Sleepy's Super Awesome Birthday Bash(Battleaxe Chronicles) September 18th, Durham, NC

[Dr Peepee]

Because mms count for prs and they have nothing to do with tournament. Challenge matches had the same relation to prs that playoffs (with no money involved) have to other tournament matches.

Except playoffs are basically tournament matches in that they determine your placing in the tournament and potentially can be for money anyway.

 

[stingers]

karn has a good point about the entry actually. since we do have tourneys a lot less often now it might make sense to increase entry fees. that way we can pay out to 5th and everyone can be happy =]

 

[Dr Peepee]

Not for Brawl though.

 

[stingers]

lol umm okay

 

[Dark Hart]

omg tie breakers make so much sense, why is everyone dancing around it?

 

[Stockfield]

Not for Brawl though.

We actually haven't had many locals lately.

Unless your post wasn't referring to that.

Edit: And yes I say we play for 5-8, if you don't want to try then it's your placement that's going to get screwed. Pay out to top 4 is great though.

 

[stingers]

kevin is just trolling cuz I said that brawl should do top 5 even if melee didnt.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

basically some ppl think that playing for placing matters enough.

I think that if it's a double elimination tournament...then let it be a double elimination tournament. Throwing two people from opposite sides of the bracket together to make this arbitrary extra round for data is useful, but still just as arbitrary and pointed as me just challenging karn for his spot on the pr.

nothing more is at stake between a challenge match and this play out for placing than your name as 5th or 6th, or 7th or 8th. Idc either way, cuz I'm tyin for 13th, but I understand karns view a lot better.

 

[Dr Peepee]

kevin is just trolling cuz I said that brawl should do top 5 even if melee didnt.

Brawl isn't going to have enough people, and I didn't want you trying to make that distinction again.

Edit: Chris, I could easily do the same type of thing. Watch:

Keeping two people who are TIED in tournament and have difficult to discern placings and standings among their peers in such difficult and sometimes inconsistent competition need as much raw data as can possibly be obtained because the ranking period hardly allows for much data considering how little people show up to tournaments in a given period and the amount of pressure from this tournament alone will make them sure to play their hardest.

It's both right and not-right to do that.

Now, to directly refute your point, I'd say that it's your belief that nothing more is at stake, and it may seem that way because you're not in that position. When it comes down to it, most people who enter tournaments want to know exactly where they stand vs everyone else, ESPECIALLY those in the higher end of the tournament placings like what those who would need to play the spots out. Competition is the toughest there typically and it seems fair to give those people a chance to prove exactly where they stand every tournament because it's something you care about(where you stand and just how much your hard work paid off) when you get in those placings in tournament.

 

[stingers]

i'm expecting like 25-26 for brawl. that is good enough. that's a $125 pot, 45% for first is $56, and 2.5% for 5th is 3 bucks each, which is almost entry fee back.

or we could go 50/25/15/5/2.5x2 instead of 45/30/15/5/2.5x2

i don't really care

or increase entry to 7

lots of options.

 

[bossa nova ♪]

kevin talk more baby im in luv

 

[Dr Peepee]

i'm expecting like 25-26 for brawl. that is good enough. that's a $125 pot, 45% for first is $56, and 2.5% for 5th is 3 bucks each, which is almost entry fee back.

or we could go 50/25/15/5/2.5x2 instead of 45/30/15/5/2.5x2

i don't really care

or increase entry to 7

lots of options.

Doesn't really sound worth in to pay out that far for only 25~. Regionals or locals in like big areas like Cali or Tri-state can afford to do that due to the huge numbers that show up, but it doesn't make much sense here to pay out that far for such a small number of people. Make it a real accomplishment to win the money and let those who win it actually get some.

Edit: lol <3 cam.

 

[stingers]

it is a real accomplishment to get top 5 out of 25 people. it's silly we don't have anything to show for it.

 

[*CT*]

Uh sure. Didn't know you played Ganon in Melee thoug.h

I play like every character in Melee except Pikachu.....but that's cause I play Pichu.

@Jon/Sushi- Tell him I want to get a 1$ MM at this? Bo5?

@Stingers/Karn's idea?: Leave the entry fee for this one low so I can enter them all? This will make my day more enjoyable. Remember the little people like Foxy that enter everything?

 

[bossa nova ♪]

it is a real accomplishment to get top 5 out of 25 people. it's silly we don't have anything to show for it.

lol glory?


pretty sure i got nothing at the last billkarn.... and if i did, i def don't remember obv, and that just shows how much it mattered to me. it was enough to get 4th at a stacked *** tourney and place better than $**** my f@ggot *** sensei.

 

[Dr Peepee]

it is a real accomplishment to get top 5 out of 25 people. it's silly we don't have anything to show for it.

It's good enough to feel accomplished and ranked high(you can see the rankings) for it, but to get money for it? Doesn't make a lot of sense because of how little you would get anyway.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

if people cared where they stand so much, why are the pr's never throwing around dollars at each other, or even quarters at each other?

having more tourney matches certainly gives us more data. Should we just make it a round robin tourney once we get to the top 8 though?

I didn't say nothing more was at stake. I'm saying all that IS at stake is a 5th or 6th place on the results threads NC doesn't have. Some would say that a 25 cent mm would have more a stake than a 0 dollar tourney set that takes the two 7th place ppl against each other. Which is more valuable, a name placing, or a piece of bubble gum? Both give the same data but ppl would rather create more tourney matches out of thin air than figure out where they stand on their own.

that to me, seems odd.

 

[stingers]

getting 25th means you lose 5 bucks. getting 17th getting 9th getting 7th etc etc. getting 5th would mean you lose a lil bit less...and you're sharing that with someone else. getting 4th-1st means you profit. even if its 2 bucks who cares?

 

[Dr Peepee]

if people cared where they stand so much, why are the pr's never throwing around dollars at each other, or even quarters at each other?

having more tourney matches certainly gives us more data. Should we just make it a round robin tourney once we get to the top 8 though?

I didn't say nothing more was at stake. I'm saying all that IS at stake is a 5th or 6th place on the results threads NC doesn't have. Some would say that a 25 cent mm would have more a stake than a 0 dollar tourney set that takes the two 7th place ppl against each other. Which is more valuable, a name placing, or a piece of bubble gum? Both give the same data but ppl would rather create more tourney matches out of thin air than figure out where they stand on their own.

that to me, seems odd.

Maybe they prefer tournament matches?

No because RRs take too long, and though that'd be ideal for data, it would suck because people want to watch finals and hyped matches sooner.

NC makes results threads, and this tournament series in particular made them last time and I'm sure they will be made again.

Two 7th place people who become 6th OVER 7th. Another distinction is made, and a clearer definition of a person's skill is shown for that person and everyone else.

Creating tourney matches? Is it not just a final set, a consolation set then? One more set is really "making things up?" It's more definitive proof of an otherwise somewhat ambiguous relationship between two players. And how exactly do you think people find out where they stand on their own anyway? They play tournament matches/MMs.

 

[Dark Hart]

omg tie breakers, **** the popo, **** the money, and **** the idea that it's an "unneeded extra round". We need more info for the PRs and more boost for peoples egos. I don't see why ANYONE is against this idea. Oh boo-hoo you got 9th and can't play an extra game for a tie break, then go practice and do better next time.

 

[Dr Peepee]

getting 25th means you lose 5 bucks. getting 17th getting 9th getting 7th etc etc. getting 5th would mean you lose a lil bit less...and you're sharing that with someone else. getting 4th-1st means you profit. even if its 2 bucks who cares?

Yeah you really didn't argue with anything I said. Guess discussion's over.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i'm not against it, but if we need the data so bad, then i don't see why the people who want this data so bad can just...make it.

having these extra sets are basically asking people who are highly ranked to just play a serious set. for no money, and no getting any further in the tournament, except deciding between those two who gets put higher. we can do this in or out of tournament. karn is saying that if you just want two people who are highly ranked to just play a set for no money, then we should bring back challenge matches, which sound like money matches for no money.

if the concept is all about data gathering, then lets just bring those back too. but i still think that a 25 cent mm does the same type of thing, while making it a mm.

edit: to me it sounds like we're not getting enough data because the people who are in contention for top 10 don't mm each other at all outside of tournament. this, to me, says that they don't care too much about where they stand against each other. i'm sure it makes it hard for the PR's to deal with this fact, so you want to institute tie breakers. and i respect that. i'm just saying that its a "place my name in the 5th slot" mm, and not anything more. it's a pride match. facilitated by tournament placings. but its still a pride match. and if pride matches are being accepted for data, then i wanna pride match the whole PR's and just see what happens, and try again next period. but that sounds like bull****, doesn't it.

 

[Dr Peepee]

i'm not against it, but if we need the data so bad, then i don't see why the people who want this data so bad can just...make it.

having these extra sets are basically asking people who are highly ranked to just play a serious set. for no money, and no getting any further in the tournament, except deciding between those two who gets put higher. we can do this in or out of tournament. karn is saying that if you just want two people who are highly ranked to just play a set for no money, then we should bring back challenge matches, which sound like money matches for no money.

if the concept is all about data gathering, then lets just bring those back too. but i still think that a 25 cent mm does the same type of thing, while making it a mm.

Alright well now that has gone in a full circle, I'll post my response and I guess we'll be done with it.

We don't NEED the data like desperately or anything, but a lot of the time it makes our job as a panel easier. I was trying to show you why overstressing points or somewhat detracting from the focal point of an argument was bad when I did that anyway.

Deciding between those two people in this way can only really be done in tournament, as no pressure or set of other variables besides money can be present in another type of match(save like money/challenge matches but there's a reason those hold less weight), and this is another valuable tournament set that is useful not only for the PR panel, but moreso the players themselves, so they won't have to use that extra time seeking someone out.

Also, playing out ties allows players to see exactly where they stand more clearly which is the point of a tournament anyway. To give more definition to each person's placement is to show EXACTLY how someone placed in a tournament and a clear sign of what they were capable of(bracket willing) at a particular tournament. That's important to players who have a lot to prove and would like to know specifically how they are placing and stacking up against their competition.

Playing for a small amount of money by itself doesn't tend to force people to try as much, but for some it may not matter.


Edit to your edit:

Already went through this, but maybe some people prefer tournament sets(like Karn) and others aren't always around to MM anyway(like Adam).

PR panel is not strapped for data to where we NEED that, but it's nice to have. The purpose isn't for data in my mind so much as it is the players seeing how well they perform.

LOL @ random pride match hate.

 

[Dark Hart]

Chris, if you don't wanna do it, you can place 6th or 8th instead of 5th or 7th, it's on you.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Lol Lucas the kind of posts you've been making about this really antagonize people.

 

[Dark Hart]

I guess that why no one's really been responding to me lol,

I'm sorry I can't see how people don't agree with this, though lol

 

[Dr Peepee]

I guess that why no one's really been responding to me lol,

I'm sorry I can't see how people don't agree with this, though lol

Yeah well, that's where tolerance comes in.

Lucky for me I tolerate most everything(save myself or other odd things) so I **** at seeing other arguments lol. Chris has a fair point.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

so you're saying a match for deciding 5th or 6th matters more than an actual money match. got it.

i don't really care either way. i've been wanting this to happen for a while. but upon looking at it, it just looks like a 0 dollar mm aka a pride match between the 2 5th places, or the 2 7th places. and i'm okay with that. but saying its something grandiose simply because its "in tournament" seems silly.

 

[Dark Hart]

Just think of it as adding to tournament results, Chris.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Fair enough bro. =)

 

[Bl@ckChris]

well now that we've argued...

maria, are we doing tiebreakers?

 

[Stockfield]

Alright well now that has gone in a full circle, I'll post my response and I guess we'll be done with it.

I like how you always put this everytime there is an argument lol.

Chris, if you don't wanna do it, you can place 6th or 8th instead of 5th or 7th, it's on you.

But he makes a good point, you don't want to try you can get 6th or 8th.

 

[bossa nova ♪]

kevin some people are ******* cuz they're not u

im one of them

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

wow i can't believe this argument is still going on

if you guys don't care about the matches then that's your own fault and it shouldn't take a few dollars to make you try in them. you lose, you lose. period. if there are enough people then we pay out to 5th, if there aren't you suck it up and try to get whatever placing it pays out to. if you place 5th or 7th you sit your *** there and play another **** set and if you don't like it don't ***** when the pr's come out and you're not on them or really low or whatever

 

[KoozyK]

wow i can't believe this argument is still going on

if you guys don't care about the matches then that's your own fault and it shouldn't take a few dollars to make you try in them. you lose, you lose. period. if there are enough people then we pay out to 5th, if there aren't you suck it up and try to get whatever placing it pays out to. if you place 5th or 7th you sit your *** there and play another **** set and if you don't like it don't ***** when the pr's come out and you're not on them or really low or whatever

and yay comes in for the kill!!

 

[Dr Peepee]

wow i can't believe this argument is still going on

if you guys don't care about the matches then that's your own fault and it shouldn't take a few dollars to make you try in them. you lose, you lose. period. if there are enough people then we pay out to 5th, if there aren't you suck it up and try to get whatever placing it pays out to. if you place 5th or 7th you sit your *** there and play another **** set and if you don't like it don't ***** when the pr's come out and you're not on them or really low or whatever

It was mostly over anyway lol but

thisssssssssss

 

[Purple]

Well, what's the number that permits you guys paying out to 5th?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Well, what's the number that permits you guys paying out to 5th?

Kinda depends on the payout system, but we all have a general idea for that, and the numbers don't seem large enough for me personally for Melee(which is getting around 55~ players I'd guess), so they definitely wouldn't make the cut for Brawl then.

Payout for top 4 is reasonable enough for Melee here though I suppose. I could see an argument for top 5 in Melee but I'm not wild about the idea still.

 

[Dark Hart]

I think top4 for this tourney is enough, and I also think 5th-8th should be played out

 

[Juno McGrath]

Who gives a ****?

Just play the game. If your in it for the money you picked the wrong game.

Go play halo or something.