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Smash Back Room Weekly Character Discussions! FINAL UPDATES: Ness + Lucas. All done!!

Major4now

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
18
Wolf is a character that has been getting bad rep recently due to the wave of Blaster/f-smash spamming seen online. IMO Wolf is a very well-balanced character. His straight forward play style may be left behind as AT''s develop but for now he's pretty good.

Positive Aspects: Nice solid weight. A little heavier than Falco I believe making him hard to KO
Speed. Can definitely travel fast enough to get to the opponent
Well Ranged attacks. F-Smash and D-Smash have very large hit boxes.
Fast Faller
Great KO moves. If not spammed Dsmash kills at like 115. Also Bair and fsmash
Can Camp. Blaster with bayonet and a reflector

Negative Aspects: Fast Faller
Poor Recovery
Poor Edgegaurding
Average throws with little to no set up


I personally main G&W but probably going to switch to Wolf because if used correctly he is an animal. The game just needs to develop a bit more

As for tiers I'm predicting Mid-High or even High-Mid. Tiers are very close this game and will probably not matter much in tournys
 

purekorea

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
470
Location
Orlando(UCF)
Kinda hoping for G&W for next week he's so weird to play against. Maybe some BR insight can help with that x.x

either that or the fat penguin <.<
 

Frames

DI
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
2,248
Location
UCF (Orlando, FL)
Kinda hoping for G&W for next week he's so weird to play against. Maybe some BR insight can help with that x.x

either that or the fat penguin <.<
Yea i would agree, next week definitely sounds like a game and watch week. If not him, maybe olimar, he's pretty weird.

As far as Wolf goes, as a R.O.B. player, I find him the easiest of the space animals, since his recovery is so easy to gimp with ROB. I think that Wolf's high placings recently is just because people don't really know how to play against him. I think that he's a good character, but eventually he'll just reach his limit. His metagame is pretty one-dimensional, and i don't think there will be much variation among other wolf players.
 

Card

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 19, 2001
Messages
1,237
Location
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
is there a hint for next week?
What the.... Why do people care so much more about guessing the hint rather than the actual topic at hand? When it was Meta Knight, there was about I would say 2/3rd's of the posts were just people guessing the hint, and the other small portion actually contributing to the discussion about Meta Knight.... Already now with Wolf it's looking to be the exact same thing. Some people we're even discussing Wario for some reason....

** sigh **


Anyways, I'll contribute my thoughts on the discussion as well.

Wolf as it stands is also a very solid character. Its most probable that he will be guaranteed to be part of the "better half" of the roster of characters. Although as some people have said, I do not believe that he will be as HIGH as people are placing him (Some even go as far as to place him amongst the Top 4 in the game).

Many of Wolf's animations and attacks are very unorthodox and awkward looking especially in terms of range. I don't mean this in a negative sense, since it can actually catch quite a few people off-guard. The most notable being his F-Smash, which strikes near instantaneously and has a ridiculous forward range. This keeps a constant "Danger Zone" a couple of feet in front & behind Wolf at all times, which makes approaching him on the ground much more risky. Either way, approaching Wolf is almost always done in the Air, simply due to the fact that if you aren't avoiding his amazing Blaster, you are avoiding his F-Smash, and if you manage to get past those, you are avoiding his F-Tilt, Shine, and any other fast-hitting out of shield combination of attacks. For a Wolf player, knowing that their opponents main form of approach will be the air, he's at an immediate advantage, and can counter-them appropriately.

I have a feeling that Wolf will shift into becoming an extremely defensive and campy character, if he isn't already. While he does have a variety of ways to approach, none of them are as efficient as his defensive play style, which when played correctly can be very hard to break. Right now many Wolf players seem to go on the offense continuously, while this has proven to be somewhat successful, I feel that the real success with Wolf will be focusing on his defensive play style (or at least a strong balance between both offense and defensive play styles). I think the more players start to abuse his Blaster (In the same way Falco from Melee abuses his) the better Wolf players will rise amongst the ranks. But Wolf players will need to constantly "reinvent" their defensive play style, because the more and more we play Smash Brawl, the easier it is becoming to get passed campy players.

Wolf has a lot of neat tricks that he can do with his Shine, and it really opened up a world of approaches that he might not of had otherwise. Just the fact that Wolf has an inherent side-step attached in his Shine shows how well it can be used defensively. Unfortunately for him, he lost out in the speed department of the Space Animals, so getting some quick trash-kills using some properly timed off-stage Shines or D-Air spikes tends to be somewhat difficult. But this really shouldn't phase Wolf players, because Wolf has a variety of killing moves which he can perform on stage without too much worry.

It goes without saying that Wolf's recovery tends to be one of his weakest points. With the correct set of counter-picked stages, opponents to Wolf can really take advantage of mistakes that might come up during recovery. Lylat Cruise in particular strikes me as a stage where I have seen wolves get stuck underneath the tip of the wing countless times.

With that being said and done, probably the best way I could sum this up is by continuing what Overswarm said; "It will take a lot of patience to play Wolf well."
 

AmericanBison

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
35
First I think everyone who didn't guess wolf & olimar are funny. The most specific hint: bad recovery, and they are the bottom of the spectrum.

Everyone has been right so far. I also wanted to point out his great air game. I think all of them come out so fast for how much strength you get. One of my favorite things to do with him is short hop then dair on a shielding opponent. His f-tilt has a surprising amount of range, and stun. His camping potential can help him stay in the middle of the stage. The areas of intimidation is the best thing he has. Like the space between him and the end of the f-smash. When I see people only doing f-smash and his gun I think of Marth in SSBM. You could spam the f-smash too, and it was easy. I think wolf is a character that is great competetivly, and casually. And if you can use your reflector well for the dodge, you can give the heavy characters so much trouble. That one attack is a big counter vs the very heaviest. Over all I think he is really fast for the damage, knockback, and range he has. I see him as having more strengths than weaknesses. Although some of his attacks are clunky, and are punishable, they come out fast enough to make up for that.

I don't think he is a hard character to get familiar with, it is just the recovery that takes practice. I am thinking somewhere in high. Not mid, and I would be shocked if he was in top. I think atleast in the top half of the cast.
 

TheStig

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
1,260
Location
Gotham City
What the.... Why do people care so much more about guessing the hint rather than the actual topic at hand? When it was Meta Knight, there was about I would say 2/3rd's of the posts were just people guessing the hint, and the other small portion actually contributing to the discussion about Meta Knight.... Already now with Wolf it's looking to be the exact same thing. Some people we're even discussing Wario for some reason....

** sigh **


Anyways, I'll contribute my thoughts on the discussion as well.

Wolf as it stands is also a very solid character. Its most probable that he will be guaranteed to be part of the "better half" of the roster of characters. Although as some people have said, I do not believe that he will be as HIGH as people are placing him (Some even go as far as to place him amongst the Top 4 in the game).

Many of Wolf's animations and attacks are very unorthodox and awkward looking especially in terms of range. I don't mean this in a negative sense, since it can actually catch quite a few people off-guard. The most notable being his F-Smash, which strikes near instantaneously and has a ridiculous forward range. This keeps a constant "Danger Zone" a couple of feet in front & behind Wolf at all times, which makes approaching him on the ground much more risky. Either way, approaching Wolf is almost always done in the Air, simply due to the fact that if you aren't avoiding his amazing Blaster, you are avoiding his F-Smash, and if you manage to get past those, you are avoiding his F-Tilt, Shine, and any other fast-hitting out of shield combination of attacks. For a Wolf player, knowing that their opponents main form of approach will be the air, he's at an immediate advantage, and can counter-them appropriately.

I have a feeling that Wolf will shift into becoming an extremely defensive and campy character, if he isn't already. While he does have a variety of ways to approach, none of them are as efficient as his defensive play style, which when played correctly can be very hard to break. Right now many Wolf players seem to go on the offense continuously, while this has proven to be somewhat successful, I feel that the real success with Wolf will be focusing on his defensive play style (or at least a strong balance between both offense and defensive play styles). I think the more players start to abuse his Blaster (In the same way Falco from Melee abuses his) the better Wolf players will rise amongst the ranks. But Wolf players will need to constantly "reinvent" their defensive play style, because the more and more we play Smash Brawl, the easier it is becoming to get passed campy players.

Wolf has a lot of neat tricks that he can do with his Shine, and it really opened up a world of approaches that he might not of had otherwise. Just the fact that Wolf has an inherent side-step attached in his Shine shows how well it can be used defensively. Unfortunately for him, he lost out in the speed department of the Space Animals, so getting some quick trash-kills using some properly timed off-stage Shines or D-Air spikes tends to be somewhat difficult. But this really shouldn't phase Wolf players, because Wolf has a variety of killing moves which he can perform on stage without too much worry.

It goes without saying that Wolf's recovery tends to be one of his weakest points. With the correct set of counter-picked stages, opponents to Wolf can really take advantage of mistakes that might come up during recovery. Lylat Cruise in particular strikes me as a stage where I have seen wolves get stuck underneath the tip of the wing countless times.

With that being said and done, probably the best way I could sum this up is by continuing what Overswarm said; "It will take a lot of patience to play Wolf well."

This thread is used to discuss the idea of the SBR in general, that's why people were guessing who was next. If you want to discuss the character, you go to the linked thread.
 

GuiltyPleasure

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
36
Every person ive played that uses wolf spams the foward and back smashes negating there ability to effectively KO, even if they just stopped using the foward smash and relied on aerials more then wolf could be quite the competitor, also i'd say the next character is ?Game & Watch?
 

TrueRedemption

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 26, 2007
Messages
278
Third is Peach.

Also great idea BRers, guess thats what your there for =)
I would consider organizing a similar idea for match-ups in time, once we reach a common consensus of each character's strengths weaknesses and abilities.


-True
 

NessOnett

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 15, 2007
Messages
365
Location
NY
Seems like Zelda is the next character, recovery and mindgames, that is screaming her ^B. Properties on most of her attacks have changed(power boosts and bigger hitboxes). And her smashes are among the strongest in the game(at least for so light a character). She has changed a lot from her melee incarnation which was deemed of little usefulness and now she is known as a force to be reckoned with.
 

aznxk3vi17

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
71
Location
Virginia
Our first discussion on a veteran! This veteran has undergone some drastic changes since Melee, although most of the attacks may look the same, the properties are much different. The combination of possibly some of the most devastating smash attacks, great mindgames, and an awesome recovery make this character tough to handle. Actually, what disadvantages does this character even have?
Must be Game and Watch. Zelda's Up+B is not an awesome recovery. It travels far, but it is still unwieldy and prone to hitting the stage as opposed to the edge. Game and Watch's moveset has no glaring weaknesses, combining high priority aerials with no lag, with ground smashes that are both some of the strongest and most spammable (see the up and down smash, respectively).
 

FishkeeperTimmay!

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 12, 2006
Messages
673
Location
Pembroke, Ontario, Canada
Next week is going to be Pikachu.

All his moves LOOK the same, but either lost a lot of lag, or gained vacuum effects.

His smashes kill, period.

Quick Attack is a great recovery, probably amongst the best. It also can cancel nowadays = stupidly good movement tricks/mindgames.

Pikachu is also a TRUE veteran, as he's been in all 3 games. ^^

I hope I'm right. >.>
 

aznxk3vi17

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
71
Location
Virginia
Game and Watch would be good choice for next week but its very possible it's Pikachu as well
While improved, I wouldn't call Pikachu's smashes DEVASTATING. At most, they're useful and powerful. His up smash got nerfed a lot. Game and Watch's smashes all have their strengths. Also, I don't really think the properties on Pikachu's moves changed much, really. Not nearly as much as G&W.
 

N.A.G.A.C.E

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
2,919
Location
NY (LI)
i wonder if #3 is zelda her recovery does go far but can be gimpable but besides that she has many of the same moves but got a lot better or maybe kirby
 

chili

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
52
#3 couldn't be G&W or they would have mentioned something about his improved aerials...
 

aznxk3vi17

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
71
Location
Virginia
most of the attacks may look the same, the properties are much different.
This would probably encompass his aerials. True, his neutral air is no longer the parachute, but all of his other aerials are otherwise identical in appearance to the melee version. However, they are vastly improved. Back air has insane priority and duration, down air has the instant downward momentum along with almost 0 lag upon landing, and the box is as good as ever. Neutral air comes out quickly and is great when your opponent is right on top of you.
 

DaRedFalcon

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
1
Its going to be peach most of her attacks look the same but they're a lot different since melee.
Plus she has a crazy recovery since she can hover in the air.

And game & watch isn't even a veteran.
 

Rhyfelwyr

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 17, 2007
Messages
649
Location
Michigan
I'm going to say the next character is Ganondorf. Attacks that look the same, but are different. Devastating smash attacks. Side-B is one of the best mindgames, and there's also U-tilt and B neutral... I think the commit about what weaknesses he could possibly have is a joke.
 

Kirby M.D.

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 28, 2006
Messages
320
It's either Pika or G&W. Both have gotten buffed out the arse, GAW has Up-B and Bitey (Bair) tricks, Pika has QAC. Both have really nice smashes and recoveries, and very few weaknesses.

On Wolf: he's a beast on the platform. He has nice spacing ability with his tilts and FSmash, SH Aerials can make for good crossups and shield pressure, and the blaster is amazing. Even with scarring and Side B cancelling, his off-stage recovery leaves something to be desired. He reminds me of Dr. Mario in Melee; his camping game is a large part of his game, and sets up a versatile platform game. Once he's off the stage however, he's kinda screwed.
 

Grandeza

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
4,035
Location
Brooklyn,New York
I'm going to say the next character is Ganondorf. Attacks that look the same, but are different. Devastating smash attacks. Side-B is one of the best mindgames, and there's also U-tilt and B neutral... I think the commit about what weaknesses he could possibly have is a joke.
I hardly consider ganondorf insane recovery.
 

EVE

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
17
Location
Ohio
While improved, I wouldn't call Pikachu's smashes DEVASTATING. At most, they're useful and powerful. His up smash got nerfed a lot. Game and Watch's smashes all have their strengths. Also, I don't really think the properties on Pikachu's moves changed much, really. Not nearly as much as G&W.
Have you seen Pikachu's dsmash? It's freaking **** dude. Huge buff. His bair got buffed, too. Most of his attacks are way better than before.
 

Kenpachi

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
133
Location
Corvallis
I think the next character is Marth. He's got a good recovery and only one of his moves has changed visually (neutral B. The side B looks flashier, but is the same with more speed).

Wolf is hard for me to play against at the moment... Its a real good thing that my friend can't handle MK's tornado move, heh. I'm probably going to give the entire wolf thread a look over to learn more.

Kenpachi
 

Wuss

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
Messages
2,477
Location
Listening to Music (DC)
I would have to agree with the next character being pikachu. his bair is really different. and his recovery is really good as it has been before. Not to mention he is just soo good in brawl.
 

Crizthakidd

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 1, 2007
Messages
2,619
Location
NJ
MK owns a good deal of good MK players space really well and edguard like a beast.

wolf has a lot of good ledge tactics his recovery kidna sucks but...



for the 3rd week are u guys doing kirby O.o
 

Eddy01741

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Messages
55
So basically, the limiting factors here are:
HIgh or Top tier
Veteran
Similar moveset (but played differently)
Barely any weaknesses


Okay, the only characters that follow the description that I can think of are Marth and Pika, except Marth sorta fails the part about playing differently, but fufills the "barely any weaknesses" part very well. So it's one of those two I think.
 
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