Smash Back Room Weekly Character Discussions! FINAL UPDATES: Ness + Lucas. All done!!

[FEJunkie]

Both Tink and Pikachu have good match ups against DDD, but pika fits the last one more. Plus, Tink can spam projectiles and doesnt really need to keep up with people, while pika's jolt is ground based, and cant take the likes of MK.

Thing is, Pika doesn't really have trouble keeping up with opponents due to the things he can do out of his Quick attack cancel. Tink on the other hand needs his space on the ground. If he doesn't keep the space people like MK and Marth are going to give him trouble because he can't get them off him unless he regains his space. Of course in matches where he does control the space the opponent is going to be hard pressed to get in and even then they will have trouble as Tink can get them off him.

This also applies to the situational part. The quick attack cancel can be used in pretty much any match-up and his down-smash and up-smash to thunder combos can be used as well. Tink has to have control of the stage or else hes going to have problems. His projectiles can be really effective in one match-up but can be useless against someone like MK who can get past them and really bother him. He also has to watch out for people with more range and faster attacks then him as once they get close Tink has few options.

Basically Tink fits the hint better than Pikachu.

 

[metaknightp0wns]

its olimar

 

[Tenki]

I believe it is... gOlimar

x]

Long range? Pikmin
Short range? C-stick (loljoke)
Tourney results not matching up to hype? Yes. There was a thread in Olimar discussions about it at one point :<

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

lol hes been already done i made that mistake too

edit: @underdogs22

 

[.selebu]

Well, i said Pikachu before a hint was up and the description fits him overall.
im gonna stick with Pika (yeah i wish, but anyways^^)

 

[Izaw]

Omg.. guys.. Marth ..

 

[ozg82889]

i hope its toon link. been waiting for his discussion to be made.

lucas' will also be nice as he is my second.

 

[Wave⁂]

Zamus.

HUGE range, bair kills, Plasma Whip (forward B) is crazy. Most importantly, everyone thought she was the new Sheik, thought she would own.

Toon Link doesn't have many tough matchups, does he?

 

[FEJunkie]

Toon Link doesn't have many tough matchups, does he?

He's kinda like Marth where he doesn't really have "bad" match-ups, but has a few disadvantages and alot of evens or slight advantages. In order to give Tink a hard time you need to be able to pressure him enough so he doesn't camp mid-range. Marth and MK can really give him trouble if he loses his spacing. As long as Tink has space he can do well in a match. So his good match-ups are generally against slow characters who can't pressure him well, while his even/bad match-ups are against characters who can get past his projectile spam and beat his ground game(in those instances he generally goes into the air as his air game is really good).

 

[Truthbetold]

Omg.. guys.. Marth ..

My thought exactly.
Praised like crazy, but where is he?

 

[Shök]

Hint:

Strong at close range with a great long range game and a surprisingly decent ability to KO, this character has had a lot of potential since Brawl was first released. But what happened? It seems like this character hasn't been holding up in tournaments, with a few exceptions, despite having only very few faults. Perhaps its because much of this character's strong points are situational, and very match-up dependent. This character has a few strong match-ups (watch out DeDeDe), but has to work hard to keep up with some other characters.


Okay Then. Let's Crack the code.

All The Characters who have not Been Reviewed:

Bowser
Donkey Kong
Fox
Ice Climbers
Ike
Kirby
Lucas
Mario
Olimar
Peach
Pikachu
Pit
Pokémon Trainer
Samus
Zero Suit Samus
Wario
Yoshi
Zelda
Sheik
Captain Falcon
Jigglypuff
Lucario
Luigi
Marth
Ness
Sonic
Toon Link

Now all those with a good long Range Game:

Fox
Ice Climbers
Lucas
Mario
Olimar
Pikachu
Pit
Pokémon Trainer
Samus
Zero Suit Samus
Zelda
Sheik
Lucario
Luigi
Ness
Toon Link

Surprising Moderate Kill Potential:

Lucas
Olimar
Pokémon Trainer
Zero Suit Samus
Zelda
Lucario
Luigi
Ness
Toon Link

Situational Strong Points:

Olimar
Zero Suit Samus
Lucario
Toon Link

Good Against Dedede:

Olimar
Zero Suit Samus
Toon Link

These are my 3 guesses.

 

[manhunter098]

Update #11: ?????

Strong at close range with a great long range game and a surprisingly decent ability to KO, this character has had a lot of potential since Brawl was first released. But what happened? It seems like this character hasn't been holding up in tournaments, with a few exceptions, despite having only very few faults. Perhaps its because much of this character's strong points are situational, and very match-up dependent. This character has a few strong match-ups (watch out DeDeDe), but has to work hard to keep up with some other characters.

Can you guess who next week's character will be?

Thanks to Overswarm (and Ankoku), as I've borrowed liberally from their posts to make the hint.



Alright, Im feeling less lazy now, so Ill put some real serious thought into it now.


So the characters need PROJECTILES, FAST close up moves, STRONG close up moves,

This character also may not get CGed by DDD, more of a in favor of point, but not nearly as definite as other criteria.



First applying projectiles:

Bowser
Fox
Ice Climbers
Kirby
Lucario
Lucas
Luigi
Mario
Ness
Olimar
Peach
Pikachu
Pit
Pokemon Trainer
Samus
Sheik
Toon Link
Yoshi
Zelda
Zero Suit Samus

Now out of these, those with a projectile game that can be considered good.

Fox, Ice Climbers, Lucario, Lucas, Ness, Olimar, Pikachu, Pit, Pokemon Trainer, Samus, Toon Link, Yoshi?, Zelda.

We can toss out Ice Climbers I feel, since they have a number of faults centered around the fact that you suck without both of them. Pokemon Trainer also goes, since he doesnt exactly have situation matchups, given his variety. Ill apply the no faults again at the end with more strictness. This bit was just for a couple of obvious exclusions.


Also to speed the process, every one of the aforementioned characters has some pretty fast moves that can make for a good close range game, so they all fit that pretty well.


Now we have:

Fox, Lucario, Lucas, Ness, Olimar, Pikachu, Pit, Samus, Toon Link, Yoshi?, Zelda.



Well I got lazy again. But now we have a list to work with of characters that could fit. I have the feeling it could be any one of these characters, but some are definitely a bit more likely than others.

Of notable mention. Pikachu, Zelda, Fox and Olimar cannot be CGed by DDD.

 

[Shök]

Omg.. guys.. Marth ..

Sure Hope Not.

1. NO Long Range Game.
2. Neutral with Dedede
3. Good Match-Ups Everywhere and matches are not based on them.

 

[JJR.O.B.]

I agree with grunt

Pika or TL

 

[Mr.Trite]

Toon Link

10lol

 

[Blackbelt]

Toon Link or one of the PK Boys.

 

[rinoH]

i thought it would be pit cuz he has amazing projectiles

 

[ForteEscape]

Toon Link
or Zelda.

 

[Kirby Redux]

I say Lucas/Ness or Olimar.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

I dont get the whole 10char thing... ive seen someone make a post like:

aseknl234u32blakehf983ywo4hlaw34

10char


___

as a response to something i said (i think it might have been about Yoshi not sucking as many people think).

and now, i see 10lol.

so an explanation please ? .

and nice list manhunter, i was too lazy to do that process

Fox, Lucario, Lucas, Ness, Olimar, Pikachu, Pit, Samus, Toon Link, Yoshi?, Zelda.

of these, as a DDD player, none of these are extremely dangerous to me. But i dont know much about TL and Zelda, I haven't fought many with my DDD. I guess it could be Lucario though, since he can juggle DDD pretty well (at least that's what i read from BC's lucario guide). To me, Fox is easy as i can use waddles to stop spam, and just grab him when he comes close. If he recovers with a Up B or Side B and does not grab onto the ledge but lands onto the stage, they can be easily punished with a fsmash or down B or such. Pikachu can be punishable too if he uses Down B or down smash and misses. Pit can be punishable too if he uses angel ring but doesn't hit. and I THINK waddles can stop spam, im not sure. And well, basicaly all these characters you can play well against by playing defensively, except for Lucario, Olimar, Ness, Lucas, may be TL or Zelda since i havent fought many of those 2. I dont think Samus will give DDD a hard time though, since waddles can block spam and cancel/counter a charged up B.

of those, im thinking lucario, lucas, ness, olimar, or may be TL and Zelda.

 

[Nelo Vergil]

I would have to guess Zelda, but could be Oli

 

[AlexX]

I say it's most likely Toon Link or Olimar.

Both are good in close and long-range combat, both have surprisingly decent KO ability (although some of their moves are situational), and both were considered to have a good amount of potential at the game's release. I haven't seen too many tournament results, but I know that neither has done particularly impressive in tournaments despite being conceivably high-tier. They can take on top-tier characters like Snake and Meta-Knight and live to tell the tale, but they have to work carefully in order to defeat them (Toon Link must keep proper spacing at all times while Olimar must make good use of his grab range and the various kinds of pikmin he ends up plucking).

 

[1312020]

Pit/TL/Pika

Pit just sorta jumped at me when I read it though.

10chairzards

 

[Browny]

argh this bugs me. everything points to zelda (full charged upsmash > dedede's upb LOL) but her long range game is just bad. dins fire rarely, if ever hits and she cant approach while spamming it, unlike TL who can run up to you with 3 different projectiles at once coming your way

 

[Elitem42]

It's definitely Zelda. Her long range game consists of the very strong din's fire (it can do 15 percent). She has great killing potential. Some of her kill moves are situational, mainly her sweet spot attacks such as her electric kick and the down aerial. And she's a great counter to Dedede since she can't be easily chain grabbed and her electric kicks are easier to pull off on him because of his size. Finally, she has surprising kill potential because she wasn't as strong in Melee as she is in Brawl.

 

[Jigglymaster]

It has to be olimar. Being good at first close and long. He is good against DDD, but he is found out to be a lot worse because he can be gimped in his recovery so easily. Olimar was considered to be top tier when the game first came out. But he kinda disapeared and I have'nt heard or seen anyting of him.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

It's Lucas or Zelda, no question.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Now that I think about it Lucas kind of applies to that too. Since he was considered to be really good and people are reallizing he really isn't that good.

 

[killaxmayne]

Lucas seems viable because Olimars are still seen at tourneys and are a presence but I hardly see any Lucas' nowadays. Pit may be it too.

 

[Kodachrome]

I highly doubt that it's zelda.

Zelda's sweetspotted aerials are never situational in a match against D3, elitem43. Powershield, do them straight off the ground and say goodbye. xD They come out so quickly you can just use them and the shield slide will send him out of punishment range.

Maybe Olimar...*doesn't know*

edit: ACK! what the heck is up with that sig?

 

[waks]

People are saying Olimar, Lucas, Zelda, etc. But Im gonna say its Marth XD (super uber wild guess x9000)

 

[ducky285]

Marth has a good mid-range game. He has practically no long-range game to speak of.

 

[waks]

Yeah I know. I was just thinking that Marth doesnt really have a hard time approaching from long range. And AFAIK, Marth is the hardest person that DDD can CG, I think. (Timing is more strict compared to others) So, I was thinking, that he doesnt have that much of a problem approaching campers, which make his long range game.. a good one? XD

And yeah, maybe its Olimar. But doesnt DDD own him off the stage?

 

[KingK]

I think it's Toon Link. I remember around Brawl's release people were lauding TL as an extremely solid character and easily top tier but since then he hasn't really shown himself to be dominant in that manner at all, though he is indeed definitely a solid character.

I think if it were Olimar the hint would have mentioned a "glaring" weakness (recovery), similar to the hint for Link.

 

[Blackshadow]

Definitely Toon Link this time. I can smell it.

 

[gallax]

Strong at close range with a great long range game and a surprisingly decent ability to KO, this character has had a lot of potential since Brawl was first released. But what happened? It seems like this character hasn't been holding up in tournaments, with a few exceptions, despite having only very few faults. Perhaps its because much of this character's strong points are situational, and very match-up dependent. This character has a few strong match-ups (watch out DeDeDe), but has to work hard to keep up with some other characters.

Pikachu first came to mind for me, especially since i main him . But the more i read into it, like great long range game, the more i think it has to be either Toon Link/Lucas/Pit/Olimar. Pika's has a descent long range game, since he only has one projectile. Toon Link can spam the double arrow along with the bombs and boomerang whle olimar has, imo, the best projectile in the game. Pit can use abuse his arrows while directinf them and lucas can pk pretty much anything. But, TL's advantages imo are not situational. They are strong no matter what. Same goes for pit. That leaves just olimar and lucas. I believe that this is talking about Lucas in the end though. Olimar can be gimped off the stage and the hint would have said something about this. Lucas' mathups are very situational. He ***** characters who have energy projectiles and other characters can simply **** him.

My guess: Lucas

 

[Cocoashadow]

Sounds like Toon Link to me...

 

[waks]

Now that Toon Link's been mentioned, I kinda have the same feeling that its probably him.

 

[marth marth marth]

ok, im going on a limb here, but im going to have to say TL

 

[The Real Inferno]

It cant be DK because he gets infinited by Dedede so having a good matchup against him is not true.

I like to think it's Toon Link here.