Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

[:mad:]

Snake would get ***** by Samus hands down. I mean she has a stun gun to set up Snake for the kill. She also has been trained to the point that she has Super Human speed, strength, and reflexes. There is no way Snake could compete even with CQC techniques.

I'd have to agree with this.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

This sorta just poped in my head. If we're talking about characters true to their games, how are we sure what level Pikachu is?

 

[Crystanium]

Dryn, that was the driving force behind the Kirby argument. That Kirby can't die by simply being stabbed. Not saying it was you, I faintly remember that fiasco. But I'll go ahead and jump on the invincibility bandwagon.

Invicibility is not immortality. And really, play a Kirby game. Kirby can be defeated. He's not invincible.

 

[:mad:]

I've played plenty, all characters can be defeated in the Nintendo universe.

 

[Sonic on the Rocks]

Mario Vs. Link!

This should be highly controversial.
It all depends on which games the characters have access to.
If Link has every one of his games to draw items from, but Mario does not, Link wins.
If Mario has every one of his games to draw items from, but Link does not, then Mario would win.
If they both have every one of his games to draw items from, then it's either a draw or Link wins (depending on whether or not indefinitely stalling is a legitimate way to win). I don't believe that stalling forever should be a legitimate way to win, as you're not really even fighting anymore.

Which games should each get?
Should Link only get items from games that featured Adult Link? Just Twilight Princess? Or should he get them all, as each Link is reincarnated and so they all have the same soul?
Should Mario only get items from his "main series"? Only from games that featured Mario as an adult? Or should he get them from every game, even from the non-canon ones (like the CD-i games and Paper Mario)?

Sonic Vs. Ike!

Sonic should in fact win this one, so long as he can go Super Sonic. Sonic might not be strong enough to wrestle Rangell from Ike's hands, but Super forms are immune to damage and much stronger and faster.

Metaknight Vs. Olimar

Meta Knight wins, as he can fly extremely fast and kill the Pikmin almost instantly. Or he could simply create a huge (relative to Kirby's world, but Olimar is the size of a quarter) tornado and blow the Pikmin into the air, killing them upon hitting the ground.

Pokemon Trainer Vs. Lucario

Alright, there's a fairly simple way to end this. Lucario uses Extreme Speed and kills Red. If a Pokemon of his uses Protect to stop Lucario, then Lucario can use Feint to get around it, then kill Red. If one of Red's Pokemon is faster than Lucario, Lucario can use Detect to stop it's attacks. Lucario's Roar can scare Red's Pokemon away. If Dectect doesn't work, Lucario uses Endure to survive any attacks. Lucario can use Substitute or Double Team to prevent him from being attacked. If he can't attack Red physically, a Vacuum Wave goes just as fast as Extreme Speed. Swift and Aura Sphere never miss their target. If Lucario is heavily damaged somehow, it can use Reversal. Red can't win.

Zelda/Sheik Vs. Ice Climbers

Zelda/Sheik wins, mostly due to the fact that the Ice Climbers die pretty easily and Shiek has Deku Nuts to stun them. If that doesn't work, Zelda always has Light Arrows.

Roy Vs. Young Link

?
I can't help with this one, but Young Link has Naryu's Love to protect him, Din's Fire if Roy gets close... Light Arrows...

Peach Vs. Pichu

Peach quite frankly just wins, as she kicked *** in Super Mario RPG and Super Princess Peach. Pichu's pretty fast and can hit hard with some moves, but Volt Tackle will inflict heavy damage. I believe Peach's umbrella also protects her, and she has a good amount of health.

Samus Vs. Fox

Spamus wins no contest, as Fox/Falco/Wolf's machines can't compare to all of Samus's weaponry. Not even their Arwing/Landmaster/Wolfen can protect them, as Samus has a beam that goes through anything. Her Screw Attack leaves her totally immune to damage while in it, and her Space Jump lets her jump forever. Powerbombs can cause massive damage, along with Ice Missles and Super Missles.
Let's not forget Samus's Starship.

Kirby Vs. Marth = ?

I can't help here, but Kirby can frankly dish out alot of damage, even with his small height. Riding on a Warpstar/his Starship can allow him to spam greatly while flying around really fast. Too bad Ghost Kirby is slow.

Dr. Mario Vs. Diddy Kong

Diddy Kong wins, I don't know wtf you're doing here. Doctor Mario can't really do anything by himself. Diddy Kong has his Peanut Popguns (which actually do a fair amount of damage) and his Rocketbarrel Pack. And chimps are pretty darn strong.

Wario Vs. King DeDeDe

?
Kind Dedede is strong even for his size, but I'm not sure about Wario's abilities.

Wolf Vs. Toon Link

Toon Link is very strong, depending on what he has access to.
He can't have everything Young/Adult Link has, as he's not in the same line of re-incarnation. Toon Link is on another side of the timeline (LET'S NOT START TIMELINE DEBATES, PLEASE). The same goes from Young/Adult Link in regards to Toon Link. Anyway, does Toon Link only have Wind Waker/Phantom Hourglass/Spirit Tracks stuff, or does he have Four Swords (& FS Adventures) and Minish Cap stuff as well?

Zero Suit Samus Vs. Snake

I'm not sure of the degree of protection the Zero Suit offers, as I've never played Metroid: Zero Mission, but that doesn't matter if Snake has a powerful gun. If he shoots Zero Suit Samus in the face, she's dead. If it's just a jumpsuit, he can shoot her pretty much anywhere. I'm pretty sure bullets go faster than the shots from ZSS's energy pistol.
EDIT: People posted while I posted. T_T
At any rate, if Snake's allow to bring a Metal Gear into this, then he moves up significantly. Not many people can survive being anywhere near a Nuclear Explosion.

Mr.Game & Watch Vs. R.O.B

Uh, wow. These are pretty much the worst characters. If ROB is just the Robotic Operating Buddy toy, then Game&Watch wins. If you let ROB have stuff from Mario Kart, then ROB wins.

Bowser Vs. Falco

Bowser wins (probably). In Super Mario Sunshine, Bowser is freaking huge. Combine his hugeness with all of his other techniques and Falco might not win.

Lucas Vs. Yoshi

Lucas wins, no contest. I know Yoshi throws eggs pretty hard and such, but Lucas has quite the arsenal of PSI techniques, and PK Love is just as devestating as PSI Rockin.

Now moving on to the disputes about what to use, it's much more simple to just restrict it to only the games. If you let anime/magna/comics come into play, some people get enormously more powerful, and there's always the cases of conflicting canons. For example, in the Sonic Comic, Sonic has a form called Ultra Sonic that lets him manipulate everything at a molecular level (along with the extreme speed/strength/invincibility), effectively making him able to kill everyone.

It's unessessary and makes everything more complicated and less fun.

@Kirby's invincibility: Yes, Kirby cannot be harmed by things he is swallowing. So if Marth tries to stab Kirby in the mouth, it's not going to work. However, if you've played a Kirby game, you'll recognize the common Blade Knight who can easily harm Kirby with his sword.

 

[Zolga Owns]

What SOTR just posted pretty much covers all the bases.

If we let the Pokemon Trainer have more than just the 3 Brawl Pokemon(since he IS Red) then he becomes quite a threat.
He would virtually have access to all Kanto and Johto Pokemon(excluding those that are unobtainable).
And if he would have access to the Johto region then all the Pokemon from HG and SS would theoretically be accessible. But thats stretching it considering the timelines.

Spoiler

Subtle advertising for our forum by deleting the quote in your sig?

 

[§leepy God]

♪ I never get how a main character in a game walk to an enemy and get hurt. I ponder about that for a long time, I'm talking about enemy's that just walk to you that don't attack, or have no spikes on their body, ROFL. †

 

[Zolga Owns]

♪ I never get how a main character in a game walk to an enemy and get hurt. I ponder about that for a long time, I'm talking about enemy's that just walk to you that don't attack, or have no spikes on their body, ROFL. †

Game Mechanics are funny things.

 

[Crystanium]

If he shoots Zero Suit Samus in the face, she's dead.

If Samus shoots Snake and snaps his neck, he's dead. Do you see how that works? Samus is much faster than Snake. And you clearly stated that you've never played Metroid: Zero Mission. You also said that you're not sure how much Samus is covered. If the Energy Tanks cover Samus' entire body when she has her Power Suit on, I don't see why it's not the same when she's in her Zero Suit.

Samus in combat? I like!

If it's just a jumpsuit, he can shoot her pretty much anywhere.

It's not "just a jumpsuit." Go and watch the Metroid: Other M trailer. If Samus wanted to, she could transform and have her armor on just like that. This is also originally shown in Metroid: Zero Mission, as well as the Metroid manga.

I'm pretty sure bullets go faster than the shots from ZSS's energy pistol.

You can't be certain, especially since it's never been said how fast Samus' auto-charged Energy Pistol fires.

At any rate, if Snake's allow to bring a Metal Gear into this, then he moves up significantly. Not many people can survive being anywhere near a Nuclear Explosion.

If Snake can take care of Metal Gears, I don't see why it's not possible for Samus. And why would Snake bring a Metal Gear into this battle? It's Samus (armorless) versus Snake. Not Samus versus Snake and his Metal Gear.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I see a lot of flaws in SOTR's post. Lucario was given more than four moves, for one.

 

[Zolga Owns]

Since those situations were hypothetical that could be interpreted as different scenarios.
Which would be logical and consistent to having only 4 moves.

But you also didn't notice that technically Pokemon know more than 4 moves.
Its just a game mechanic that they can only use 4.

Have we settled whether Pokemon Trainer can have more than the 3 Pokemon than he has in Brawl?
He should since he is Red who has more than those three.
(Red has access to Kanto and Johto)

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Since those situations were hypothetical that could be interpreted as different scenarios.
Which would be logical and consistent to having only 4 moves.

But you also didn't notice that technically Pokemon know more than 4 moves.
Its just a game mechanic that they can only use 4.

Have we settled whether Pokemon Trainer can have more than the 3 Pokemon than he has in Brawl?
He should since he is Red who has more than those three.
(Red has access to Kanto and Johto)

Ah, that makes sense.

If Red has more Pokemon in his original game than what he has in brawl, I don't see why he can't use them.

 

[Zolga Owns]

Then Pokemon Trainer got a whole lot more badass.
He can camp by riding on Dragonite/Lugia/Ho-oh/etc with Alakazam/Slowking/etc to teleport them out of harms way.
His other Pokemon can be commanded from afar and used to attack everyone else.

 

[Bellioes]

LOL That would be one crazy opponent.
If you really want to stick to PT being Red, then you should know that in the GSC version, he has 6 pokemon. Theyre Pika, Charzard, Blastoise, Venasaur, Snorlax, and... shoot I forgot the sixth one. Pikachu is lvl 80 something too. You can fight him in some cave after beating the E4.

EDIT: I just checked and his Pika is lvl 81. Also, his 6th pokemon is an Umbreon or Espeon but I dont know how its decided which one he uses. Also, you figth him at Mount Silver.

 

[Zolga Owns]

True, but since he is "The Best Pokemon Trainer" it stands to reason that he has access to more than those 6.

But even in those 6 he can still do some crazy stuff.

(6th is an Espeon)

 

[Bellioes]

Yeah, In the actual show\movies, he catchs a whole bunch of pokemon he doesnt have in GSC and he always gets new ones each season. And if you count befriending pokemon as catching them, you can add Lugia, Celebi, Mew, Entei, and Latios/Latias to the list lol

EDIT 700th Post

 

[Sonic on the Rocks]

@Dryn: You posted while I typed.
This is why I crossed out all of that.

He can camp by riding on Dragonite/Lugia/Ho-oh/etc with Alakazam/Slowking/etc to teleport them out of harms way.
His other Pokemon can be commanded from afar and used to attack everyone else.

Red doesn't get most Legendary Pokemon.
There's a bit of a contradiction in FR/LG regarding the capture of Entei, Raikou and Suicune. Since there's only one of each Pokemon in canon (as they were stated to be created by Ho-Oh), and they're still statues at the start of G/S/C, I'd say their appearance in FR/LG isn't canon, so he can't get them either.
He can't get Lugia or Ho-Oh, since there's only one of them and they're still wild when you find them in G/S/C, and he certianly can't get a Celebi or Mew. Red shouldn't have access to Event Pokemon.
Now regarding the Legendary Birds, it depends on whether or not there's more than one of them. I don't think they'd be 'legendary' if there was more than one, so I'd say that their appearance in the Sinnoh region in Platinum Version shows that Red did not catch them in FR/LG.

In short, the only Legendary Pokemon Red could have is Mewtwo.

 

[Bellioes]

True but are we tlaking about the game or just Red/Ash in general? Cause if you include the shows/movies, he has access to a lot more pokemon like I said above.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

True but are we tlaking about the game or just Red/Ash in general? Cause if you include the shows/movies, he has access to a lot more pokemon like I said above.

Just the game.

 

[Bellioes]

Oh ok, thats what confused me. Well in that case, are we considering Red as the character you play as in all the regions or just the first 2 generations?
Cause It would get a lot more complicated with so many regions to chose from. We could just pick the best from each region; Garchomp FTW ^_^

 

[Zolga Owns]

The two regions he would have access to canonically.
Which would be Johto and Kanto.

And thank you SOTR for clearing up the Legendary aspects.

Though there could be more than one Legendary.
Remember the baby Lugia and the multiple Mews?

 

[Sonic on the Rocks]

Both are from Anime.
Lugia is genderless, thus unable to breed.
Mew used to be an expansive species, however they're unimaginably rare now. More than one could exist in concept, but Mew is unobtainable in the games without a Nintendo Event. Such Pokemon should be unobtainable.
And I thought that after becoming Champion, Red became a jerk and has spent most of his time on Mount Silver, training.

 

[Zolga Owns]

I know its from the Anime.
I'm just saying in general there could be more than one of each Legendary.
You never know.

Emo trainer is emo.

 

[Sonic on the Rocks]

http://kirby.wikia.com/wiki/Ghost

Ghost gives Kirby the power to control enemies and use their powers as his own. Ironically, while ghosts are usually portrayed as having the ability to pass through solid objects, Ghost Kirby does not have that ability- he can't even travel down ladders or pass-through floors that the regular Kirby can pass through.

Ghost Kirby is not intangible, thus all "Instant-kill via phasing" techniques are invalid.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Okay guys, here is what I got so far.

Kirby - 4 votes > Marth - 0 votes.
Snake - 4 votes > Zss - 2 votes.
Pikachu - 2 votes > Luigi - 2 votes.
Ness - 3 votes > Mewtwo - 1 votes.
Pit - 4 votes > Dk - 0 votes.

I need one final vote/decision for Luigi and Pikachu. Who should advance?

And, did we settle for Lucario beating Pokemon Trainer, or the other way around?

 

[Crazy_mofo213]

Well to break the tie I'll vote for Luigi.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Okay, guys, let's move on to the losers bracket.

Donkey K. Vs. Mario.

 

[Sonic on the Rocks]

Mario wins, no contest.
Tons and tons of weapons from his RPGs.

 

[Snowstalker]

I believe they've fought, and I believe Mario won. Against a 50-foot tall DK in a Game Boy game for instance.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I'd have to say Mario.

 

[Sonic on the Rocks]

Yeah...
Anyway, I've dug up the latest revision of the list from the old thread.
Anyone want to see it?

 

[Crystanium]

Okay guys, here is what I got so far.

Kirby - 4 votes > Marth - 0 votes.
Snake - 4 votes > Zss - 2 votes.
Pikachu - 2 votes > Luigi - 2 votes.
Ness - 3 votes > Mewtwo - 1 votes.
Pit - 4 votes > Dk - 0 votes.

I need one final vote/decision for Luigi and Pikachu. Who should advance?

And, did we settle for Lucario beating Pokemon Trainer, or the other way around?

Why does Snake have four votes? Who came in here yesterday and presented why Snake would beat Samus (armorless)? It's official. This only goes by votes, and no one knows about Samus when she's outside of her armor. What a shame. I'm done. Snake can have his biased votes.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Why does Snake have four votes? Who came in here yesterday and presented why Snake would beat Samus (armorless)? It's official. This only goes by votes, and no one knows about Samus when she's outside of her armor. What a shame. I'm done. Snake can have his biased votes.

Zamus isn't completely out, you know. She still might be able to make it to the top 10. And, if WhatIsRaizen knows what he's doing, and if Zamus gets more victories than Snake, she should be above him on the final list.

 

[Sonic on the Rocks]

If we know someone can beat someone else, then why vote on the matter?

 

[Fire!]

Its fun to read people's opinions.

Anyway, Mario.

 

[Zolga Owns]

Oh yeah I forgot to change my vote from Snake to Zamus.

Also Mario would **** DK.
All the weapons and powers from RPG...wow.

 

[Moozle]

Mario. He has so many different ways to beat DK, my favorite of which are the pixis from super paper mario. I love thoreau <3

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ Mario has always beat Donkey Kong in their games... well not really, but Mario has been though much more than Donkey Kong has... how did Mario lose again? XD ☆

 

[Sonic on the Rocks]

Does it matter if a game is canon?
Like, could a person get a power or ability from a game that wasn't canon to the series?

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Okay, guys, I want to speed this up, so let's do at least two match-ups a day.

Ike Vs. Lucario, Ice Climbers Vs. Pikmin & Olimar.

Who'd win in a fight?