Smash Back Room Weekly Character Discussions! FINAL UPDATES: Ness + Lucas. All done!!

[fkacyan]

It's Mewtwo.

How many times do I have to tell you it's Pichu before you believe me?

 

[KevinM]

I had it pegged as Roy

 

[PK-ow!]

With all the previous discussion considered, I'm saying Pit.

It's clear that we were supposed to suspect Sonic. Dedicated fanbase is really the first thought with the blue blur - people who like him, like him a lot and aren't giving up on him.

Everything in the hint is consistent with him, except one - Exactly as Nitrix said. Patience opens up something far beyond what was seen before.

With Sonic, people remained wholly speculative, saying "OMG speed!" but "laggy moves" and "Oh noez weak." Where there wasn't the belief his weaknesses would keep him low tier, there was no certainty that the way to play him was seen either. That is, no one (speaking in popular terms here) formed the belief "We've considered enough possible approaches to this character to say this character's limits are reached somewhere in a hybrid of playstyles W-X" - something that would need to be the common belief for it to be true now that "playstyle Y makes the character far better than was expected."

Sonic never made anyone certain that everything about him had been seen. With him, no one could be surprised with a new playstyle giving him new potential - a requirement of the hint.

Pit underwent a transformation. He had people worried he had no KO power, and his use seemed pretty obvious (his moveset is yet two-dimensional, come on). But no, the character does have something. And on the word of posters here, he is placing.

 

[blazefox]

I don't know /: The fun/ sticking it out part sounds like Lucario to me with his damage scale, but then again I was way off with the last two lol

It most likely sounds like Sonic. I've played very few pro Sonics who knew very well what to do, and although he has 1-2 possible KO moves, they've found ways to make them work.

 

[Sir Bedevere]

Wait a sec... I don't think Dazwa has ever said "It's Mewtwo." quite this much in the period of one hint...

And Panda has jokingly agreed with Dazwa's answer not once, but twice, which I do believe has never happened before.

It's been said that Lucario has replaced Mewtwo in Brawl, due to their somewhat similar characteristics.

So, is this Dazwa's and Panda's clever way of hinting that the character is actually Lucario?

...

NAHHHHHHHH They're not clever enough.

It's gotta be Mewtwo.

 

[litlwing]

i think by patience it means be patient in learning to use the character because sonic is not a pick up and run circles around your opponent kinda character it takes time to really get control of him and learn how to use some of his moves effectively, everyone i see use sonic for the first time bombs even after they'vd watched me or someone else play and try to do the stuff a sonic player would do

 

[da K.I.D.]

Update #19: ?????
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8/19/08

1. This character is definitely a fun one to play, and those who play this character seem quite dedicated to the character. 2. There aren't too many top players who use this character, but those who decide to main the character can generally use the character well, and you'll see a couple placing fairly high in tournaments (if not much higher, in some cases). 3. When the game first came out, many of the top players thought the character had much potential but the character's difficulty KO'ing was going to hold the character back from being too good. 4. However, those people have been proved wrong with time as the people who play the character have proven the character can definitely get KOs. 5. Also, patient users can make this character better than most people expected.

Can you guess this week's character?

I was originally going ot come in here and talk about why its NOT sonic, and the majority of my argument was going to be that while i do consider myself to be in the that group of "elite tourney placing sonic players" unless my opponent is within certain, very specific damage ranges, i still have issues with getting kills. but i still get them way earlier than i used to. so that point is null.
but i have to say that i think the hint isnt quite as specific as it could have been, seeing as all 5 points, to varying degrees, relate to Sonic, Pit and Lucario. Seeing as i still dont know ANY high placing Pits, except for maybe inui, and i dont even know how good he is. and i only know 2 high placing lucarios, and 1 is my doubles partner and 1 is Azen. but all 3 are definitely fun to play as. every single person ive ever seen take a stab at playing sonic says the same thing, "He's so fun, but he's so bad!"
i really cant make a decision but it has to be one of those 3

on a side note, can we please get a new writeup on the brokeness of MK, since MK was the 1st post, it seems slightly out of date, seeing as hes done nothing but become more broken since that writeup was done

 

[Kirby Magatsu]

Kirby is freaking good, not doomed to low tier...

 

[Tenki]

Wait a sec... I don't think Dazwa has ever said "It's Mewtwo." quite this much in the period of one hint...

And Panda has jokingly agreed with Dazwa's answer not once, but twice, which I do believe has never happened before.

One pokemon, two pokemon,

IT MAST BE POKEMAN TRAINER!!

but really, it'd be funny for SamuraiPanda to post a writeup of Mewtwo a few hours before changing it to the real topic of discussion.

 

[-Linko-]

It's Mewtario.

 

[Binx]

Lucario ten chars

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Wario. Definately Wario. As a Lucario mainer, I just don't think the hint quite applies to Lucario. But I could be wrong.

 

[Yaya]

Because Wario struggles with killing.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Because people THOUGHT Wario struggles with killing. Read the hint edit.

 

[ShadowLink84]

With Sonic, people remained wholly speculative, saying "OMG speed!" but "laggy moves" and "Oh noez weak." Where there wasn't the belief his weaknesses would keep him low tier, there was no certainty that the way to play him was seen either. That is, no one (speaking in popular terms here) formed the belief "We've considered enough possible approaches to this character to say this character's limits are reached somewhere in a hybrid of playstyles W-X" - something that would need to be the common belief for it to be true now that "playstyle Y makes the character far better than was expected."

Not really, thats only been recently.
Everyone hadf Sonic as a doomed to be bad character because they said his kill moves were too slow and his priority was horrid.
HIs priority wasn't as bad as people originally thought and whil his kill moves are slow, his gimping game is quite good.

I often hear wow you have a good Sonic I dind't expect that and its rather surprising considering that I thought people would be more open minded.
I do think that they aren't surprised persay but it may be that they are surprised ot see him doing better than originally thought.

Meh who knows I was thinking Peach.

Pit underwent a transformation. He had people worried he had no KO power, and his use seemed pretty obvious (his moveset is yet two-dimensional, come on). But no, the character does have something. And on the word of posters here, he is placing.

Except no one is surprised at how well he is doing. Despite having poor KO mopves everyone thought it wasn't bad ebcause of his aerial game, spacing game and other factors.
So he wasn't much of a surprise considering his placing.

 

[manhunter098]

Im going to have to say its probably Lucario.

Also, the hint still says the character has trouble with killing, but people can get around that and be more creative with their killing method (gimping basically). Also the patient thing fits really well, because a campy Lucario is incredibly tough to fight.

 

[Negi-Kun]

I'd say Lucario.

 

[XienZo]

It can't be Lucario; Azen counts as 10 top players all by himself.

 

[Luigi player]

It could be Sonic, but there would have to be something said about his speed though... so I'm not sure.

 

[infomon]

If Lucario is a possibility, then so are Ice Climbers.

ICs are underplayed, but those who main ICs play them very well, and are loyal. They require dedication and commitment; understanding all the intricacies of Nana, the subtle timings for desyncs, and of course the chaingrabs; that the top players are still figuring out. When Brawl was released, everyone knew ICs had potential, but some of their kill moves from Melee were nerfed (Dsmash and Bair.. Dsmash is never used for KOing anymore), and their chaingrabs didn't seem as certain or powerful.

Patience... learning how to carefully walk Nana into position for the next grab without accidentally throwing with Popo. Carefully dashdancing to get an appropriate response from both ICs. Meticulously dodging attacks all match, with both ICs, saving Nana where necessary..... waiting to get the grab. (Well that's not quite right, they have offensive options, but they're pretty punishable, especially depending on the match-up.)

Pay close attention to the hint:

When the game first came out, many of the top players thought the character had much potential but the character's difficulty KO'ing was going to hold the character back from being too good. However, those people have been proved wrong with time as the people who play the character have proven the character can definitely get KOs.

So the top players thought the character might have been too good aside from getting KOs. If I read it like that, I don't think it can be Sonic, Sheik, or even Pit. But the IC community, through lots of hard work, figured out a ton of ways to chaingrab into KOs, and found other tricks to land kills.

I dunno, it's not a very strong argument, but the ICs might explain why Panda was so worried he'd give it away. "Patience" is a nice way to dodge around "difficult-to-master instant-kill technique" Did everyone really expect ICs to have the 0-death inescapable grab combo possibilities as they do?

 

[Fearmy]

Dazwa practically gave you all the answer on a silver platter. I don't get whats so hard to understand.

10lolyoshi

 

[Johnthegalactic]

Either Sonic, Yoshi, or Wario..."Wah Wah Wah"-Wario

 

[Solaris1110]

I'm gonna say lucas again. It's always Lucas.

 

[Yinlong]

of course its mewtwo...
even samuraipanda admits it

 

[wWw Dazwa]

It's Mewtwo.

 

[Nubsondubs]

anyone else tired of the overused joke "oh it's mewtwo!" or "Roy?"

...because it's clearly pichu.

 

[Mmac]

It's Young Link you nubs! >: (

 

[chaindude]

If Lucario is a possibility, then so are Ice Climbers.

ICs are underplayed, but those who main ICs play them very well, and are loyal. They require dedication and commitment; understanding all the intricacies of Nana, the subtle timings for desyncs, and of course the chaingrabs; that the top players are still figuring out. When Brawl was released, everyone knew ICs had potential, but some of their kill moves from Melee were nerfed (Dsmash and Bair.. Dsmash is never used for KOing anymore), and their chaingrabs didn't seem as certain or powerful.

Patience... learning how to carefully walk Nana into position for the next grab without accidentally throwing with Popo. Carefully dashdancing to get an appropriate response from both ICs. Meticulously dodging attacks all match, with both ICs, saving Nana where necessary..... waiting to get the grab. (Well that's not quite right, they have offensive options, but they're pretty punishable, especially depending on the match-up.)

Pay close attention to the hint:


So the top players thought the character might have been too good aside from getting KOs. If I read it like that, I don't think it can be Sonic, Sheik, or even Pit. But the IC community, through lots of hard work, figured out a ton of ways to chaingrab into KOs, and found other tricks to land kills.

I dunno, it's not a very strong argument, but the ICs might explain why Panda was so worried he'd give it away. "Patience" is a nice way to dodge around "difficult-to-master instant-kill technique" Did everyone really expect ICs to have the 0-death inescapable grab combo possibilities as they do?

you win

 

[Napilopez]

Sonic.

Ok, I've guessed Sonic for the past three ones, but at least I do it with reason!

 

[Snowstalker]

Either Sonic, Yoshi, or Wario..."Wah Wah Wah"-Wario

Wario doesn't have trouble killing.

 

[Grunt]

Haey guise, hint #20 is up.

This character is really not fun to play as. they're pretty boring. This character does damage, and has a recovery. this character also has some strategy to them, and if used effectively, they can dominate. The main problem with this character is that they have a serious problem with Meta Knight, and usually can't revert to camping or approaching without getting destroyed 90% of the time. People generally place with this character, and if more people can master their strategy, they might place more.
-can you guess who next week's hint is?

...HMMMMMMM...

 

[The_Dyne]

Sonic.

Ok, I've guessed Sonic for the past three ones, but at least I do it with reason!

Quoted for agreement.

 

[BBQ°]

If Lucario is a possibility, then so are Ice Climbers.

ICs are underplayed, but those who main ICs play them very well, and are loyal. They require dedication and commitment; understanding all the intricacies of Nana, the subtle timings for desyncs, and of course the chaingrabs; that the top players are still figuring out. When Brawl was released, everyone knew ICs had potential, but some of their kill moves from Melee were nerfed (Dsmash and Bair.. Dsmash is never used for KOing anymore), and their chaingrabs didn't seem as certain or powerful.

Patience... learning how to carefully walk Nana into position for the next grab without accidentally throwing with Popo. Carefully dashdancing to get an appropriate response from both ICs. Meticulously dodging attacks all match, with both ICs, saving Nana where necessary..... waiting to get the grab. (Well that's not quite right, they have offensive options, but they're pretty punishable, especially depending on the match-up.)

Pay close attention to the hint:


So the top players thought the character might have been too good aside from getting KOs. If I read it like that, I don't think it can be Sonic, Sheik, or even Pit. But the IC community, through lots of hard work, figured out a ton of ways to chaingrab into KOs, and found other tricks to land kills.

I dunno, it's not a very strong argument, but the ICs might explain why Panda was so worried he'd give it away. "Patience" is a nice way to dodge around "difficult-to-master instant-kill technique" Did everyone really expect ICs to have the 0-death inescapable grab combo possibilities as they do?

this guy convinced me that it's Ice Climbers

 

[Nitrix]

It is not Lucario or ICs. They can both kill, and everybody always knew it.

It is not Sonic. He does not require patience in a match nearly as much as other characters.

I believe it is Pit. requires patience to play because you have to work harder than any other character to get kills. Furthermore, Pit players have to be patient in order to use his best moves like Angel Ring, because the positioning has to be perfect or else you'll be punished.

 

[Browny]

because mashing the b button until the other character approaches requires patience?

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Hm... This hint is harder than I expected it to be. I guess I know why. You'd have to understand the troubles this character has at higher levels of play. Just because someone has KO moves doesn't mean they can land them against a smart opponent!


Also, its Mewtwo.

 

[Tenki]

Ike!
wut.
10ki's

edit:

so, since everyone guessed Sonic right away, it probably won't be him? ;]

 

[Mmac]

But I don't know any well known completive Ike's....

 

[Samuelson]

I think that Next week could be Ness or Lucas.

 

[Mmac]

I think that Next week could be Ness or Lucas.

Nah. They both has easy to land Kill Moves