Smash 4 - Weight Rankings

[Tristan_win]

I woke up really scared.

I thought rage gene would have affected all these percentages in training mode

But then I tested it and apparently rage gene does no extra knockback in training mode.

Go figure.

Aerodrome I haven't seen you post much before now, possibly due to you joining smashboards while I was gone but your adorable, no homo.

You give us the facts we need and your dedicated, thank you.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

In Brawl, characters in training mode were slightly lighter than their weight in versus mode. Is that also true in Smash 4 or is it the same weight now?

From what I can recall, there's no stale moves issue in Training mode.

 

[Cuccu Maestro]

I'm surprised I haven't seen this mentioned yet, but with no c-stick it's really hard to tell if you are charging a smash slightly or not. Using a kill tilt like megaman's uptilt would be strictly better regarding scientific method to determine character weights in training mode.

As an aside, there's no rage mechanic in training mode?? I guess it could confuse players that didn't take the time to refresh their health to 0% when they test things... Pretty crazy though.

 

[Chiroz]

I'm surprised I haven't seen this mentioned yet, but with no c-stick it's really hard to tell if you are charging a smash slightly or not. Using a kill tilt like megaman's uptilt would be strictly better regarding scientific method to determine character weights in training mode.

As an aside, there's no rage mechanic in training mode?? I guess it could confuse players that didn't take the time to refresh their health to 0% when they test things... Pretty crazy though.

It was probably done with a fully charged smash attack. Which is probably much easier than a move with a sour spot and a sweet spot.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I'm surprised I haven't seen this mentioned yet, but with no c-stick it's really hard to tell if you are charging a smash slightly or not. Using a kill tilt like megaman's uptilt would be strictly better regarding scientific method to determine character weights in training mode.

As an aside, there's no rage mechanic in training mode?? I guess it could confuse players that didn't take the time to refresh their health to 0% when they test things... Pretty crazy though.

Praise the Lord I'm using a tilt attack to test these.

Also if I test smash attacks, I do it in 1/4 speed.

 

[Cuccu Maestro]

Ah, that makes a lot of sense. Is there a reason you aren't being transparent with your testing method aerodrome? The data is the same regardless, worst case scenario people see holes in your method you may have missed. It seems like a difficult thing to test though, seeing how fall speed should affect results in a hard to determine fashion. This isn't the first smash game though, I'm sure you know what's up.

Thanks for taking the time to determine this stuff, btw.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

To gain the true weight list I used MtwoK's method of Falco ftilt vs metal opponent and recording the numbers they were knocked down at.

After a while I realised that the numbers were exactly the same as Brawl's for 80% of the cast, so I made the assumption that Falco ftilt has the same BKB and KBG in Smash 4 as it does in Brawl.

To gain weights that aren't in Brawl (like New Bowser, Bowser Jr. etc) I hacked the weight into Brawl and compared results, if they were the same, then it had to be the programmed weight.

Example: New Bowser gets knocked down at 395%, whereas old Bowser got knocked down at 374%, I estimated about 8 points difference, hacked Brawl Bowser's weight to 128 and then Brawl Bowser started to get knocked down at 395%.

It's then a logical conclusion that's how it works.

 

[BJN39]

Hey @ KuroganeHammer apparently, one of WFT's Deep breathing customs allows her to increase her hit taking durability to some extent. Wanna check it out to see if there's a weight change if you haven't already?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Can you give me a bit more info? I don't have WFT's customs yet.

 

[BJN39]

YouTube, channel name "TubeChau" they have a video which shows WFT's (lulzy) custom specials. (Can't share YT links on my mobile potato.) It's the final custom shown, so just skip to near the end of the video of it on their channel. It mentions something about increased durability, but it isn't visually highlighted much in the vid.

 

[Pitzer]

Hmmm interesting.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I did it in training mode.

I'll have the data values up as soon as I finish getting everyone I guess.

What did you do in training mode? Did you test both vertical and horizontal weights?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Did you check both vertical and horizontal weights? Or just the average?


What did you do in training mode? Did you test both vertical and horizontal weights?

This is a "true" weight list.

Basically the weight that's programmed in the game.

I don't have time to test horizontal or vertical weights and justified my decision that a true weight list would be more helpful to the community at this point in time to get a general feel for who's a fat f*** and who isn't.

 

[TheSMASHtyke]

There's a long text file of trophy descriptions being circulated around which can be read here. However, there's one description in particular that's very interesting:

Bowser's beloved, spoiled son sports a bandanna with a large mouth drawn on it. Like his father, Bowser Jr. longs to take Mario down. In Smash Bros., he'll fight from inside his heavily armed Junior Clown Car. The Clown Car takes less damage than Bowser Jr., so mind your positioning.

That last line is the interesting part. If the Koopa Clown Car takes less damage (at least from what the description claims), there might also be the possibility of it taking less knockback. Hitting Bowser Jr and hitting the Clown Car holding Bowser Jr might use different weights. If you have the time, I might test that possibility. Or, if there's something I'm fundamentally missing about weight calculation, nevermind.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Is it saying there's a difference between being in or out of car or between Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings?

I've already tested Bowser Jr. out of Clown Car and in Clown Car for weight differences and they seem to be the same.

Edit:

Maybe after Up B'ing there's a small damage modifier? I'll have to look into it.

 

[TheSMASHtyke]

I think it's saying either out of the Koopa Clown Car or if you hit Bowser Jr. without hitting the rest of the clown car. Not completely certain myself.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Bowser Jr. out of a clown car took 12% from my Bowser Up Tilt.

wait

hold up

Bowser Jr. seems to be taking extra damage from attacks permanently

wtf?

Now he's taking less damage

wtf

help

Ok, this probably makes Bowser Jr.'s weight incorrect, I'll have to retest

Edit: Im sleep, I'll check it out later

 

[SmellTheJava]

I'm quite surprised at Rosalina, I thought she was pretty damn fat here too.

 

[Yink]

Oi, I really shouldn't be surprised at Little Mac being that light, but I am. I guess he truly will float like a butterfly and sting like a bee.

 

[MrEh]

Oi, I really shouldn't be surprised at Little Mac being that light, but I am. I guess he truly will float like a butterfly and sing like a bee.

 

[Chiroz]

Wait Bowser Jr takes more damage if you can hit his uncovered head? What?

 

[sm0kemonster]

Why on Earth is Rosalina so light? ...Could it be because she's an Outer Space Queen? Or to balance out her Luma power?

Seriously, she's a heavy in Mario Kart. What is the logic behind this?

 

[UberMadman]

Bowser Jr. out of a clown car took 12% from my Bowser Up Tilt.

wait

hold up

Bowser Jr. seems to be taking extra damage from attacks permanently

wtf?

Now he's taking less damage

wtf

help

Ok, this probably makes Bowser Jr.'s weight incorrect, I'll have to retest

Edit: Im sleep, I'll check it out later

Answer to your question: according to his trophy description, the armor from Bowser Jr.'s clown car means that he takes less damage if the car is hit as opposed to if he is hit. I'm not sure if this affects knockback in any way.

EDIT: Exact translated trophy description, for reference:

"Bowser's beloved, spoiled son sports a bandanna with a large mouth drawn on it. Like his father, Bowser Jr. longs to take Mario down. In Smash Bros., he'll fight from inside his heavily armed Junior Clown Car. The Clown Car takes less damage than Bowser Jr., so mind your positioning."

 

[Reila]

Why on Earth is Rosalina so light? ...Could it be because she's an Outer Space Queen? Or to balance out her Luma power?

Seriously, she's a heavy in Mario Kart. What is the logic behind this?

Mario Kart is Mario Kart, Smash is Smash. Her weight in a kart game have nothing to with her weight in Smash. Plus, I think the reason she is light in Smash is the same reason Palutena isn't heavy, even though she does look like a heavy character: Balancing issues. If Rosalina and Palutena were heavy, they could possibly be too overpowered . Lastly, it is a video game, logic doesn't apply to video games.

 

[Boy Jordan]

Olimar dropped down by three points, huh? Scares me a bit, but maybe I can pair that with our new DI to escape early combos and damage. Could anyone relate three points of weight to percentage difference? Like, if Olimar would normally die to a Fox Usmash at 90% in Brawl, would he now die to the same at 87%? Even lower? Forgetting about other factors such as DI and rage and whatnot. Help the layman here a bit.

Thanks to everyone gathering this information, and thanks for doing the tests @ KuroganeHammer .

 

[Chiroz]

Olimar dropped down by three points, huh? Scares me a bit, but maybe I can pair that with our new DI to escape early combos and damage. Could anyone relate three points of weight to percentage difference? Like, if Olimar would normally die to a Fox Usmash at 90% in Brawl, would he now die to the same at 87%? Even lower? Help the layman here a bit.

Thanks to everyone gathering this information, and thanks for doing the tests @ KuroganeHammer .

It would probably be lower than 87%, but since he has such a buffed recovery, plus since VI seems to be stronger than DI it would probably be a bit later in comparison. I don't know actual numbers though. Plus now there's rage to think about which might cause you to die earlier or later.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Using a 10% base damage move and hitting Bowser Jr.'s head hurtbox gave me these numbers (when used repeatedly):

Spoiler: %

11
23
34
46
57
69
80
92
103
115
126
138
149
161

From this, I conclude that Bowser Jr. has a 1.15× multiplier from attacks that hit his face.

I think his body hurtbox also has a multiplier that is lower than normal.

I will attempt to find it.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Using a 12% base damage move and hitting Boozer Jr.'s clown car gave me these numbers:

Spoiler: %

10
21
31
42
52
63
73
84
95
105
116
126
137

From this, I conclude his clown car hurtbox has a 0.88× multiplier from attacks that hit his sad car.

Will retest his weight now,

 

[Chiroz]

Using a 12% base damage move and hitting Boozer Jr.'s clown car gave me these numbers:

Spoiler: %

10
21
31
42
52
63
73
84
95
105
116
126
137

From this, I conclude his clown car hurtbox has a 0.88× multiplier from attacks that hit his sad car.

Will retest his weight now,

So how does it work? If you hit his body at all it does full damage? Or is it the other way around? (If you hit his clown car at all it does 0.88x damage).

 

[KuroganeHammer]

So how does it work? If you hit his body at all it does full damage? Or is it the other way around? (If you hit his clown car at all it does 0.88x damage).

Pretend this is Smash 4 Bowser Jr.

If you hit the yellow zone, your damage is multiplied by 0.88. If you hit the blue zone, it's multiplied by 1.15

If you hit the bob-omb, it explodes. ;__;


Edit: If you're asking what takes priority if you hit both zones, I'm not sure. Probably the blue zone.

 

[Chiroz]

View attachment 25819

Pretend this is Smash 4 Bowser Jr.

If you hit the yellow zone, your damage is multiplied by 0.88. If you hit the blue zone, it's multiplied by 1.15

If you hit the bob-omb, it explodes. ;__;

What if you hit both, is it the first one hit?


Edit: Just read your edit. Ummm, I would guess it's probably the blue one or the first one hit. At least that's how I'd do it if I were Sakurai.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I've retested using equipment that lowers my damage output so I do proper damage to Jr.

Bowser Jr.'s real weight is 115

 

[Boy Jordan]

Damn, heavy little bugger. Bowser Jr. fans should be happy.

 

[UberMadman]

I've retested using equipment that lowers my damage output so I do proper damage to Jr.

Bowser Jr.'s real weight is 115

Holy ****, are his bones made out of goddamn osmium or something?

 

[Chiroz]

Holy ****, are his bones made out of goddamn osmium or something?

He is on a floating ship with cannon balls, bombs, forks, hammers, wheels, wings .

 

[UberMadman]

He is on a floating ship with cannon balls, bombs, forks, hammers, wheels, wings .

Yes, but keep in mind that his weight doesn't change when he ejects from the ship - only the damage modifier. Therefore, it can be safely assumed that the Junior Clown Car is composed of Helium.

 

[smashmachine]

lol at super light Shulk being lighter than Jigglypuff, while his shield stances are both significantly heavier than anyone else

 

[san.]

The 1.15x multiplier doesn't affect weight, but we'll be able to kill him earlier than a natural 115 weight opponent (as if he was 107.5)?

 

[Starbound]

That'll make Bowser Jr. a very interesting character to fight against considering his hitbox is so tiny.

I think a lot of Jr. mains will be trying to influence where their opponents can hit Jr. so that they can hit the car.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

The 1.15x multiplier doesn't affect weight, but we'll be able to kill him earlier than a natural 115 weight opponent (as if he was 107.5)?

I... guess so? Actually that makes a lot of sense although I'm not certain if that's exactly how this works.