Smash Brawl Icon Discovery

[RandomGuy42]

Yes, I wish that would be removed from the first post.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Except it's not because 21 is the DS logo and not the TG logo. Besides, the alphabetical ordering is flawed anyway.

Remember, though: the DS logo is universal, while the Touch!Generation logo varies between regions. It could very well be interpreted as Touch!Generation just so it doesn't confuse the f**k out of people.

 

[Boofer]

Two things about the alphabetical theory still don't make sense to me:

1. Your reason for why he would change the order from being main character based, to being franchise based.

You say it's because he doesn't want fans to find out who will be added to the game? First of all, I don't think he even considered fans going through all the trouble that you guys have. Secondly, if he did consider this extreme speculation based on characters' first name, why would he think that we wouldn't figure out the change to the icons being based on the franchises? It would still be pretty obvious who the PC would be if we knew the franchise.

2. Japanese words based on English alphabetical order

Why would they do this? Yes, I know that you say it's based on phonetics, but why wouldn't they just order it by whatever order there is for Japanese characters/symbols?

Edit:

Sure it matters. Like I said, if the order of SSB64 icons was created before the melee era then it is possible that he could have changed the basis of the order because of fan speculation on the internet. However, if there was no order before the brawl or melee site came up then I don't think he would have switched up the order. In other words, if he created the list of icons all at the same time (for brawl) then why would he have started with characters in the first place if the order was in fact to prevent character predictions?

I also still stand by this. Especially the question in the bold. Got an answer Dyce?

 

[RandomGuy42]

Remember, though: the DS logo is universal, while the Touch!Generation logo varies between regions. It could very well be interpreted as Touch!Generation just so it doesn't confuse the f**k out of people.

its not like I'm reaching far to make sense of it.

And I mentioned, "Why would the Japanese use English?" before. Never really got an answer to that one.

 

[WeeklyJumpman]

#13 is no doubt Game and Watch, because the first 14 series listed are all returning series.

And he'll be unlockable, I'm sure.

 

[Brawlmatt202]

#13 is no doubt Game and Watch, because the first 14 series listed are all returning series.

And he'll be unlockable, I'm sure.

DUDE, your sig, MAJOR spoilers for people who haven't been reading the Japanese One Piece manga!

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Ok. I've pondered this, and after much scrutinous thought coupled with some slight research, I have come up with a rebuttle to the "Why would they use English letters and the English alphabet to order the icons?" statement:




Maybe because you can't save web addresses in Japanese kanji, hiragana, or katakana symbols? And evidently there is no "order" to the Japanese alphabet, so why not use an order that is already made for the language it's addressed in?

Think it over, do whatever you need to do, and get back to me with a response to that one when you find it.

 

[TheJalapeno]

With Game and Watch...How would they update him graphically?

Anybody else see that coming?

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

With Game and Watch...How would they update him graphically?

Anybody else see that coming?

I have two smart-alek remarks for this:

1. *cough*Kirby*cough*
2. This is the wrong thread to be speculating like this in. Check out the Brawl Character Discussion tab on the front page.

Ok, maybe only one smart-alek remark...

 

[2nd Stamp]

Keep in mind the weird posting of the "PictoChat" stage was probably to cause confusions on theories like this.

 

[Brockman5]

I'm still not sure Dyce..I've been watching this since day 1..but now I think that there's no order (or at least that we can find) about the dojo...Too many "patterns" have shown up all that have falled...although I hope this is true so that Olimar can be confirmed, but I also hope this isn't true due to we may not be gettin many more characters..*sigh*

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

I'm still not sure Dyce..I've been watching this since day 1..but now I think that there's no order (or at least that we can find) about the dojo...Too many "patterns" have shown up all that have falled...although I hope this is true so that Olimar can be confirmed, but I also hope this isn't true due to we may not be gettin many more characters..*sigh*

First, no, there aren't many "orders" or "patterns" that we can find, but this one seems to be the one that may hold to be true.

Second, Olimar (or any character other than MrG&W, for that matter) is not guaranteed or even implied to have any representation from this theory.

Third, the theory means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in terms of how far the final roster may reach.

 

[Cubelarooso]

Maybe because you can't save web addresses in Japanese kanji, hiragana, or katakana symbols? And evidently there is no "order" to the Japanese alphabet, so why not use an order that is already made for the language it's addressed in?

It's addressed in numerals.

Second, Olimar (or any character other than MrG&W, for that matter) is not guaranteed or even implied to have any representation from this theory.

First, your theory does imply Pikmin.
Second, if you believe the only series affected by this theory is Game & Watch, why bother with this theory? It apparently gives no more information with the unarguable SSB-64-Melee-Brawl "theory."

 

[MajinNecro69]

Hell, for all we know, Sakurai KNOWS this pattern, and may re-title the numbers if he sees fit to add more franchises.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

It's addressed in numerals.

Yes, and they can be fit into places that work with the English alphabet.

First, your theory does imply Pikmin.
Second, if you believe the only series affected by this theory is Game & Watch, why bother with this theory? It apparently gives no more information with the unarguable SSB-64-Melee-Brawl "theory."

First... you're right, it does involve Pikmin. My bad. Don't know why I said that.











Second, because it's fun.

 

[RandomGuy42]

Maybe because you can't save web addresses in Japanese kanji, hiragana, or katakana symbols? And evidently there is no "order" to the Japanese alphabet, so why not use an order that is already made for the language it's addressed in?

How did I miss this? I need to pay more attention.

Anyway, I believe we already covered this. You supposedly claim this order has been set in stone since the days of the original 64 Smash. Now, while I don't personally believe this, let's just carry on with this assumption for the time being. Also remember that while in development, SSB64 was never intended to be released outside Japan, and this decision only changed after it sold exceptionally well and better then anyone expected. Why, then, does this "order" appear only after translating it into a language it wasn't intended to see? Yes, you can't put Hiragana or other variants into a URL, but Smash Bros. didn't have a website back then. And even if it was required to use another language, I would expect we would see the order in Japanese before we saw it in our language.

Also, you've yet to come up with a decent reason why Metroid doesn't follow your own rules. If you can't make things line up perfectly with your basic argument, I think we should at least drop the matter for the time being.


Finally, here's some food for thought. A bunch of us recently theorized that the DS icon may stand for "PictoChat" and PictoChat only.

Take a look at the Delfino Plaza and Bridge of Eldin My Music screens. Above the name of the stage, we see the game that specific stage as come from. Of course, the icons are there beside the stage name showing which world it has come from.

But what about a case where the stage does not come from any specific game? We can see this case with Pokémon Stadium. Above the stage name, there is just the name of the series, "Pokémon". This is the same way we have been organizing the icons, via series name.

PictoChat, too, does not come from any specific game. What then do we see above it's stage name?

We just see the word "PictoChat" again! Perhaps this is what is meant to be used when determining it's placement?

Interesting, no?

 

[MajinNecro69]

How did I miss this? I need to pay more attention.

Anyway, I believe we already covered this. You supposedly claim this order has been set in stone since the days of the original 64 Smash. Now, while I don't personally believe this, let's just carry on with this assumption for the time being. Also remember that while in development, SSB64 was never intended to be released outside Japan, and this decision only changed after it sold exceptionally well and better then anyone expected. Why, then, does this "order" appear only after translating it into a language it wasn't intended to see? Yes, you can't put Hiragana or other variants into a URL, but Smash Bros. didn't have a website back then. And even if it was required to use another language, I would expect we would see the order in Japanese before we saw it in our language.

Also, you've yet to come up with a decent reason why Metroid doesn't follow your own rules. If you can't make things line up perfectly with your basic argument, I think we should at least drop the matter for the time being.


Finally, here's some food for thought. A bunch of us recently theorized that the DS icon may stand for "PictoChat" and PictoChat only.

Take a look at the Delfino Plaza and Bridge of Eldin My Music screens. Above the name of the stage, we see the game that specific stage as come from. Of course, the icons are there beside the stage name showing which world it has come from.

But what about a case where the stage does not come from any specific game? We can see this case with Pokémon Stadium. Above the stage name, there is just the name of the series, "Pokémon". This is the same way we have been organizing the icons, via series name.

PictoChat, too, does not come from any specific game. What then do we see above it's stage name?

We just see the word "PictoChat" again! Perhaps this is what is meant to be used when determining it's placement?

Interesting, no?

That's quite interesting, actually. That's the first logical piece of evidence I've seen thus far deconfirming the icon theory.

I find the icon theory to be somewhat flawed in that it prevents a larger number of franchises from joining Brawl (Golden Sun, Balloon Fighter, Joly Mecha Fight w/ Sukapon, etc.).

I might be "optimistic," but I'm expecting 38 Character SLOTS (I'm discounting PT's Pokes, ZSS, Sheik, etc.), and if we're expecting a lot of them, only seemingly one more new franchise really isn't going to cut it.

 

[omiz144]

What about confirmed Advance Wars AT? I think that will be 19.

 

[SteveTV]

Well, if that happens they'll need to add a symbol for Dr. wright, Devil, Excitebike, Little Mac, Saki Amamiya, and Stafy as well. All who at the moment hold the smash bros. symbol.

 

[wWw Dazwa]

I find the icon theory to be somewhat flawed in that it prevents a larger number of franchises from joining Brawl (Golden Sun, Balloon Fighter, Joly Mecha Fight w/ Sukapon, etc.).

Golden Sun's Japanese name is "Ougon no Taiyou," so it isn't completely out of the question, if the alphabetical part of the icon theory is correct.

 

[Storm Eagle]

What about confirmed Advance Wars AT? I think that will be 19.

We don't know yet if Advance Wars will get a stage or character. But the AT update will tell us.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Finally, here's some food for thought. A bunch of us recently theorized that the DS icon may stand for "PictoChat" and PictoChat only.

Take a look at the Delfino Plaza and Bridge of Eldin My Music screens. Above the name of the stage, we see the game that specific stage as come from. Of course, the icons are there beside the stage name showing which world it has come from.

But what about a case where the stage does not come from any specific game? We can see this case with Pokémon Stadium. Above the stage name, there is just the name of the series, "Pokémon". This is the same way we have been organizing the icons, via series name.

PictoChat, too, does not come from any specific game. What then do we see above it's stage name?

We just see the word "PictoChat" again! Perhaps this is what is meant to be used when determining it's placement?

Interesting, no?

First off, I won't rule out the possibility that the DS logo could stand for Pictochat, but you havn't really countered anything. You're seeing the screen with the name of the stage and the name of the game it's based off of, but you should be seeing it as the name of the stage, the name of the game it's based off of, and the icon which represents the series. In this case, the series could just as easily be considered "DS" or "Touch!Generation".

And yes, I would consider Pictochat a "game". It is software within the the DS hardware that you can interact with, play around with, or play with your friends.

There's nothing to say that the icon doesn't stand for Pictochat, but there isn't really anything saying it does.

 

[Boofer]

First off, I won't rule out the possibility that the DS logo could stand for Pictochat, but you havn't really countered anything. You're seeing the screen with the name of the stage and the name of the game it's based off of, but you should be seeing it as the name of the stage, the name of the game it's based off of, and the icon which represents the series. In this case, the series could just as easily be considered "DS" or "Touch!Generation".

And yes, I would consider Pictochat a "game". It is software within the the DS hardware that you can interact with, play around with, or play with your friends.

There's nothing to say that the icon doesn't stand for Pictochat, but there isn't really anything saying it does.

IS there a pictochat icon? I mean, I see what your saying, but they can't really use the icon if there isn't one. So what would they do instead? Use the DS icon of course.

Granted, there's still a chance they could use the icon's name to order the icons if there is in fact an order. But, I'm not expecting "Touch!Generation" if this is the case.

I think Randomguy42's argument is one of the best to date.

 

[Strongside]

Could they not just... you know, add more icons? We are not limited to two more icons (One being GaW, the other a new one). I find this theory of only two more icons as archaic.

 

[gangstajuice02]

cool dude!

 

[gangstajuice02]

nice!! one!!!

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Could they not just... you know, add more icons? We are not limited to two more icons (One being GaW, the other a new one). I find this theory of only two more icons as archaic.

There doesn't have to be just two more, we just know that there will definitely be two more. There could be 30 icons for all we know, we only just made it up to 21.

 

[Brockman5]

If there were more then 21 after the "Ds logo", "Touch!generation", whatever you want to call it...then wouldn't the theory be disproved because there would be no order thats kept...if it goes

SMASH
SMASH BROS.
SMASH BROS MELEE
SMASH BROS BRAWL

...and all thats left is a slot for GaW and new franchise and then where would the new franchises go??

Just a thought....

 

[balladofwindfishes]

like I said before, DS is the first Nintendo system alphebetically, it might be something to keep in mind.

Any knowledge of the order programmed in 64 and Melee of their icons, possibly that could be the order they were programed in.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

If there were more then 21 after the "Ds logo", "Touch!generation", whatever you want to call it...then wouldn't the theory be disproved because there would be no order thats kept...if it goes

SMASH
SMASH BROS.
SMASH BROS MELEE
SMASH BROS BRAWL

...and all thats left is a slot for GaW and new franchise and then where would the new franchises go??

Just a thought....

...what?...no?


...what?

The order goes by the title of the game for Smash Brawl.

I can't even counter this arguement. I barely understand it.

 

[papagenos]

the dojo may never show all the characters anyway...

so the remaining 2 symbols could just be the 2 remaining series they'll show befor brawl is released. also yes of course a symbol 22,23,ect... is possible.

my guess for the empty spots:

13.game and watch/golden sun?
19.pikmin?

 

[Xerroo]

OMG I JUST THOUGHT OF SOMETHING LOLOLOL.

What if icon 18 doesn't stand for Paltuna something but it just stands for Pit? Then if that's the case and the ABC garbage does hold true, then Olimar is as good as out.

 

[Strongside]

OMG I JUST THOUGHT OF SOMETHING LOLOLOL.

What if icon 18 doesn't stand for Paltuna something but it just stands for Pit? Then if that's the case and the ABC garbage does hold true, then Olimar is as good as out.

They could just add more you know. Gaw, don't you think that would be... logical? Seriously, why limit your minds to "Oh, they will only have two more franchises." Seriously, think about it.

 

[Lemon Drop]

the dojo may never show all the characters anyway...

so the remaining 2 symbols could just be the 2 remaining series they'll show befor brawl is released. also yes of course a symbol 22,23,ect... is possible.

my guess for the empty spots:

13.game and watch/golden sun?
19.pikmin?

WTF?

Number Being GOlden Sun?

Why would GOlden sun be in the Melee section?

Other than that, I do hope Pikmin is 19, or even Megaman.

They could just add more you know. Gaw, don't you think that would be... logical? Seriously, why limit your minds to "Oh, they will only have two more franchises." Seriously, think about it.

But what if there is only two more franchises?

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

But what if there is only two more franchises?

Personally, I think that would suck big time. Hopefully there will be many more franchises than just the two.

 

[Strongside]

But what if there is only two more franchises?

Then there are only two more. But for the love of God, think about it. Why in the world would Sakurai limit the character roster to Game and Watch and Pikmin or Golden Sun or what ever. That would honestly make the game about 15% less fun for me, and a lot of other people.

 

[RandomGuy42]

No-one has ever stated that the last 2 icons are the absolute last franchises to be seen in Brawl. That would just be stupid. The reason the list only goes up to 21 currently is because that's the highest we know of. It was the same when the highest we knew was Pit's, so the list only went up 'til 18. People asked the same question then about why it only went to 18, and I replied it was because it was the highest that we knew of, and that there would likely be more. Lo and behold, I was right. Sonic eventually came to be 20, and then the DS logo shocked everyone at 21.

 

[papagenos]

i just NOTCIED it isn't really alphabetical as much as veterans (1-14)then newcomers(15-21) in a semi-alphabetical way...

also yea they can always add more icon's for 22,23 ect...

oh and the dojo may NEVER show all the characters in brawl, probably just the ones they want us to know befor the game comes out. i'm sure sakurai just won't post many of the secret characters on the official website, ever. that way they're a secret until you get the game.

yea other non-official websites will tell us every character as soon as it's known but the dojo being the official site for the game will keep most of the games secrets a secret.

 

[Deleted member]

If Dyce's theory is correct, then there are 4 (if you still believe in Mega Man) possibilites:
Ogon no Taiyo (Golden Sun)
Pikumin (Pikmin)
Unknown Japanese Title (Project H.A.M.M.E.R.)
Rockman (Mega Man)

Hammer is just on hold, so its still a possibility

M-09 FOR BRAWL!!!

 

[M.K]

Haha I can't wait for the update that has a new icon # 58.

That'll throw us for a loop 0_o