Simpsons Mafia: will homer survive?

[Rockin]

Staring a serious discussion? With whom? Cacti and Riddle were arguing and nobody else was there to argue with. That's my entire point.

Nobody active + No options to prod = impossible to start a worthy debate...

Start it with others, even those that are inactive.

If I don't see something worth while to really talk, I usually just make discussion, whether why people are inactive or talk about the possible Mafia characters. Just try and create anything that seems valuable. You won't get anywhere if you don't do nothing about it.

Oh, I don't even disagree with that. This is a serious discussion indeed. But it only became serious because other people started to argue along. It wouldn've been that serious if it still were only 3 people.

I always thought anything after a RJV things would get serious, even if the discussion at hand wasn't truly serious. Like when Riddles talked about the three questions, or when Cacti was making those speculations. I always thought stuff like those were things to talk about.

The thing is, the topic doesn't have to always be serious, but it shouldn't be treated as a joke either. As long as there is some kind of discussion involved, we can generate on what to do. Really, any type of topic to talk about may help find out who's Mafia.

 

[KevinM]

I TALK IN CAPS BECAUSE I'M GOING TO BE LYNCHED

Seriously why isn't Gheb dead yet.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Start it with others, even those that are inactive.

If I don't see something worth while to really talk, I usually just make discussion, whether why people are inactive or talk about the possible Mafia characters. Just try and create anything that seems valuable. You won't get anywhere if you don't do nothing about it.

Didn't I do just that? Who was the one, who proposed inactivity lynches to bait reactions? Yes, it was me. I did exactly what you told me to do just now. Unfortunately it backfired because people prefer to jump a random bandwagon without using their brains.

That's why the whole dilemma started. Prodding somebody requires the majority to be agree. Too bad the majority was inactive. And a 1 vs 1 debate doesn't help much either (because obviously everybody will just jump the BW after not contributing ****).

I always thought anything after a RJV things would get serious, even if the discussion at hand wasn't truly serious. Like when Riddles talked about the three questions, or when Cacti was making those speculations. I always thought stuff like those were things to talk about.

The thing is, the topic doesn't have to always be serious, but it shouldn't be treated as a joke either. As long as there is some kind of discussion involved, we can generate on what to do. Really, any type of topic to talk about may help find out who's Mafia.

Again, it's not the content of the debate that made it useless but the inactivity of the OTHER players. Chances that one of 3 random players is scum is pretty low so I'd rather have more people debate along.

How many times must I repeat myself?

I TALK IN CAPS BECAUSE I'M GOING TO BE LYNCHED

Seriously why isn't Gheb dead yet.

I'm not going to be lynched, unless you decide to remain stubborn - not that I expect anything else from you but there are other people, who might be actually smart.

FoS: Kevin

You're just bandwagoning without using logic or reason. All you try to do is to intimidate me with your overly agressive yet completely empty posts. Try harder, scum.

 

[Riddle]

Gheb, you've gotten way too defensive for my liking. Unvote, Vote: Gheb_01

 

[~ Gheb ~]

You don't have to respond to my points or argue them if you simply don't want me to live. It's easy to use a dummy argument like "you're too defensiv for my liking" or jump the bandwagon without posting a reason.

You shouldn't do that though if you really cared about who's scum in actuality.

 

[Cacti]

Hmm. It looks like everyone's set on lynching Gheb but...

I'd just like to ask why does everyone want him lynched so badly? As Gheb said before, only three people were active and one is going to get fosed. We are not examining any of the other people. I also think that Kevin might be scum, because he hasn't really contributed much other then random posts, bandwagoning, and pushing for a Gheb lynch now. Don't forget that also made a post similar to Gheb's that might've been to stop Riddle and I's discussion (yet maybe not so direct):

You should take them seriously, its still player on player interaction.

Do'h!

There we go again arguing about nothing!

While he is mostly referring to his discussion with Rockin, he states "again", which implies that Riddle and I's debate that had been going on was also useless.

now is not a good time to claim

wanna know what mentos, omni, frozen, and omis think of a gheb lynch

Yes, where are these people?

 

[KevinM]

Cacti you don't know what you're talking about. Don't step to me.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

unvote gheb

 

[#HBC | marshy]

Gheb, you've gotten way too defensive for my liking. Unvote, Vote: Gheb_01

if he's about to be lynched then why wouldn't he be defensive? what is "too defensive"?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Cacti, I wouldn't go as far to call Kevin scum (yeah, I know I did it myself but it was just half serious) just because of a couple of posts. From what I've seen in the FFVII Mafia game he seems to be pretty consistent with his ******** playstyle (at least for D1) and it actually does make sense to jump the BW and randomly pressure single player in order to bait reactions if you're consisten - even though it's not much it's still something to start with.
That said I still have my eye on him and wait for a reasonable post from him - up to now all his posts were just random. Time to post something real, Kevin.

Also, I'm still for inactivity lynching because those players, who still haven't posted anything will be a burden sooner or later. I know that prodding is another option but prodding 4 players is quite a lot because there aren't enough replacement players - if we decide to prod players chances are high that they'll get modkilled anyways. Might as well get rid of them.
So far mentos, Omis and frozen still have to post anything after the RVS and Omni only wrote joke posts.

Prod: Mentos

I can't remember him having posted anything for a while.

 

[Riddle]

if he's about to be lynched then why wouldn't he be defensive? what is "too defensive"?

I meant the attacks on others and the throwing suspicions on to others...

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I meant the attacks on others and the throwing suspicions on to others...

Whom did I openly call suspicous?

I only said that Marshy's behaviour is more suspicous than my own and I only said so once a whole bunch of posts ago.
I FoS'd Kevin for his harshness and his stubborn behaviour but I didn't call him overly suspicious - on the contrary. In my last post I actually stated that I don't consider him scummy.

Whenever I mentioned someone other than those people it was in regards to their inactivity.

 

[Cacti]

Ridle, you seem to really want gheb lynched. First you say that you do not want to put him at 1 vote to get lynched, and then you give the reason that he was "too defensive", an vote him. I didn't see anything "too defensive" about him at all; he just adressed some points an how you weren't listening to him (although the caps was a bit much).

Also, has omis said anything at all yet?

 

[#HBC | marshy]

prod frozen

 

[Riddle]

FoS: Kevin

You're just bandwagoning without using logic or reason. All you try to do is to intimidate me with your overly agressive yet completely empty posts. Try harder, scum.

Posts like this and your posting in all caps and calling me and others an idiot is what I meant by being defensive. I guess I kind of see what you guys mean, but he's not at L-1 anymore so I don't feel the need to Unvote (that would be scummy anyways).

Calling your attackers scummy and dumb aren't generally a way town defends himself and if you are just being newbie (I don't know how much mafia you've played) then I'm just gonna give you some advice and say this: calm, rational defenses are always more effective than becoming defensive and calling out the poeple with votes on you as scummy.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Alright so, Gheb here is an interesting case.

I'm having trouble figuring out if he's a scum in denial and just doesn't understand that for everything he's accusing others of being (stubborn, ignoring points, etc.), he's doing the same to them, OR he might just be a "little bit too full of himself" townie who won't admit his repetitiveness.

It's a tough call, but regardless Gheb, you ARE making yourself look bad.

You DID try to stifle discussion whether you intended to or not. McFox more or less hit the nail on the head with his initial read on you. You keep throwing out the phrases "serious debate" and "worthy debate." Since when are YOU the judge of what the town can and can not discuss? You're shooting down people's opinions, reads, and accusations are worthless and irrelevant with the reasoning that they're "grasping at straws" and "you can't deduce anything from RVS" or other similar premises.

The fact of the matter is, you're completely wrong. Day 1 is ALL ABOUT getting reads from RVS and grasping at straws to get things started. It sounds to me like you're either afraid that someone was going to accuse you or a possible scum buddy for a whimsical reason, or you're just too self-absorbed that you feel the need to pass judgement on every point that someone raises, as if it isn't worthy of discussion if you don't approve of it.

I'm not sure whether or not to attribute your defensiveness to scummyness, pretentiousness, or simply the fact (as Marshy pointed out) that you were getting somewhat close to a lynch. It's a minor point regardless, but it does add to the case against you.

I've yet to decide what I really believe the context you're speaking from is. I'll have to go back and review before first. Definitely FoS: Gheb though. (I almost NEVER use FoS, so that means a lot)

As a side note, I'd also like to point out that Marshy seems to have me targeted, even after RVS. Not really sure what the deal is with that. Are you just waiting for me to speak so you can pounce Marshy boy? Sounds like what you do in AIM as scum to me. IGMEOY

 

[Cacti]

prod: omis

Yesss, prod them all!

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Calling your attackers scummy and dumb aren't generally a way town defends himself and if you are just being newbie (I don't know how much mafia you've played) then I'm just gonna give you some advice and say this: calm, rational defenses are always more effective than becoming defensive and calling out the poeple with votes on you as scummy.

I never called anybody scummy, except for Kevin (whom I called scummy only once and I even took it back right afterwards). I never called anybody dumb either - in fact I even expressed my understanding for Kevin's "tactic" and the BWing just a few posts ago.

Also where do you think was I behaving irrational? I have no idea what gives you the impression that I wasn't calm. All of my arguments were backed up by facts. I think you're interpreting my posts too much. I just have a blunt way of saying things but I'm rather calm usually and I don't see anything that makes me seen unreasonable.

I posted in all caps because I wanted people to respond to my actualy point (which still only few did), that the lack of activity made a serious debate hardly possible. People kept ignoring it and accused me of trying to stop debate while I simply wanted to force reactions of inactive players by proposing lynches based on inactivity. Of course this was also used as an argument AGAINST me but at least we finally have some activity (althoug it's still pretty much the same people, who are arguing).

Alright so, Gheb here is an interesting case.

I'm having trouble figuring out if he's a scum in denial and just doesn't understand that for everything he's accusing others of being (stubborn, ignoring points, etc.), he's doing the same to them, OR he might just be a "little bit too full of himself" townie who won't admit his repetitiveness.

It's a tough call, but regardless Gheb, you ARE making yourself look bad.

Wow, what an awful post. Are you seriously trying to impress me with such a semi ad hominem? I don't need somebody, who disappears for 9 pages straight, to tell me that I make myself looking bad. If you read any of my previous arguments you'd realize that you make yourself look bad right now. Especially after not having contributed anything AT ALL.

You DID try to stifle discussion whether you intended to or not.... etc

So much lies in this post...

"Since when are YOU the judge of what the town can and can not discuss? You're shooting down people's opinions, reads, and accusations are worthless and irrelevant with the reasoning that they're "grasping at straws" and "you can't deduce anything from RVS" or other similar premises."

Way to ignore me. I should vote you just for ignoring everything I wrote at least 3 times already. I even got called out for posting in Caps and people still don't get it?
IT'S NOT THE CONTENT OF THE DISCUSSION THAT MADE THE DISCUSSION USELESS BUT THE FACT THAT ONLY 3 PLAYERS WERE ACTIVELY TAKING PART.

Don't ever bring this up again, please. It's just annoying and I don't want to repeat myself yet again. If you don't get it it's your problem.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Just in case: I don't mind if somebody disagrees with me about the activity issue (like Rockin' does) but it's not a valid reason to assume I'm scum.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Triple posting because I can.

@Macman

Post count, please.

Where u @???

 

[Cacti]

Gheb, you said on the bottom of page six (I can't seem to quote right now) that ridle and I's discussion was useless because it was about RVS an a weak speculation but now you say that it is not the content of the discussion, but the number of people involved in it the discussion that matter?

 

[Omis]

Johns: I dropped my laptop today and my harddrive is broken or fried or whatever now. So basically Im going to have limited computer access for a while. Im going to try to stay active on various other comps but it is going to be difficult. If you feel this results in the game slowing down or becoming worse feel free to replace me. Sorry.

 

[KevinM]

Lol @ Gheb calling my playstyle ******** like he knows **** about this game.

I'd tell you to step to me if you weren't already on the lynch post.

 

[Omni]

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Wow, what an awful post. Are you seriously trying to impress me with such a semi ad hominem? I don't need somebody, who disappears for 9 pages straight, to tell me that I make myself looking bad. If you read any of my previous arguments you'd realize that you make yourself look bad right now. Especially after not having contributed anything AT ALL.

Semi-ad-hominem? Really? I pretty confident that nothing I said in the post even comes close to constituting ad-hominem. Whatever though, if you're gonna throw a fit over nothing, then so be it.

If your best argument against me is that I've posted less than you so far, then I'm sorry, but you really don't have anything. If I was accusing YOU of inactivity, then you'd be well within your rights to call me out for being a hypocrite, but when my case against you has quite literally nothing to do with your level of activity, that sort of retort really has no weight.

You might be able to say I haven't contributed anything prior to this, but that is completely irrelevant to any contribution I might make now and from here on out. My past inaction literally has NO relationship logically with my current actions, and your attempt to link them screams desperate clawing scum to me.

So much lies in this post...

"Since when are YOU the judge of what the town can and can not discuss? You're shooting down people's opinions, reads, and accusations are worthless and irrelevant with the reasoning that they're "grasping at straws" and "you can't deduce anything from RVS" or other similar premises."

Way to ignore me. I should vote you just for ignoring everything I wrote at least 3 times already. I even got called out for posting in Caps and people still don't get it?
IT'S NOT THE CONTENT OF THE DISCUSSION THAT MADE THE DISCUSSION USELESS BUT THE FACT THAT ONLY 3 PLAYERS WERE ACTIVELY TAKING PART.

Don't ever bring this up again, please. It's just annoying and I don't want to repeat myself yet again. If you don't get it it's your problem.

Your nitpicky distinctions aren't going to all of a sudden make you right. You were stifling discussion by judging the discussion as useless and refusing to acknowledge it. Whether it was the content of the discussion you didn't approve of, or the number of participants is irrelevant.

Despite all this, I still don't understand why you would actively work against the progress being made by a few players. No matter how few people may be active 5 RL days into an in-game day one, there is no sense in dismissing that subject matter unless the content is inherently counteractive to game progression. Whether there be 10 people all tossing ideas around, or a single active person just posting ideas as food for thought, early game discussion should be allowed to flow. The number of people participating does not in any way invalidate the topic matter.

If you can't understand that, I'm not sure what else can be done. But right now, you certainly don't look very town to me.

Vote: Gheb

 

[#HBC | marshy]

shouldn't hammer gheb yet

i don't know what omni, omis, and mentos think about him and there's plenty of time left in day. no rush unless youre scum

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Gheb, you said on the bottom of page six (I can't seem to quote right now) that ridle and I's discussion was useless because it was about RVS an a weak speculation but now you say that it is not the content of the discussion, but the number of people involved in it the discussion that matter?

Are you refering to this post, Cacti?

That's ridiculous. You try to find out "who is scum" based on what? On weak speculation as Kevin pointed out? On joke posts from the RVS? All you do is arguing back and forth with Cacti for no reason except to ... argue. Don't you see that this isn't leading anywhere? You just tangle yourself up in endless arguments with no solid foundation. That way you're not going to help anyone.

Honestly, all you SEEM to do is trying to find somebody to blame.

If that's the case you're confusing two different arguments. That post was simply a response to Riddle:

Useless stuff such as who is scum?

So yes, I obviously did say something about the content of your discussion but I dropped it as my argument because it's merely my opinion that joke votes are no good basis for the scum-hunts Riddle wanted (In fact I even mentioned in my triple post before that I don't mind if people disagree with that). If somebody thinks you can get something out of a discussion that's based on joke posts that's fine by me - I disagree with that but that doesn't make me scummy. However, as I said I only mentioned that once because I don't want to base a discussion on my opinion since I prefer facts and I'm convinced that if people stay reasonable and read what I have to say they will agree that my arguments are indeed fact.

That's the first argument.

This is the second argument, which I think you're confusing:

The inactivity thing is a completely different story. The inactivity issue was the reason why I proposed to lynch inactive players. After that McFox was the first player to accuse me:

Lol @ Gheb calling my playstyle ******** like he knows **** about this game.

Are you really unable to reply with something more intelligent than "no u"?

Unvote Vote: Omni

He avoids prodding by posting the same .gif twice in his last two posts. He doesn't do anything useful and he'll just be a burden sooner or later.

@FrozenFlame's post

People still accuse me of stifling discussion? Wow, just wow.

 

[Riddle]

I never called anybody scummy, except for Kevin (whom I called scummy only once and I even took it back right afterwards). I never called anybody dumb either - in fact I even expressed my understanding for Kevin's "tactic" and the BWing just a few posts ago.

The fact that you tokk it back makes it even more suspicious to me. You imply that people are dumb a lot and you call people liars. Here, I'll give you some examples

Also where do you think was I behaving irrational? I have no idea what gives you the impression that I wasn't calm. All of my arguments were backed up by facts. I think you're interpreting my posts too much. I just have a blunt way of saying things but I'm rather calm usually and I don't see anything that makes me seen unreasonable.

Speaking in all caps implies yelling and calling people liars and casting suspicion on your BW'ers fits my definition of irrational. Just, because you later took pressure off of Kev doesn't mean that your not just scum trying to cover his tracks.

I posted in all caps because I wanted people to respond to my actualy point (which still only few did), that the lack of activity made a serious debate hardly possible. People kept ignoring it and accused me of trying to stop debate while I simply wanted to force reactions of inactive players by proposing lynches based on inactivity. Of course this was also used as an argument AGAINST me but at least we finally have some activity (althoug it's still pretty much the same people, who are arguing).

I'll respond to this point again. If there are a ton of people are inactive you can still scum hunt and it is in towns best interest to do so. The inactivity of others doesn't make it okay from stifling discussion and not starting any of your own.

So much lies in this post...

You call someone a liar again (seems pretty hostile to me).

Wow, what an awful post. Are you seriously trying to impress me with such a semi ad hominem? I don't need somebody, who disappears for 9 pages straight, to tell me that I make myself looking bad. If you read any of my previous arguments you'd realize that you make yourself look bad right now. Especially after not having contributed anything AT ALL.

Say someone has an awful post (seems pretty hostile to me).

Way to ignore me. I should vote you just for ignoring everything I wrote at least 3 times already. I even got called out for posting in Caps and people still don't get it?
IT'S NOT THE CONTENT OF THE DISCUSSION THAT MADE THE DISCUSSION USELESS BUT THE FACT THAT ONLY 3 PLAYERS WERE ACTIVELY TAKING PART.

Don't ever bring this up again, please. It's just annoying and I don't want to repeat myself yet again. If you don't get it it's your problem.

You can say it's his problem all you want, but it is still you who is at L-1 so you might want to defend yourself even if you have to repeat yourself (que horror). Calling people annoying and implying that they are stupid won't help your case.

 

[Omni]

Unvote Vote: Omni

He avoids prodding by posting the same .gif twice in his last two posts. He doesn't do anything useful and he'll just be a burden sooner or later.

I was making a point.

It is interesting that I can coastline and eat popcorn and avoid attention simply because I haven't said anything at all.

I think too many people are concentrating on Gheb simply because he has been posting actively. I also haven't seen a strong enough argument for anyone to vote Gheb so my suspicions lie on a few that have votes on him; mainly 1 or 2 persons.

I'll post my suspicions when I have a good amount of time to make an outline.

 

[Omni]

If Gheb is at L-1 someone unvote him immediately.

 

[Omni]

Vote count, also.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

It is interesting that I can coastline and eat popcorn and avoid attention simply because I haven't said anything at all.

Point taken.

So who's down for prodding mentos? He's the only player who still has to post at this point...

Riddle, I'll answer your points later ... I don't have much time right now

In general I'd like to mention that focusing on one single player a day is way too helpful for the mafia imo. If you lynch me the mafia gets a free kill and you're still at square one (because it'll turn out that I'm not scum so you lost 2 players while everybody else was just staying out of the discussion).

 

[#HBC | Mac]

D1 Vote Count:

[1]KevinM: Omis
[1]Cacti: Omni
[5]Gheb: McFox, KevinM, Rockin, Frozenflame, Riddle

With 11 alive it takes, 6 to lynch!

 

[KevinM]

Nope, because then you build connections off the one player and how they post. Mafia doesn't get a free kill at all.


At this point your at L-1 unless you have some crazy claim to help you at this point you're going to die. And if you're a power role I suggest you do before your hammered and **** the town over.

 

[KevinM]

Actually

Unvote: Gheb

I'm still going to vote you, I'd just like to see your claim and see if its terribly helpful or not.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Speaking in all caps implies yelling and calling people liars and casting suspicion on your BW'ers fits my definition of irrational. Just, because you later took pressure off of Kev doesn't mean that your not just scum trying to cover his tracks.

1.) I already explained why I posted in caps. It has nothing to do with yelling but emphasizing
2.) I never cast suspicion on anyone so far.
3.) I only call liars liars.

I'll respond to this point again. If there are a ton of people are inactive you can still scum hunt and it is in towns best interest to do so. The inactivity of others doesn't make it okay from stifling discussion and not starting any of your own.

*insert huge facepalm pic here*

I explained 32948173487 times that I didn't stilfe discussion but actually get a discussion going. I actually feel like posting in all caps again (for emphasis) because you still don't respond to what I said at least 5 times in the last 3 pages.

You call someone a liar again (seems pretty hostile to me).

He said I stifled discussion, which is a lie. I started this whole discussion in the first place. I call him a liar because he was lying. Hostile? Maybe, but also justified.

Say someone has an awful post (seems pretty hostile to me).

I didn't even call the whole post awful but only that "intro", where he was only mocking my playstyle. That part of his post was awful and a waste of space (and time for me to read).
It was useless information.

You can say it's his problem all you want, but it is still you who is at L-1 so you might want to defend yourself even if you have to repeat yourself (que horror). Calling people annoying and implying that they are stupid won't help your case.

Implying?

I already told you that you interpret my posts too much. You read too much into my posts. I don't imply anything except what I'm actually saying. If I'm saying somebody mindlessly jumps the BW it means just that. Not that somebody is stupid or annoying or anything else.

At this point your at L-1 unless you have some crazy claim to help you at this point you're going to die. And if you're a power role I suggest you do before your hammered and **** the town over.

Actually

Unvote: Gheb

I'm still going to vote you, I'd just like to see your claim and see if its terribly helpful or not.

Do you really think I'm that naive? You badly underrate me, Kevin. You keep on pressuring like a madman and refuse to listen to reason. So be it. I won't claim either way simply because there's no need.
People, who read my posts about how I started - not stifled - discussion will have to admit that they were wrong. Either way, your aggresive behaviour doesn't impress me in the slightest. You can pressure me as much as you want - my point is solid and based on facts. Thus my position will remain exactly the same and if people decide to actually listen to what I say they will realize that I am not scum.

 

[Omni]

Alright. Completely caught up.

Pretty sure Gheb is town. He sounds exactly like me in FF7 Mafia after being bandwagoned by Kevin. I was able to follow all off his responses and the accusations given to him and connect. He actually had it worse since 4 people decided to bandwagon him all in 4 post in a row when it takes 6 to lynch. This brings me to two people I find suspicious:

Rockin - Rockin, Rockin, Rockin. Coasting as always and agreeing with points made by other people while not creating any individual insight for himself. You know, the interesting thing about bandwagons? Most bandwagons that target scum usually don't... bandwagon that fast. In any case, I haven't seen anyone really speak in Gheb's defense which leaves no trail of any other Mafia attempting to defend a cornered scum.

Anyway, I don't like Rockins' bandwagon vote on Gheb. McFox brought up an argument (that I don't entirely agree with, but is justified) followed by Kevin and Marshy who bandwagon for pressure reasons. Rockin', on the otherhand... it seems out of character for him to bandwagon so easily. It would also be EASY to avoid attention if you bandwagon AND agree with statements already made without having to contribute any of your own.

Cacti - The source of Riddle's grilling and the reason the suspicions were casted on Gheb: basically in an attempt for Gheb to defend Cacti. As McFox said, Gheb had very good insight on Cacti's behavior. They were in your face contradictions, hence, why after re-reading Cacti's posts I still have my vote on him.

I do find it strange that Riddle abandoned Cacti and went after Gheb because he was trying to "defend" him. It would make more sense to lynch Cacti (the source) and move on to Gheb the next day if Cacti was indeed scum.

At this point, lynching Cacti would make more sense than lynching Gheb. If we lynch Cacti and he flips scum then we can pin Gheb for his defense on Cacti. If we lynch Gheb, Cacti is still left for debate in terms of scumminess or simply inconsistency.

That's my take. I'd rather lynch Cacti then Gheb D1. If we aren't going to lynch either of these two, then I would be totally fine with a Rockin lynch. I don't see him helping us at all in the future with all his agreeing and bandwagoning.

 

[Riddle]

Gheb will you link me to the specific post where you tryed to start serious discussion. I'm still not seeing it. Your only argument is that you actually started discussion and I just don't see it.

Everything about you just rubs me the wrong way. You are so sure of yourself and won't admit that you did anything wrong. There is a resason that you have a bunch of votes on you and its not because we are stupid. You in fact did stifle actual discussion and you didn't start any (unless you count being scummy and getting called out for it starting discussion.)

Being arrogant won't help you at all just be civil and answer peoples questions if your under pressure.

 

[KevinM]

Ok so Gheb is ********.

Vote Gheb

 

[Omni]

Riddle, what were your implications for switching your attention away from Cacti and focusing on Gheb?