Simpsons Mafia: will homer survive?

[#HBC | Mac]

D1 Vote Count:

[1]KevinM: Omis
[1]Mentosman: Gheb
[3]Rockin: KevinM, Cacti, Omni
[4]Gheb: McFox, Rockin, Frozenflame, Riddle

With 11 alive it takes, 6 to lynch!

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Now, on to response to Omni and Gheb. The reason I put the vote on him to put him at -1 was in part due to reactions. Having just read through a lot of the thread, I saw he wasn't likely to be hammered quickly(which is why I'm unvoting now, as Cacti has implied he may do so soon).

I guess I'm a prophet then because in my response to your post I mentioned Cacti as a potential hammer dropper. Just one post afterwards he mentioned that he feels like doing so. Can you really say that me being concerned about being @ L-1 wasn't justified under these circumstances?

Honestly, I think you slightly underrated the situation becuase I was hella close to a lynch with Cacti dropping the hammer being not impossible - and I said so myself just a post before. I was concerned about it before but didn't mention it because I thought that dropping the hammer on me = scum was obivious. Now that Kevin voted Rockin instead of me I'm not sure about this at all anymore because he might jump back + another bandwagoner = early lynch.

1. His OMGUS on me. He says I have weak reasons for voting him, then returns my vote with one of his(mind, in the very next reply he makes) on me. There are some types of OMGUS that make some sense, but that was the kind that sticks out to me.

I dunno about that. In retrospect you could call it an OMGUS because you explained your point better AFTERWARDS and solidified your point. You first post was basically somebody else's accusation + random metagaming + BWing and that does look scummy in my book, especially when you put me @ L-1 at that time where Kevin might've jumped back on me or Cacti was inclined to hammer me. This may not be a good argument for you but since I know I'm not scum your post stuck out particularily BWish but since you posted your reasons I don't find you suspicious tbh.

2. I mentioned him Name claiming, and he responded on why role-claiming was bad. A name claim doesn't necessarily out a role(some may, but many may not) and gives us some insight to him. The more important thing is that he blatantly avoided answering what I was actually saying by talking about a role claim instead of a name claim. With the deadline presumably about 3 days away(the game started on the 31st, and although I can't find Mac having mentioned the exact deadline anywhere, but he said in the rules the deadline would be about 14 days, meaning the 14th would be our last day. It's **** well time to claim at least a name so we have time to think about our other options or at least if he's anything useful get votes on NL so he isn't force-lynched by the deadline.

Nameclaiming only leads to more speculation. If I claimed to be some random simpson character like Seymor Skinner or Moe would you really know anything about my role? Would you know if I'm town, indie or scum? Not really. Hell, even somebody, who appears to be "obviously" town like Flanders could be indie in this scenario.
At best I make town speculate about my role, which only wastes further time for scum to coast their way through D1 without suspicioun and make the issue more complicated than it already is.

3. Most importantly, his reaction to me putting him at -1. He had been there for a while before, and didn't solidly complain about it, but as soon as I put him there it was a big deal to him. That to me indicates selective argument, and I'm assuming he decided to push it on me due to my inactivity. Selective arguments are a good sign of scum, wanting to argue the players they see more of an opening on instead of others.

already answered above.

Gheb, to you specifically, you say it's "too early" to claim, but the deadline is likely a few days away and we need time to talk if you claim an important character. Fact of the matter is, it's the time of day when a nameclaim by the vast top vote getter of the day is extremely helpful to town, and your refusal to do so is frustrating.

Meh, I already wrote some other reasons why claiming doesn't help town no matter if it's name- or roleclaiming. You should read it if you didn't do it already (which makes me wonder why you don't mention it).

It's technically not too early to claim anymore but I have better reasons not to claim.

You may have mentioned lynching based on inactivity. However, you're trying to take credit for starting the current discussion:

The above quote is: a lie. You did nothing perfectly that lead to the discussion we're having right now, I did. You're trying to take credit for starting town discussion to counter the accusations against you stifling discussion, when that just flat-out isn't true.

1) You haven't "proved" that stifling discussion between 2 people is bad. There is no reason you couldn't have called out inactive players WHILE Riddle and Cacti were arguing. Instead you had to interrupt them. You still haven't answered: What if Cacti is scum? The only response to this you've given is "Well statistically he probably isn't." Yeah, statistically we ALL aren't. And yet: some of us are. What if Cacti is? What if he would've screwed up if you hadn't jumped in?

2) You did NOT start the current discussion that's taking place, and trying to take credit for it is scummy as hell.

The accusation was against CACTI, not you. Why do you keep trying to take credit for what I was calling HIM out on?

Taking credit of it? It was a mere justification, which is still valid even though I admittadly did get you wrong in the beginning. Still, I did try to force reactions which contradicts the main argument against me, even if the debate was based on your accusation.

D1 Vote Count:

[1]KevinM: Omis
[1]Mentosman: Gheb
[3]Rockin: KevinM, Cacti, Omni
[5]Gheb: McFox, Rockin, Frozenflame, Riddle

With 11 alive it takes, 6 to lynch!

I have 4 votes on me, not 5.

I still think it's a bad thing for town to wagon like that. Problem is that the whole debate was about me for much too long. It's way too easy for scum to stay out of the discussion that way. If you lynch me I won't flip scum which means that D1 was 90% fruitless because I was the main subject of suspicion for the longest time. Town needs more investigation in other directions D1 to have a bigger advantage in the long run.

Honestly, I'm surprised to see that the other towns aren't concerned about this in the slightest. With only one real subject of suspicion and a high possibility of me not being scum in the first place you might be looking really bad for D2, since you start @ 0 again but with 2 players less on your side one of them being our strongest player + potenitally a power role. I don't see how this is supposed to help town or why town would accept it so easily, when we still have 3 days to look into some other issues.

Also I see that there are 3 votes on Rockin and 4 on me. I really want to know some more about the Rockin issue since he has 3 votes on him but still prefers to coast (prolly since I'm closer to a lynch right now), which smells somewhat scummy. I really don't know why a townie would disappear after being accused and having the second most votes.
It'll probably backfire but since such a one-sided discussion can screw town in the future I'd rather have some other debates going on. Even if town prefers to lynch me at least we will have more info that way for D2. Thus I will unvote mentos since he justified his vote and Rockin is more suspicious than him and me. Forcing a reaction of Rockin atm doesn't sounds like a bad plan. If it doesn't work out and he can deal with the pressure you can still vote me...

Unvote Mentos, Vote Rockin

I'd really like to hear what this guy has to say.

Prod Omis btw...he just posted a john and then disappeared (I'm still inclined to lynch inactives btw because they're bound to become a burden)

 

[Cacti]

Prod: Omis

So far, it looks like Gheb has been giving a rather solid defense. I'd also like to hear what else Rockin has to say, as his one post wasn't really a defense.

 

[Riddle]

Prod: Omis

Gheb has given enough of a defense to make him at least a little clearer in my mind. I still have a gut feeling that he is scum though and everything about him rubs me the wrong way.

Just because you say something over and over again doesn't mean its true. You did stifle the only discussion we had even if it only had two people and let every1 else coast. And you didn't in fact start discussion that was McFox. Unless you count being scummy as starting discussion.

If you get back to L-1 I'm going to unvote you I think, but I'm going to keep my vote on you for now.

 

[Cacti]

Rockin hasn't posted in three days... Might want to prod him soon too.

 

[Rockin]

Nah, no need. I'm responding right now, Cacti. Just give me a moment

 

[Rockin]

I've reading along silently in terms of the issue with Gheb. There's a reason why I havn't really said anything. I have three votes on me and the three people that voted for me left me alone to talk and pressure Gheb. Here and Here were the only times I responded. I felt there was no need to press on the Gheb disscussion because I had like three votes and it'd look scummy for me to add onto the Gheb topic with just three votes on me and not defend myself.

Reason why my thing wasn't much of a defense is because little was said to me, so I gave a little defense. I just feel like people is voting on me mainly cause I bandwagoned on Gheb, which is understandable. Again, I could've gave out my reasons and whatnot in a qualified manner, but about one or two already spoke these things and I hate being a parrot just repeating myself. Also don't like how Omni said I 'coast as always' when I don't really coast. There are times when I am talkative in the discussion at hand and there are times, like in spidey Mafia, where I am somewhat silent.

 

[McFox]

Still, I did try to force reactions which contradicts the main argument against me, even if the debate was based on your accusation.

It doesn't contradict anything.

Try to follow this as best you can:

1) Riddle starts grilling CACTI.

2) You interrupt them, saying it's pointless.

3) You (fruitlessly) attempt to start a new discussion.

So you see, 3 does not contradict 2. I asked you a very specific question in my last post which I've asked you before, and you've continued to ignore it. Please, pay very careful attention, and answer the following question:

What if Cacti is scum? The only response to this you've given is "Well statistically he probably isn't." Yeah, statistically we ALL aren't. And yet: some of us are. What if Cacti is? What if he would've screwed up if you hadn't jumped in?

I don't see how people are saying he's given a proper defense. "I started a discussion" is a lie, and even if he did ATTEMPT to start one, he still felt the need to shut down Riddle. There's no reason he couldn't have posted his "discussion" question in addition to Riddle vs. Cacti, and yet he felt the need to shut them down. Why? (And Gheb, before you say "Because Cacti probably isn't scum", please read the underlined text above and answer it.)

 

[Omni]

@Rockin: From what I have seen from you, Rockin, you have a very passive play style and you don't throw in your 2 cents until someone asks you. You also agree alot with what it already said without bringing any original concepts of your own to the table (or at least strong points).

@McFox and Riddle: I am uneasy about how hard you pushing for Gheb based on the "stifling" conversation response. Here's exactly what happened:

This post followed by http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8290612&postcount=86 post. Previously, Gheb was "stifling" discussion by responding to a empty post Kevin made. For whatever reason, Gheb responds with, "can we talk about something worthwhile" to that extent where Riddle then responds:

Useless stuff such as who is scum? Fos: Gheb_01 for trying to stifle discussion. (saving his scum buddy from too much pressire?0

It did look like Gheb was trying to divert the conversation elsewhere, however, this is ONLY under the assumption that Gheb was trying to protect his scum buddy (Cacti) as Riddle said.

@Riddle Again: Up to that point, you had started your grilling process on Cacti and made a compelling argument way more detailed and valid than the one we currently we have on Rockin'. Moreso, if you are voting Gheb on the basis for stifling discussion to protect scum, then why would you divert so much attention off of your original target and quite possibly the original scum, Cacti.

This confused me since I placed a vote on Cacti after you made your rather lengthy post about your suspicions on him. A small simple statement from Gheb cut your concentration enough for you to completely stop penetrating the wall you quickly forced Cacti to raise. If anything, if your suspicions on Gheb has a foundation based on an attempt to protect Cacti, then it would only make sense to continue your process with Cacti and make him the higher lynch candidate over Gheb.

Basically, I don't like how Cacti's case was completely cut off and replaced by Gheb's single statement. It also intrigues me that no one (mainly Riddle) has come back to the original argument to continue the discussion that was being held.

FoS: Cacti

 

[Omni]

"Up to that point, you had started your grilling process on Cacti and made a compelling argument way more detailed and valid than the one we currently we have on Gheb***."

 

[Rockin]

@Rockin: From what I have seen from you, Rockin, you have a very passive play style and you don't throw in your 2 cents until someone asks you. You also agree alot with what it already said without bringing any original concepts of your own to the table (or at least strong points).

I let things happen either cause there's no need to get involved with it (or at least, that moment), or I want to see what happens. And that's how I am with opinions sometimes. There are times when I see something scummy, I'll put up to notice. Other times I keep it mostly to myself so it can be used on the following day it's needed. That last bit you said is also true, but not to such an extent.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I let things happen either cause there's no need to get involved with it (or at least, that moment), or I want to see what happens. And that's how I am with opinions sometimes. There are times when I see something scummy, I'll put up to notice. Other times I keep it mostly to myself so it can be used on the following day it's needed.

Wouldn't scum act the same way?

 

[Omis]

Because apparenently losing your internet connection isnt a john Im getting prodded. Whatever

@Gheb
Stop being so god **** full of yourself. You keep saying how you have negated any issues against you when that so obviously isnt the case. If you really had like you had said then people wouldnt be so happy to see you go and we wouldnt be on this issue. You did stifle discussion wether you like it or not and you didnt start discussion like you gloat. That was actually McFox. Also just because a discussion is only between 3 people doesnt make it worthless. People can still slip up and maybe other people arent posting so as not to lose momentum.
Overall I just dislike your play. You remind me of FF7 Omni as the annoying person who insults everyone to make up for there flaws. Plus you are arrogant and thats just annoying.
Nameclaim. Youve been at L1 L2 for almost the entire game and at this point I dont see people leaving you without something like this. I would be voting you but I dont like hammah bait.

 

[McFox]

It did look like Gheb was trying to divert the conversation elsewhere, however, this is ONLY under the assumption that Gheb was trying to protect his scum buddy (Cacti) as Riddle said.

WRONG.

I have already said that when I'm mafia, I try to break up any headway the town makes in any direction, no matter if it's correct or not. It's just to keep them second-guessing themselves. There's no reason Gheb couldn't be doing the same.

Gheb, ignoring my posts isn't doing you any favors, at least not with me. Until you actually address what I have had to say against you RECENTLY (read my last post, there's even a portion that was underlined specifically for you), I cannot see any reason to remove my vote on you.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Gheb, ignoring my posts isn't doing you any favors, at least not with me. Until you actually address what I have had to say against you RECENTLY (read my last post, there's even a portion that was underlined specifically for you), I cannot see any reason to remove my vote on you.

Not ignoring them. I'm just gathering stuff like quotes etc for a longer answer. I just happened to see Rockin's post and made a quick rebuttal but I'm still answering your points as usual. Don't lose patience.

Also how are going to take your vote off me anyways when you're away for a while? Or do you have access to the internet?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Omis, haven't you read the part where I explained that claiming in this situation helps scum more than town? Please argue that before you demand a claim.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

You remind me of FF7 Omni as the annoying person who insults everyone to make up for there flaws. Plus you are arrogant and thats just annoying.

i don't see this. gheb has actually made sense at times

fos omni again for more pseudo scumhunting

 

[Omis]

Omis, haven't you read the part where I explained that claiming in this situation helps scum more than town? Please argue that before you demand a claim.

I saw what you wrote and I think your reasoning is wrong. Name claiming isnt something people are going to really vote you off of. You arent going to get say *randomhomocidalfreak* and everyone vote you off of it. Name claims to me at least just open you up for counter claims and if you dont get any you are a bit less scum. It doesnt do the mafia much good but it can do the town good.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Nevermind McFox I just read most your arguments again and I got you all wrong. Sorry for taking so long for a proper answer no wonder you're annoyed but I just got your points...

Still don't see why you vote me if you feel that way. People were already voting for Cacti and I disagreed with that. If people really felt stronger about the whole Cacti issue then they could've kept on pressing him either way. It's not like me calling it useless actually stops them from BWing him in the slightest. If you really go for him all the way through D1 and end up lynching him you could've just seen if the results confirm things. If he flips scum you can assume I'm scum too but if he's town we also get some new info like Riddle grilling him for all the wrong reason plus the hammer vote being potentially scum too.
If you're really that bothered about the issue then voting Cacti makes more sense because lynching him provieds a lot more info than lynching me.

I still find Rockin more suspicious tbh cuz he still hasn't give a good response to Omni's accusations but rather admits to use scum like tactics...

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I saw what you wrote and I think your reasoning is wrong. Name claiming isnt something people are going to really vote you off of. You arent going to get say *randomhomocidalfreak* and everyone vote you off of it. Name claims to me at least just open you up for counter claims and if you dont get any you are a bit less scum. It doesnt do the mafia much good but it can do the town good.

But nameclaims also open up way too much speculation about my role, which leads to more confusion and disagreements. Why would I want that? Besides it's still helpful for scum even if only slightly. Either way, I don't see how it's supposed to help town.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

can we drop the nameclaim thing altogether? too subjective and just comes down to playstyle

 

[McFox]

Also how are going to take your vote off me anyways when you're away for a while? Or do you have access to the internet?

I won't be able to. I was considering whether or not I should remove my vote before I leave.

And as I've said several times now, you interrupting Riddle =/= you are defending your scumbuddy. Guess you should read over that as well.

Looks like I'll be leaving my vote. I'll leave it up to the town to do the right thing, whether that's going with a Gheb lynching or going with someone else.

 

[Rockin]

Wouldn't scum act the same way?

Not really. I always thought scum wanted to blend in with the crowd in terms of discussion and votes. Really, it's just me being quiet, since I either can't or don't know how to add onto the discussion already.

I still find Rockin more suspicious tbh cuz he still hasn't give a good response to Omni's accusations but rather admits to use scum like tactics...

Shouldn't be putting words in my mouth, cause I never admitted to such things. Granted, they may seem scummy, but I'm not trying to be. I'm just honestly noting out what I do in terms of these situations. However you see it is your opinion.

I can't force myself to get involve in every discussion. If there's something I would add, then I would. If I can't, I can't. Simple as that. I have nothing to hide and nothing really to gain for acting like this. All I want to do is help town the best way I can. I rather stay quiet and let actual good words fling over then me saying just anything and people giving me weird looks like I'm retarted.

What do you want me to do Gheb? Speak some words to the best of my wisdom or randomness?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Not really. I always thought scum wanted to blend in with the crowd in terms of discussion and votes. Really, it's just me being quiet, since I either can't or don't know how to add onto the discussion already.

I don't see how staying out of debates is a bad tactic for scum but it's probably just my opinion. I'm still a bit dissapointed - I expected a more explanatory post but I guess there's nothing to do against it. Bothers me still because that doesn't stop from the whole debate being a bit overcentralised.

 

[Omis]

But nameclaims also open up way too much speculation about my role, which leads to more confusion and disagreements. Why would I want that? Besides it's still helpful for scum even if only slightly. Either way, I don't see how it's supposed to help town.

confusion and disagrrements=difference in opinions=arguements=scumtells

If you get CC'ed Id say that helps out town a great deal. Thats how town wants it.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Omis, would you drop the hammer even if I keep refusing to nameclaim? Knowing that it might make you the next subject of suspicion?

Your CCing argument at least does make sense, I can def. see that one working out in town favour so I might as well give it a shot. Aside from Marhsy's objection (which is justified - subjectivity matters a lot when somebody nameclaims) what would you do if nobody CCs? Would you unvote me and go after Rockin or Cacti? What if I claim vanilla? Do you think people will believe me or just vote me either way? What are the consequences if I claim a PR? Easy target for scum @ night and a good opportunity for them to continue their coastin through D1?

 

[Omis]

I do NOT want you to roleclaim right now. Simply a nameclaim to allow some more insight into you. Because as I see it right now, you are the closest to scum and not much else is going to persuade me otherwise and it seems as if other players are rather adamant in their choices also. Oh and I dont have my vote on you.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

I do NOT want you to roleclaim right now. Simply a nameclaim to allow some more insight into you.

terrible advice don't nameclaim wait for more people to speak up on what's happened recently with the gheb/mcfox thing

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'd still like you to answer my questions before I actually do the nameclaim.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

ninja'd by Marshy

Still disagreement about the issue so I'm not sure what to do tbh

 

[Rockin]

I don't see how staying out of debates is a bad tactic for scum but it's probably just my opinion. I'm still a bit dissapointed - I expected a more explanatory post but I guess there's nothing to do against it. Bothers me still because that doesn't stop from the whole debate being a bit overcentralised.

Staying out of debates makes them noticable later on, so I felt it's always good for mafia to get into discussion while not leaving a paper trail behind them. At least, that's how I always envisioned Mafias to do.

Also, understand something. I had 3 votes while you had 5 (now 4), everyone grilling in on you. It wouldn't make sense for scum or town to help grill in when they could easily defend themselves and clear their name. For the past 3 days, no one paid attention to me and it bothered me cause I really wanted to defend myself. I couldn't go on the thread saying "hey, what about me? Hellooooooo?" cause that'd look pretty scummy IMO.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I couldn't go on the thread saying "hey, what about me? Hellooooooo?" cause that'd look pretty scummy IMO.

Fair enough. You weren't the only one who dropped the whole issue so it's not really your fault. Still like to hear a reason on your BWing me (I doubt it'll come though lol).

Unvote Rockin

Also, what's your opinion about me being supposed to nameclaim?

 

[Omni]

I let things happen either cause there's no need to get involved with it (or at least, that moment), or I want to see what happens. And that's how I am with opinions sometimes. There are times when I see something scummy, I'll put up to notice. Other times I keep it mostly to myself so it can be used on the following day it's needed. That last bit you said is also true, but not to such an extent.

Wrong. You should always get involved so people can:
a.) Clear up suspicions on you to see that you're actively scumhunting.
b.) Clear up suspicions to remove the chance that you are purposely coasting.

Why would you see something scummy and "put it up on notice"? Wouldn't keeping any kind of information that could essentially help lead us to a scun lynch toDay be more helpful then releasing that information toMorrow after a possible mislynch? "Hey guys, I observed this yesterday, but so-and-so was being scummy yesterday." Nah, that doesn't fly. Consider the fact that if you are "withholding information for future references" you could die in the future, unless you're feeling a bit too comfortable about your safety because you know you aren't a target. Hm.

WRONG.

I have already said that when I'm mafia, I try to break up any headway the town makes in any direction, no matter if it's correct or not. It's just to keep them second-guessing themselves. There's no reason Gheb couldn't be doing the same.

But you wouldn't do it in an obvious fashion that sounds like, "What you two people are talking about isn't relevant," when at the time it clearly is. You've just helped me prove how this is a WIFOM situation where it would be high risk-low reward for Mafia to intentionally and publically stifle conversation. I could lean toward the Gheb argument more if Gheb had attempted to persuade or suggest or softly push the neutralizing of conversation, but it was a strong "Wtf, talk about something worth while" post instead.

So not wrong but different perspective. If you were Mafia, McFox, would you stifle conversation using the same method Gheb did? Why or why not?

I saw what you wrote and I think your reasoning is wrong. Name claiming isnt something people are going to really vote you off of. You arent going to get say *randomhomocidalfreak* and everyone vote you off of it. Name claims to me at least just open you up for counter claims and if you dont get any you are a bit less scum. It doesnt do the mafia much good but it can do the town good.

I don't like how you have been inactive this entire time only to comeback and say, "Name claim! Name claim!" Seriously, nameclaiming is only an attempt to metagame the situation so stop suggesting that it would be a good idea. It produces no relief nor any additional suspicion based on the person he claims.

Just because you don't get any CC's doesn't mean you are bit less scum. If he claimed Mr. Burns and no one CC'ed him, that would only justify keeping a vote on him from most people's minds because they are metagaming the situation and ASSUMING (not a good idea) that Mr. Burns would be Mafia in this game.

You've been prodded. Jump into the game more forcefully and with more substance. Give me a reason to vote for Gheb. Do you think currently he is the only play? Who are your other suspects based on any other suspicious activity you've seen so far? Don't just jump in and start yelling out nameclaim. Why is Gheb closest to scum? It seems that you've just jumped on the bandwagon on the majority thought while slipping past the "why" process.

@Gheb: Stop being stupid and address questions when they are asked. Prolonging an answer because you want to give a longer response only stagnates the current discussion and puts you more into the limelight. You aren't in any position to do otherwise as you can see (being at L-1).

 

[~ Gheb ~]

OK, I'm off now you guys should decide about the nameclaiming issue and I'd like to hear some other opinions except those of Omis/Marshy about it.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Ninja'd by Omni

@Gheb: Stop being stupid and address questions when they are asked. Prolonging an answer because you want to give a longer response only stagnates the current discussion and puts you more into the limelight. You aren't in any position to do otherwise as you can see (being at L-1).

What exactly are you talking about? All my recent posts were short and to-the-point. Not sure why you bring that up now that I'm done writing longer posts. Are you refering to my general gameplay or just to some selected posts?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

OK, I'm off now for real. Gonna reply to stuff tomorrow don't drop the hammer please.

 

[McFox]

If you were Mafia, McFox, would you stifle conversation using the same method Gheb did? Why or why not?

I wouldn't have done it that early, but it's along the same lines, even if the implementation is different from what I would've said, the basic message is still the same.

"You guys are going in circles and making no progress."

That's basically what Gheb was telling both Riddle and Cacti, which is what I have a problem with. And keep in mind, this isn't the only problem I have with the way Gheb's played the situation thus far (see any of my recent posts for more on that). This was only my original argument. Like I said, if the rest of the town finds a better suspect then by all means, go for it. But since I'm leaving soon, all I can say is that my vote will stand until the day ends.

 

[Rockin]

Wrong. You should always get involved so people can:
a.) Clear up suspicions on you to see that you're actively scumhunting.
b.) Clear up suspicions to remove the chance that you are purposely coasting.

Why would you see something scummy and "put it up on notice"? Wouldn't keeping any kind of information that could essentially help lead us to a scun lynch toDay be more helpful then releasing that information toMorrow after a possible mislynch? "Hey guys, I observed this yesterday, but so-and-so was being scummy yesterday." Nah, that doesn't fly. Consider the fact that if you are "withholding information for future references" you could die in the future, unless you're feeling a bit too comfortable about your safety because you know you aren't a target. Hm.

I probably worded it wrong. When I say 'put up to notice,' I mean I'll quickly post and say my opinion about it, so others can take notice and see if they agree with me or not. Also, understand. I'm mainly being blamed for BWing Gheb. Something that, I shouldn't continue feeding my logic onto the discussion because to me, it defeats the purpose of proving myself that I'm town, especially since I've spoke that I hate parroting others.

If I have information, I'll address it. Whether I live to tell that said information is another thing. All I can do is blame myself for not discussion the issue sooner. *shrugs*

Fair enough. You weren't the only one who dropped the whole issue so it's not really your fault. Still like to hear a reason on your BWing me (I doubt it'll come though lol).

Unvote Rockin

Also, what's your opinion about me being supposed to nameclaim?

I feel it's always good to nameclaim whether you're feeling pressured or a mass nameclaim agreement comes up. While I do understand people not nameclaiming for fear of either living to see the next day, I still feel it helps to nameclaim so we can direct our attention to others. Whether it'll confuse us or not will be our own issue we have to deal with (granted, I don't want town confused on a situation, but these things DO happen).

All in short, it'd be good if you nameclaimed, but I won't tighten up the noose up much if you don't if you give me a good reason why you don't want to.

 

[Omni]

I wouldn't have done it that early, but it's along the same lines, even if the implementation is different from what I would've said, the basic message is still the same.

"You guys are going in circles and making no progress."

That's basically what Gheb was telling both Riddle and Cacti, which is what I have a problem with. And keep in mind, this isn't the only problem I have with the way Gheb's played the situation thus far (see any of my recent posts for more on that). This was only my original argument. Like I said, if the rest of the town finds a better suspect then by all means, go for it. But since I'm leaving soon, all I can say is that my vote will stand until the day ends.

I can totally agree with you leaving your vote on Gheb. Up to this point, enough discussion has been made against his case to cast doubt.

The reason why I brought up Gheb's "stifling" message was because it seemed to be the focus of your attention. I think that a basic message can be obscurred depending on how it is presented and thus I can't equate, "Hey guys, stop talking about useless things," with "What you two are saying is interesting, but I think we should focus is something more worth while." I view both these messages differently.

I'm fine with you leaving your vote on Gheb; it's justified.

If I have information, I'll address it. Whether I live to tell that said information is another thing. All I can do is blame myself for not discussion the issue sooner. *shrugs*

I just pointed out how withholding observations and information hurts Town more than you would be able to help Town in the future. Moreso, everyone will be just generally pissed that you caught hold of scum tell and chose not to address, especially if we mislynch.

Regardless, the other problem with you not talking is your usefulness. Can you agree that a townie who has information but doesn't disclose it to the public is useless? This is not to be compared with a Cop or any person who has information that will also reveal their identity.

 

[Rockin]

I just pointed out how withholding observations and information hurts Town more than you would be able to help Town in the future. Moreso, everyone will be just generally pissed that you caught hold of scum tell and chose not to address, especially if we mislynch.

Regardless, the other problem with you not talking is your usefulness. Can you agree that a townie who has information but doesn't disclose it to the public is useless? This is not to be compared with a Cop or any person who has information that will also reveal their identity.

I can agree and disagree on that. It really depends on the information itself. If the information is good, then it would be bad of that townie to take in the information along with his death. However, if the information he has is either

- not valuable
- the information he has is misunderstood (such as, the person thought the information was this, but others soon clarify the information is actually that )
- Can't truly be used at the time

then the townie himself might be somewhat useless. (I say might, depending on how much of these bad information comes by). I tend to fall into these kinds of things. Whenever I do discover something, it's usually pointed out that I misread it. This is why I sometimes wait and then present the information. Granted, sometimes I may be a bit late on things. In general, it takes time for me to catch stuff on notice.

In anycase, I'll do my best to be a bit more useful and open minded in terms of my information.