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SINGLES Lucario Match-Ups and Directory! Mario will brb saving a princess

phi1ny3

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btw I think Snake is 40:60 disadvantage again :\
Diddy I think is 50:50. I don't think we have an advantage, it's kind of like Peach or TL where it's almost like the general strategy is to some how get some hits/strings in and almost get virtually sandbagged up until later percents where we start catching up.
 

phi1ny3

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I'm trying to look at the banana AS scenario, banana can make a lot of problems for Diddy if he glidetosses (if anyone wants me to go into detail, I'll explain), but if he doesn't do conventional Diddy stuff and jumps more, I'm wondering if it's zone based...
This is when I wish I could pull up more recent videos of Diddy v. Lucario and see if they do what I theoretically Lucario should do to play the MU right.
Here's my other qualm, here we have arguably the best Lucario against one of the best Diddies on this MU. However, ADHD plays against Ksizzle and I'm sure he's had run-ins with Zucco and RT.
 

Kitamerby

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Diddy can outcamp falco. In what means can Lucario outcamp him. You have one projectile, I have 3. Without f-smash, how will lucario be killing diddy early? Bair has atrocious ending lag/cooldown(dont remember which one it is) and dair as already discussed is not really a good option. Diddy has sure fire setups into kill moves while lucario doesn't. Btw...dmg is a wario main :)
There's a problem though with those.

Firstly, on the camping point, I somewhat agree with your concept, but I do not agree with your reasoning. The number of different projectiles one has at their disposal does not equate to their performance at camping. Peanut Popgun may be a stellar interrupt or harassment tool, but Aura Sphere trumps it in camping no matter how you look at it. You should've just said that bananas are better at camping than Aura Sphere and left it at that, plus the fact that no character wants to give Diddy Kong enough room to set up both bananas. I'm not sure if he outcamps Falco though. I'll need to look into that one a bit more.

Secondly, funny thing about Bair. It actually has very little cooldown. It actually has relatively little landing lag, and the time between the hitboxes' disappearance and the end of the attack is very short. Sadly, it's cursed with a relatively slow startup of 15 frames to balance out its range, power, and lack of cooldown. A funny thing about Fsmash too, is that in all honesty, Lucario's fsmash really isn't his best kill move imo. I honestly think Aura Sphere is a much better kill move, especially in this matchup, as it has more range goes through bananas, and he DOESN'T TAKE A STEP FORWARDS SO NO TRIPPING YAAAAY! Anyways, I think Lucario would be killing in this matchup mostly with Aura Sphere, Dair, Uair, and gimps, not in that order.


Thirdly, on the killing point, if we consider when Lucario will be dying at, let's say 150%, then we begin to realize that Lucario technically doesn't need set-ups into kill moves, as at that percent, all his moves will kill or set up for edgeguards all by themselves without a required set-up. Also, the fact is that by the time Lucario reaches his "death percents" in this matchup, Diddy Kong's "death percentages" will become much lower than Lucario's. Will this matter much? Dunno, depends how far behind the Lucario is in percent. It just means that even if the Diddy Kong is far ahead in terms of percent, he isn't exactly safe from being KO'd.




Fair outranges all of your aerials and bair comes out faster than all your aerials. Not to mention Side B.
However, there's a problem here, as well.

While in sheer range, Fair may have more overall distance covered than any of our aerials, you need to realize a few things. First of all, Diddy Kong's forward aerial does not have any disjoint able to match Lucario's Bair, and as such, Bair wins the confrontation every time. In this case, your statement has been proven wrong. You are on to something, however. In a normal trade, Diddy Kong's forward aerial will beat out our Fair, which is normally our most used aerial, when we attempt to confront it head-on directly horizontally at the Fair's maximum horizontal range. However, Lucario not only has a much better air speed to support this aerial, but his Fair generally has better overall coverage, allowing him to attack Diddy Kong somewhat safely (from his fair) when he approaches at odd angles. If you want to be technical as well, our Fair is faster by one frame. =D

Your second statement is outright wrong, however. If you are talking about startup, then Diddy Kong's bair has hitboxes on frame 5 apparently. Meanwhile, Lucario's dair activates on frame 4. If you are talking about end time, then both Lucario's fair and dair still beat it by multiple frames. If you were trying to be silly and implying that it actually had an advantageous effect for you in an aerial combat situation, you should realize that Bair has both poor coverage AND poor range compared to our aerials, and the 1-2 frame difference in startup between our fair and your bair means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING as our fair will still win in a confrontation every single time from nearly any angle concievable. Good day, sir.

You should've mentioned uair. That move actually does outspeed our entire moveset at 3 frames.

Monkey Flip is weird and easy to beat out and react to in most situations. I don't know why you mentioned it.


Every chr. has to deal with lucario's aura, not just diddy. This is not something that changes the matchup in his favor. Yes it is hard to kill lucario, guess what, its hard for diddy to kill nearly everyone. Its not uncommon for chrs. to live to 160-170 against diddy. That percent hardly matters when he's outputting nearly 40% each combo string.
Believe me when I say that there's a real difference between Mario living to 170% and Lucario living to 170%. When Mario lives to 170%, you will still die at 100-190% if you fall prey to his Usmash or Fsmash. When Lucario lives to 170%, you need to be much more careful, as nearly his entire moveset will take you out easily as early as 80-90% if you are not careful. To Lucario, a percent lead generally means nothing if you aren't planning to time him out, as giving him more damage just means that you can potentially die earlier. This can potentially shift the tide of a match much more drastically than most other matchups.


Also in regards to AS. Diddy can just jump over it and throw a naner. Simple enough. Lulu has lag after firing. This can also stop Lulu from "camping" with AS. I can't honestly believe this matchup is in lucario's favor after playing the best lucario's out there. If only lee would post his thoughts...
If you are in a situation in which you can do this, Lucario did something horrendously wrong. Seriously.

I don't doubt your experience, but your reasoning is flawed as all hell.
 

Browny

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Every chr. has to deal with lucario's aura, not just diddy. This is not something that changes the matchup in his favor. Yes it is hard to kill lucario, guess what, its hard for diddy to kill nearly everyone. Its not uncommon for chrs. to live to 160-170 against diddy. That percent hardly matters when he's outputting nearly 40% each combo string.
Please dont tell me youre missing the glaringly obvious point that ADHD made

it refers to how Lucario cannot begin to reliably KO snake unless he is at around 50-60% himself, and snake at like 140+. as oppose to being able to KO diddy at 70% with an fsmash when lucario is at 140%.

it makes a HUGE deal how high % lucario lives to vs any given character, ESPECIALLY when dealing with heavyweights. Diddy doesnt exactly have it easy being on the far end of the KO % spectrum and below middleweight :/
 

Gea

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lol, please don't tell me you;re assuming that Gnes isn't aware of Aura. He's seen full-power Aura in teams with Dphat and Lee (and won, too). He knows how to be careful or die at 20% (!!!!)

The thing you're missing is the fact that you have no reliable way to get that kill. At all. Throwing out fsmashes might be safe in other matchups, but definitely isn't in this one. I mean its like saying Mario can kill at 100% flat. Yeah, if he gets the jablock or you walk into his fsmash near the edge. Sure, that's a bit more extreme than the example, but what you're saying has less and less bearing the higher level of play you get.

Diddy's killmoves: setups you can't get out of

Lucario's: mindgames/stage control ????? profit

It is in no way in Lucario's favor, even at best.

Also lol @ jumping over AS. <3 Gnes for stealan my tricks.

EDIT: Also LOL @ Kitamerby. You're degating one of his points about avoiding AS by saying the "Lucario is doing it wrong if you can do that" (which, honestly, the Lucario has to be positioned perfectly for AS to even pose a threat with no chance of punishment AND you're referring to outcamping a Diddy) but then you also say "Flip jump is so easy to beat lolololol"

Son, the whole "u ain't doin it right" goes both ways, and frankly every time I see you post you are playing EXTREME THEORY. Just because you have an option around something (retreating bair to Diddy's fair) doesn't mean it is applicable as "cancelling" out that move. Bair leaves you extremely vulernable to nanners and it isn't like he can't have one in his hand and fair you at the same time. Z drop to aerial regrab is easy as hell. Besides that, you can't turn around that quick while you're in the air. If you want to stay back turned the entire match, go for it. Your best aerial control is forcing a mistake and locking him into a wall of fairs at low/mid % or offstage. Other than that you're just gonna be poking at him while he throws nanners, punishes your approaches and generally just annoys you and waits for you to do anything. Your bair is great if you can bait him, but he doesn't have to approach without safety. Thus, while it is a legit thing to bring up the usefulness of bair as a defensive move, it doesn't sway the matchup as a whole.

That is, unless you can find us a video of two people representing each side well and one walling the other with bair entirely. (like Peach can do to Wario, sorta)

Also you never responded to my question about why your sig has boobs.
 

PhantomX

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*Puts on shades to shield his eyes from the EXPOSURE*

Also, I thought it was generally agreed that LeeMartin is the best Lucario...and he hates Lucario vs good Diddys that know the matchup...
 

Browny

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Full charge Aura sphere offstage to intercept monkey flip or dair to intercept rocket barrels seem like semi-legit KO set ups to me... you cant avoid one of those two forever :/

I know obviously gnes knows about aura etc but its absurd to think Diddy doesnt have to deal with aura any more than any other characters. Honestly if you draw a spectrum of KO% / Weight, which directly correlates to how much of an effect Aura has on a matchup, Diddy is right at the bottom with Shiek & Jigglypuff :/

Thats obviously where the whole ability to avoid KO moves / set up their own comes in to place but thats another discussion altogether
 

Gea

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He can camp WAY harder/safer than any character that also has issues with aura, thus negating the harshness of it. I'd say it starts as not that easy for a matchup for Diddy until they learn to be safe.

I do agree that AS will eventually be a good edgeguard, and if Diddy "slips up" (hyuk hyuk) its possible to kill him much earlier than he can you. But his advantages definitely outweight that.
 

Kitamerby

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lol, please don't tell me you;re assuming that Gnes isn't aware of Aura. He's seen full-power Aura in teams with Dphat and Lee (and won, too). He knows how to be careful or die at 20% (!!!!)
If Lucario is at full power in teams it means he's behind 2 people 2 stocks. That's a bad thing. Lucario is bad in teams.


The thing you're missing is the fact that you have no reliable way to get that kill. At all. Throwing out fsmashes might be safe in other matchups, but definitely isn't in this one. I mean its like saying Mario can kill at 100% flat. Yeah, if he gets the jablock or you walk into his fsmash near the edge. Sure, that's a bit more extreme than the example, but what you're saying has less and less bearing the higher level of play you get.
Everything Lucario has kills at high % except fair and jab. The rest except Dtilt set up for edgeguards anyways, which Lucario excels at in this matchup.


EDIT: Also LOL @ Kitamerby. You're degating one of his points about avoiding AS by saying the "Lucario is doing it wrong if you can do that" (which, honestly, the Lucario has to be positioned perfectly for AS to even pose a threat with no chance of punishment AND you're referring to outcamping a Diddy) but then you also say "Flip jump is so easy to beat lolololol"
No, I'm saying that Aura Sphere should never be used when both characters are neutral and he has so much time to react he can just jump over it and throw a banana. :\

I also never mentioned once anything about Lucario outcamping Diddy overall.

Not getting it.
Reread what I've stated. You're not getting the point of my post. The bair was merely a passing comment and you're pretending like it's the topic of my entire argument.

I also believe you are SEVERELY overestimating Diddy's advantages and severely undermining Lucario's own advantages.


Also, just because Lee may be the most accomplished Lucario doesn't mean he's the best person to turn to when discussing it. :\
 

Gea

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What Diddy main do you play against again? I seem to have forgotten where you get your data.

Also, if you weren't aware, planking MK + letting Lucario do everything (and steal stock from that MK) = rigged in teams. MK controls an entire edge/ saves Lucario from getting surrounded and Lucario does the rest. It works extremely well as a glass cannon setup. Enough to get 2nd at a major tournament and win money.

And you still won't answer my question about your sig.

P.S. Glad you dropped the whole bair/flipjump thing. It was silly.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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*Puts on shades to shield his eyes from the EXPOSURE*

Also, I thought it was generally agreed that LeeMartin is the best Lucario...and he hates Lucario vs good Diddys that know the matchup...
Most people think he is, I've heard arguments for Ksizzle being as good or better.

I'll address the other posts in this thread in a sec.
 

Kitamerby

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What Diddy main do you play against again? I seem to have forgotten where you get your data.
Pretty all of the data I've stated for this is simple game stats and hitbox size and placement comparisons.

Also, if you weren't aware, planking MK + letting Lucario do everything (and steal stock from that MK) = rigged in teams. MK controls an entire edge/ saves Lucario from getting surrounded and Lucario does the rest. It works extremely well as a glass cannon setup. Enough to get 2nd at a major tournament and win money.
Lucario is still a horrid teammate. It doesn't matter what you say or who's done well with it. Aura does not work to his advantage at all in teams, and he's not a good enough character to begin with, so he's still smacked around by the better characters easily.

And you still won't answer my question about your sig.
If you don't already know, then you should probably go to a different board.

P.S. Glad you dropped the whole bair/flipjump thing. It was silly.
I didn't. Flip jump is still a bad option offensively in this matchup against a spaced Lucario. Luc's Bair beats Diddy's Fair when they are pitted against each other.
 

Gea

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Pretty all of the data I've stated for this is simple game stats and hitbox size and placement comparisons.
Do you know why they field test inventions before instantly using the product? Because what is on paper and what happens in reality can be two very different things.

You should use empirical data to supplement discussion, but it has pretty much been proven that in practice matchups/ what works and what doesn't can be very different.

Lucario is still a horrid teammate. It doesn't matter what you say or who's done well with it. Aura does not work to his advantage at all in teams, and he's not a good enough character to begin with, so he's still smacked around by the better characters easily.
He has an instance of doing extremely well. Just like ZSS + GW.

If you don't already know, then you should probably go to a different board.
I bet you like Lucario's feet.

I didn't. Flip jump is still a bad option offensively in this matchup against a spaced Lucario. Luc's Bair beats Diddy's Fair when they are pitted against each other.
Terrible argument. Flipjump is used when you shield/ throw out something low priority because you are being pressured, otherwise you can walkaway punish it, yes. Matches don't happen with two people staring at each other and you waiting for the person to do something and react. Once again, you neglect the fact that you have to be turned around (and at a pretty far distance) for this to be effective. Near point plank flip jump does not leave you time to bair. Nor if you are in your shield facing the Diddy. It just isn't practical.

Think about Flip jump roughly how you would Wario's bite. It is deceptively good and is excellent at what it does.

I will say plenty of Diddys use flip jump from the edge and can be baited, but many don't, so its just an option.
 

phi1ny3

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*Puts on shades to shield his eyes from the EXPOSURE*

Also, I thought it was generally agreed that LeeMartin is the best Lucario...and he hates Lucario vs good Diddys that know the matchup...
Not imo at least with more people like June/Zucco who've been able to place with solid Lucario. I still think he knows a ton of stuff about this game though, like a loooooot.
 

Gea

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It is a good point that Lee might just not be as good at the matchup as other Lucario mains around his skill level. We all have bad personal matchups. Still, everything I've said I believe.
 

Kitamerby

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Do you know why they field test inventions before instantly using the product? Because what is on paper and what happens in reality can be two very different things.

You should use empirical data to supplement discussion, but it has pretty much been proven that in practice matchups/ what works and what doesn't can be very different.
The only data I've been giving has been supplemental.



He has an instance of doing extremely well. Just like ZSS + GW.
More like Anyone + MK, which that was. <<




I bet you like Lucario's feet.
Def need to head to a different board.



Terrible argument. Flipjump is used when you shield/ throw out something low priority because you are being pressured, otherwise you can walkaway punish it, yes. Matches don't happen with two people staring at each other and you waiting for the person to do something and react. Once again, you neglect the fact that you have to be turned around (and at a pretty far distance) for this to be effective. Near point plank flip jump does not leave you time to bair. Nor if you are in your shield facing the Diddy. It just isn't practical.
Near point blank you should've been hit by then. It's not like Diddy has an air speed where you'd suddenly be surprised that he was right next to you. His air speed is crap....

...Wait wait wait

Are you honestly reading that I'm saying that Bair is the entire answer Lucario has for Flip Jump?

Are you seriously implying that I'd state to use a 15 frame attack to counter a 19 frame grab?

I think we got lost in translation, here.
Think about Flip jump roughly how you would Wario's bite. It is deceptively good and is excellent at what it does.
Except Wario's Bite's duration can be extended, can be used while falling, is much easier to use due to Wario being Wario, and activates on frame 8 instead of frame 19 with an extremely obvious startup animation. They cannot be compared.

I will say plenty of Diddys use flip jump from the edge and can be baited, but many don't, so its just an option.
Flip jump from the ledge isn't even what I'm talking about. Flip jump is just a bad attack. It's an okay recovery, but a horrid offensive option.
 

phi1ny3

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I'm going to have to ask you guys to take it to PMs probably before it gets out of hand D:
So far I haven't heard much about what Lucario should do, only debunking and the like (notice how it wasn't flame or anything like that). What are key components? I think AS, fair/bair, and dair (not as an attack/punish, more for the momentum halting properties more than anything) are really important, and for ground moves, jab and utilt for playing this MU.
 

Kitamerby

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I'm going to have to ask you guys to take it to PMs probably before it gets out of hand D:
We aren't getting out of hand, you furry nitwit.

Also, I personally think the edgeguard game is vital here for Lucario. You need to know how to harass and/or gimp him offstage.
 

Aurasmash14

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btw I think Snake is 40:60 disadvantage again :\
Diddy I think is 50:50. I don't think we have an advantage, it's kind of like Peach or TL where it's almost like the general strategy is to some how get some hits/strings in and almost get virtually sandbagged up until later percents where we start catching up.
When was it ever NOT 60:40??

just by reading both arguments, I go 50-50. it mostly goes to stages to shift the numbers.
 

Gnes

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Flipjump is a bad move......

.........


At this point its going to theorycraft wars. I'll end my part in this and just say the matchup is even though tourney results completely say otherwise.
 

iRJi

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What Diddy main do you play against again? I seem to have forgotten where you get your data.

Also, if you weren't aware, planking MK + letting Lucario do everything (and steal stock from that MK) = rigged in teams. MK controls an entire edge/ saves Lucario from getting surrounded and Lucario does the rest. It works extremely well as a glass cannon setup. Enough to get 2nd at a major tournament and win money.

And you still won't answer my question about your sig.

P.S. Glad you dropped the whole bair/flipjump thing. It was silly.
For the teams thing, I was going to make a post about that a bit later, as well as another project or 2 after the these MU's are done.

We are almost done people, with everything. Finish up with last min. information, and post your MU numbers.
 
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i read the last two pages and alot of it seemed very hostile ~__~ not cool luca-bros/instigator people

also what gea (howeveryouspellit) about the MK lucario team thing, yeah its pretty busted, thats one ledge your opponent cant touch also while lucario is whiddling away at the other team, the moment he share stocks on of MKs stock his aura is boosted, if you dont think aura is useful in teams under any circumstances you might wanna double check that, because like gea said, you dont get 2nd at a major tournament by luck or a bad strategy
 

phi1ny3

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Flipjump is a bad move......

.........


At this point its going to theorycraft wars. I'll end my part in this and just say the matchup is even though tourney results completely say otherwise.
Wai- what happened to Lucario slayah?
This sounds facetious lol.

Flip jump's okay imo, it helps as a conditioning tool/mixup, but I've seen it get punished a lot more than what some people give it credit for.
 

Gnes

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Wai- what happened to Lucario slayah?
This sounds facetious lol.

Flip jump's okay imo, it helps as a conditioning tool/mixup, but I've seen it get punished a lot more than what some people give it credit for.
LOLZ

I never said I wasn't a lucario slayer...but i have no way to prove through theorycraft that my chr. has the advantage in this matchup. Now I'm left with tourney results, which, well, you know the answer to that. So in a attempt to compromise with the masses, I state the matchup is even, even though i personally believe 100% that its not. That's all.

A Lucario in teams that has loss his stock and takes one from his nearly untouched mk partner kills diddy at 40% with a f-smash. 70% for force palm(not the grab/the fire lol). Both of these happened to me personally :(
 

RT

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Anubis strategy, why are you so good?
 

phi1ny3

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btw we skipped over Wario a little too quickly imo. Although atm, I'm more interested in rediscussing G&W, ROB, and Marth (especially if Lee could post, I found out the reason he hasn't been on much)
 

iRJi

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btw we skipped over Wario a little too quickly imo. Although atm, I'm more interested in rediscussing G&W, ROB, and Marth (especially if Lee could post, I found out the reason he hasn't been on much)
I continued the MU because people didn't want to post anything about it. It went almost 2 days without something that actually was useful.

Also, as much as I want things to be accurate, If people are not going to talk about it, or don't have information about it, then it would be best to move on, and possibly come back again if needed. We are almost done, we only have about 4-5 characters to redo left, going back to 1 wouldn't be much of an issue =].
 

Kitamerby

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i read the last two pages and alot of it seemed very hostile ~__~ not cool luca-bros/instigator people
It wasn't hostile.

also what gea (howeveryouspellit) about the MK lucario team thing, yeah its pretty busted, thats one ledge your opponent cant touch also while lucario is whiddling away at the other team, the moment he share stocks on of MKs stock his aura is boosted, if you dont think aura is useful in teams under any circumstances you might wanna double check that, because like gea said, you dont get 2nd at a major tournament by luck or a bad strategy
They obviously did. Aura is a nightmare in teams. Lucario has to be losing to ALL OPPONENTS to get any sort of boost. Even worse, if he's the last person remaining, then he gets a permanent debuff as if he was two stocks ahead, and then he needs to use that to somehow take out his final opponent. :\

LOLZ

I never said I wasn't a lucario slayer...but i have no way to prove through theorycraft that my chr. has the advantage in this matchup. Now I'm left with tourney results, which, well, you know the answer to that. So in a attempt to compromise with the masses, I state the matchup is even, even though i personally believe 100% that its not. That's all.
Then don't theorycraft. Just say what happened. D:
 

~ Gheb ~

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Diddy Kong wins 55/45. His ground game completely wrecks Lucario because he can intercept everything we can do on the ground with a banana. Lucario is just too slow on startup to be able to challenge Diddy on the ground. If you want to use a ground move Diddy will be usually quick enough to do something about it. The only realiable moves that Lucario has on the ground are Pivot Grab and Aura Sphere both of which are rather situational. Lucarios best moves are fair and dair but neither can deal remotely the damage Diddy can do in much less time. KOing Diddy is a pain. Fsmash is hard to hit with and so is bair, which leaves you with Aura Sphere. In this match-up I find it impossible to fight without that move making it stale in the process by the time you could KO him. I rarely manage to KO a smart Diddy (a Diddy that watches out for the AS at high %) before 150% or 160%. By the time you get Diddy that high you probably lost your stock already.

:059:
 

iRJi

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Diddy Kong wins 55/45. His ground game completely wrecks Lucario because he can intercept everything we can do on the ground with a banana. Lucario is just too slow on startup to be able to challenge Diddy on the ground. If you want to use a ground move Diddy will be usually quick enough to do something about it. The only realiable moves that Lucario has on the ground are Pivot Grab and Aura Sphere both of which are rather situational. Lucarios best moves are fair and dair but neither can deal remotely the damage Diddy can do in much less time. KOing Diddy is a pain. Fsmash is hard to hit with and so is bair, which leaves you with Aura Sphere. In this match-up I find it impossible to fight without that move making it stale in the process by the time you could KO him. I rarely manage to KO a smart Diddy (a Diddy that watches out for the AS at high %) before 150% or 160%. By the time you get Diddy that high you probably lost your stock already.

:059:
I thought this was valid, but after reading it a few times, it pointed out to me that its not. Here is why.

You stated that Lucario needs speed to intercept diddy, but one of your examples was AS. I would like to point out that AS is one of his slowest attacks overall, as it resides at frame 19 on release.

You also state that If we use a ground move, diddy will be able to do something abotu it due to his speed. This is not the case. This is in a constant assumption that Lucario is the one who is always going to do something first, which in most cases isn't the real idea. Diddy's movement options are also punishable, but a good amount too. So it works vise versa in that statement.

Killing Diddy isn't that big of a deal. It is actually more of a struggle to kill lucario then it is to kill diddy, just off of the shear fact that we are heavier by a considerable amount. Then, you can add the fact that since we can live up to a good percent, dealing damage is a lot easier. Our kill power also goes up to a good amount too. I don't like to use the example of us being at really high percents, so always take into account when I say something like this we are around an average percent. 60~80ish.

Fsmash is hard to use in this MU, but who really cares. Lucario has plenty of moves outside of Fsmash that are viable. Don't forget this.

The last sentance:

"I rarely manage to KO a smart Diddy (a Diddy that watches out for the AS at high %) before 150% or 160%. By the time you get Diddy that high you probably lost your stock already."

This is a bad statement, so im just going to say that and leave it there.
 

Browny

Smash Hater
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
10,416
Location
Video Games
when you only attempt to KO with fsmash/AS well duh youre not going to KO diddy early. with the %'s lucario can live to, almost any attack will outright KO diddy except fair, DA and b/u/dthrow. Yes f/d/utilt f/d/usmash d/u/n/bair DT and fthrow will KO... uair especially.
 

ADHD

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
7,194
Location
New Jersey
Lucario players suck. There we go. Gnes, we both have been winning merely because we are better players than the lucarios we face. Lee martin isn't smart, he's really good, but not smart. Trela, you are better than if the PR says right. The fact remains that we are better players even during the times that they are going even with us because of the aura and slight matchup advantage they have over us.

The point that I am making IS NOT invalid, the same thing happens with olimar. There are no phenominal olimar players out there to outclass the top diddys, and I had come to the conclusion that it was slightly in our favor or dead even. Then I met r.brown who was semi-near me and I felt the matchup was for once against us.

Idk if you spam your smashes repeatedly and stale them or what, but the majority of the cast dies against us at 140. Lucario dies at 140, but his aura makes it such a struggle to trip him at that percent by the time he's there. We wreck lucario at low percents, but then he makes comebacks and takes the first stock off. Then it just repeats.

Don't mind that first sentence guys XD
 

iRJi

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
2,423
lucario Players Suck. There We Go. Gnes, We Both Have Been Winning Merely Because We Are Better Players Than The Lucarios We Face. Lee Martin Isn't Smart, He's Really Good, But Not Smart. Trela, You Are Better Than If The Pr Says Right. The Fact Remains That We Are Better Players Even During The Times That They Are Going Even With Us Because Of The Aura And Slight Matchup Advantage They Have Over Us.

The Point That I Am Making Is Not Invalid, The Same Thing Happens With Olimar. There Are No Phenominal Olimar Players Out There To Outclass The Top Diddys, And I Had Come To The Conclusion That It Was Slightly In Our Favor Or Dead Even. Then I Met R.brown Who Was Semi-near Me And I Felt The Matchup Was For Once Against Us.

Idk If You Spam Your Smashes Repeatedly And Stale Them Or What, But The Majority Of The Cast Dies Against Us At 140. Lucario Dies At 140, But His Aura Makes It Such A Struggle To Trip Him At That Percent By The Time He's There. We Wreck Lucario At Low Percents, But Then He Makes Comebacks And Takes The First Stock Off. Then It Just Repeats.

Don't Mind That First Sentence Guys Xd
Lololololololol, Wait until you go back to the Zb house XD.
 

F1ZZ

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
1,202
Location
Toronto, Canada
Lucario players suck. There we go. Gnes, we both have been winning merely because we are better players than the lucarios we face. Lee martin isn't smart, he's really good, but not smart. Trela, you are better than if the PR says right. The fact remains that we are better players even during the times that they are going even with us because of the aura and slight matchup advantage they have over us.

The point that I am making IS NOT invalid, the same thing happens with olimar. There are no phenominal olimar players out there to outclass the top diddys, and I had come to the conclusion that it was slightly in our favor or dead even. Then I met r.brown who was semi-near me and I felt the matchup was for once against us.

Idk if you spam your smashes repeatedly and stale them or what, but the majority of the cast dies against us at 140. Lucario dies at 140, but his aura makes it such a struggle to trip him at that percent by the time he's there. We wreck lucario at low percents, but then he makes comebacks and takes the first stock off. Then it just repeats.

Don't mind that first sentence guys XD
This post made my day but also brought up some good points.
 

phi1ny3

Not the Mama
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
9,649
Location
in my SCIENCE! lab
Lucario players suck. There we go. Gnes, we both have been winning merely because we are better players than the lucarios we face. Lee martin isn't smart, he's really good, but not smart. Trela, you are better than if the PR says right. The fact remains that we are better players even during the times that they are going even with us because of the aura and slight matchup advantage they have over us.

The point that I am making IS NOT invalid, the same thing happens with olimar. There are no phenominal olimar players out there to outclass the top diddys, and I had come to the conclusion that it was slightly in our favor or dead even. Then I met r.brown who was semi-near me and I felt the matchup was for once against us.

Idk if you spam your smashes repeatedly and stale them or what, but the majority of the cast dies against us at 140. Lucario dies at 140, but his aura makes it such a struggle to trip him at that percent by the time he's there. We wreck lucario at low percents, but then he makes comebacks and takes the first stock off. Then it just repeats.

Don't mind that first sentence guys XD
Actually, tbh, I don't mind it. I probably can't speak for the others who've placed well with Lucario, but I've heard many times over that Lucario's game is STILL underdeveloped in this time. This is further explained by the fact that I haven't seen a Lucario that has done the things I think should be proper in this MU, but then again, there aren't as many Lucario videos as I would like period :p
 

Trela

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Messages
1,748
Location
Cypress, TX
I definately agree with you, ADHD.

I hope in the future to help Lucario like no one has ever seen. I must learn more, though! *needs a stronger mind*
 
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