Smash Wii U [Sm4sh Mods] (Unofficial) Patch 1.1.7: The Fan Patch [Discontinued. See Updated Thread for details]

[Furret24]

Here are my suggestions for Robin. I suggest improving his movement speed to 1.7, this will allow Robin to have an easier time following up if he lands an Arc Fire or Arc Thunder. Also to help with follow ups shave off some frames of his specials. With these changes Robin will have access to a much more agro zoning/trapping style of play. And last change the angle of forward throw from 45 to 30 degrees.

What do you mean by "movement speed"? Dash speed? Air speed? Walk speed? Fall speed? Aerial Acceleration? Aerial deceleration? Jump Velocity? Dash acceleration? Walk acceleration? Fastfall speed? You need to be more specific. :V

Assuming you meant dash speed, increasing it by such a drastic amount (he would start running nearly as fast as DK) would make his followups off his specials hilariously overtuned. How would like to get hit by Arc Fire or Arc Thunder at 60% or 70% and die because Robin was able to run up and land a charged smash attack on you? Robin's bad mobility is to compensate for his extremely powerful attacks (particularly smashes and aerials) and specials that allow him to keep out opponents. Giving him such good mobility would heavily imbalance him.

 

[Derpnaster]

If anything Robin really needs a grab buff. It comes out decently fast but it has such short range that Robin has to get in someone's face which is very unsafe if she misses or they predict the grab and dodge.

I'd say make the grab slightly longer, or give it a frame or two less cooldown. I don't even want to look at the throws because Robin already hurts enough off of them.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Robin needs to be a slow fighter, since he's designed to be a tactician combatant. If you make Robin run fast, then it would become rather difficult for fighters to catch him while he's waiting for his tomes to recharge. And as Furret24 already pointed out, making Robin a fast mover would imbalance him, as he does possess some rather powerful attacks that are balanced out by the weak mobility.

 

[Gigan X3]

Just adjust the grab and pummel for Robin. Remove special fall after Nosferatu and refine his sour spots and sweet spots. For example, sour spot on fast fall Bair deals 5% but it's interrupted in a way that is negative on hit. Falco for example, finishes his Fair's last hit if he lands. Robin gets punished for landing so I recommend making the move SLIGHTLY safer either by increasing the sour spot's damage or reducing landing lag(currently 19 frames).

 

[Deleted member]

It depends on which attributes you're editing. Falling speed modifications are NOT buffs or nerfs, as there are good AND bad things about being floaty or a fast-faller. Low falling speed helps with recovery, but makes you more vulnerable to getting Star KO'd, while high falling speed makes you more vulnerable to combos, despite offering better vertical endurance. And of course, high falling speed can be bad for anyone who doesn't have a long-ranged recovery.

Also, a difference between 1.2 and 1.3 is VERY noticeable if you compare the speed differences more closely. For instance, Diddy Kong (whose walk speed is 1.25) can walk faster than Mewtwo and Charizard, but he does walk slower than Donkey Kong.

The 0.1 buff applied to the individual hits of Dr.Mario's Down Special though, not movement.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Is it Jigglypuff's fate to forever be ignored?

Props to whoever did the changes for Doc. They're pretty good. As for whoever did the changes for Cloud, don't quit your day job.

 

[SageX3]

What do you mean by "movement speed"? Dash speed? Air speed? Walk speed? Fall speed? Aerial Acceleration? Aerial deceleration? Jump Velocity? Dash acceleration? Walk acceleration? Fastfall speed? You need to be more specific. :V

Assuming you meant dash speed, increasing it by such a drastic amount (he would start running nearly as fast as DK) would make his followups off his specials hilariously overtuned. How would like to get hit by Arc Fire or Arc Thunder at 60% or 70% and die because Robin was able to run up and land a charged smash attack on you? Robin's bad mobility is to compensate for his extremely powerful attacks (particularly smashes and aerials) and specials that allow him to keep out opponents. Giving him such good mobility would heavily imbalance him.

By movement speed I mean dash speed. A boost to his speed is needed. Robin is supposed to benefit from traps but it's a miracle if you can even follow up from arc fire or Arc thunder from mid stage. Giving him a boost to run speed wouldn't result in 70% KOs. If anything it would allow you to land an up smash easier. At least increase his run speed to 1.6, 1.5 at worst.

 

[Furret24]

Is it Jigglypuff's fate to forever be ignored?

Props to whoever did the changes for Doc. They're pretty good. As for whoever did the changes for Cloud, don't quit your day job.

Don't worry mate. We already have a change list for every character. It's just that we're still looking over a lot of them, as a good chunk could use some work to say the least. I believe Yoshi did a majority of the Doc changes. Props to him. I also feel he did good.

By movement speed I mean dash speed. A boost to his speed is needed. Robin is supposed to benefit from traps but it's a miracle if you can even follow up from arc fire or Arc thunder from mid stage. Giving him a boost to run speed wouldn't result in 70% KOs. If anything it would allow you to land an up smash easier. At least increase his run speed to 1.6, 1.5 at worst.

Miracle? Robins, from what I've seen,can usually get in an aerial off an Arc Fire if it hits, even with their 1.15 dash speed. If you increased it by such a drastic amount, he could certainly get a charged smash on you, which could definitely kill most characters around 70%, especially with rage.

Considering the huge range Arc Thunder has, it's kinda unsurprising he doesn't always gets a follow-up. The only character who could a follow-up from anywhere it hits the opponent is Sonic, maybe Falcon or Mac too.

While I do think Robin needs a little Dash increase, he certainly doesn't need one that large (to 1.3 at most imo). As I stated for, giving him even just decent dash speed could definitely imbalance him and/or overtune his followups out of certain moves.

 

[Gigan X3]

Robin's pretty solid, he doesn't need big changes. He just needs pointers, he's very much ready to dance.

 

[Eugene Wang]

What do the tentative changelogs look like now?

 

[Derpnaster]

Is there any chance of reducing the aerial endlag on Grenibja's nair? It's a little nuts that a move that is active for like four or five frames can kill you from just about ledge height if you don't hit.

more of a personal issue though I just thought I'd bring it up.

 

[ZeusLink]

Is it Jigglypuff's fate to forever be ignored?

Ya know what they say. Protest against Sakurai and his decisions to not buff specific low tiers *cough*Zelda**cough*

 

[Derpnaster]

To be fair jiggs was never meant to be a serious character. That said I still want her down air to break shields if all the hits connect.

 

[Radical Larry]

Here's some buffs of Puff that should happen:

Weight Increased: 68 => 73
Air Speed Increased: 1.269 => 1.4
Fall Speed Increased: 0.98 => 1.3
Fast Fall Speed Increased: 1.568 => 1.934

Down Tilt Hitbox Active: 10-12 => 7-10
Down Tilt FAF Decreased: 30 => 26
Forward Smash Hitbox Active: 16-19 => 13-16
Forward Smash FAF Decreased: 50 => 38
Up Smash Hitbox Active: 16-19 => 13-16
Up Smash FAF Decreased: 46 => 29
Down Smash FAF Decreased: 49 => 39

Forward Throw KBG Decreased: 100 => 30
Forward Throw Angle Changed: 55 => 70
Up Throw KBG Increased: 110 => 150
Down Throw KBG Decreased: 100 => 40

Back Aerial Hitbox Active: 12-13 => 8-9
Down Aerial Damage Output Increased: 1.5% => 3%
Down Aerial Last Hit Damage Increased: 2% => 4%

Pound FAF Decreased: 46 => 32
Pound Shield Damage Increased to +25%
Rest FAF Decreased: 230 => 210
Rest Shield Damage Increased to +30%
Rest Angle Changed: 88 => 50

Now Rest and Pound are REALLY dangerous on shields since if you don't Perfect Shield, Pound will make your shield go down quite a lot, but Rest will instantaneously break the shield. As well, mobility and frame data increase will aid Puff's ability.

 

[Derpnaster]

Edit for reasons of that sounded too harsh.

Ok I'm going to try being less agro here since I like people.

In what way would those changes help Jiggs? how does making her heavier help her more, how does making her fall faster help her and hurt her, how does the movement speed change work?

Why would the attack changes help jiggs who already displayed insane air power when used right, how do the ground attacks help or hinder her.

In short, in what way is the all good? And how can it also be bad?

 

[MarioMeteor]

To be fair jiggs was never meant to be a serious character. That said I still want her down air to break shields if all the hits connect.

That's not really a good excuse. There are people out there who actually like the character and are rather unhappy with the state she's been in for the past two games.
So I guess I'll propose some changes as well.

Forward tilt - BKB increased: 8 -> 16
Up tilt - KBG decreased: 120 -> 90, hitbox size increased.
Up smash - active frames changed: 16-19 -> 13-16. Upper body invincibility on frames 13 - 16. FAF: 46 -> 31.
Down smash - damage increased: 11% -> 14%, startup decreased by 3 frames: frame 14 -> frame 11.

Back air - hitbox active: 12-13 -> 8-9.
Down air - landing lag: 30 - 15, final hit now meteor smashes aerial opponents weakly.
Up air - startup decreased: frame 9 -> frame 7, landing lag decreased: 15 -> 10.

Forward throw - angle lowered to semi-spike trajectory.
Down throw - damage decreased: 4%, 6% -> 3%, 4%. Knockback: 45 base, 100 growth -> 40 base, 80 growth.
Back throw - angle lowered.
Up throw - knockback: 30 base, 110 growth -> 70 base, 120 growth.

Rollout: No longer causes helplessness after connecting.
Pound: FAF: 46 -> 40.
Rest: Forces Star KO.
Sing: I don't even know how to fix this move.

Here's some buffs of Puff that should happen:

Weight Increased: 68 => 73
Air Speed Increased: 1.269 => 1.4
Fall Speed Increased: 0.98 => 1.3
Fast Fall Speed Increased: 1.568 => 1.934

Down Tilt Hitbox Active: 10-12 => 7-10
Down Tilt FAF Decreased: 30 => 26
Forward Smash Hitbox Active: 16-19 => 13-16
Forward Smash FAF Decreased: 50 => 38
Up Smash Hitbox Active: 16-19 => 13-16
Up Smash FAF Decreased: 46 => 29
Down Smash FAF Decreased: 49 => 39

Forward Throw KBG Decreased: 100 => 30
Forward Throw Angle Changed: 55 => 70
Up Throw KBG Increased: 110 => 150
Down Throw KBG Decreased: 100 => 40

Back Aerial Hitbox Active: 12-13 => 8-9
Down Aerial Damage Output Increased: 1.5% => 3%
Down Aerial Last Hit Damage Increased: 2% => 4%

Pound FAF Decreased: 46 => 32
Pound Shield Damage Increased to +25%
Rest FAF Decreased: 230 => 210
Rest Shield Damage Increased to +30%
Rest Angle Changed: 88 => 50

Now Rest and Pound are REALLY dangerous on shields since if you don't Perfect Shield, Pound will make your shield go down quite a lot, but Rest will instantaneously break the shield. As well, mobility and frame data increase will aid Puff's ability.

Your changes are pretty good (I had to steal a few of them for myself), but keep in mind that Jigglypuff is, first and foremost, a balloon. It'd go against her design (even though a ****ing outline shouldn't weigh more than a balloon) to buff her weight and increase her falling speed. Especially by such a wide margin, that would end up hurting her, I think.

 

[Derpnaster]

On sing I suggest not having it trigger counters. I do agree that is really stupid

 

[ZeusLink]

Also, I think Zelda could use some buffs herself, like a stronger sourspotted Fair/Bair, (knockback mostly), in my opinion. I hate when the sourspot hits plus the fact it's a laggy move, with heavy landing lag.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Here's some buffs of Puff that should happen:

Weight Increased: 68 => 73
Air Speed Increased: 1.269 => 1.4
Fall Speed Increased: 0.98 => 1.3
Fast Fall Speed Increased: 1.568 => 1.934

I have to say no to these changes.

For weight, I'd only raise it to 70.

Air speed is too high, as not even Melee Jigglypuff moved THAT fast in the air. 1.35 is pretty much the maximum for my tastes.

As for falling speed, I actually "decreased" it to 0.95. Since Jigglypuff is heavily reliant on its mid-air jumps for recovery, the last thing it needs is a higher falling speed value. In terms of fast-falling, I set it to 1.52.

 

[Eugene Wang]

Making Sing a command grab solves some of the issues it has. It'll still be a niche move like PK flash, but at least it'll have use.

And Jiggs could use some faster aerial acceleration and deceleration.

 

[Radical Larry]

Well, her air speed was what, the best in Melee [I don't know because ol' Kurogane isn't focusing on Melee]? Having a better aerial speed aids her combo game and approach options of course, and also aids her recovery. The falling speed and fast-falling speed buffs her so that she doesn't get killed earlier, so that she can also get to the ground better. Furthermore, having her weight go up to 73 still makes her the lightest character in the mod/game.

And hey, despite the falling speed change, Pound having an FAF of 32 gives her a more proper recovery again.
And if you want Jigglypuff to be reliant on jumps for recovery Mario & Sonic Guy why not have her jumps go higher?

 

[MarioMeteor]

Well, her air speed was what, the best in Melee [I don't know because ol' Kurogane isn't focusing on Melee]? Having a better aerial speed aids her combo game and approach options of course, and also aids her recovery. The falling speed and fast-falling speed buffs her so that she doesn't get killed earlier, so that she can also get to the ground better. Furthermore, having her weight go up to 73 still makes her the lightest character in the mod/game.

And hey, despite the falling speed change, Pound having an FAF of 32 gives her a more proper recovery again.
And if you want Jigglypuff to be reliant on jumps for recovery Mario & Sonic Guy why not have her jumps go higher?

Making her fall faster would be rather counterproductive if you're trying to improve her aerial game. Jigglypuff is a glass cannon and an aerial ace, to make her falling speed higher would go against her character design.

As for air speed buffs, 1.3 is reasonable. It'd make her the fastest in the game, but I don't think it'd break her.

 

[Crystanium]

Samus

• Jab 1: It should have more hit stun. Samus knows how to fight close-up.
• F-smash: Make it stop whiffing. Even after these patches, I've at least had two instances where my opponent didn't shield or spot-dodge, and still wasn't hit by the flame.
• Auto-cancel: Samus had this in one of the worst Smash games. Why doesn't she have this now?
• Charge shot's speed slightly increased: Accel charge was an upgrade in Metroid: Other M. Get the hint?

 

[Radical Larry]

Making her fall faster would be rather counterproductive if you're trying to improve her aerial game. Jigglypuff is a glass cannon and an aerial ace, to make her falling speed higher would go against her character design.

As for air speed buffs, 1.3 is reasonable. It'd make her the fastest in the game, but I don't think it'd break her.

On the other hand, her gravity would be unchanged, if not lowered due to the higher falling speed. And a higher jump on all of her jumps would aid her from the higher falling speed, so really and truly, she'd still have good approach especially with Pound being able to nearly break shields. [It would reduce them like DK's does]

 

[ZeusLink]

Samus

• Auto-cancel: Samus had this in one of the worst Smash games. Why doesn't she have this now?

If you're referring to Brawl, then it could be

A. Brawl is super floaty
B. Samus got nerfed, I think.

 

[MarioMeteor]

On the other hand, her gravity would be unchanged, if not lowered due to the higher falling speed. And a higher jump on all of her jumps would aid her from the higher falling speed, so really and truly, she'd still have good approach especially with Pound being able to nearly break shields. [It would reduce them like DK's does]

Then what's the point of making her fall faster in the first place? It won't improve her air game any, so you might as well stick with the higher air speed and improved aerials and leave it at that.

 

[RedMarf78]

Samus, has 3 auto-cancels already (nair, bair and dair). Did you make a typo or do you think that her current ones aren't good enough?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Do I spy with my little eye DIDDY KONG BUFFS AND BOWSER NERFS

(those were the only ones I looked at, I couldn't bear to see what other balancing decisions were made)

 

[Megazero64]

Now I know this thread is about a fan patch but is there an official thread just about custom skins and colors?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Then what's the point of making her fall faster in the first place? It won't improve her air game any, so you might as well stick with the higher air speed and improved aerials and leave it at that.

Gravity actually affects how quickly a fighter can achieve his/her falling speed value. Fighters with high falling speed values don't always have high gravity, which does enable them to jump higher before they start falling down. Similarly, fighters with lower falling speed values may be given high gravity values (such as with Bowser).

Basically, if you were to increase Rosalina's gravity, she would end up jumping lower than normal. This is further evidenced with the Anchor Jump bonus effect, which offer a 1.4x falling speed and gravity increase.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Gravity actually affects how quickly a fighter can achieve his/her falling speed value. Fighters with high falling speed values don't always have high gravity, which does enable them to jump higher before they start falling down. Similarly, fighters with lower falling speed values may be given high gravity values (such as with Bowser).

Basically, if you were to increase Rosalina's gravity, she would end up jumping lower than normal. This is further evidenced with the Anchor Jump bonus effect, which offer a 1.4x falling speed and gravity increase.

Oh, believe me, as I Roy player I know exactly what gravity is and how it affects people. As nice as lower gravity for Jigglypuff would be, I wouldn't take it if it comes at the cost of higher falling speed.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Is it possible to increase the distance Pound goes? Like not the size of the hitbox but the distance Jigglypuff travels? Basically let it cross up shields better.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Is it possible to increase the distance Pound goes? Like not the size of the hitbox but the distance Jigglypuff travels? Basically let it cross up shields better.

Like in Brawl? I really don't understand why they nerfed that.

 

[Ieter]

I have a Jiggs buff
Weight Increase: 63 -> 72
Uair: Increase horizontal hitbox size
Rollout: Increase KB and Damage globally
Rollout: Re-add Instant Reversal that was removed in 1.0.4 on the 3ds Version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWsLhJ9NLDs

i find jigglypuff really fun except you can kill him with a f-smash at 30 -_-

 

[ElectroLightning]

Have we even discussed Marth buffs?

 

[Derpnaster]

Just make the tip larger and more reliable. He's honestly pretty good as he is.

He's far better off than Link who just ate everyone's startup lag before they released smash 4, well Link and Shulk really

 

[MarioMeteor]

Have we even discussed Marth buffs?

Marth's really good. Only thing I'd do is give forward air better frame data and fix forward smash's hitboxes so they aren't as misleading. Although, he could use a better grab game as well. Maybe that's worth exploring.

 

[Derpnaster]

Knockback Changes to Down Throw to make it better combo into other moves?

Aka, Give Marth a Ho-ha?

 

[ZeusLink]

In 2017, everyone will have a Hoo-Hah.

Well, almost all characters. Also, I think Mii Swordfighter is a largely ignored character. Faster frame data or better kill moves is legit in my opinion.

 

[Derpnaster]

Make is Fiar, uair, and smashes actual kill moves and Mii swordfighter is actually better than Link, Marth, and Ike. He's got really good reach and damage, but he just can't kill. It's like if we took away Cloud's limit break, he'd honestly drop several tiers because he has surprising trouble killing outside a few moves.