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Should Metaknight Be Banned? The Poll (LISTEN TO THE SBR PODCAST!)

Should Metaknight be banned?


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rhan

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Messages
6,107
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SoVA 757
LOL @ -__-

Someone really knows what he's talking about. [/sarcasm] Do research next time....Otherwise just don't speak...

Back to topic. I say yes. I play Brawl for team matches and I run a team that consist of Kirby and Metaknight....Running 2 tornadoes on Luigi's Mansion is....********....It's either you're in the tornado or not.

Also another reason is just I hate seeing just "METAKNIGHT vs METAKNIGHT!" every other match. One day all Brawl will consist of is just Metaknight players.....Then there will be no point in the game....

Actually never mind keep Metaknight! Yays! Down with Brawl! :D
 

-__-

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 25, 2006
Messages
892
Location
NYC Bronx
Except he's fat.

1) Lag on moves (he lags :O how?!?!?... simple if u notice all his moves must attack front and back. Punish after the frontal attack)

Here, he defines Metaknight's dsmash as "all his moves."

No here i mean all his moves hit all around him. Fsmash hits from behind. Upsmash hits from behind. Dsmash is just the one more noticable.

Fsmash and usmash are hardly ever used by good MKs, even still usmash barely has any lag. Fsmash probably has the most lag of all his attacks but it's still fractional compared to a majority of the cast. Again, you neglect his tilts, his aerials, and his specials...

And yet again he still lags. after his tilt he cant move rite away run and shield DUH. hit aerials lag likewise his special.

2) But but tornado...... But but FOOTSTOOL noob.

He's basically just talking out of his butt here. A majority of pros can't even pull this off consistently and here he says "LOLZ, ETZ EAZY GUIZ!"

Thats cuz pros get to nervous and try to air dodge it.

... even pros have said the best way to counter it without a cancelling attack is to
stay on the ground and angle your shield up. What in God's name are you talking about?

Rofl do you even know what a pro is. the only time u shuld shield up to block it is if ur on the ground and he does it. If he has u in the air or if ur air camping which is what u SHULD BE DOING then u footstool to avoid it. what are you talking about...

3) Updefense is terrible.

Is updefense even a term? If he's referring to have trouble with attacks from above, this is still wrong because uair, usmash, and nair have high priority and protect the entire top of his head. Let's not forget the tornado two where, on average, every character only has one attack that can penetrate the tornado from above and that's only IF they land it directly on top.

Updefense means he dies quick going up learn ur defenses.

Unlike someone like ROB, Metaknight has a decent number of attacks to protect him from below. Regardless, this arguement has been brought up time and time again and has shown to be terrible because it neglects everything else that makes Metaknight great. Wario can kill Metaknight off the top with a well placed waft as low as 60%, Luigi can do it at about the same with the Shuroyuken (ie; fire uppercut), Ike can do it on medium stages at about 70% with the usmash, but are ANY of these characters considered Metaknight counters? No, all of these are 70-30 or worse. Again, you talk as if this is completely easy and everyone but YOU is doing it wrong.

those are just killing examples which just backup my statement lmfao. the fact is he still dies fast and even faster going up. and luigi can just uptilt his forward smash...

4) but but he can glide attack and it killz... but but u can powershield to anything.

A smart Metaknight isn't going to just attack with this attack at any height. Most good players will attack close to the ground so they can immediately cancel it into something else.

It doesnt matter how close to the ground they get. U shield it, it lags him period.

If they even attack you, that is. Like how a good Ike isn't always going to try directly attacking with a quickdraw, a good Metaknight isn't always going to attack with the slash at the end of the glide/shuttle loop

90% of the time he is... and who uses ike anyways... only nubs and people who play the game for fun. Ike isnt tournament winning material so use a better example next time...

5) his range is broken... like i said he lags on his moves...

Here, he clearly mistakes Metaknight with Ike or Donkey Kong. Poor guy.

Def. not. noob needs to play outside his house more.

But you talk as if Metaknight has an enormous amount of lag when he whiffs attacks. Heck, he even has three moves that can be cancelled upon other attacks upon landing (dash attack, dtilt, and shuttle loop). Do you even know who Metaknight is? He's the little blue guy with the metal mas... no, that's Kirby; go down one... as I was saying, with the metal mask... that's Samus... I said down, not left... with a cape... For Christ Sake's, that's Marth... Are you doing this on purpose?

Regardless lag is always punishable. If you to slow to react thats your problem. Why dont you go play some dj max to work on your reflexes :bee:

6) THERES NO WAY TO EDGE GUARD HIM!!! ..... silly noob u can spike him if not space ur aeriel so that itll cancel with his glide attack and punish afterwards.. expect an upb tho noob.

Metaknight has five methods of recovery with four being decently dependible: gliding, shuttle loop, dimensional cape, tornado, and triple dash. Congrats, you came up with an obvious method for one of his recoveries... Yes, Metaknight can be edgeguarded but it's consideribly harder compared to the rest of the cast.

Gliding u do a move with same priority. Shuttle loop can be spiked or use a move that sticks out. Dimensional cape requires reading him if u think hes guna go for the edge get on it if hes guna go on stage charge up a move. Triple dash wtf? forward B? thats probbably his only safest move with u can still knock him out with the angle/attack. Congrats and thanks.

Gliding: Even if he decides to go under the stage? Also, how many Metaknight's are just going to "allow" you to spike them in mid-glide? The same can be asked about the shuttle loop when he can easily cancel with an attack that covers more than half his body and has more priority than a majority of the game's moves. Dimensional cape: this is the least used method and is usually only done in close edgeguarding situations like if you try to edgeguard him, fail, and then he beats you back to the stage. Triple dash: Angle attack? Do you mean an angled attack? You are aware that the move can be adjusted to change the angle of it's course, right? You talk as if the person is going to go straight forward, land right at your feet and then, in a triumpant voice, you yell "Ha ha, I'll shall smite thee" before launching him into oblivion with a full charged Smash attack.

First of all its not during his glide that u spike him its when he UpB's. If your like bum u can always pull that off but then again ur definition of "pro" is sum1 who ranks 20 and below. Thats exactly what u do lol "I shall smite thee" *fixed* lol get ***** again. and i still dont kno what the hell is a triple dash lmfao. but angle ur moves to cover either more on the lower side or more above duh thats what angling is.

ya nub just got JV 4 STOCKED GET *****

The English Language just cried... Yep, you sure have done your fair share of "pwning nOObs" today, haven't you or, as the highly intelligent inhabitants of game FAQS like to say, OMGWTFLOLBBQOBYNBYOBASAP!

ROFLCOPTERSZ ur still on my pwnt list :p
 

Fatmanonice

Banned via Warnings
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NNID
Fatmanonice
Except he's fat.

1) Lag on moves (he lags :O how?!?!?... simple if u notice all his moves must attack front and back. Punish after the frontal attack)

Here, he defines Metaknight's dsmash as "all his moves."

No here i mean all his moves hit all around him. Fsmash hits from behind. Upsmash hits from behind. Dsmash is just the one more noticable.

Fsmash and usmash are hardly ever used by good MKs, even still usmash barely has any lag. Fsmash probably has the most lag of all his attacks but it's still fractional compared to a majority of the cast. Again, you neglect his tilts, his aerials, and his specials...

And yet again he still lags. after his tilt he cant move rite away run and shield DUH. hit aerials lag likewise his special.

Only if he attacks with all three ftilts which even Mew2King recommends not doing. What you don't understand is that there is close to no lag and the fact that a majority of his attacks are disjointed so you can't just simply retaliate as soon as the attack is done or shield grab like with most characters.

2) But but tornado...... But but FOOTSTOOL noob.

He's basically just talking out of his butt here. A majority of pros can't even pull this off consistently and here he says "LOLZ, ETZ EAZY GUIZ!"

Thats cuz pros get to nervous and try to air dodge it.

... even pros have said the best way to counter it without a cancelling attack is to
stay on the ground and angle your shield up. What in God's name are you talking about?

Rofl do you even know what a pro is. the only time u shuld shield up to block it is if ur on the ground and he does it. If he has u in the air or if ur air camping which is what u SHULD BE DOING then u footstool to avoid it. what are you talking about...

Mew2King and Overswarm are "nOObs", huh? Also, how do you footstool him if you're stuck in the tornado? Several people have even come out and said that footstooling does not stop the tornado so, again, your claims are completely bogus. Also, air camping against Metaknight. :laugh: I laughed long and hard about that one.

3) Updefense is terrible.

Is updefense even a term? If he's referring to have trouble with attacks from above, this is still wrong because uair, usmash, and nair have high priority and protect the entire top of his head. Let's not forget the tornado two where, on average, every character only has one attack that can penetrate the tornado from above and that's only IF they land it directly on top.

Updefense means he dies quick going up learn ur defenses.

Unlike someone like ROB, Metaknight has a decent number of attacks to protect him from below. Regardless, this arguement has been brought up time and time again and has shown to be terrible because it neglects everything else that makes Metaknight great. Wario can kill Metaknight off the top with a well placed waft as low as 60%, Luigi can do it at about the same with the Shuroyuken (ie; fire uppercut), Ike can do it on medium stages at about 70% with the usmash, but are ANY of these characters considered Metaknight counters? No, all of these are 70-30 or worse. Again, you talk as if this is completely easy and everyone but YOU is doing it wrong.

those are just killing examples which just backup my statement lmfao. the fact is he still dies fast and even faster going up. and luigi can just uptilt his forward smash...

And yet the match up is still 80-20 in Metaknight's favor. Are you going anywhere with this? Also, Game and Watch is the second lightest character in the game and he's, I believe, fourth from the top. Why? Because, like Metaknight, there's more to him than just his weight which you are horribly underplaying.

4) but but he can glide attack and it killz... but but u can powershield to anything.

A smart Metaknight isn't going to just attack with this attack at any height. Most good players will attack close to the ground so they can immediately cancel it into something else.

It doesnt matter how close to the ground they get. U shield it, it lags him period.

If they even attack you, that is. Like how a good Ike isn't always going to try directly attacking with a quickdraw, a good Metaknight isn't always going to attack with the slash at the end of the glide/shuttle loop

90% of the time he is... and who uses ike anyways... only nubs and people who play the game for fun. Ike isnt tournament winning material so use a better example next time...


Okay, a good Falco isn't always going to attack directly with the Falco Phantasm (over B). All three of the attacks mentioned in this section can be used for spacing and even retreating from a tight spot but you assume that people will always use them the exact same way.

5) his range is broken... like i said he lags on his moves...

Here, he clearly mistakes Metaknight with Ike or Donkey Kong. Poor guy.

Def. not. noob needs to play outside his house more.

But you talk as if Metaknight has an enormous amount of lag when he whiffs attacks. Heck, he even has three moves that can be cancelled upon other attacks upon landing (dash attack, dtilt, and shuttle loop). Do you even know who Metaknight is? He's the little blue guy with the metal mas... no, that's Kirby; go down one... as I was saying, with the metal mask... that's Samus... I said down, not left... with a cape... For Christ Sake's, that's Marth... Are you doing this on purpose?

Regardless lag is always punishable. If you to slow to react thats your problem. Why dont you go play some dj max to work on your reflexes :bee:

That's the thing, it's not soley my problem; at this time, it's the community's. Again, these "Everyone sucks but me" examples are getting old.

6) THERES NO WAY TO EDGE GUARD HIM!!! ..... silly noob u can spike him if not space ur aeriel so that itll cancel with his glide attack and punish afterwards.. expect an upb tho noob.

Metaknight has five methods of recovery with four being decently dependible: gliding, shuttle loop, dimensional cape, tornado, and triple dash. Congrats, you came up with an obvious method for one of his recoveries... Yes, Metaknight can be edgeguarded but it's consideribly harder compared to the rest of the cast.

Gliding u do a move with same priority. Shuttle loop can be spiked or use a move that sticks out. Dimensional cape requires reading him if u think hes guna go for the edge get on it if hes guna go on stage charge up a move. Triple dash wtf? forward B? thats probbably his only safest move with u can still knock him out with the angle/attack. Congrats and thanks.

Gliding: Even if he decides to go under the stage? Also, how many Metaknight's are just going to "allow" you to spike them in mid-glide? The same can be asked about the shuttle loop when he can easily cancel with an attack that covers more than half his body and has more priority than a majority of the game's moves. Dimensional cape: this is the least used method and is usually only done in close edgeguarding situations like if you try to edgeguard him, fail, and then he beats you back to the stage. Triple dash: Angle attack? Do you mean an angled attack? You are aware that the move can be adjusted to change the angle of it's course, right? You talk as if the person is going to go straight forward, land right at your feet and then, in a triumpant voice, you yell "Ha ha, I'll shall smite thee" before launching him into oblivion with a full charged Smash attack.

First of all its not during his glide that u spike him its when he UpB's. If your like bum u can always pull that off but then again ur definition of "pro" is sum1 who ranks 20 and below. Thats exactly what u do lol "I shall smite thee" *fixed* lol get ***** again. and i still dont kno what the hell is a triple dash lmfao. but angle ur moves to cover either more on the lower side or more above duh thats what angling is.

So what you're saying is that the player needs to be directly above him, somehow avoid the "looping slash" at the beginning, and then adjust himself while still in the air to land a spike? That's basically what you said... The triple dash is the name of Metaknight forward B attack. You are aware that not every character can angle their ftilt/fsmash, right? Ugh, why do I bother...

ya nub just got JV 4 STOCKED GET *****

The English Language just cried... Yep, you sure have done your fair share of "pwning nOObs" today, haven't you or, as the highly intelligent inhabitants of game FAQS like to say, OMGWTFLOLBBQOBYNBYOBASAP!

ROFLCOPTERSZ ur still on my pwnt list :p
Right, when so many people are backing you up and your words have so much credibility...
 

PCHU

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Messages
1,901
Location
Jackson, Tennessee
What exactly is classified as "Needs to be banned"?
I'm not seeing ANYWHERE where MK is broken to that extent.
He's fast, he's powerful (in some aspects), and he's got range.
He can fly as well.
But since some of you people can't handle comparison, I'm not even going to bring up Fox or any other character of severe PWNage and say this: Metaknight is just another character.
He isn't some overpowered freak like every n00b thinks Ike is.
I see where you could say that he's too easy to be good with.
But you actually have to do more than spam dsmash.
It takes skill to play him (granted not as much skill as Melee Fox takes, but I see Marth taking Fox's place right now).
Marth was easy to use AND good.
(Oh goodness, I broke my vow. My bad)
My point is that Metaknight is a good character.
But there are other good characters as well.
And there are ways to make bad characters good characters.

Remember the Melee tier list?
Characters have really gotten moved around.
I mean, Jiggz has gone up considerably.
And Kirby has continued to drop.
Now; how did they do this?
By usage.
They used the characters and found out ways to make them better.
And as they got better, others got worse.
Do you see now?
The metagame is never over.
People will continue to develop strategies.
So why ban at all?
We can find a way around him.
It's just some are too blind to see the light that grows dim from all the johners blocking it.
Step up your game, people.
 

Flameheart

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 16, 2008
Messages
20
Location
North Carolina
What exactly is classified as "Needs to be banned"?
I'm not seeing ANYWHERE where MK is broken to that extent.
He's fast, he's powerful (in some aspects), and he's got range.
He can fly as well.
But since some of you people can't handle comparison, I'm not even going to bring up Fox or any other character of severe PWNage and say this: Metaknight is just another character.
He isn't some overpowered freak like every n00b thinks Ike is.
I see where you could say that he's too easy to be good with.
But you actually have to do more than spam dsmash.
It takes skill to play him (granted not as much skill as Melee Fox takes, but I see Marth taking Fox's place right now).
Marth was easy to use AND good.
(Oh goodness, I broke my vow. My bad)
My point is that Metaknight is a good character.
But there are other good characters as well.
And there are ways to make bad characters good characters.

Remember the Melee tier list?
Characters have really gotten moved around.
I mean, Jiggz has gone up considerably.
And Kirby has continued to drop.
Now; how did they do this?
By usage.
They used the characters and found out ways to make them better.
And as they got better, others got worse.
Do you see now?
The metagame is never over.
People will continue to develop strategies.
So why ban at all?
We can find a way around him.
It's just some are too blind to see the light that grows dim from all the johners blocking it.
Step up your game, people.
I agree to the highest level one can possibly agree with an idea.
I'm pretty sure if I took on an MK who was at my skill level against Marth, we'd trade equal wins.

Oh, and Marth's dtilt is the key to defeating MK (and just about every character in the game.) :)
 

salaboB

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 16, 2002
Messages
2,136
I agree to the highest level one can possibly agree with an idea.
I'm pretty sure if I took on an MK who was at my skill level against Marth, we'd trade equal wins.

Oh, and Marth's dtilt is the key to defeating MK (and just about every character in the game.) :)
The Marth boards not only disagree with you, but would love it if you could explain to them why you're able to beat MK when they feel he's Marth's worst match.
 

Steel

Where's my Jameson?
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
7,587
Location
Los Angeles, CA
I agree to the highest level one can possibly agree with an idea.
I'm pretty sure if I took on an MK who was at my skill level against Marth, we'd trade equal wins.

Oh, and Marth's dtilt is the key to defeating MK (and just about every character in the game.) :)
Meta's dtilt is better. Meta wins out.
 

Flameheart

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 16, 2008
Messages
20
Location
North Carolina
MK dtilt is faster, but Marth's is longer. With correct timing, Marth's dtilt is superior.

The Marth boards not only disagree with you, but would love it if you could explain to them why you're able to beat MK when they feel he's Marth's worst match.
Basically I dtilt alot, shield alot, camp alot, stay away from edges alot, walk to tippered fsmash alot, fair alot and spot dodge alot. I suppose it's kinda wussy gameplay, but I run away from MK's nado and if I can't I shield it.

I also take advantage of Marth's range over MK's and wait for him to come to me. If I get hit by one of MK's combo starting attacks, I air dodge, DI, or upB out of it, depending on the situation.

I'm not sure if others will agree, but it works very well for me.
 

Steel

Where's my Jameson?
BRoomer
Joined
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Messages
7,587
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Uh.. no it's not longer.

Meta's dtilt trips, has more range, faster, better IASA frames. The only thing it loses out on is damage, but that's hardly a factor.

Meta is far superior.

You do NOT outrange him.
 

Flameheart

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 16, 2008
Messages
20
Location
North Carolina
I agree with the pros of MK's dtilt, except for his dtilt having more range. I haven't tested it out extensively myself yet, so I can't fully disagree, but when I face an MK instead of wildly tapping dtilt, i wait for MK to get in range and if we ever get into a dtilt battle, once again, I'd say I'd win half of the hits and MK would win the other half.

Also, Marth's sword is much bigger, and even though MK's sword attack range extends past his sword's actual length, I don't think it's quite as long as Marth's.
 

PCHU

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Messages
1,901
Location
Jackson, Tennessee
I meant Melee Marth.

Okay.
I mean let's look at the ways we can outperform MK.
Like find ways to outrange him with attacks.
Find ways around some approaches (we already did with some of them).

And how am I not logical?
Avoid his crap.
Anticipation is key when fighting ANYONE.
Excellent players are excellent because they know how to deal with situations and punish their opponent.
Granted there is no guaranteed win, but there are ways TO win.
Is MK truly fast enough to where you simply cannot deal with him?
Is he that powerful?
If so, then you need to become a better player.

I understand very well that Metaknight is a good character.
I also understand well that in the right hands, he seems impossible.
But there is a flaw in every character's moves, and everyone's playstyle.
I can't tell you how to get around him.
You have to figure it out on your own.
Sorry if I sound illogical or inexperienced, it all depends on your opinion.

That being said, where am I wrong?
It's a poll.
OPINION.
When it comes to opinion, THERE CANNOT BE A WRONG.
Of course, facts can be proven wrong.
But this is all based on MY MINDSET and MY OPINION.
If you can't deal with someone else saying no/yes, then polls are not for you.
Calm down.
=|
 

kr3wman

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
4,639
I meant Melee Marth.

Okay.
I mean let's look at the ways we can outperform MK.
Like find ways to outrange him with attacks.
Find ways around some approaches (we already did with some of them).

And how am I not logical?
Avoid his crap.
Anticipation is key when fighting ANYONE.
Excellent players are excellent because they know how to deal with situations and punish their opponent.
Granted there is no guaranteed win, but there are ways TO win.
Is MK truly fast enough to where you simply cannot deal with him?
Is he that powerful?
If so, then you need to become a better player.

I understand very well that Metaknight is a good character.
I also understand well that in the right hands, he seems impossible.
But there is a flaw in every character's moves, and everyone's playstyle.
I can't tell you how to get around him.
You have to figure it out on your own.
Sorry if I sound illogical or inexperienced, it all depends on your opinion.

That being said, where am I wrong?
It's a poll.
OPINION.
When it comes to opinion, THERE CANNOT BE A WRONG.
Of course, facts can be proven wrong.
But this is all based on MY MINDSET and MY OPINION.
If you can't deal with someone else saying no/yes, then polls are not for you.
Calm down.
=|
Yes, there is no wrong in different opinions...

But there is stupidity.

Asking everyone to just ''Get better'' is not solving the problem or contributing in any way, which is why your posts aren't very logical to me.
 

Steel

Where's my Jameson?
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
7,587
Location
Los Angeles, CA
wow marth boards are saying that MK dtilt has more range then marths? thats overbiased, marths dtilt has far more range. try it for yuorself if you dont believe me
How is it biased? It's complete fact.

I've tested it many times, along with many others.
 

Flameheart

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 16, 2008
Messages
20
Location
North Carolina
Haha, I was joking about the ban MK thing by the way. I still think he should be kept as a character.

I agree with taking MK out for a tournament and see what we get from it.

I also still agree with Marth's dtilt outranging MK's.

I'm gonna make MK my new main so I can learn his weaknesses, then disect each and every one of his moves until I find a counter for all of them.

This is gonna be awesome.
 

ssbbFICTION

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
2,535
Haha, I was joking about the ban MK thing by the way. I still think he should be kept as a character.

I agree with taking MK out for a tournament and see what we get from it.

I also still agree with Marth's dtilt outranging MK's.

I'm gonna make MK my new main so I can learn his weaknesses, then disect each and every one of his moves until I find a counter for all of them.

This is gonna be awesome.
Should take a grand total of 20 minutes. Good luck.
 

AndrewCarlson

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 2, 2008
Messages
367
wow marth boards are saying that MK dtilt has more range then marths? thats overbiased, marths dtilt has far more range. try it for yuorself if you dont believe me
Rubbish. Please don't state your perceptions as fact. Marth's D-tilt may look like it has more range, but Meta Knight's does beat it. I'm a Marth main, so I should know. Why would we lie about our own character?
 

XienZo

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
1,287
>_>

*sigh*

Meta's dtilt EQUALS Marth's fsmash.

Marth's fsmash > Marth's dtilt.
Its obvious! With smashboard laws, since
MKtilt=Marthsmash and Marthsmash>Marthtilt, it MUST follow that Marthtilt>MKtilt in order to preserve the triangle!

But seriously, does MK have a double sword range on ALL his attacks or just D-tilt?
 

Flameheart

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 16, 2008
Messages
20
Location
North Carolina
Its obvious! With smashboard laws, since
MKtilt=Marthsmash and Marthsmash>Marthtilt, it MUST follow that Marthtilt>MKtilt in order to preserve the triangle!

But seriously, does MK have a double sword range on ALL his attacks or just D-tilt?
I'll answer that question in 15 more minutes. As soon as I'm done mastering MK.
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
21,181
Yeah, that took me about 4 seconds to understand.
However that "A" button... curse that thing...
Hold forward and hit A. Alternate between that and holding down and hitting A. It creates a frame trap that's pretty hard to get out of.
 

CR4SH

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
1,814
Location
Louisville Ky.
were talking about highest level of competitive play. theres no need to ban if its "unfun" if you think that, then your a casual player.
Ummm, no. We're talking about the mystical "metagame". Which includes all levels of competitive play. Whether or not you think the lower levels are important they're part of this conversation. Also, fun does matter, since fun is the primary reason tournaments exist.
 
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