Should Metaknight Be Banned? The Poll (LISTEN TO THE SBR PODCAST!)

[M@v]

Lucario-seriously underrated. Besides MK and G&W, he does fairly well against top tiers.

Yeah, fox doesn't go even with MK. It seemed like it, or darn close, for a while. But after some strategy mixups, such as tornado edgeguard, and MK focusing his KO's in the form of edgeguards, it swings in MK's favor by a good margin. Its similar to falco. Fox can kind of keep up on stage (not as good as falco though) ,but gets blown out of the water offstage.

 

[Praxis]

Lucario-seriously underrated. Besides MK and G&W, he does fairly well against top tiers.

Yeah, fox doesn't go even with MK. It seemed like it, or darn close, for a while. But after some strategy mixups, such as tornado edgeguard, and MK focusing his KO's in the form of edgeguards, it swings in MK's favor by a good margin. Its similar to falco. Fox can kind of keep up on stage (not as good as falco though) ,but gets blown out of the water offstage.

See, this here is the problem.

Every week the metagame progresses, Metaknight is getting better. With his ridiculously fast movements, MK players are developing more styles and techniques to further **** the cast.

Meanwhile, EVERYONE ELSE is doing everything in their power to find a way to beat MK with their character...but just get worse and worse against him.


Snake used to counter him. Then they went even. Now MK has the advantage.

Same thing happened to Fox, and now it's an extreme advantage.

Yoshi had an advantage for a bit with the CG...but MK has so many more options that at the highest level, the MK would still win.

It's going to keep getting worse, not better.

 

[Mmac]

Right now, the only "Evenish" Matchup's are Snake, Diddy, Yoshi, and Lucario. The only problem I see is that all 4 are Very Advanced and Technique dependent characters (Although maybe not Lucario), and you have to sink in alot of time to actually successfully counterpick with those characters.

Yoshi had an advantage for a bit with the CG...but MK has so many more options that at the highest level, the MK would still win.

Nobody has ever proclaimed that Yoshi was advantaged to Yoshi. All of us were always proclaiming that we were neutral at best.

 

[Praxis]

Right now, the only "Evenish" Matchup's are Snake, Diddy, Yoshi, and Lucario. The only problem I see is that all 4 are Very Advanced and Technique dependent characters (Although maybe not Lucario), and you have to sink in alot of time to actually successfully counterpick with those characters.

And even then...you'd be slightly better off just counterpicking MK against MK. And he'd be easier to learn too.

 

[Steeler]

It can't help. I can stand in a coffee shop and poll people, "do you like coffee?", but to try and assume this means anything about the general public is wrong. A status report of where a particular biased subset of Smashboards stands can cause harm if it's used to misrepresent the greater community.

smashboards is the home of the smash community...where else would you do it? i'd like to see an explanation on how biased this 'subset' of smashboards is, and why only a particular subset will vote on this, as opposed to the majority of posters here. after all, i'd assume most people check up in tactical discussion every once in a while.

i always thought the greater community is smashboards, but idk. i'm a little confused by your post tbh.

anyway, i think this will be interesting but more helpful would be an sbr vote, since there's no way to screen this poll for people that are actually knowledgeable about the situation, although there are people on both sides of the debate that probably shouldn't vote. i think sbr will just play it safe and stand pat until mk gets RIDICULOUS, so they don't have to really risk anything until then.

 

[Serris]

Everyone's pointing out several things I already addressed.

But, yes, Meta Knight needs to get banned for the sake of developing the rest of the cast.

 

[GofG]

Nobody has ever proclaimed that Yoshi was advantaged to Yoshi. All of us were always proclaiming that we were neutral at best.

This quote is SO GOOD.

 

[otg]

The 37% who voted NO are probably all MK mains lol.

 

[Mmac]

Nobody has ever proclaimed that Yoshi was advantaged to Yoshi. All of us were always proclaiming that we were neutral at best.

This quote is SO GOOD.

I meant MetaKnight! >_<

 

[HeroMystic]

Everyone's pointing out several things I already addressed.

All of this was already stated in that 400-paged Metaknight ban topic. In fact, the discussion should've ended at page 20 (and I kept up with the entire thread).

There really isn't any more room to discuss anything.

 

[Master Raven]

The best Snake in the world (DSF) did better against M2K in MK dittos- on a stage DSF and Mew2King both state is MK's worst (Norfair). He did at one point, but this is no longer the case.

... Didn't M2K 3-stock DSF's MK in under 1:30 and DSF's Snake SDed like twice on Norfair? >_> Unless you're not talking about HOBO 11.

 

[infomon]

smashboards is the home of the smash community...where else would you do it?

There are a variety of other communities that would contest that. allisbrawl is one. I think the fact that a huge number of Smashboarders will never notice this poll is significant. In particular, many will see it from the "ban MK" thread, which itself is obviously biased, and then there are the people that actually glance at the Brawl Tactical Discussion forum; particularly the ones bored enough (and passionate enough about MK) to bother clicking on a meaningless poll. Rather than pursuing interests about how to get better at playing the game. Hmmmm...

anyway, i think this will be interesting but more helpful would be an sbr vote, since there's no way to screen this poll for people that are actually knowledgeable about the situation.

I think this happened, quite recently, and the verdict was largely in favour of not banning MK. I don't have a link, though.

 

[bigman40]

Yoshi had an advantage for a bit with the CG...but MK has so many more options that at the highest level, the MK would still win..

The CG is meant for postioning, and getting a free Usmash kill. Some people think that it's meant for damage when it's not. Also, Yoshi can clank some of MK's potential killers that affect most, if not, all of the other characters (I.E. Tornado). Eggs, when given enough space, can screw MKs and add dmg that'll get them closer to getting killed (granted you'll need to keep MK off of you, which is a fairly tough time if you aren't doing things right). Also, because of Yoshi's awkward movements when attacking, it makes things harder for MKs if they are trying to hit with the tip of the sword.

5:5 just means that he can win a little more than the other characters..For some reason, it feels like when someone states that this or that character goes even with MK, they expect to see him in the scene that much. It won't really happen though.

EDIT: just saw some of your other posts. Yeah, it would still be best to pick MK since he's an offical 5:5.

 

[BigRick]

1) Old Sagat was banned in Japan because he made half the cast unplayable, reduced diversity of the cast, and was arguably the best character in Street Fighter II: Super Turbo. He was not as bad as MK.

Lies

O.Sagat was never banned in Japan... Japanese tourneys have no prize money so nobody bothers playing him since his style is so one-dimensional

Some americans like Choi that went to japanese tourneys in the past did play O.Sagat

just clarifying stuff out

 

[M@v]

See, this here is the problem.

Every week the metagame progresses, Metaknight is getting better. With his ridiculously fast movements, MK players are developing more styles and techniques to further **** the cast.

Meanwhile, EVERYONE ELSE is doing everything in their power to find a way to beat MK with their character...but just get worse and worse against him.


Snake used to counter him. Then they went even. Now MK has the advantage.

Same thing happened to Fox, and now it's an extreme advantage.

Yoshi had an advantage for a bit with the CG...but MK has so many more options that at the highest level, the MK would still win.

It's going to keep getting worse, not better.

I realize this fully. See my sig

 

[Praxis]

Lies

O.Sagat was never banned in Japan... Japanese tourneys have no prize money so nobody bothers playing him since his style is so one-dimensional

Some americans like Choi that went to japanese tourneys in the past did play O.Sagat

just clarifying stuff out

It was a soft ban, BigRick. I'm using Sirlin as my source. Japan didn't put a ban in writing anywhere (Akuma was soft banned too). Some people violated it. Hence why an American could go to the tourney and play O.Sagat.

 

[Drephigami]

if u noobs cant handle meta than just play another game jeez. not like any of u would win tournys even if he was band

 

[Master Raven]

Old Sagat isn't hard-banned, but he is soft-banned in Japan.

 

[GofG]

I hope he didn't get to vote.

 

[HeroMystic]

if u noobs cant handle meta than just play another game jeez. not like any of u would win tournys even if he was band

Gotta love these October '08 posts.

 

[Praxis]

if u noobs cant handle meta than just play another game jeez. not like any of u would win tournys even if he was band

Congrats. You made the stupidest post in the thread by far. Now I can say dumb things without having to worry.

 

[Grunt]

It shows who voted in which category?
WTF???

 

[Steeler]

There are a variety of other communities that would contest that. allisbrawl is one. I think the fact that a huge number of Smashboarders will never notice this poll is significant. In particular, many will see it from the "ban MK" thread, which itself is obviously biased, and then there are the people that actually glance at the Brawl Tactical Discussion forum; particularly the ones bored enough (and passionate enough about MK) to bother clicking on a meaningless poll. Rather than pursuing interests about how to get better at playing the game. Hmmmm...

i always thought allisbrawl was an offspring of smashboards...its only use is as an online matchmaking service. the forums are empty because the vast majority use smashboards for that purpose.

and i pursue interests about how to get better and check this when i'm bored because pt board is dead half of the time.

I think this happened, quite recently, and the verdict was largely in favour of not banning MK. I don't have a link, though.

that's very interesting. i'll take your word for it.

this thread is just kind of a status report imo. it's not perfect, no study/poll ever is. but it's about as good as you'll get at this point in time.

 

[M@v]

Congrats. You made the stupidest post in the thread by far. Now I can say dumb things without having to worry.

Dont feed the troll...

Anyway. Yeah only people that come close to mk atm are falco and snake, and maybe yoshi.

 

[ChocoboDX]

if u noobs cant handle meta than just play another game jeez. not like any of u would win tournys even if he was band

I am ashamed to have made this account in 2008.

Ok, for the record:

Old Sagat = Soft Ban in Japan
Akuma = Soft Ban in Japan, Hard Ban in US (note: this really has little correlation to Brawl)

I own a copy of "Playing to Win", because Sirlin deserves my money.

 

[salaboB]

It shows who voted in which category?
WTF???

It does say that it's a public poll and people can view that, yes...

 

[FFFL]

Oh, it´s so hard to decide between "yes" or "no".
Maybe I should check the other thread.

Argh, it´s so hard to decide, I mean, Melee´s Fox wasn´t banned either.
But then again, he could be countered with Marth. (I think.)

Since MK has no counters (except MK, haahaahaa), I think I´m gonna vote Yes.
It´s not like I´m gonna go to an US tourney anyway. ;<

 

[GofG]

I am ashamed to have made this account in 2008.

Ok, for the record:

Old Sagat = Soft Ban in Japan
Akuma = Soft Ban in Japan, Hard Ban in US (note: this really has little correlation to Brawl)

I own a copy of "Playing to Win", because Sirlin deserves my money.

http://www.sirlin.net/

Take a long, hard look, my friend.

 

[GofG]

Oh, it´s so hard to decide between "yes" or "no".
Maybe I should check the other thread.

Argh, it´s so hard to decide, I mean, Melee´s Fox wasn´t banned either.
But then again, he could be countered with Marth. (I think.)

Since MK has no counters (except MK, haahaahaa), I think I´m gonna vote Yes.
It´s not like I´m gonna go to an US tourney anyway. ;<

If you can't decide, don't vote. It says that in the OP.

 

[Praxis]

http://www.sirlin.net/

Take a long, hard look, my friend.

The site's down

 

[GofG]

No.

Sirlin got a blonde girlfriend who he is offering server space temporarily to sell beef until she has enough money for her own domain.

 

[Xanthus]

I mean I know people complained (with decent reasons) about metaknight, I didn't think there was actually so much support for seriously banning him. I vote no.

 

[Grunt]

lol sirloin steak.

 

[ChocoboDX]

http://www.sirlin.net/

Take a long, hard look, my friend.

Are you perhaps referring to the fact that he has the entire book on his website to read for free?

Once again, I think he deserves some extra cash. I like to think of it as a donation. P;

 

[Super Angry Luigi]

I vote yes.

 

[GofG]

Are you perhaps referring to the fact that he has the entire book on his website to read for free?

Once again, I think he deserves some extra cash. I like to think of it as a donation. P;

No, I am refering to the fact that you should CLICK ON THE LINK.

 

[Master Raven]

I'm somewhat neutral, but I think I'm a bit on the pro-ban side right now. I can most certainly see a more diverse turnout in tournies if MK is banned (at least in areas heavily populated by MKs... MKs never win tournies in FL), so for now I voted Yes.

 

[ChocoboDX]

No, I am refering to the fact that you should CLICK ON THE LINK.

Yes, I see delicious steaks. Now what?

 

[Vulcan55]

o.O
Unrelated to the topic, but what happened to Sirlin's site?

 

[GofG]

Sirlin isn't responding to my emails, but that might be because he can't get to his email. He also vanished from Kongregate early this morning. He might have died!