Smash 4 - Weight Rankings

[ChikoLad]

And I met Jesus yesterday.

I've said it so it must be true and relevant.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

Jigglypuff is still the lightest.
Makes sense to me. Although I am surprised DK is the 2nd heaviest.

 

[KlefkiHolder]

And I met Jesus yesterday.

I've said it so it must be true and relevant.

Except for the fact that, you know, by this logic your whole argument up to this point can also be nullified.

Edit: so as to not derail the thread, from what I've seen on streams like VGBC's, it seems that the heavier characters seem to be performing better, at least this early on in the meta (if you can call it that). While it is way too early to even attempt to reach a consensus, I was just wondering what your guys' thoughts on that were and how that might change in the future.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Let's get back on track. HI am actually playing Rosalina right now and while she does seem fairly light to me so I agree with Aero on this one. Not extremely light but enough where it is noticeable.

 

[Novice_Brave]

Some of these are somewhat surprising to me (mostly Palutena and Roslina - thought they'd both be heavier) but facts don't lie, great info.

 

[WindMajor]

wow aerodrome you know better than to reveal a woman's weight to the world

how dare you

 

[Leonyx]

Except for the fact that, you know, by this logic your whole argument up to this point can also be nullified.

Edit: so as to not derail the thread, from what I've seen on streams like VGBC's, it seems that the heavier characters seem to be performing better, at least this early on in the meta (if you can call it that). While it is way too early to even attempt to reach a consensus, I was just wondering what your guys' thoughts on that were and how that might change in the future.

I think a lot of that has to do with people focused more on the traditional side/ceiling KO, rather than gimps that I think will become the norm for this game. Heavier characters tend to do a lot better at boundary KO's than gimps.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

P.S. frondz,

I figured out a way to measure Shulk's stances

Also I will make a minimum weight Mii and a maximum weight mii tonight and also finally get around to measuring G&W.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

This is some very interesting data! I am actually really surprised, but in the good way, to see this kind of mathematical analysis being done on the game so early. One thing I've noticed in the demo though. When Mario does dhtrow -> utilt against Mega Man and against Link with both not hitting any buttons, Mega Man sits lower than Link in the combo and gets hit by another utilt. It feels like Mega Man is more floaty than Link too so I don't think it's fall speed (I could be wrong here?). I remember in Brawl weight wasn't 100% predictive of launch power if the launch hit with a strength of 2550 or greater (and fall speed generally didn't matter but I don't remember what the hacking ultimately showed our mysterious "weight 2" parameter to actually be); is something like that going on here? I thought Mega Man was a little heavier than Link but your results suggest the opposite and, with the full game, you've obviously done a lot more research into this than I have so I'm wondering if you have run into anything that might explain this.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

This is some very interesting data! I am actually really surprised, but in the good way, to see this kind of mathematical analysis being done on the game so early. One thing I've noticed in the demo though. When Mario does dhtrow -> utilt against Mega Man and against Link with both not hitting any buttons, Mega Man sits lower than Link in the combo and gets hit by another utilt. It feels like Mega Man is more floaty than Link too so I don't think it's fall speed (I could be wrong here?). I remember in Brawl weight wasn't 100% predictive of launch power if the launch hit with a strength of 2550 or greater (and fall speed generally didn't matter but I don't remember what the hacking ultimately showed our mysterious "weight 2" parameter to actually be); is something like that going on here? I thought Mega Man was a little heavier than Link but your results suggest the opposite and, with the full game, you've obviously done a lot more research into this than I have so I'm wondering if you have run into anything that might explain this.

Yeah I believe it is. At lower %'s, Megaman takes more knockback than Link, but at higher percentages, Megaman takes significantly less.

I remember reading all of Colin's **** back in the day, so I think that knockback is calculated similarly to Brawl.

That said, you'd be interested to hear (imo, I know all the work you did in Brawl) but Bowser Jr. doesn't seem to have a very standard weight. He sits in the middle of 108 and 107. He's the only anomaly I've found so far.

Edit: Also I found Bowser's weight. Fat ****.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Yeah, that is very interesting, but I kinda feel like that proves there's been some kind of shift here in mechanics or perhaps there's some small source of error in your testing methods introducing small variations in expected outcomes. I'd be really surprised if Bowser Jr. and Bowser Jr. alone had a non-integer weight value (though DK is still unconfirmed as well?); it seems more likely that something else is probably going on, likely something subtle. I do feel terrible just saying that though since the demo offers me just too limited of a toolset to actually help; I'm sure you'll figure everything out by then, but if there are sitll questions come October 3, I'll definitely be looking into tons of stuff like this.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I'm going to attempt to hack what I think Bowser Jr.'s weight is into Brawl and see what results I come up with.

Checking DK's weight now...

I have a feeling Shulk's Shield Weight is 140+

Edit: GOT EM COACH

Now with Shulk I want to post a disclaimer. To get the correct knockback, I had to use the stat customizations for the character I was testing with. It's not 100% equal, but I am 90% certain that my results will be what his Shield stance weight is.

Shield reduces damage by 33.05%, so I added about 33% damage to the attack I was using. Assuming that the attack increase custom parts DON'T change BKB and KBG, we should be good.

Edit 2: Shield Stance gives Shulk a weight of 146

Time to try Bowser Junior's weight.

Edit 3:

Matches up EXACTLY. I can say with 110% certainty that Bowser Jr. has the correct weight.

Edit: Lightweight doesn't appear to reduce Palutena's weight at all...........

It increases damage, but Palutena's weight stays the same. Bowser Fsmash did 26% instead of the normal 22-23%

Edit: Shulk's Smash Stance makes him take 20% extra damage, I don't know if his weight changes. He won't stay in any stance other than shield when over 100%

Edit: All done!

Yatta! ... or something.

 

[Phaazoid]

Wow, Bowser jr's weight is a lot higher than I expected.

I wonder if it's different when he's in his helpless state (no clown car?)

I know that after he's used his up special and his clown car is gone, he has different properties, like he can still use aerials, but they are all different.

 

[FalconBrofist]

Thanks for this man

Ahahaa link and falcon are the same weight again. and now yoshi joins them HYPE

isnt there a monado stance where shulk is easier to launch? or does this not have to do with weight? does it even exist? i think it was the smash one

 

[WindMajor]

Does anyone find it weird that Duck Hunt Dog is heavier than a sizeable portion of the cast?

He's just a dog with a duck on his back.

 

[TheFadedWarrior]

Wait, I thought they said that Little Mac was going to be fairly heavy? Sucks they changed that.

 

[Reila]

Does anyone find it weird that Duck Hunt Dog is heavier than a sizeable portion of the cast?

He's just a dog with a duck on his back.

It is Duck Hunt, not Duck Hunt Dog. But yes, I find it weird too.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Good thing Smash 4 doesn't have Brawl's mechanics.

You literally have someone who's been doing frame data and hitbox data and w/e through Brawl and Project M and now Smash 4, AND ALSO THE CREATOR OF THE SMASH SERIES telling you that Rosalina is extremely light and you won't believe it.

@ Mario & Sonic Guy escort pls

I was absent while you were getting the weight value data. I'm actually quite surprised by how low Rosalina's weight value is. If Melee Mewtwo has shown us anything, this does not look good at all for Rosalina's competitive potential.

 

[Meru.]

wow aerodrome you know better than to reveal a woman's weight to the world

how dare you

A woman's weight? Have you seen Little Mac's weight? The dude will probably kill himself when he discovers he is actually lighter than Peach and Zelda. So much for his "muscles".

 

[Ffamran]

A woman's weight? Have you seen Little Mac's weight? The dude will probably kill himself when he discovers he is actually lighter than Peach and Zelda. So much for his "muscles".

Well, to be fair Little Mac is shorter than them. Also, dresses like those are heavy and not to mention Zelda's metal ornaments and the stuff Peach keeps in her dress: pans, golf clubs, tennis rackets, and Toad?! All Mac's got on are some boots, tank-top, shorts, and his gloves.

 

[Foughen]

Now waiT....

You have a copy of the game Aero!?!

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Now waiT....

You have a copy of the game Aero!?!

Yep, i do sis.

 

[Foughen]

Yep, i do sis.

!!!!!


This is news to me!

Have you gotten any of Zelda's custom moves to try out??
Are lightning kicks really better?

I need to you make post on the Zelda boards breaking down all ha moves!

I mean I'm pretty sure she's still bad but I need to hear it from someone who actually has the game.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

No worries, Ill do it this afternoon

 

[andalsoandy]

Does anyone find it weird that Duck Hunt Dog is heavier than a sizeable portion of the cast?

He's just a dog with a duck on his back.

it's gotta be all those cans he's carrying in his dog pockets.

 

[Foughen]

No worries, Ill do it this afternoon

Have you unlocked the custom moves yet?

I need like paragraphs of details sis.

I'm tired of going through all of the casual post on the Zelda boards trying to find out the details.


Someone just said Melee Din's was fast.

When you make the thread I'll have lots of questions.

I'm hyped now.

 

[Ffamran]

it's gotta be all those cans he's carrying in his dog pockets.

Not to mention all the clay pigeons and random 8-bit huntsmen stored somewhere. Oh, and hot gas too.

 

[Toadallstar2]

Oooh thank you for this info.
Would you say Zelda is lighter or heavier than in previous installments?

 

[Maraphy]

>Palutena's lightweight doesn't change her weight

MIND BLOWN

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Wow, Rosalina. Please go on a junk food binge in the months before Smash on WiiU, thanks.

 

[Ffamran]

Wow, Rosalina. Please go on a junk food binge in the months before Smash on WiiU, thanks.

Don't be telling what a strong, independent, single mother should do!

On her weight, maybe it's because Rosalina's no longer human in a sense that she might not be made of the same "stuff" as say, Mario, Peach, or Little Mac. I mean, mama's got a galaxy under her dress.

 

[JCOnyx]

Isn't Rosalina a heavy in Mario Kart, but now she's a lightweight in Smash? Obviously Sakurai didn't collaborate enough with the big N and get her weight right lol. Either that or she's on a really effective diet.

On a serious note, this is fantastic. I'm pleasantly surprised with Mega Mans weight and Bowser Jr. is looking extremely strong with his high mobility, projectiles, stage control, disjoints and weight.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Really disappointed about how light Little Mac is. Should've definitely been made heavier, at least as heavy as Mario imo.

 

[IsmaR]

Know Smash isn't canon, but to all those surprised at how light he is, Mac officially weighs only 107 lb/49 kg.

Granted should still be heavier than Greninja/definitely not heavier than ZSS, they most likely wanted to play up the 'Lil' part to him, just as they did the "floaty" part to Rosa or compact part to Juniorlings.

 

[KingBroly]

This is where custom stages in Brawl really came in handy.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Don't be telling what a strong, independent, single mother should do!

On her weight, maybe it's because Rosalina's no longer human in a sense that she might not be made of the same "stuff" as say, Mario, Peach, or Little Mac. I mean, mama's got a galaxy under her dress.

One thing is certain though. Tall and very light are not a good combo, as Melee Mewtwo has shown us. The best fighters are portrayed as being small targets who are very mobile, as Pikachu, Fox, and Meta Knight have shown us. Funny how all three of those fighters are heavier than a 7'7" female.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

@ KuroganeHammer

Monado Shield is not Shulk's only Monado Art that affects his weight btw. His launch resistance decreases when he uses Monado Smash.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

@ KuroganeHammer

Monado Shield is not Shulk's only Monado Art that affects his weight btw. His launch resistance decreases when he uses Monado Smash.

read the first two sentences of the op

/cryingfacething

 

[Muster]

@ KuroganeHammer

Monado Shield is not Shulk's only Monado Art that affects his weight btw. His launch resistance decreases when he uses Monado Smash.

I'm pretty sure he already mentioned that monado smash does not effect weight, but only does 20% more damage to shulk or something.

Edit: Oh.

 

[Swiftie_Muggle]

I find that extremely odd, considering Rosalina is in a heavier weight class in the Mario Kart games than Peach, Mario, Luigi and Yoshi. If anything, she should be heavier than all of them.

That's because Rosalina's only reason to be in a ''heavy'' weight class in Mario Kart is because she is one of the Tallest (not one of the heaviest) characters so her karts need more leg room / or are bigger to fit her tall frame accurately ; hence why the Skinny Waluigi is in that weight class too.