M.K
Level 55
#9 Gotta be Lucario's sphinxy ***.
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Smash Back Room Weekly Character Discussions! FINAL UPDATES: Ness + Lucas. All done!!
- Thread starter SamuraiPanda
- Start date
spacemanspiff
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2007
- Messages
- 249
olimar for 9 i'd have to say
Popertop
Smash Champion
How many times do we have to say it?
IT'S NOT LUCARIO.
And olimar is not underestimated or underplayed.
And I believe he doesn't have trouble against fast characters.
IT'S NOT LUCARIO.
And olimar is not underestimated or underplayed.
And I believe he doesn't have trouble against fast characters.
Tristan_win
Not dead.
Sounds a lot like Zelda to me...
Rapid_Assassin
Smash Master
Have you ever played against a good Metaknight?
And yes, he's underplayed. But in the same way as any mid tier would be underplayed. Most people are going to play top tier characters, and out of everyone else you'd probably find more mid tier players...
SuperRacoon
Smash Journeyman
Link, my guess for #9
Link on the basis of spacing, spam, and being weak against very fast characters, especially falco.
bombs and the boomerang are great against most campers. Links spam is a bit slow to abuse against really fast runners.
Link on the basis of spacing, spam, and being weak against very fast characters, especially falco.
bombs and the boomerang are great against most campers. Links spam is a bit slow to abuse against really fast runners.
Popertop
Smash Champion
Have you ever played a good Lucario?
He doesn't have that much trouble against metaknight, and the matchup is very close to even.
I don't beleive this is describing Lucario, but if it is, then the back room is underestimating him just a tad.
I don't know, I believe it's Link this time around.
Dabuz
Fraud at Smash
i must go 4 king dedede, underplayed, good spacing abilities (foward tilt and b), spams easilly against slow people but not good against fast ones and has a good learning curve, otherwise it must be ness/ lucas, for same reasons, also they both have glaring weaknesses, 3d has slow attacks except tilts, easily countered recovery, so so specials, a big target, ect.(which should be most used moves) while ness/lucas is light, low priority, slowness in all areas (especially lucas), can't ko, has trouble against characters that are small and ground also because they are better as air fighters (truer with ness), and have trouble koing
goodoldganon
Smash Champion
I guess Samus. Her Z-Air can be spammed on much slower characters, but the fast ones like Falcon, Sonic, and Fox are tough to keep at bay. The Z-air is also on of the best spacers in the game, but it takes a while to learn how to place it and use it effectively. She can also spam her uncharged shot and homing missiles to further slow down the slower half of the cast. But she has no killing moves and they are tough to land. She also still has a sucky roll and since we lost wavedashing and she is slow in the air it is sometimes tough to get back into a safer zone for her.
? DDD is not underplayed and that's just well known fact.
nyhustler208
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2007
- Messages
- 212
i think its olimar
Ukemi
Smash Apprentice
Is #9 Olimar? Anyways, I really appreciate having a little window to see what the Back Room is doing. It's nice to get a glimpse back stage and really understand what the Back Room is. Thanks for the thread!
Rapid_Assassin
Smash Master
My point with that is in response to someone who said "olimar doesn't have problems vs. fast characters" Metaknight is one of the fastest characters in the game, and one of Olimar's hardest matchups. I'm not saying that all slower characters have problems vs. MK, since that's far from the truth.
Blade Knight
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2007
- Messages
- 722
Snake, Olimar, Yoshi, Donkey, and Triple D the Mighty Duck fit that description.
Can't you read? They already did Meta Knight.
Smash is FAR from a traditional fighter.
...Your logic makes sense. However, towards the end, Snake, ROB, and G&W were all constantly chosen until their reveal. Ya never know...everyone is saying link olimar wario. last time everyone said wario and it was a totaly unexpected character ganondorf. Ok since everyone is saying these characters i am going to use logic and make my guess mario. Yep. spammable projectile(lol) .
Even? Lucario wrecks MK. He outranges in the air, wrecks him on the ground, can spam him if need be (God, I hate this strategy for Lucario, but meh.) Also, Aura Sphere goes through both the Mach Tornado and the lesser-used Drill Rush/Triple Dash. Also, Lucario completely capitalizes on MK's need of high damage for kills, as well as being mid-weight and very difficult to edgeguard.
...Lucario's slow now? That's news to me.
*imagines Lucario with Ganon's moveset*
Popertop
Smash Champion
Well, now. That's great news.
Except that only a half or fully charged AS will go through his tornado depending on his Aura.
And you can't go around spamming those as quick as you could BAS, which sadly, doesn't go through either if my memory serves me correctly. Oh man, I wish that was true. >.>
Now let's not get to hasty. *imagines Longchu followed by Longcario*
ROFL OMG!!!!!!!!
Also, Longcat is Looooooong.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/joeyblue/longcat4.jpg
Rapid_Assassin
Smash Master
No he's not. He is slower than MK though.
House M.D.
Smash Apprentice
it's zelda, she fits perfectly.
No MK's stupid enough to Spam Mach Tornado/Drill Rush to the degree where you'd feel tempted to spam BAS to stop it lest they take one of Lucario's freakishly awesome Forward aerials to the faceplate. Forward Air, Lucario's best combo move plows right through the Tornado and Drill Rush (let 'em button mash until their fingers go sore. Lucario has magic feet.) I believe Bair, Dair, and Uair also go through it due to the magic feet, but don't quote me on that. I know that Fair does, though. Also, MK's extremely weak to Star KO's against Lucario due to weight, so a Double Team at high percents is all it takes to almost effortly score insanely low % kills. But this isn't a MK vs Lucario matchup thread, so maybe we should go back to the topic at hand, which is guessing the latest character, who most believe is Link, although Olimar is gaining a slow but steady following.
My only problem with Olimar is that he's a very good character overall, and his recovery REALLY shouldn't be THAT big of a deal to his game. Hell, look at Melee Falco.
MiraiGen
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2006
- Messages
- 710
Link doesn't seem that likely - his sword has the same hit potential from all areas, so spacing isn't that important. It's possible that spacing doesn't necessarily mean "Staying away from the opponent."
But I still really think it's Zelda.
Honestly, just think about it. Her lightning kicks need to place on the Heel to do anything useful, but they're fast enough you can dish them out on a rapid basis. The same applies to her Ftilt, NeutA, and DashA. Din's Fire spam requires you release it in good timing depending on how long you've held it, a mind game in and of itself. None of her attacks are very laggy but she needs to sweetspot them before they actually are something useful.
Magic has high priority but it's got some delicate placement. Hence spacing.
The fast characters (okay just Metaknight
) can whip her around a bit for fun because she's not nearly fast enough to keep up despite not being laggy.
Glaring weaknesses? I dunno.
Hey, a thought just occurred. What if it's DK?
I mean, really, spacing is essential because of how big he is. One of the big flaws with Bowser and DK is their size making them comboable from some of the smaller characters.
Plus, it fits. He can spam all over slow characters (tilts and some aerials aren't that slow), and can rock people out of spamming, but he's not quick enough to top the faster characters. Plus, I can totally see Zelda being in the high tiers but DK not even close.
Man this one is very ambiguous.
But I still really think it's Zelda.
Honestly, just think about it. Her lightning kicks need to place on the Heel to do anything useful, but they're fast enough you can dish them out on a rapid basis. The same applies to her Ftilt, NeutA, and DashA. Din's Fire spam requires you release it in good timing depending on how long you've held it, a mind game in and of itself. None of her attacks are very laggy but she needs to sweetspot them before they actually are something useful.
Magic has high priority but it's got some delicate placement. Hence spacing.
The fast characters (okay just Metaknight
) can whip her around a bit for fun because she's not nearly fast enough to keep up despite not being laggy. Glaring weaknesses? I dunno.
Hey, a thought just occurred. What if it's DK?
I mean, really, spacing is essential because of how big he is. One of the big flaws with Bowser and DK is their size making them comboable from some of the smaller characters.
Plus, it fits. He can spam all over slow characters (tilts and some aerials aren't that slow), and can rock people out of spamming, but he's not quick enough to top the faster characters. Plus, I can totally see Zelda being in the high tiers but DK not even close.
Man this one is very ambiguous.
On the bright side, this forum actually goes out and edits that sort of crap. I appreciate the effort on your part SP.
KratosAurion192
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2006
- Messages
- 822
I was actually thinking Link. Not many real players of the man, making him underrated. He just flat out needs his spaming of projectiles and if anything can shut it down he is more or less screwed...Link doesn't seem that likely - his sword has the same hit potential from all areas, so spacing isn't that important. It's possible that spacing doesn't necessarily mean "Staying away from the opponent."
But I still really think it's Zelda.
Honestly, just think about it. Her lightning kicks need to place on the Heel to do anything useful, but they're fast enough you can dish them out on a rapid basis. The same applies to her Ftilt, NeutA, and DashA. Din's Fire spam requires you release it in good timing depending on how long you've held it, a mind game in and of itself. None of her attacks are very laggy but she needs to sweetspot them before they actually are something useful.
Magic has high priority but it's got some delicate placement. Hence spacing.
The fast characters (okay just Metaknight
Glaring weaknesses? I dunno.
Hey, a thought just occurred. What if it's DK?
I mean, really, spacing is essential because of how big he is. One of the big flaws with Bowser and DK is their size making them comboable from some of the smaller characters.
Plus, it fits. He can spam all over slow characters (tilts and some aerials aren't that slow), and can rock people out of spamming, but he's not quick enough to top the faster characters. Plus, I can totally see Zelda being in the high tiers but DK not even close.
Man this one is very ambiguous.
He has a ton of potential, he just needs dedicated players to try to nullify the glaring weaknesses he does have.
MiraiGen
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2006
- Messages
- 710
Totally agreed about Link but I still don't think it fits.
The Master Sword's disjointed hitbox makes it so spacing isn't really that big of an issue, and it's certainly not 'essential.' Maybe if it was about "projectile spam" or "frequent used of B moves" I'd agree but somehow it just doesn't strike me that Link fits the hint.
The Master Sword's disjointed hitbox makes it so spacing isn't really that big of an issue, and it's certainly not 'essential.' Maybe if it was about "projectile spam" or "frequent used of B moves" I'd agree but somehow it just doesn't strike me that Link fits the hint.
KratosAurion192
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2006
- Messages
- 822
I guess if we had a solid definiton of spam and spacing we could tell, but the it really wouldn't ambigous now would it?
Popertop
Smash Champion
I was just saying I wish a BAS went through it. That would be so cool.
Fair really goes through it? There's just better and better news for Lucario here.....
I think Bair would if it's a retreating Bair 'cuz the hitbox stays out so loooooong like longcat....
Anyways, I don't think Olimar is that likely.
He's not anywhere near underestimated enough.
Dream Chaser
Smash Journeyman
By the time this list has been completed, the original character profiles may need to be adjusted.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
But it's not the sword that the spacing is really required for, it's the projectiles.
All that is true but, look at what you said afterwards...But I still really think it's Zelda.
Honestly, just think about it. Her lightning kicks need to place on the Heel to do anything useful, but they're fast enough you can dish them out on a rapid basis. The same applies to her Ftilt, NeutA, and DashA. Din's Fire spam requires you release it in good timing depending on how long you've held it, a mind game in and of itself. None of her attacks are very laggy but she needs to sweetspot them before they actually are something useful.
Magic has high priority but it's got some delicate placement. Hence spacing.
The fast characters (okay just Metaknight
It's all or nothing. Also, there's no way Zelda isn't gonna be in the higher tiers, she just has too many advantageous match-ups.
There are two categories which she loses out on,
Problem...
He has no solution to ranged spammers, there's no way he can outspam them period because it's near impossible for him to approach.
BigRick
Smash Master
Yea I think more and more that it could be Zelda...oubviously cause she has the reflector and her ability to spam din
her glaring weaknesses could be the fact she's slow and the not so flexible recovery, and she could be underrated in the eyes of the SBR (personnaly I think that she's good... and maybe the SBR thinks that we think that she sucks lol)
1. Zelda
2. Samus
3. Link
edit: also underrated could mean mid-high tier material
her glaring weaknesses could be the fact she's slow and the not so flexible recovery, and she could be underrated in the eyes of the SBR (personnaly I think that she's good... and maybe the SBR thinks that we think that she sucks lol)
1. Zelda
2. Samus
3. Link
edit: also underrated could mean mid-high tier material
Zelda has way too many advantageous matchups, as stated earlier. She is no where NEAR underrated nor underplayed due to her quite obvious buffs.
Strangely, not all disjointed hitboxes go through it, though, which is why I can't remember. For example, Dedede's ftilt doesn't despite its godly range.
Anyways, to support Link more, he's a great spammer, but some people think he can be outspammed. That is true, but his standing and crouching animation messes with other spammers.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
The thing is, Zelda has an awesome defensive game, she forces the opponent to approach so lack of speed isn't really a glaring factor, especially when you consider that she has some very fast, high-priority attacks, and her ^b for alternative movement. Also, in general, Zelda lacks a weakness to fast characters.
Samus again, doesn't really have the fast character weakness. True, she's weak to a number of fast characters, but it's not the speed that fundamentally messes with her because she has answers to the weaknesses that the speed presents. The problem is, some fast characters have answers to these tactics. Again, that's the reason why she kills sonic.
Question, what factors does Link lack? Because it seems to me that he has every single attribute that was presented in the hint.
ParanoidDrone
Smash Master
I think Lucas can fit the criteria in the hint (lol bias). Spacing is a massive part of his game, he has PSI Magnet and fsmash to absorb/reflect projectiles respectively, and larger characters like DK are a PK Fire spamfest for him. But now that he (and Ness) were subjected to the grab-release fiasco, he'll likely never see the higher tiers.
All of the above could theoretically be applied to Ness, I guess, but he's so aerial combo-centric that idk if he matches the spacing point.
All of the above could theoretically be applied to Ness, I guess, but he's so aerial combo-centric that idk if he matches the spacing point.
Annhialator Zero
Smash Apprentice
I'm personally betting Lucario
BigRick
Smash Master
Link doesnt lack any hence why I put him on the list.
My point is that it could be any1 of these chars. Yes Link is a good guess but dont be surprised if it isn't his name that comes up.
Binx
Smash Master
Ice Climbers maybe?
MiraiGen
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2006
- Messages
- 710
That's the one thing that makes me think it might not be Zelda, as I can't place a finger on weaknesses that are both "Glaring" and make people not want to play her.
Well, yeah, but it just doesn't really fit in my head that they'd use 'spacing' (Which to me has always meant 'distance from the opponent at close quarters') to mean 'projectile spam'.
Like, spacing is much more crucial to Zelda and Captain Falcon and Marth than it is for Link and Zsamus and Samus, IMO. I won't deny that 'spacing' could mean projectiles, but somehow I don't think that's the way they'd talk about it, just from what I've seen of the discussion thus far and the history of SMYN.
Of course I could be completely talking out my ***.