Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

[missingnomaster]

Hmm, Peach has protection from status effects and OHKOs, right?

A lot of Red's key strategies would involve those...

Maybe pure force would work here, I'm not sure.

 

[justaway12]

Pure force most likely won't because she could defend from all those, first, what are the pokemon and what would the pokemon have?

 

[missingnomaster]

Pure force most likely won't because she could defend from all those, first, what are the pokemon and what would the pokemon have?

That's what we're trying to figure out... What about stuff that would attack below the parasol, like Earthquake and Dig?

How about Embargo?

 

[PowerBomb]

Shadow Force Giratina might help. Unblockable, iirc.

 

[missingnomaster]

It gets past Protect and Detect, but that doesn't mean it would get past the parasol...

 

[PowerBomb]

It gets past Protect and Detect, but that doesn't mean it would get past the parasol...

Well, Shadow Force is an invisible attack, right? It can go behind Peach and attack from there, where the Parasol doesn't protect her.

 

[missingnomaster]

True, though I don't know if it would be easy to land more than once... Plus, there's the whole "hits on the 2nd turn thing".

Maybe if combined with another pokemon that could Embargo?

 

[justaway12]

Her Parasol isn't really an item, it's more like a weapon.

 

[missingnomaster]

I meant Embargo to stop the usage of Stop Watch.

Really, I think there's too many things Red needs to get done to be safe from Peach, and not enough time to do them...

 

[REL38]

I've always wondered about this:

If an item is currently at use, such as StopWatch, would Embargo cancel out the item at use?

Ex.
Peach uses StopWatch which has start-up lag for it to fully take effect. If Embargo is literally used a second after Peach uses StopWatch, would the StopWatch still go through with its effect?
It was used before Embargo so wouldn't the current, at use, item be exempt from the effect of Embargo?

 

[PowerBomb]

I've always wondered about this:

If an item is currently at use, such as StopWatch, would Embargo cancel out the item at use?

Ex.
Peach uses StopWatch which has start-up lag for it to fully take effect. If Embargo is literally used a second after Peach uses StopWatch, would the StopWatch still go through with its effect?
It was used before Embargo so wouldn't the current, at use, item be exempt from the effect of Embargo?

Wouldn't time be frozen so Embargo wouldn't be successfully carried out anyway?

 

[REL38]

Wouldn't time be frozen so Embargo wouldn't be successfully carried out anyway?

So doesn't Peach win then?

Time is frozen so Peach directly hits PT.
She can just use a Fire Bomb (SMRPG) and he's dead.

 

[Samochan]

Embargo stops all items from working for the duration of time, even if the items in question are already being used, such as choice items. Though why it wouldn't work against parasol is beyond me, cause parasol is an item even if it's a weapon, many held items in pokemon resemble a weapon such a grip claw but are rendered useless.

Stop watch also has that 4 seconds activation time, so if embargo was used, it wouldn't work properly.

Peach can be hurt from spikes and things that hit directly from below her, so ground moves like EQ and Dig that hit form below ground should work against her. Then the pokemon could lay around spikes, so whenever she moved along the ground she would get hurt. I believe forretress would be quite an ideal pokemon for this, he could EQ and lay spikes against peach, use protect and otherwise wall, then when time is right explode on her face when she's forced to go airborne due to spikes and EQ. :3 Forry learns magnet rise on level up too, so he can float somewhat.

Some other pokemon could go around using safeguard and embargo, so Red and pokes would be protected against status attacks (would that work against stop watch too? the mysterious safeguard creates a field that prevents all status afflictions). Mewtwo with safeguard/embargo/aura sphere/disable would be quite nice (maybe swap disable with something else). Mewtwo would pressure peach to waste more fp, while making her unable to use items or status affliction attacks at the same time, possibly disable her from using something alltogether.

One thing that will beat peach brutally is a no guard machamp. No guard ensures all your hits will strike this particular pokemon and your opponent, but it also makes you incapable of guarding with protect or detect & fly and dig against hits that do not have 100% accuracy, say dynamicpunch with normal accuracy of 50% but practically ensured hit with no guard and against moves like protect/detect and fly/dig, will hit through these moves. From a grounded opponent that can't fly or hit through ground and even brick break failing to go through protect, that's pretty darn good of No Guard, especially if protect and detect described as evasion moves and not barrier like protect suggests. Machamp's attack stat is huge 130 base and dynamicpunch has 100 base power with stab. And if it hits, it confuses the opponent and if embargo is in effect, her items won't help her with preventing status afflictions. Choice scarfed machamp would be pretty fast too, not like he'd need to do anything else besides dynamicpunch here.

And if not no guard breaking through peach's barrier, then brick break should be able to, as it breaks your other type of barriers as in screens.

As PT is able to use multiple pokemon, one pokemon should do feint that lifts the protect effects for the rest of the turn, while the other pokemon attacks when she's defenceless.

 

[PowerBomb]

(No-Guard)
Actually, The less accurate something is, the higher chance it has of hitting through a Protect or Detect. One-hit KO moves still fail.

Fly/Dig still evade it during the evasion turn.

Unless PT uses Embargo first, a Stop Watch is basically GG.

EDIT: Forry has bad HP (in relation to other pokes)

EDIT2: Spikes only hurts stuff if you land on them. Spikes scatters spikes around the opponent.

EDIT3(lawl):

And if not no guard breaking through peach's barrier, then brick break should be able to, as it breaks your other type of barriers as in screens.

As PT is able to use multiple pokemon, one pokemon should do feint that lifts the protect effects for the rest of the turn, while the other pokemon attacks when she's defenceless.

Parasol is not Protect
Parasol is not Light Screen nor Reflect
Therefore, Feint and Brick Break have no effect on it

 

[justaway12]

If Peach uses Stop Watch, how they stop the effect when it's already being used? It stops people from using items, but she is already using it, besides, how long would it take for Red to unleash his pokemon, get them out and use a command?

Alternitavly, she uses sleepy sheep to send Red to sleep.

Or what REL said, it takes a second to get out fire bomb and it effects everyone, PKMN trainer wouldn't have time to order the command.

If Fortress explodes she would still be alive, and could heal herself, I think she could defend in the air aswell, but if she couldn't, she would just use Lazy shell, since it's the best defence their is.

EDIT: Besides, her magic attacks don't require her to move, silly billy.

 

[Samochan]

(No-Guard)
Actually, The less accurate something is, the higher chance it has of hitting through a Protect or Detect. One-hit KO moves still fail.

Fly/Dig still evade it during the evasion turn.

Unless PT uses Embargo first, a Stop Watch is basically GG.

EDIT: Forry has bad HP (in relation to other pokes)

EDIT2: Spikes only hurts stuff if you land on them. Spikes scatters spikes around the opponent.

As I said, which is why dynamicpunch is so good.

And no, they won't evade an attack with no guard ability. =)

Mewtwo should get the embargo before peach can with that 130 base speed lol.

Nothing stops PT from flying away far enough so peach's normal attacks wouldn't get him though.

Forry might have shabby hp, but it has awesome defences on both sides, plus steel typing resists many attacks. Downside is he won't like fire, which peach has, so he'd need to stick to the sidelines (eq has lotsa range though and machamp resists it, then he could hurl some spikes there and there). Ofc, other eq/spike/exploder might be good here too. Not forgetting toxic spikes are an option too, cause if peach can't use her status preventing items, toxic spikes would wear her down (unless she had some healing magic I've forgotten).

Spikes can be scattered in 3 layers that hurt an opponent switching in, but it doesn't matter if your pokemon is small or not, spikes will hit unless you're a flyer or levitater. Spikes are set up as a trap in your opponent's feet and peach can't even use her parasol when mobile, so this would basically stick her into one position unless she were to abandon her parasol defence and move via jumping/float/parasol. If she still were able to move around within the spikes even though trap is set, she'd need to do so very slowly, as 3 layers of spikes deal 25% damage of one's health.

Parasol is not Protect
Parasol is not Light Screen nor Reflect
Therefore, Feint and Brick Break have no effect on it

So you are saying that because it's a different game and while it works the same as force field or protect would, it won't work cause lawl it's different game. Well this would basically make this whole thread redundant. >_>

I don't see how parasol would be much different from protect or whatever barriers. It's just an umbrella she sticks to the ground which seems unbreakable, but as we know, no guard makes invulnerable things vulnerable. Umbrella is not foolproof as shown, neither is protect. But they somehow still manage to protect against all kinds of attacks because they are broken.

Justaway, items that are already working stop working when you use embargo.

And isn't a fire bomb an item too? <_<

Peach can't defend with the umbrella in the air, umbrella requires her to stick it to the ground and be unmobile (though for some reason she starts bouncing whenever an attack hits her).

Mewtwo is a very fast embargo user, I doubt peach could get up to that speed. not to mention Red can start with one pokemon out at least, as seen on HGSS. Mewtwo also has safeguard, preventing status afflictions.

Wasn't it also mentioned Red could start with more than 1 pokemon out (2)? >_>

 

[PowerBomb]

As I said, which is why dynamicpunch is so good.

And no, they won't evade an attack with no guard ability. =)

Proof please

Mewtwo should get the embargo before peach can with that 130 base speed lol.

Nothing stops PT from flying away far enough so peach's normal attacks wouldn't get him though.

Yes and True

Forry might have shabby hp, but it has awesome defences on both sides, plus steel typing resists many attacks. Downside is he won't like fire, which peach has, so he'd need to stick to the sidelines (eq has lotsa range though and machamp resists it, then he could hurl some spikes there and there). Ofc, other eq/spike/exploder might be good here too. Not forgetting toxic spikes are an option too, cause if peach can't use her status preventing items, toxic spikes would wear her down (unless she had some healing magic I've forgotten).

Forry doesn't have great Sp. Def
T. Spikes, Spikes, and SR do not cause harm during the battle. Only if an opponent is swapped in. Not very useful. Also, SR and stuff are friendly fire OFF.

Spikes can be scattered in 3 layers that hurt an opponent switching in, but it doesn't matter if your pokemon is small or not, spikes will hit unless you're a flyer or levitater. Spikes are set up as a trap in your opponent's feet and peach can't even use her parasol when mobile, so this would basically stick her into one position unless she were to abandon her parasol defence and move via jumping/float/parasol. If she still were able to move around within the spikes even though trap is set, she'd need to do so very slowly, as 3 layers of spikes deal 25% damage of one's health.

Interesting to note that if a Pokemon uses Tackle, Take Down, Extremespeed, or anything like that, they still won't get hurt from T-Spikes or Spikes

You can argue that's a game mechanic, though. The flip-wise, you could argue that Peach's shows stop the spikes from penetrating as they look very flimsy on the screen.

So you are saying that because it's a different game and while it works the same as force field or protect would, it won't work cause lawl it's different game. Well this would basically make this whole thread redundant. >_>

I'm saying that Brick Break and Feint only work towards those moves. Is Parasol a wall of light? No... Is it a wall that allows the user to 'evade all moves'? It's not a wall in the traditional sense, but it does allow Peach to evade damage. Does it fail if used repeatedly? Nope. Since Parasol isn't even really in the genre of Reflect/Light Screen (doesn't weaken damage, instead stops it) and isn't a wall of light, why should Brick Break smash it? Why should Feint poke through it?

I don't see how parasol would be much different from protect or whatever barriers. It's just an umbrella she sticks to the ground which seems unbreakable, but as we know, no guard makes invulnerable things vulnerable.

No, No Guard doesn't make invulnerable things vulnerable. At least, not everything. Parasol is different because it's not a traditional wall and doesn't fail if used in succession.

Mewtwo is a very fast embargo user, I doubt peach could get up to that speed. not to mention Red can start with one pokemon out at least, as seen on HGSS. Mewtwo also has safeguard, preventing status afflictions.

Wasn't it also mentioned Red could start with more than 1 pokemon out (2)? >_>

First part: Mewtwo speed might be fast, but we really have no accurate way to see just how fast the Pokemon are. I know he might very well be faster than Peach, but even if we took the Dex for speed references, everything gets twisted up even more.

Second part: Yes

 

[REL38]

@Samo

So how does one determine how quick a move will come out in real-time if using the Speed stat?

What do you have to compare how quick any of PT's Pokemon will use Embargo?

 

[justaway12]

It is an item, but as I said, Peach could use fire bomb while he is getting his pokemon out and telling them what to do.

And you didn't answer all of my questions, she could use Sleepy Sheep to send PKMN TR to sleep.

And read my edit, just in case you missed it, obviously, I always leave stuff out >.<

 

[Samochan]

Proof please

"All moves used by or against a Pokémon with this ability cannot miss. It also allows Pokémon to be hit during the semi-invulnerable turn of moves such as Fly or Dig. " - Bulbapedia

Baw
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/No_Guard_(ability)

You need to test yourself if you want more proof though. >_>

Forry doesn't have great Sp. Def
T. Spikes, Spikes, and SR do not cause harm during the battle. Only if an opponent is swapped in. Not very useful. Also, SR and stuff are friendly fire OFF.

Sorry, my bad. But still nice defence.

Swapping a pokemon constitutes as body movement, as it would be dumb for the pokes to get hurt everytime they were making a move. Perhaps they do not move around or won't get hurt after they've landed into the trap, who knows. But it would prevent peach from moving properly, that's for sure. We can't ignore that it does indeed lay a trap of spikes at her feet.

@Samo

So how does one determine how quick a move will come out in real-time if using the Speed stat?

What do you have to compare how quick any of PT's Pokemon will use Embargo?

The pokemon with high speed stat moves quicker than your opponent, but embargo itself is also very quick move as seen below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlEA7W_mt7w

It is an item, but as I said, Peach could use fire bomb, while he is getting his pokemon out, and ordering them what to do.

And you didn't answer all of my questions, she could use Sleepy Sheep to send PKMN TR to sleep.

And read my edit, just in case you missed it, obviously, I always leave stuff out >.<

Again, PT can start with at least 1 or more pokemon out (aka doesn't need to toss pokeballs around) as seen on pokemon HGSS.

One pokemon could also be used to protect red from damage or fly him away from peach's range.

Mewtwo also learns safeguard, so status effects wouldn't work (dunno what sleepy sheeps are (no sleepy time?)... but not even attacks that cause statuses can cause statuses when guard is in effect).

Magic attacks won't require her to move.. but consume her flower points which is equivalent to PP, thus mewtwo's pressure would work good here. I believe on double battles, double pressure is possible, so if PT were to use lugia for example to fly around and safeguard & protect when neccesary, it would be good enough defence. Disable from Mewtwo would be also a good way to remove one of her attacks for a short while. Or torment so she couln't use two attacks in a row or taunt so she'd be forced to attack and leave herself open against choice scarfed machamp for example/forry or something explosion which also halves defence, making it 500 base power in fact.

 

[PowerBomb]

"All moves used by or against a Pokémon with this ability cannot miss. It also allows Pokémon to be hit during the semi-invulnerable turn of moves such as Fly or Dig. " - Bulbapedia

Baw
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/No_Guard_(ability)

You need to test yourself if you want more proof though. >_>

Whoops. Gotcha. Use smogon.com though, it's more credible imo

Sorry, my bad. But still nice defence.

Fun-fact: Forry's Physical defensive power is so great that it's used in Ubers :O

Swapping a pokemon constitutes as body movement, as it would be dumb for the pokes to get hurt everytime they were making a move. Perhaps they do not move around or won't get hurt after they've landed into the trap, who knows. But it would prevent peach from moving properly, that's for sure. We can't ignore that it does indeed lay a trap of spikes at her feet.

Who knows indeed? I think she won't get hurt. Pokemon don't while moving around. Since the only time she 'appears' is at the beginning of the battle, where no entry hazards are out, Spikes, T-Spikes, or SR won't do a thing.

The pokemon with high speed stat moves quicker than your opponent, but embargo itself is also very quick move as seen below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlEA7W_mt7w

Embargo has 0 priority. It moves as fast as the Pokemon using it.

(EDIT: in addition to Embargo's activation speed and the speed at which it carries out; didn't watch vid at first)

Magic attacks won't require her to move.. but consume her flower points which is equivalent to PP, thus mewtwo's pressure would work good here. I believe on double battles, double pressure is possible, so if PT were to use lugia for example to fly around and safeguard & protect when neccesary, it would be good enough defence. Disable from Mewtwo would be also a good way to remove one of her attacks for a short while. Or torment so she couln't use two attacks in a row or taunt so she'd be forced to attack and leave herself open against choice scarfed machamp for example/forry or something explosion which also halves defence, making it 500 base power in fact.

I'm pretty sure that Pressure only comes into effect if the Pokemon with Pressure is targeted. Feel free to prove me wrong though.
Lugia is awesome.

 

[Samochan]

Whoops. Gotcha. Use smogon.com though, it's more credible imo

Bulbapedia is the most extensive pokemon information package on the internet. I've yet to see any false information lying around there. Smogon is basically your competitive site, but not much else.

Who knows indeed? I think she won't get hurt. Pokemon don't while moving around. Since the only time she 'appears' is at the beginning of the battle, where no entry hazards are out, Spikes, T-Spikes, or SR won't do a thing.

As I said, in pokemon only switching constitutes as "moving around the battlefield". We've seen what shuckle does with protect that it evades the target with something. Even if your pokemon were to move around, say with dig, which should constitute as movement, you won't get hurt by spikes. But this isn't pokemon mechanics anymore lol. In any case, if she were to move around and not get hurt, she would most definitely get hurt if she for example, jumped and then landed onto the spike trap. That's what switching does, placing your pokemon atop spikes.

Embargo has 0 priority. It moves as fast as the Pokemon using it.

Yea yea. But Mewtwo is, I think, the fastest embargo user Red can get. <.< (actually the fastest embargo user to date)

Quick claw is a possibility too, 20% chance of moving first in the priority bracket no matter the speed. But I think mewtwo's speed should suffice, base 130 speed is no joke in pokeverse. 50 base points better than the average of fully evolved pokemon and only 30 less than the fastest non-legendary pokemon. Deoxys cheats by moving all it's base points to speed lol.

"Speed

The Speed stat determines how quickly a Pokémon can act in battle. Pokémon with higher speed will make a move before ones with lower speed under normal conditions. Deoxys in its Speed Forme currently holds the honor of having the highest Speed among all the Pokémon with 180. Ninjask currently has the highest Speed
of all non-legendary Pokémon with 160. The average Speed Stat is 67 for all Pokémon, and the average for all fully evolved Pokémon is 80. "

Pressure works on it's own without any guidance, automatically coming into use. When switching into the battle "*pokemon* is exerting it's pressure" is said. It also affects ally pokemon when they are using moves that affect your pressure pokemon such as eq, discharge etc. Pressure works even if pressuring pokemon were immune to the attack.

 

[PowerBomb]

Bulbapedia is the most extensive pokemon information package on the internet. I've yet to see any false information lying around there. Smogon is basically your competitive site, but not much else.

I don't trust every wiki as just completely accurate info, but 'k.

As I said, in pokemon only switching constitutes as "moving around the battlefield". We've seen what shuckle does with protect that it evades the target with something. Even if your pokemon were to move around, say with dig, which should constitute as movement, you won't get hurt by spikes. But this isn't pokemon mechanics anymore lol. In any case, if she were to move around and not get hurt, she would most definitely get hurt if she for example, jumped and then landed onto the spike trap. That's what switching does, placing your pokemon atop spikes.

I actually think that this would be one of those 'no duh' moves, like how Flamethrower doesn't incinerate stuff in Pokemon. Except for Stealth Rock, though. Those are actually shown to fly around the opponent and only work when actually swapped out.

Yea yea. But Mewtwo is, I think, the fastest embargo user Red can get. <.<

Yeah. I would've thought Deoxys, but he doesn't learn Embargo.

Quick claw is a possibility too, 20% chance of moving first in the priority bracket no matter the speed. But I think mewtwo's speed should suffice, base 130 speed is no joke in pokeverse.

Yep

k going now

Pressure works on it's own without any guidance, automatically coming into use. When switching into the battle "*pokemon* is exerting it's pressure" is said. It also affects ally pokemon when they are using moves that affect your pressure pokemon such as eq, discharge etc. Pressure works even if pressuring pokemon were immune to the attack.

Proof pl0x, will check later

 

[Samochan]

I don't trust every wiki as just completely accurate info, but 'k.

Not like bulbapedia has proven itself to be faulty or non-trustworthy. It's more extensive than smogon by far, even serebii.net has less insight info. I'd bet some smogon users basically edit the info there, at least serebii users update the anime info and all that. =) Personally I've yet to encounter false info I couldn't cross-reference with something or something I personally knew to be faulty.

I actually think that this would be one of those 'no duh' moves, like how Flamethrower doesn't incinerate stuff in Pokemon. Except for Stealth Rock, though. Those are actually shown to fly around the opponent and only work when actually swapped out.

I dunno. <_>

Proof pl0x, will check later

You don't trust my word? >_>

"Pressure

Moves that affect this Pokémon (including Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Stealth Rock) lose one extra PP per turn. When a Pokémon with this ability is first in the party, wild encounters have a higher chance of occurring." - Smogon

"In battle

Pressure doubles the foe's PP usage for every successful hit. This ability works even if the Pokémon is immune to the attack's type, for example, using Earthquake against a Flying-type Pokémon.

Starting in Generation IV, Pressure also affects ally Pokémon in a double battle when using moves such as Earthquake, Surf, Lava Plume, Discharge or any other move which affect all Pokémon engaged in battle.

As of Generation IV, one is alerted to the presence of Pressure by the message "<name> is exerting its Pressure!" - Bulbapedia

And serebii makes a short mention of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beYBcez67vg

You can see the line here. Though 3rd gen lacked the pressure line, you still do not need to target any abilities (you can't target abilities lol) and all the startup abilities come up automaticaly when you switch your pokemon in (such as intimidate).

 

[justaway12]

One pokemon could also be used to protect red from damage or fly him away from peach's range.

Red is a normal human right? When the battle starts and he sees Peach use it, he won't have a lot of time to react.

Mewtwo also learns safeguard, so status effects wouldn't work (dunno what sleepy sheeps are (no sleepy time?)... but not even attacks that cause statuses can cause statuses when guard is in effect).

They are the same move, I just forget what it was called. And she just needs to attack Red.

Magic attacks won't require her to move.. but consume her flower points which is equivalent to PP, thus mewtwo's pressure would work good here.

There is an attack that don't use her FP, in M&L:BiS Peach can wish to weaken Mewtwo, also her heart powers can control Red...or anyone for that matter.

I believe on double battles, double pressure is possible, so if PT were to use lugia for example to fly around and safeguard & protect when neccesary, it would be good enough defence.

Her moves effect everyone on the feild and some of her magic attacks involve things falling from the sky.

Disable from Mewtwo would be also a good way to remove one of her attacks for a short while. Or torment so she couln't use two attacks in a row or taunt so she'd be forced to attack and leave herself open against choice scarfed machamp for example/forry or something explosion which also halves defence, making it 500 base power in fact.

Disable isn't really going to help, since she would really just do another move, like the mad vibe. Torment too.

I heard Taunt was a status effect, and also that it was effected by protect. Same with Embargo, I forgot what we decided for Embargo.

Oh I just remembered, she could simply rush Red with the mad vibe since she gained infinate vibe.

 

[_clinton]

_Clinton is making sence here people... O.o

I can't believe how much I had to talk it down in simple terms for this area…it scares me…

Last time I checked, telepathy = transferring your thoughts or feelings to another via other means than the five senses, aka mindspeak.

Telepathy does NOT include altering someone else's thoughts, feelings or somehow mucking around someone else's mind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telepathy

You know...when you post a link talking about something...you might want to make sure that link agrees with you fully...as in read the whole thing next time...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telepathy#Telepathy_in_popular_culture

Some fictional telepaths possess mind control abilities,

It's not uncommon at all for telepathy to have some aspects of “mental damage” in it...

Ganon can only be killed by the Master Sword. I think Light arrows and Silver arrows do something too. I'm not a zelda expert, but the point is that Luigi lacks any of these things and would be unable to hurt Ganon.

Luigi doesn't lack "holy" power...he is a star child you know...which again...all 7 put together have universal consequences...

Oh, I finally see what you meant when you said Ness and Lucas are super fast. I guess they would be fast, but not as fast as the stuff they are fighting since they still get hit.

And the stuff they are fighting gets hit by them...not bad for something that flies/moves just a little bit beyond the word of "fast"

Considering the Barrier doesn't stay up... When Brick Break hits Reflect/Light Screen, they are shown as barriers/walls. When that happens to the move Barrier, no actual wall/barrier of light shows up. Ionno, just a thought

Again…games have rules for the last time…things don’t always make sense
And fun fact…reflect/light screen pass on to the other party members freely…

Yeah, I got that. I'm still confused as to why Taunt is altering someone's mind or reading it. Well, maybe it could be if you're messing with their head in order to piss them off. I don't have Telepathy but I can Taunt. So does that mean I now have Telepathy?

So…ask yourself this…how do you think they fall for the taunt in the 1st place?

Put in badly? Says who? Says you?

Are you really saying that the game mechs. for pokemon agree with what the pokemon have been said to do? I mean…I just pointed out to you that they can’t even get their buffs right…

Thunder Wave is not TK... Otherwise, we have Pikachu who can now use TK because it is using Thunder Wave >_>

Last I checked Mewtwo doesn’t have electric pouches on his face…unless I’m clearly missing something here…can’t say for sure though…

The electricity, fire, ice, whatever else that Mewtwo forms for many of his moves is clearly not “coming” from him itself in case you don’t get that already…so it’s clear that Mewtwo is very good at using PK/TK

Primary Psychic's or secondary ones?

I don’t see why it matters if they are primary psychic or secondary ones…they are still “psychic”
Just like how Dragonite is still a dragon…even though it is part flying…

@everyone who says Ganon can be hurt by holy weapons whatsoever
When was it stated that any holy assault can defeat him? Like Ganonsburg said the weapon has to be SPECIFICALLY MADE AND DESIGNED TO STOP EVIL. Its is stated that only the weapon that sparkels the light to destroy evil can harm him (WW). Everytime Ganon/dorf appeared in a game you have to get the Master Sword and sometimes the Light/Silver Arrows. And you can only use these 3 weapons against Ganondorf to damage him. Why not another holy weapon? In games Ganon didnt appeared you have other swords and NOT the Master Sword. Thats right because those are the only weapons that smites evil itself.

How many weapons do you think have a “holy element” in the Zelda series…just wondering really?

Also…look at the Magical Sword from the 1st Zelda games…
There is no proof that it is the master sword…only speculation…
Hell plenty of other things show evidence linked to the gods…such as phantom hourglass

I still want to know how you can think Ganondorf is going to beat a character like Pit…who clearly has bested a being that beat a god in the 1st place…fun fact…god>devil in case you don’t get that…

I mean…the full triforce isn’t even close to the power of the gods that made it in the 1st place in case you keep forgetting that…

Oh and I like your logic behind thinking that the only reason the master sword works and something else doesn’t is because of how it is build…it’s not just the fact that Nintendo can’t stop with the remaking of the same story over and over again at all…

The Execution Sword is holy.This sword belonged to the sages chosen from the goddesses. Also the sword was sparkled with light of the sages just not with the light to smite evil. And why do you think Ganondorf wanted to keep this sword? He can get a regular sword elsewhere that does probably more damage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELJaJi-1Q6s

Please show me in TP where the ES is holy…it’s just the sage’s sword…which is funny…I like how the sages sword doesn’t work…even though it was them that powered the master sword to be what it is in the 1st place in WW…man that is funny…

BTW…sages =/= gods…so how could they really make anything “holy” in the 1st place?

Considering the things Ganondorf has taken and literally laughed off(pulling a sword out of his own gut, for example), that would never happen.

Which is funny because Luigi has been seen taking worse than a sword through his fun parts…

But your idea in general has merit. If a character is beaten to the point where they cannot recover within a reasonable amount of time, that should qualify as defeat.

Which sure does show affects with Ganondorf actually…

 

[Samochan]

Red is a normal human right? When the battle starts and he sees Peach use it, he won't have a lot of time to react.

PT doesn't neccesarily need to start within the range of peach and as a seasoned battler, I don't think peach has any better reaction speed than PT does.

There is an attack that don't use her FP, in M&L:BiS Peach can wish to weaken Mewtwo, also her heart powers can control Red...or anyone for that matter.

What is M&L:BiS? <_>;; And what heart controlling powers are you talking about now? Care to explain pls?

Her moves effect everyone on the feild and some of her magic attacks involve things falling from the sky.

Are they some certain magic attacks then?

Disable isn't really going to help, since she would really just do another move, like the mad vibe. Torment too.

I heard Taunt was a status effect, and also that it was effected by protect. Same with Embargo, I forgot what we decided for Embargo.

Oh I just remembered, she could simply rush Red with the mad vibe since she gained infinate vibe.

I just threw disable as a filler move. It could be anything useful, liek recover or substitute. Mewtwo could perhaps forgone safeguard for Lugia to use, that way PT could fly on lugia and use safeguard and Mewtwo could use embargo (PT can easily command 2 pokes on same turn, as seen on doubles battle). Then mewtwo would have some room for substitute + recover, so he could stay alive. Peach herself can't spam bazillion of moves faster than 2 pokemons together either.

Taunt can be protected yea, so can embargo... but not like peach is allowed to stick to her umbrella 24/7. That would only provide machamp leeway to get at her and pwn her.

Mad vibe spamming peach can't fly can she? Torment would also effectively stop her from spamming that move in succession.

What about vibe scepter getting affected by embargo? Would that disable her vibes?

Hm... someone should curse her when her items are disabled, 1/4hp loss each turn. =D Or destiny bond. Gengar can learn embargo/curse/destiny bond and many other moves like torment, sub... and really fast to boot and can levitate, immune to normal and fightning type attacks. :3 I dunno if curse would be classified under status effects though, I don't think safeguard protects from curse.

--

Clinton, mewtwo hasn't showcased anything further in telepathy besides mindspeak. =) It's not uncommon for telepathic person to be able to affect someone's mind in fiction true, such as jean grey or Emma frost, but as quoted, some telepathic possess the ability but not all. Mewtwo doesn't in the games.

 

[missingnomaster]

Dang, Rock Candy. Hits EVERYTHING and for massive damage and has almost no start up time at all. GG Red.


@_clinton: Linoone learns Ice Beam and Thunderbolt. Also Water Pulse. What now?

 

[Samochan]

Dang, Rock Candy. Hits EVERYTHING and for massive damage and has almost no start up time at all. GG Red.

"A Rock Candy is a damage-dealing item found in Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars. Mario and his friends only can find this item in certain dungeons as inside the Pipes of Bean Valley or inside Bowser's Castle, where this item lies mainly. When used, the Rock Candy performs a shining star storm, hitting always the target with two hundred damage points. "

I take your word for it that it hits every target, even though this one doesn't use prural...

How much is 200 points when you use it against bosses and whatnot?

Then again, nothing in super mario rpg has no startup cause it's rpg and enemies are frozen when you look at your inventory lol. >_>

I'm still fairly certain mewtwo (and many other pokes for that matter) could outspeed her though.

 

[justaway12]

PT doesn't neccesarily need to start within the range of peach and as a seasoned battler, I don't think peach has any better reaction speed than PT does.

It's not that, it's that since he is a normal human, when she actiavtes Fire Bomb, since it's very quick, while Red is rallying the team or W/E it'd already be activated.

What is M&L:BiS? <_>;; And what heart controlling powers are you talking about now? Care to explain pls?

In Mario & Luigi: Bowser's inside Story, there first fight was with Bowser,

Spoiler

he was weak at that time because of Peach's wishing power and then she could control him after

Are they some certain magic attacks then?

Yes, Sleepy Sheep and....Sleepy Sheep

I just threw disable as a filler move. It could be anything useful, liek recover or substitute. Mewtwo could perhaps forgone safeguard for Lugia to use, that way PT could fly on lugia and use safeguard and Mewtwo could use embargo (PT can easily command 2 pokes on same turn, as seen on doubles battle). Then mewtwo would have some room for substitute + recover, so he could stay alive. Peach herself can't spam bazillion of moves faster than 2 pokemons together either.

You don't really need to spam two moves, to rock candies/fire bombs, should be enough.

Taunt can be protected yea, so can embargo... but not like peach is allowed to stick to her umbrella 24/7. That would only provide machamp leeway to get at her and pwn her.

Not 24/7, just enough to stop from Embargo. Ehhh, Machamp's not so tough, she'll just mad vibe.

Mad vibe spamming peach can't fly can she? Torment would also effectively stop her from spamming that move in succession.

Happy Vibe Peach can. Though Mad vibe would be good for dealing with pokemon on the ground.

Hm... someone should curse her when her items are disabled, 1/4hp loss each turn. =D Or destiny bond. Gengar can learn embargo/curse/destiny bond and many other moves like torment, sub... and really fast to boot and can levitate, immune to normal and fightning type attacks. :3 I dunno if curse would be classified under status effects though, I don't think safeguard protects from curse.

Curse is a status effect right?

 

[missingnomaster]

"A Rock Candy is a damage-dealing item found in Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars. Mario and his friends only can find this item in certain dungeons as inside the Pipes of Bean Valley or inside Bowser's Castle, where this item lies mainly. When used, the Rock Candy performs a shining star storm, hitting always the target with two hundred damage points. "

I take your word for it that it hits every target, even though this one doesn't use prural...

How much is 200 points when you use it against bosses and whatnot?

Then again, nothing in super mario rpg has no startup cause it's rpg and enemies are frozen when you look at your inventory lol. >_>

I'm still fairly certain mewtwo (and many other pokes for that matter) could outspeed her though.

200 isn't that much against most bosses, but against Red.... And Mewtwo has no way of outspeeding that, because the animation for Embargo takes longer than using Rock Candy.

In Mario & Luigi: Bowser's inside Story, there first fight was with Bowser,

Spoiler

he was weak at that time because of Peach's wishing power and then she could control him after

I'm pretty sure she needed Starlow's help for that...

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ Pokemon Trainer should have Hypno so he could use Hypnosis then Dreameater after words. =3 ☆

 

[justaway12]

I'm pretty sure she needed Starlow's help for that...

Oh right, forgot about that. Although I didn't see her help when Peach was throwing Bowser around though, I tihnk she would be able to do it on someone not as though, like PKMN TRN, but IDK really.

 

[Samochan]

It's not that, it's that since he is a normal human, when she actiavtes Fire Bomb, since it's very quick, while Red is rallying the team or W/E it'd already be activated.

Then I guess Red needs to have a pokemon there using protect, or perhaps a flash fire pokemon like heatran.

In Mario & Luigi: Bowser's inside Story, there first fight was with Bowser,

Spoiler

he was weak at that time because of Peach's wishing power and then she could control him after

I dunno nothing about Boozer's inside story *_*

Yes, Sleepy Sheep and....Sleepy Sheep

Wouldn't sleepy time make enemies sleepy, thus dropping them to ground and not vice versa or something? Safeguard/sub would prevent this.

You don't really need to spam two moves, to rock candies/fire bombs, should be enough.

Not 24/7, just enough to stop from Embargo. Ehhh, Machamp's not so tough, she'll just mad vibe.

Happy Vibe Peach can. Though Mad vibe would be good for dealing with pokemon on the ground.

Embargo peach, not like max hp mewtwo can't take 2 hits and survive for 3 even if we ignore transitions between games and sp.def, then some other pokemon would be performing a move where all attacks target that pokemon instead (if I only could just find that one move, ugh). >.>

Curse is a status effect right?

I'm not entirely sure. But if embargo were to be used, then curse would do the trick. It cannot be removed via otherwise than switching.

Seems like taunt goes through substitute though, taunt is classified under a volatile status but safeguard nor sub protect against it as it's not status ailment per se.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Status_effect

--

Oh dear, I had an idea. Get a lopunny and have it use fake out on peach to flinch her with that priority move, while another pokemon with skill swap switches skills with that lopunny and gets klutz (unable to use held items). Then uses skill swap at peach. =D

Admitedly would require the use of embargo first, fake out flinch might not work at all due to her items and requires some setting up... but it would be fun. =) Same with truant from slaking or some other fun abilities like normalize (makes all attacks normal-type), which would make ghost types totally immune.

Wobba could at least keep peach in place if Red were to just run away lol, then try to destiny bond her.

What about Mewtwo using embargo with quick claw equipped and another pokemon using teleport/kinesis/taunt/protect/sheddy wonderguarding? Taunt is very quick and would prevent her from using other than attack moves, which should disallow the usage of items from that person, as it taunts the opponent into rage so they only use offensive moves. Prolly won't work, but it's a theory. <_<

Oh yes now I found it.

Follow me, which is also a priority move by +3, makes all foes only aim at the user. :3

Hm, if someone were to thief/trick/switcheroo her of one of these rock candies... what's her max hp on super mario rpg again? There's this fight against culex and she has around 175hp.

 

[justaway12]

Then I guess Red needs to have a pokemon there using protect, or perhaps a flash fire pokemon like heatran.

I mean while a he tells a Pokemon to use whatever and the time it takes to get a pokemon to do it, she could just use it then, it takes a second to use.

I don't think that'll work to because if you mean having a pokemon with protect infront of Red, I should tell you it's an extremly large explosion going around the entire stage, it might just pass the pokemon and go to him.

I dunno nothing about Boozer's inside story *_*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt1VNEWl9I0&feature=related I'm not sure if she could do it without her little friend though, though she might. IDK, it seemed that her powers were used the most. Go to 2:46

Wouldn't sleepy time make enemies sleepy, thus dropping them to ground and not vice versa or something? Safeguard/sub would prevent this.

No, they fall from the sky and land on the opponent.

Embargo peach, not like max hp mewtwo can't take 2 hits and survive for 3 even if we ignore transitions between games and sp.def, then some other pokemon would be performing a move where all attacks target that pokemon instead (if I only could just find that one move, ugh). >.>

Forgot about that Move =/

I'm not entirely sure. But if embargo were to be used, then curse would do the trick. It cannot be removed via otherwise than switching.

I'm not getting this part.

Oh dear, I had an idea. Get a lopunny and have it use fake out on peach to flinch her with that priority move, while another pokemon with skill swap switches skills with that lopunny and gets klutz (unable to use held items). Then uses skill swap at peach. =D

Admitedly would require the use of embargo first, fake out flinch might not work at all due to her items and requires some setting up... but it would be fun. =) Same with truant from slaking or some other fun abilities like normalize (makes all attacks normal-type), which would make ghost types totally immune.

Wobba could at least keep peach in place if Red were to just run away lol, then try to destiny bond her.

Peach uses parasol.

 

[missingnomaster]

What's stopping Red from dieing as a result of Rock Candy?

 

[Samochan]

I mean while a he tells a Pokemon to use whatever and the time it takes to get a pokemon to do it, she could just use it then, it takes a second to use.

I don't think that'll work to because if you mean having a pokemon with protect infront of Red, I should tell you it's an extremly large explosion going around the entire stage, it might just pass the pokemon and go to him.

For an rpg, it takes less time to seemingly command pokemon than it does to select an item from the huge item bag you possess on rpg (not to mention all ther other items too).

However if a pokemon were to use follow me outside this area, which seems to be the size of around a house, it would then go to this pokemon and ignore Red instead.

Thief or taunt could be perhaps used to steal this rock candy or prevent peach attacking with items but forcing her to attack with attack moves instead. <_>

I hate rock candy now. >.> I'm relying on Mewtwo with quick claw and superb speed to make use of embargo first though.

No, they fall from the sky and land on the opponent.

Sleepy Sheep fall from the sky? O_o;

I'm not getting this part.

If peach has anti-status items in place, then curse might or might not work, I'm not sure. Embargo would make her vulnerable to curse however.

I saw curse goes through protect though, should be able to penetrate parasol too.

Was peach immune to flinch again?

 

[missingnomaster]

There are multiple Rock Candy.

Quick Claw does not decrease the length of then animation of an attack, and Embargo takes longer than Rock Candy.

Taunt doesn't stop the use of items, especially not attack items.

 

[justaway12]

For an rpg, it takes less time to seemingly command pokemon than it does to select an item from the huge item bag you possess on rpg (not to mention all ther other items too).

No, you see her taking it out.

Thief or taunt could be perhaps used to steal this rock candy or prevent peach attacking with items but forcing her to attack with attack moves instead. <_>

There is more than one.

Sleepy Sheep fall from the sky? O_o;

Yeah, they fall on your head.

If peach has anti-status items in place, then curse might or might not work, I'm not sure. Embargo would make her vulnerable to curse however.

Not an item, more like an accessory.

I saw curse goes through protect though, should be able to penetrate parasol too.

It seems like a status effect to me, even if it isn't, she could heal herself when needed and can dfend from Embargo, so she could also use life shrooms.

Was peach immune to flinch again?

It says all status effects, even so, getting the rock candy would be faster.

 

[REL38]

Wait . . . . why can PT use Mewtwo?

He's already a character on the roster and giving him to PT is giving Mewtwo dual appearances in these MU's >___>

Only Mewtwo PT is better with held item and tutor moves >______>