What makes you think Samus is going to actually hit Roy with the laser?

 

[Kei_Takaro]

lol here's true reality:
1 kick = great pain leaving the person stunned for 20 seconds
1 jab = incremendous pain leaving the person groaning on the floor for half an hour
1 slash with a sword = dead with the body split in half
1 lazer beam = dead with a big hole somewhere in the body
1 fire based sword = 3rd degree burns in hands
1 agility suit = bound to be ***** by every man in existence

meh i get bored lol XD

EDIT:
Do you remember Samus regaining her Power Suit in SSE?
What if she didn't get it then Ridley grabs her and grinds her body and face into the steel walls? That woulda been **** bloody dude

 

[Diddy Kong]

What makes you think Samus is going to actually hit Roy with the laser?

Exactly. The way I see it, both characters attack. Roy get stunned, Zamus gets burned to death.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

okay, that settles it.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Current Match-Up:
THE PUFF BALL Vs. THE KING OF DREAMLAND

Jigglypuff Vs. Dedede

Vs.

Loser's Round 5, Match 9.

Overall Results

Wins +5:



Wins +4:

, , ,

Wins +3:



Wins +2:

, , , , , ,

Wins +1:

, :mewtwo:, , ,

Neutral:

, ,,

Loss -1:

, , ichu:, , , , ,

Loss -2:

, , ,

Loss -3:

,

Loss -4:

, ,

Loss -5:



Loss -6:

 

[the king of murder]

Zero Suit Samus Vs. Roy -1 YOSHI. +1 Roy.

Page(s) This Was Discussed: 666 - 668

Summarized Reason: YOSHI is pretty much hopeless in this match-up.

Raizen you have to fix this.

Current match up: D3 wins. Jiggs can learn some strong attacks. But that is no use for her since Jiggs states are so weak. D3 has the upper hand here (missiles,fire,strong hammer ect.).

 

[_clinton]

What makes you think Samus is going to actually hit Roy with the laser?

Because Samus is a super athlete for starters even without the suit...and is an expert marksman on top of that...how is a well trained in chances are everything (she is suppose to be the ultimate warrior remember?) super human going to miss a human who may be trained...but isn't going to be doing anything "super" at least compared to Samus?

Also...What makes you think Roy is going to hit Samus with his fire sword when Samus w/o her suit has been shown to easily leap higher/run faster than any human and for longer periods of time on top of that?
(As in...has a dodge rate that chances are is working with way better than a "30" and "30" for a speed and luck stats ^_^)

Chances are though...they have about the same range to work with when considering their weapons if anything...

I like how you people think Samus is going to die in one hit as well...she gets away with by far more things even w/o the suit that would kill a normal human...at least according to her history

 

[Diddy Kong]

Because Samus is a super athlete for starters even without the suit...and is an expert marksman on top of that...how is a well trained in chances are everything (she is suppose to be the ultimate warrior remember?) super human going to miss a human who may be trained...but isn't going to be doing anything "super" at least compared to Samus?

First of all, sorry in advance for ignoring your other post. I'm not really into replying to walls all the time.

Roy beats Zero Suit Samus because he too is an extremely strong, experienced warrior, but with better equipment, abilities, strenght and durability.

Also...What makes you think Roy is going to hit Samus with his fire sword when Samus w/o her suit has been shown to easily leap higher/run faster than any human and for longer periods of time on top of that?

How come your still disagreeing with Lucas losing to Samus then is what pops into my mind everytime I see you defending Samus..?

Roy will hit Samus because his sword is ranged, and if Samus where to jump he'd have enough time "aiming" his next blow.

(As in...has a dodge rate that chances are is working with way better than a "30" and "30" for a speed and luck stats ^_^)

Maybe, maybe not. Zero Suit Samus does have the agility to dodge quite a few hits maybe but she isn't beating Roy. Who knows how long it'll take Roy to beat her, the only thing that mathers is that eventually... Roy will win.

Chances are though...they have about the same range to work with when considering their weapons if anything...

Yeah, but if they fire at the same time... Roy only gets stunned, while Samus gets hurt badly.

I like how you people think Samus is going to die in one hit as well...she gets away with by far more things even w/o the suit that would kill a normal human...at least according to her history

Roy can kill Zephiel and his end boss in 2 hits. I'm saying Samus will die to in 2 hits. With suit however, it's another story.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Raizen you have to fix this.

Current match up: D3 wins. Jiggs can learn some strong attacks. But that is no use for her since Jiggs states are so weak. D3 has the upper hand here (missiles,fire,strong hammer ect.).

Oh, sorry. I've been editing too much that I've forgot the difference between Yoshi and Zamus.

 

[PowerBomb]

I lol'd.

Jiggs and D3 are roughly the same size, right? Or something like that. Jiggs can learn beams and stuff, but they wouldn't be ZOMG POWERFUL. I think D3 has got this due to crap defenses for Jiggs.

 

[Kei_Takaro]

Jiggs would still have a chance against D3

Jiggs has alot more learnable attacks, mimic would probably be the best attack. Also wouldn't sing be more effective on a lazy king?

 

[PowerBomb]

Sing isn't accurate. Mimic gives such a small amount of PP it isn't worth it. Thunder Wave can help, maybe even Toxic if it lands. Sub/Protect/Toxic/Rest Chesto Berry can help, maybe.

 

[Samochan]

Toxicstalling would be pretty broken keke. Jiggs may have lousy defences, but jiggs has loads of hp at the very least and very good movepool jiggs could abuse for good effect. DDD doesn't have anything to counter toxic eiher oh and doesn't jiggs learn counter? The more hp ddd takes away (imo, jiggs doesn't get ohkoed), the more damage jiggs deals back. And if jiggs gets liek 1/2 - 2/3 taken away, it's gonna deal an ohko back at ddd.

 

[Monkey Wrench]

Jiggly may have high HP, but it's sloooooow and has pitiful defenses:
HP: 115
Atk: 45
Def: 20
SpA: 45
SpD: 25
Spe: 20

I'm pretty sure its not too hard to one-shot Jiggly. A lvl 100 Rattata using Bite on a lvl 100 Jigglypuff will do around 68 damage. If a rat can take over 1/2 of Jiggly's HP by biting it, then Dedede can surely land an OHKO. And what exactly is Toxic? Does Jiggly bite Dedede and inject poison? Does it breathe poisonous gases? If Jiggly has to get close to Dedede, it's not landing Toxic. And since counter only works for physical attacks, Dedede can still use his flamethrower and missles without fear of getting countered.

Edit: Whoops, used the base HP instead of the max. lvl 100 Jigglypuff has 434 HP, so 68 is only 15% of that. The point still stands: Dedede is quite capable of landing a fatal hit, or at least avoiding the counter with his ranged attacks.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Jiggly may have high HP, but it's sloooooow and has pitiful defenses:
HP: 115
Atk: 45
Def: 20
SpA: 45
SpD: 25
Spe: 20

I'm pretty sure its not too hard to one-shot Jiggly. A lvl 100 Rattata using Bite on a lvl 100 Jigglypuff will do around 68 damage. If a rat can take over 1/2 of Jiggly's HP by biting it, then Dedede can surely land an OHKO. And what exactly is Toxic? Does Jiggly bite Dedede and inject poison? Does it breathe poisonous gases? If Jiggly has to get close to Dedede, it's not landing Toxic. And since counter only works for physical attacks, Dedede can still use his flamethrower and missles without fear of getting countered.

Why would DeDeDe OHKO Jigglypuff? He doesn't kill Kirby in one hit either in any Kirby game.

Toxic is a ranged sort of bubble attack which badly poisions the one getting hit by it. Each "turn" the poision does more damage.

I say Jigglypuff has this one because of Counter.

 

[PowerBomb]

Base 20 defenses are terrible relative to other Pokemon. Jigglypuff might have a massive base HP, but it doesn't do it any favors to have Speed and Defense stats on the lower end of the spectrum. Toxic isn't completely accurate, is limited by range, and has low PP (although it only needs to hit once).

Kirby's defenses =/= Jigglypuff's defenses, by the way.

 

[_clinton]

I'll reply to some other stuff later...but for now

I personally think D3 would win...but I do have one issue...

Jiggly may have high HP, but it's sloooooow and has pitiful defenses:
HP: 115
Atk: 45
Def: 20
SpA: 45
SpD: 25
Spe: 20

...again...that is just one source...but whatever

http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/gbadvance/file/929408/40397

Personally...I want to know what is stopping D3 from falling in love with JP as he hits it (cute charm ^_^)

Toxic is a ranged sort of bubble attack which badly poisions the one getting hit by it. Each "turn" the poision does more damage.

Yeah Toxic isn't a "sort of bubble attack" it is something else...that is a bit more sick...

Anyone else not get the fact that pretty much any pokemon can learn this is saying something dirty...and its animation deals with a pokemon throwing "something" at a foe...said something that is vile looking...that causes them to be "poisoned"

On another completely different note...anyone ever get brown rage in Okami?

 

[PowerBomb]

Cute Charm only works if D3 himself physically touches Jigglypuff. Since he's hitting her with his hammer and rockets(?), Cute Charm is quite useless.

And PMD limits Jigglypuff's range. Who cares if Toxic is sick? Not really relevant. Unless D3 pukes in horror at whatever Jiggs is doing, but I doubt that.

 

[_clinton]

Cute Charm only works if D3 himself physically touches Jigglypuff. Since he's hitting her with his hammer and rockets(?), Cute Charm is quite useless.

Not true...plenty of the moves in the Pokemon universe set off cute charm/other moves that require contact that happen just because of the pokemon "holding the weapon"

Of course there are plenty of moves where you have to ask...how are they not counted as direct attacks as well (beat up for starters)

Of course...I wonder why JP just wouldn't lower his offense while raising defense to the point where he can't hurt her? I'm pretty sure the only stuff D3 has are physical related with using that hammer

And PMD limits Jigglypuff's range. Who cares if Toxic is sick? Not really relevant. Unless D3 pukes in horror at whatever Jiggs is doing, but I doubt that.

So...you're telling me you are immune to someone throwing **** on you and being unable to go and clean it off of you after it happens?

First of all, sorry in advance for ignoring your other post. I'm not really into replying to walls all the time.

Well…guess what this post is going to BE? ^_^

Roy beats Zero Suit Samus because he too is an extremely strong, experienced warrior, but with better equipment, abilities, strenght and durability.

Again…how does Roy have better strength and durability by himself compared to the super human Samus? BTW Samus w/o her suit has punched through metal if you look at her canon history…

How come your still disagreeing with Lucas losing to Samus then is what pops into my mind everytime I see you defending Samus..?

Excuse me…but part of the reason I think Samus loses to Lucas is because she doesn’t have any powers that warp reality like on the level Lucas does just by thinking about it…as in I have yet to see Samus take her gun arm and blow up a planet using her natural ability itself or rebuild a planet after ending it just like Lucas can…the most impressive as far as level I see with Samus is things like the morph ball…

Granted she has an impressive track record of 3.5 planets going bye bye when she visits them (which is funny because the games always assume nothing bad will happen with those things going bye bye >_>)

^_^

…but all that tells me is that Samus’ life sucks…because death seems to follow her wherever she goes…which sucks…because you can’t tell me something like that doesn’t suck…because it does suck…oh how it sucks

^_^

Because apparently people have to have a tragic past before you can like them when it comes to things like this (which might be why I like Ness a lot compared to other characters in this thread)

BTW…Roy is the only lord character in the FE games so far that still has a father by the end of his game…isn’t that funny?

^_^

Roy will hit Samus because his sword is ranged, and if Samus where to jump he'd have enough time "aiming" his next blow.

How? She moves faster than any normal human can…chances are he isn’t going to hit her easily…going by his stats for the game…he will still have some issues hitting a character within normal human speed stats…what does that say about Samus?

Who knows how long it'll take Roy to beat her, the only thing that mathers is that eventually... Roy will win.

I like how you forget about the fact that if Samus hits him with her taser…he is going to lose his sword and fall to the ground…you know…because that is what happens if you get hit by a taser (plus sadly the things can be lethal sometimes under certain circumstances)

If he is one the ground…and can’t move…what’s stopping Samus from just tying him up with some rope or something?

Having a sword that is made to kills dragons and the FE gods (fun fact…the sword is a god killing tool in case you needed another reminder) isn’t going to help much if there is a high chance Roy could be disarmed of it in a fight…which is what can easily happen if Roy gets hit by Samus’ emergency taser

Yeah, but if they fire at the same time... Roy only gets stunned, while Samus gets hurt badly.

Except Samus has a slower target to work with when it comes to landing the hit because she happens to have super human traits…and is for sure a trained marksman…oh…and light guns > medieval swords, bows, ect. when it comes to landing a hit as well…

If this is hard to get…than let me explain it in FE terms…

^_^

Samus’ “hit % and dodge %” are a lot higher than Roy’s for this situation…because she is working with super human stats herself…and even normal human dodge rates with things like swordmasters (read…trained…but still within normal) for example are enough to give Roy some minor issues with hitting using the SoS

As in certain ones working for Roy himself that you can get in game could have for sure make him have around a 70% chance w/o land % being factored in for sure…granted Roy would still win in the end with SMs…because SMs wouldn’t do any damage to Roy in return because of the SoS’s protection and other things like that…to bad SMs don’t have any way to potentially disarm Roy like staff using magic users could…like putting him to sleep...

Going on with the FE stats comparison and how they could link…are you going to try and tell me Samus has bad luck when every planet she crash lands on has Chozo upgrades waiting for her to find in her games? To counter this though somewhat…Samus’ life does suck for what she deals with on a certain level to a point like I said earlier (so…I guess maybe a 4/5 luck stat >_>)

^_^

Roy can kill Zephiel and his end boss in 2 hits. I'm saying Samus will die to in 2 hits. With suit however, it's another story.

Right…another “normal human” gone bat**** crazy because he had such a wonderful daddy and an end boss that has a weakness to the blade in the 1st place…
>_>

Samus has already been shown to live from things that are potentially fatal to humans w/o any real effort…I’m pretty sure it will take more than 2 hits to do her in…

Oh…and on average it takes a bit more than 2 hits as well to kill Zephiel with the sword unless you get lucky and land a critical hit (7% chance with Roy at your best odds w/o good supports…landing the hit isn’t in your favor ok) because at best…Roy can only do 21 damage do him per swing (so he needs 4 hits not factoring in his throne bonus’)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOQY93aJyU4
This video has a Roy with pretty much expected 20/20 stats (although the RNG was nicer to this Roy…because he clearly happens to be only level 12)

:D

Granted…I don’t see Samus w/o her suit herself getting even close to “20 defense” (because the classes that do have 20+ defense…have good strong armor…and I really only see Samus’ suit thing being around the level of a swordmaster or so again…as in…made for easy movement and not much more…but I do feel it is stronger than their type)

:D

Well…that’s all for now

 

[PowerBomb]

Not true...plenty of the moves in the Pokemon universe set off cute charm/other moves that require contact that happen just because of the pokemon "holding the weapon"

Not at all. The move has to have the Pokemon make physical contact (i.e. Tackle) with the Cute Charm user for it to activate. Unless you can provide me a video of a Bonemerang or an Earthquake causing Cute Charm to activate, I'm going by what I said.

Of course there are plenty of moves where you have to ask...how are they not counted as direct attacks as well (beat up for starters)

Beat Up IS counted as a physical attack, it's just that other Pokemon attack after the main Pokemon does, and since they're returned to their Poke Balls, Cute Charm doesn't have a chance to work right. And the main Pokemon returns to its Poke Ball as well, I think.

Of course...I wonder why JP just wouldn't lower his offense while raising defense to the point where he can't hurt her? I'm pretty sure the only stuff D3 has are physical related with using that hammer

Sure, why not. Charm and Defense Curl, go.

So...you're telling me you are immune to someone throwing **** on you and being unable to go and clean it off of you after it happens?

I'm sorry, is there psychological warfare in this match up? I'm not saying D3 is immune to Toxic, I'm saying D3's not going to puke if he's hit. Besides, you have no proof that he will puke and become o_o'd if he does get hit by Toxic.

 

[Samochan]

Whatever toxic is doesn't matter, what matters is that it badly poisones the opponent unless they have immunity, like poison or steel type, another status ailment already in place, sub/protect etc. or some ability that prevents poisoning, in this case immunity (liek snorre). DDD has nothing to stop getting poisoned, he's not even fast enough to avoid it unless he starts jumping around.

I don't think toxic is pokemon puking either, in japanese toxic is called "excessive poison" and the move summary is "A move that leaves the target badly poisoned. Its poison damage worsens every turn. " Some animals in real world for example do have the ability to shoot highly poisonous substances at us or produce it from glands in their skin. I'm not saying that jiggs somehow now has poison glands in there somewhere, as the case with toxic and every pokemon learning is just another game mechanic and is nothing big with rattatas shooting shunterbolts at you. But it's definitely poison the pokemon shoots at the opponent, it's even purple to indicate poison.

Imo, with counter, jiggs bad defence actually helps in this matchup. I doubt DDD can ohko jiggs with that amount of hp, but with lousy defences, a hit from that hammer should do some noticeable damage. And when it does and when jiggs loses lots of hp (the damage counter does is relative to hp), jiggs can counter all that damage back x1,5 =)

And lol charm and defence curl. xP Charm would be awesome tho, -2 in attack stat is cripling. Then rest and loool gen2 rollout + curl combo gooo!

But imo, wish/fake tears/reflect/good special type move would be a good set fo jiggs. Fake tears is -2 to sp.defence, so that alone makes jiggs do some nasty damage with special attacks. Or toxic/protect/rest/charm to just stall him out.

And in whatever secnario, this matchup is at the very worst tie for jiggs, cause our little jiggles knows perish song lol and can outstall DDD for those 3 turns. But I'm fairly sure jiggs can take out DDD with various set of moves, like counter, toxicstall, sp.defence lowing...

 

[the king of murder]

Counter only works on physical attacks. Masked D3 has flamethrower, electric attacks and missiles. Jiggs doesnt learn Mirror Coat so she cant counter everything. Toxic has an accuracy of 85% and that is actually bad. D3 can float and avoid those attacks. If Jiggs somehow manages to poison him she will get hit eventually since his attacks has good range. D3 can 2HKO her. Protect fails after every succeed. Jiggs is also very slow so she wont be able to avoid those attacks easily.

 

[Monkey Wrench]

Let's do some math:

A flamethrower/thunderbolt from something of decent SpAtk, say Prinplup(disregarding that he can't learn it), does 145 or so damage to Jiggly, a 3HKO.

Jiggly using hyper voice on D3...Dedede does have an HP number(440, it's in a gamefaqs guide for KSSU, if guides are to be trusted), but no defense stats. If we use Prinplup again(comparable in size to D3), hyper voice is a 2HKO after 3 fake tears, and a 6HKO without any fake tears.

The best set for Jigglypuff would be wish/fake tears/light screen/hyper voice. Jiggly could very well win this if it can stay away from D3's attacks.

 

[IsmaR]

@ Cute Charm - Jigglypuff could be a male. 25% chance, but still. And even then, Dedede still has a chance to hit her every other turn.

Besides being a competitive gamer's Puff, Jiggs has access to a crapload of strong attacks(Hyper Voice, Thunder, Blizzard, Psychic, etc.), Knock Off(if it'd work on his Hammer), Gravity(make him immobile), and several status-inducing effects. I love Dee, but I think Jiggs has this.

 

[Samochan]

Wish/light screen/counter/seismic toss

=)

440 with no defence stats is even worse than what jiggs has lol. If jiggs does hyper voice with max ev 252 on sp.attack + stab against another jiggs with 434 hp points and 77 sp.defence, it deals 60-71% damage (used another jiggs in comparison due to low def and high hp). Without those defences ddd is as good as dead lol, double the defences of that doubles jiggs defensive capabilities and damage becomes that of 29-34%. Just equip jiggs with choice scarf, adamant nature and double-edge for an ohko lol. And what was ddd's size again? Prinplup is 0,8m tall while jiggs is 0,5m.

Jiggs has way too many good moves to use here. And DDD cannot with with perish song.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Let's do some math:

A flamethrower/thunderbolt from something of decent SpAtk, say Prinplup(disregarding that he can't learn it), does 145 or so damage to Jiggly, a 3HKO.

Jiggly using hyper voice on D3...Dedede does have an HP number(440, it's in a gamefaqs guide for KSSU, if guides are to be trusted), but no defense stats. If we use Prinplup again(comparable in size to D3), hyper voice is a 2HKO after 3 fake tears, and a 6HKO without any fake tears.

The best set for Jigglypuff would be wish/fake tears/light screen/hyper voice. Jiggly could very well win this if it can stay away from D3's attacks.

440 "Kirby HP" isn't 440 "Pokemon HP"...

 

[PowerBomb]

Counter returns the damage done by physical attacks (whether they touch or not doesn't matter as long as they're labeled physical) and doubles it. So if Jiggs gets hit by a physical attack and loses 200 HP, she can counter it back for 400 hit points worth of damage. Deadly, no?

Gravity doesn't make Pokemon immobile, but it decreases their evasiveness and makes it so that you cannot Fly/Levitate/etc. It also affects both the user and the foe, mind you.

Perish Song = Draw. So, does D3 have earplugs?

EDIT: And in order to effectively compare HP, must we take two similar scenarios and compare the two in order to predict how much damage each attack will do?

 

[Monkey Wrench]

"440 with no defence stat"
You misunderstood me, I meant to say the game gives no defense stat for him, not that he has zero defense. If this was the case, Jiggly could OHKO everything outside of an RPG game...

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ This current debate shouldn't even be a debate. King Dedede can just eat Jigglypuff. >.> ☆

 

[§leepy God]

♪ I don't think the fight would be that one sided. xD †

♪ But I agree that Jigglypuff would lose to D3. †

 

[Samochan]

A the very worst, it's a draw for jiggs because ding, perish song and stall. =) DDD has nothing to counter that.

But jiggs has a very good arsenal to answer all the stuff DDD can do to jiggs. Knock off would be lol, knocking off his hammer would mean ddd is unable to do any physical attacks and light screen would take care of the rest. Then wish would restore some health and some attack like seismic toss would get 4-5hko (considering knock off damage), regardless of ddd's defence.

 

[justaway12]

Stupid question, but can't Dedede.....cover his ears >_>

Does he even have any?

I don't think knock-off would do anything as it really deosn't do anything to items in battle such as farfetch'd leeks