Smash 4 - Weight Rankings

[Chiroz]

That'll make Bowser Jr. a very interesting character to fight against considering his hitbox is so tiny.

I think a lot of Jr. mains will be trying to influence where their opponents can hit Jr. so that they can hit the car.

We still need to understand what happens when a move hits both hitboxes. That might be crucial for how you approach or play as and against Bowser Jr.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

We still need to understand what happens when a move hits both hitboxes. That might be crucial for how you approach or play as and against Bowser Jr.

I just bowser fsmashed Jr. (has hitboxes that overlaps both zones.)

He took the 1.15x damage, so the 1.15 zone has priority.

 

[Chiroz]

I just bowser fsmashed Jr. (has hitboxes that overlaps both zones.)

He took the 1.15x damage, so the 1.15 zone has priority.

Thanks for that .

Truthfully Aerodome has basically singlehandledly datamined all the information on this game. At least all the information regarding numeric values.

 

[Starbound]

Does Palutena's Lightweight special have a damage multiplier as well? From what you've said before, we know it doesn't actually make her lighter, but increases the damage she takes, so I'm curious if she has a multiplier as well.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Does Palutena's Lightweight special have a damage multiplier as well? From what you've said before, we know it doesn't actually make her lighter, but increases the damage she takes, so I'm curious if she has a multiplier as well.

Yes, it was about 1.2x iirc

 

[Indigo Jeans]

I've retested using equipment that lowers my damage output so I do proper damage to Jr.

Bowser Jr.'s real weight is 115

Not tryna bust your chops here but how does equipment work? I mean I know it applies multipliers to certain character properies but how do you find out the multipliers? Like for example to get "true damage" on Bowser Jr.s x1.15 hitbox you'd need equipment that adds a 20/23 multiplier to your attacks. It'd be interesting to see a list of equipment and their multipliers.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

View attachment 25819

Pretend this is Smash 4 Bowser Jr.

If you hit the yellow zone, your damage is multiplied by 0.88. If you hit the blue zone, it's multiplied by 1.15

If you hit the bob-omb, it explodes. ;__;


Edit: If you're asking what takes priority if you hit both zones, I'm not sure. Probably the blue zone.

"Crouch canceling" for Bowser Jr. confirmed.

Well not really, but would be funny if he could use his crouch to help him negate damage, since he kind of hides in the Clown Car.

Edit: And if that's true, Down Tilt and Down Smash would be kind of valuable for Bowser Jr. (Not sure about Down B tho)

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Not tryna bust your chops here but how does equipment work? I mean I know it applies multipliers to certain character properies but how do you find out the multipliers? Like for example to get "true damage" on Bowser Jr.s x1.15 hitbox you'd need equipment that adds a 20/23 multiplier to your attacks. It'd be interesting to see a list of equipment and their multipliers.

I'm not sure how equipment works, I gather that it adds/subtracts damage (possibly by a percent?).

Before testing though I made sure that it was as close to 9% as possible. By hitting Jr.'s 1.15x hurtbox 10 times, i confirmed that the damage the move did was more than 9% and less than 9.09%, which is close enough for me.

I don't think it affects BKB or KBG because otherwise smash run KO percentages would be at pretty much 0%.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

I'm not sure how equipment works, I gather that it adds/subtracts damage (possibly by a percent?).

Before testing though I made sure that it was as close to 9% as possible. By hitting Jr.'s 1.15x hurtbox 10 times, i confirmed that the damage the move did was more than 9% and less than 9.09%, which is close enough for me.

I don't think it affects BKB or KBG because otherwise smash run KO percentages would be at pretty much 0%.

Awesome. Though it seems sort of odd, from a casual gameplay perspective, that they would make equipments' effects additive rather than multiplicative. Still interesting.

 

[MattTheGameFreak]

What do you mean by "extreme" in regard to the Monado arts? Are you saying that the abilities can be cast multiple times on top of one another?

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

What do you mean by "extreme" in regard to the Monado arts? Are you saying that the abilities can be cast multiple times on top of one another?

One of Shulk's custom Monado Arts specials, called "Extreme Monado Arts", drastically decreases the duration of Monado Arts in exchange for greatly increased effect, both positive and negative.

Also, just wanna reiterate that Kirby can use Monado Shield and Monado Smash if he copies Shulk! On the plus side, Kirby can't copy custom specials, so you don't have to worry about Kirby with Extreme Monado Shield/Extreme Monado Smash.

 

[QuickRat]

So:







The same weight. Sigh... why the heck are they in Smash 4?

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

So:







The same weight. Sigh... why the heck are they in Smash 4?

Dr. Mario is in because everyone (well not literally everyone, but many people) hates FLUDD. Lucina because some scrubby types like to play Marth but can't tipper worth a ****. And because some people just like Lucina. Dark Pit because they wanted to have him as a voiced alt costume, but then Sakurai decided that it made no sense for Dark Pit to have access to the Three Sacred Treasures, so they made him his own slot so he could have a different Final Smash. Then they just copy-pasted the Light Arrow onto him so they could get on with more important things, like other newcomers and game balance. They only make clones in their spare time, so to speak, so making Dark Pit's Final Smash unique would not have been a priority. He probably got added VERY last-minute, which is why he just has a retextured Light Arrow.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Very interesting how Bowser Jr. takes more damage than most other fighters whenever his body is hit.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Let's keep clone discussion out of here please.

Like besides, it makes complete sense for those 3 clones to weigh the same anyway.

Dr. Mario is Mario in a lab coat.

Dark Pit is Pit

Lucina is the same build as Marth.

No problems here.

 

[QuickRat]

Dr. Mario is in because everyone (well not literally everyone, but many people) hates FLUDD.

Not a good argument since we have custom moves now.

Lucina because some scrubby types like to play Marth but can't tipper worth a ****.

Maybe we should take a gimmickless clone for every character. A Luigi clone without sliding that much or a Little Mac clone without OHKO moves.

And because some people just like Lucina.

I like her, but not the moveset she has. I'm not complaining about her inclusion but her moveset.

Dark Pit because they wanted to have him as a voiced alt costume, but then Sakurai decided that it made no sense for Dark Pit to have access to the Three Sacred Treasures, so they made him his own slot so he could have a different Final Smash.

I know that's possibly the reason for Sakurai, but I think that a stupid reason. Link and Toon Link never ever performed Triforce Slash, and they still have it.

Then they just copy-pasted the Light Arrow onto him so they could get on with more important things, like other newcomers and game balance. They only make clones in their spare time, so to speak, so making Dark Pit's Final Smash unique would not have been a priority. He probably got added VERY last-minute, which is why he just has a retextured Light Arrow.

I know. And that's why his inclusion is that controversial.

I'm not the kind of fanboy who complains every second of his life. I just say there are some clones that could be improved in terms of singularity (Ganondorf, Falco and Toon Link) and some other clones that simply are not the way. You want a Mario without FLUDD? Then customize that move. You want a tipless Marth? Then bring back a very changed and improved Roy. You want Pit with a different FS? Then why don't they do a FS for each/some alt costume?

From another perspective: do you want Dr. Mario? Fine, make him in with Dr. Mario and Tetris series moves. You want Lucina? Awesome, she could fit witha new unique sword style. You want Dark Pit? Perfect, let's make a moveset with his special weapons from Uprising.

And yes, I didn't want to start this clone war again. Just wanted to puntualize some things.

 

[Morbi]

Let's keep clone discussion out of here please.

Like besides, it makes complete sense for those 3 clones to weigh the same anyway.

Dr. Mario is Mario in a lab coat.

Dark Pit is Pit

Lucina is the same build as Marth.

No problems here.

Albeit, one would think that the added weight of the lab coat (and pills) would increase the good doctors weight ever-so-slightly.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Albeit, one would think that the added weight of the lab coat (and pills) would increase the good doctors weight ever-so-slightly.

mario has fludd hiding somewhere

 

[StarshipGroove]

Dr. Mario did weight more in Melee

Little Mac clone without OHKO moves

Aw yes Glass Joe for smash

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Dr. Mario did weight more in Melee

I think that's only in the PAL version of Melee.

 

[SolCalibre]

Sorry...could someone explain to me what the difference is between extreme stance and normal stances with shulk?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Sorry...could someone explain to me what the difference is between extreme stance and normal stances with shulk?

One of Shulk's custom Monado Arts specials, called "Extreme Monado Arts", drastically decreases the duration of Monado Arts in exchange for greatly increased effect, both positive and negative.

 

[UberMadman]

Just for curiosity's sake, are you going to include Kirby's Monado stances too? Keep in mind he always copies the default custom, so he doesn't get the "Extreme" stances even if he copies a Shulk with them turned on.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I don't know if the formula is correct, but it seems that when Shulk switches to Shield Stance, his weight gets multiplied by 1.4313725490196078431372549019608.

If that multiplier applies to Kirby as well, his weight would be 110.21568627450980392156862745098 if he's in Shield Stance mode.

Again, I'm not certain if this is correct, so someone will have to investigate this matter further.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Just for curiosity's sake, are you going to include Kirby's Monado stances too? Keep in mind he always copies the default custom, so he doesn't get the "Extreme" stances even if he copies a Shulk with them turned on.

It's very likely that we'll have to wait until Wii U version (unless I can control training mode with two 3DS's) since Kirby won't use Inhale and shield stance. The AI just keeps walking towards me and ftilting.

I don't know if the formula is correct, but it seems that when Shulk switches to Shield Stance, his weight gets multiplied by 1.4313725490196078431372549019608.

If that multiplier applies to Kirby as well, his weight would be 110.21568627450980392156862745098 if he's in Shield Stance mode.

Again, I'm not certain if this is correct, so someone will have to investigate this matter further.

These are awfully precise numbers, where did you get these from? Did you just run some calcs yourself?

 

[Indigo Jeans]

It's very likely that we'll have to wait until Wii U version (unless I can control training mode with two 3DS's) since Kirby won't use Inhale and shield stance. The AI just keeps walking towards me and ftilting.


These are awfully precise numbers, where did you get these from? Did you just run some calcs yourself?

Using the scientific calculator in Windows 8 and dividing 146/102 (the weight values you gave) gives you 1.4313725490196078431372549019608

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I feel like it's probably just a flat weight adjustment rather than a multiplier.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I feel like it's probably just a flat weight adjustment rather than a multiplier.

We'll probably know for certain once Kirby's weight is tested with the stance changes.

 

[Chauzu]

Just wanted to let you know that Wii Fit Trainer has a Down Special customization that makes her take "less knockback", so I presume that means she gains weight. Might be worth looking into. (I'd do it if I knew what to do haha.)

 

[CrowGoesCaw]

Does Mario's fludd affect his weight? Filled verses empty?

 

[shogungari]

I noticed the mii fighters had three separate entries. Does their height affect their weight along with their stats or does their weight affect their....weight?

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

I noticed the mii fighters had three separate entries. Does their height affect their weight along with their stats or does their weight affect their....weight?

The size of the Mii determines its weight, along with its movement speed, damage output, knockback, and startup time/endlag on attacks. The difference is definitely noticeable in the endlag of the Mii Brawler's forward smash depending on weight class. It appears there are 6 possible weight classes, assuming only integer weights.

 

[LinkOscuro]

Is there any list of speed from every character?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Is there any list of speed from every character?

planning on making this at some stage

 

[Bralef]

I was going to ask the same question. I'm very curious about the speed rankings of everyone.

Jeez, Junior is as heavy as Charizard, for crying out loud. I'm going to have a lot of fun playing as Iggy. Bowser himself is also a damn tank at this point. I think he might end up as one of my mains...

 

[andalsoandy]

Really curious about how Wario's air speed ranks with everyone again. I heard he was nerfed in that area.

Keep up the good work!

 

[The_Altrox]

Shouldn't Wii Fit Trainer be heavier? Muscle weighs more than fat, bro.

Also, you'd think Olimar would be the lightest...

 

[B0NK]

Why on Earth is Rosalina so light? ...Could it be because she's an Outer Space Queen? Or to balance out her Luma power?

Seriously, she's a heavy in Mario Kart. What is the logic behind this?

It was said earlier in the thread, but Mario Kart weight is determined by the kart frame size the character needs in order to fit in their kart. Rosalina's height and dress in Mario Kart requires her to have a heavy kart frame.

Weight is not determined like this at all in Smash games. She is likely light for the same reason Mewtwo was light in Melee, cause they're floaty and have an anti-gravity effect. (Yeah Sakurai logic is hilarious at times, but relatively consistent).

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Is Jr heavier than Ganon really?

Also, I keep hearing he takes more damage, why?

 

[CrowGoesCaw]

Is Jr heavier than Ganon really?

Also, I keep hearing he takes more damage, why?

He takes less damage if you hit the Clown Car, and more damage if you hit him instead.

Aerodrome awesomely did the leg work and got the numbers:

View attachment 25819

Pretend this is Smash 4 Bowser Jr.

If you hit the yellow zone, your damage is multiplied by 0.88. If you hit the blue zone, it's multiplied by 1.15

If you hit the bob-omb, it explodes. ;__;


Edit: If you're asking what takes priority if you hit both zones, I'm not sure. Probably the blue zone.