Should Metaknight be Banned? ***Take 3***

[Arturito_Burrito]

people used whobo to show how mk should be banned

mk's didnt **** apex, top 3 was snake,m2k,iceclimbers/d3, but now thats not legit

That would be because all the MK's that ***** whobo didn't go to apex. Only 2 where there and they both did less than expected. Even if they had gotten 1st and 2nd again it still wouldn't have been as bad.

Also people where claiming whobo wasn't legit because it didn't reach 300 or because it wasn't in the EC. I actually think both are legit but even so apex is a 1 time thing whobo follows a pattern. The only reason COT4 didn't have the same amount of MKs is because lee martin was trying to prove something They also put a wario next to spammers name even though he lost with him and MK was the only reason he got 3rd.

 

[FB Dj_Iskascribble]

Ironing is delicious



I don't think Marth is any better against GAW or Kirby at all, MK has a good advantage on them too. Did forget about pikachu but still, at best Marth has just as many advantages, not more, and he has his disadvantageous matchups to MK, DDD, and Snake.

kirby mk is 55-45
kirby marth is liek 65-35 70-30

mk g&w is 60-40
mk marth is 65-35

Not talking disadvantages, since mk has none (yet)
but he has an increasing amount of evens

That would be because all the MK's that ***** whobo didn't go to apex. Only 2 where there and they both did less than expected. Even if they had gotten 1st and 2nd again it still wouldn't have been as bad.

Also people where claiming whobo wasn't legit because it didn't reach 300 or because it wasn't in the EC. I actually think both are legit but even so apex is a 1 time thing whobo follows a pattern. The only reason COT4 didn't have the same amount of MKs is because lee martin was trying to prove something They also put a wario next to spammers name even though he lost with him and MK was the only reason he got 3rd.

No only two DIDNT go. there rest were there. they did worse than expected because they were outplayed by people who were good with NON-MK.
Whobo doesnt follow a pattern it was missing alot of non-mks that were at other tourneys or didnt go. Whobo was actually the 1 time thing
Who said anything about attendance? Whobo isnt legit due to the whole representation deal.
And that sure isnt the only reason cot4 wasnt dominated. That set was also really close and he lost to a dumb mistake.

Man people are really trying hard to find arguments and they are getting worse and worse quality

 

[Red Arremer]

@spadefox: you did not explain why bowser has an advantage to MK when I inquired earlier.

I guess I've overread it. This thread moves faster than The Flash, sorry. I can't keep up with all posts (especially if I read them before they get editted). I wonder how many times I have to post that link during this thread. Infinite on Meta Knight:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=233550

Also stop bringing up generalizations concerning the pro-ban side, its sill since most of pro-ban and anti-ban is made up of dumb people.

What generalizations? I have pointed out the arguments the Pro-Ban side has brought up, and refuted them correctly. I see no generalization. All I say coming from the Pro-Ban side has been said at one point, even if not by the whole side, but by at least a few - I ususally don't bother to respond to scrubs.

Regardless, there really has not been any true trend of MK being an extremely dominating character.
yes he wins the most often, this is expected seeing as he is the best character. The issue is if he is the only character capable of winning with a reasonable chance.
Does he 90-10 everyone?
Are the characters that go 50-50 with him unviable in every other aspect?

Yes.
Yes.
He has a 90-10 on Ganondorf, I believe.
No, they aren't.

They also put a wario next to spammers name even though he lost with him and MK was the only reason he got 3rd.

They also put Meta Knight next to Lee Martin's name although he only used him in one set.

 

[thumbswayup]

Only losers are on page 420. Real men use 40-per-page.

This.

Too many other reasons support MK remaining legal.
As much as I dislike the *******, there is no reason to ban him.
Hmm, maybe I will secondary MK and see what happens.

Yes, but the main reason is because almost everyone against the ban mains or secondaries him. It's incredibly biased, especially since 100% of everyone who's touched Brawl knows MK is indisputedly the best character in the game.

Now, the only competitive fighters I have been a part of the community for are Melee and Brawl, so I'm not entirely sure what checklist is used to constitute the ban of a character. However, if ever there was a character that deserved to be banned in smash, it would be MK. Don't get me wrong though, I'm still 50/50 on the ban.

 

[noodles]

Oh so you were just +1ing your account. *reports for idiocy*

Too many other reasons support MK remaining legal.
As much as I dislike the *******, there is no reason to ban him.
Hmm, maybe I will secondary MK and see what happens.


Ban a character because he is good?
Thats, terrible reasoning.
characters dont get banned for being bad. HOW good a character is is what makes them get banned.
Which is banned separately.

Several characters can camp it as well.
You can beat planking.
i know this.but some characters have no chance against it. regardless as said below this is usually banned so its a moot point
So...why bother mentioning them?
trying to break down reasons

Play smart and you will win!
Just wait for the MK to make a mistake and you are good to go!
That is bad reasoning.
this is how the game is meant to be played. do you play matches blindly without thinking? that might be why you cant beat mk. because despite all the options mk has hes punishable. even if openings are slim. and honestly that only really happens in high level play
We have to think about MK's capabilities.
How good is MK? Is he unreasonably good?
Does he make it unreasonably difficult to beat him?
Does he, as a result, overcentralize the game?

Saying play smart is hardly enough to justify MK remaining legal.

what makes a character good are the options that character has. that goes for any character in any game. options. thats why i think itd be too hard to really go into detail and really break this down. same goes to matchups. we use percents to say who wins like 45:55, matchups arent really discussed the way they should be. in order to REALLY break down a match up you need to come up with every situation and who has the better options in all of those situations

my replies are in bold

 

[King~]

kirby mk is 55-45




No only two DIDNT go.

this is wrong


whobo had

DSF, Tyrant, Melee1, Domo, Lee Martain(Used mk in a situation where he needed him)

thats 5 not 2

im thinking tourney results should really stop being brought up cause they vary to much depending on how poeple are playing that day.(IE: Lain at whobo getting 33rd or something and then at apex gettin 3rd).

sigh but it seems to be the only way to prove dominance

 

[Red Arremer]

DSF, Tyrant, Melee1, Domo, Lee Martain(Used mk in a situation where he needed him)

Yes. In one set. Against Dedede, one of Lucario's hardest matchups. WOW HE COUNTERPICKED META KNIGHT AGAINST SOMEONE, THIS MEANS HE MUST BE A META KNIGHT PLAYER!!! Also, Melee1 played Ice Climbers. Domo I've forgotten - wow. 3 pure Meta Knights who didn't attend APEX. They sure would've changed the results by like... 30 places, I'm sure.

im thinking tourney results should really stop being brought up cause they vary to much depending on how poeple are playing that day.(IE: Lain at whobo getting 33rd or something and then at apex gettin 3rd).

Or maybe Lain just got better until APEX?

sigh but it seems to be the only way to prove dominance

Meta Knight doesn't dominate as much as everyone says he does. And yes, it's the only proof. Besides I wouldn't count badly placing people (aka noobs and scrubs) anyway.

 

[Vorguen]

I am strongly against the ban and I neither main, nor second, nor alternate Meta Knight.

Meta Knight does not need to be banned, I have gone through Meta Knights in tournies in the past, and instead of the gap continually rising between Meta Knight and other characters it is continually getting smaller and smaller.

Meta Knight is not a free win character, everyone has squeezed out the Meta Knight matchup so bad that any new person picking up Meta Knight would actually be at a disadvantage trying to learn matchups that everyone has already mastered against him.

There is no legitimate reason for Meta Knight being banned. There have been many games in the past with characters who "had no weaknesses" and just because it is the first time it happens in Smash it does not mean it is ban worthy.

He is the best character in the game, but he isn't the only character that can win. Most top tier and high tier characters are going even with him already, and many high and even mid and low tier characters are already coming close (Zero Suit, Yoshi, Bowser, etc)

 

[FB Dj_Iskascribble]

This.



Yes, but the main reason is because almost everyone against the ban mains or secondaries him. It's incredibly biased, especially since 100% of everyone who's touched Brawl knows MK is indisputedly the best character in the game.

Now, the only competitive fighters I have been a part of the community for are Melee and Brawl, so I'm not entirely sure what checklist is used to constitute the ban of a character. However, if ever there was a character that deserved to be banned in smash, it would be MK. Don't get me wrong though, I'm still 50/50 on the ban.

LOL i may be a mk main but its not bias. Go check just who voted no. youll find ALOT more non-mk people then you might think. And mk isnt banworthy because hes the best. Every game has a best. And even with the mk mains and secondaries its not because we just dont wanna play someone else, its about what is LOGICAL and the fact is that he just doesnt fit the criteria to be bannable. Also his style of play fits people. I know someone (new marth main) who if it werent for the way marth plays he'd hate brawl. There are SO many factors to consider so its stupid to just blindly say everyone who is anti-ban uses mk. ITs just not true.
Also we could say "All the people who dont want him banned either; 1: dont use mk, 2: cant beat mk, 3: dont go to tournaments"
and whatever else we want, but we dont (or shouldnt) as its dumb and is easily disproven as an illogical stereotype.

 

[Red Arremer]

Yes, but the main reason is because almost everyone against the ban mains or secondaries him. It's incredibly biased, especially since 100% of everyone who's touched Brawl knows MK is indisputedly the best character in the game.

I secondary him, but I play him because I like his playstyle, not because he's the best character. I can live without Meta Knight as a secondary, as well. It wouldn't hurt my game much if Meta Knight would be banned, I just would feel ashamed of the community I'm in.

 

[salaboB]

Man people are really trying hard to find arguments and they are getting worse and worse quality

Man people are trying really really hard to defend MK and they're providing less and less justification.

See what I did there?

Thrillagorilla - I didn't miss your post but I don't have time to respond to it yet, I'll try my best to get to it tonight.

 

[FB Dj_Iskascribble]

No some people just refuse to listen to logic

 

[ShadowLink84]

what makes a character good are the options that character has. that goes for any character in any game. options. thats why i think itd be too hard to really go into detail and really break this down. same goes to matchups. we use percents to say who wins like 45:55, matchups arent really discussed the way they should be. in order to REALLY break down a match up you need to come up with every situation and who has the better options in all of those situations

That is ahrdly the case, using the data we receive from high level play, we can determine what works for those characters and what does not based uopon the gameplay.
MK has option select, he can answer several options with one of his own, keeping his remaining options open while shutting down the opponents.
Characters that can do such a thing tend to be much better because of how much options they retain.
If you look at every best in a game, you will notice they typically share the same attribute,. maintaining their optinos while shutting the opponents down.

my replies are in bold

I am feeling rather nice so I am going to respond to them.
next time, do quote them properly because having to copy and paste repeatedly is rather time consuming and annoying.

characters dont get banned for being bad. HOW good a character is is what makes them get banned.

Not necessarily. Its more like being so good results in them making it a play this or lose situation.

you can have a great character like Fox and Marth in melee but still not have him be banned.
Same for Old Sagat in SF2 or Chun-li in SF3.
What matter sis their effect on the metagane, not that they are good but how they hurt the game.

i know this.but some characters have no chance against it. regardless as said below this is usually banned so its a moot point

Which is what i mentioned afterwards which makes your reply pointless.

trying to break down reasons

IRRELEVANT reasons.
The sky is blue.
how does the sky being blue contribute to MK being ban worthy?
Thats basically the worth of what you just stated. Which is my point.

this is how the game is meant to be played. do you play matches blindly without thinking? that might be why you cant beat mk. because despite all the options mk has hes punishable. even if openings are slim. and honestly that only really happens in high level play

I am sorry I know you are not speaking to me, because that would mean you are making an assumption, which makes you an ***.
I have beaten Mk users so that statement addressed to me is COMPLETELY USELESS.

Let alone that telling people to play smartly and win is NOT how you justify MK not being ban worthy.
Tell that to peolpe playing SF2 in Japan.
Play smartly against Akuma you will win.
All the Akuma user has to do is play dumb.

Giving advice=/=justification for not banning a character.

Let alone I am anti-ban you friggin twit.

I guess I've overread it. This thread moves faster than The Flash, sorry. I can't keep up with all posts (especially if I read them before they get editted). I wonder how many times I have to post that link during this thread. Infinite on Meta Knight:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=233550
K thank you.

What generalizations? I have pointed out the arguments the Pro-Ban side has brought up, and refuted them correctly. I see no generalization. All I say coming from the Pro-Ban side has been said at one point, even if not by the whole side, but by at least a few - I ususally don't bother to respond to scrubs.

My mistakre then, i misinterpreted your intentions.

Yes.
Yes.
He has a 90-10 on Ganondorf, I believe.[/quote[]
I was asking if he 90-10's everyone.

I know he hard counters some characters badly, but he doesnt do so to the majority mof the cast.

No, they aren't.

Exactly. So there is no reason to ban MK because this isnt a situation of Ravager affinity where you play Ravager or lose. Or play tooth and nail (thereby killing your decks usefulness against others) and lose.

They also put Meta Knight next to Lee Martin's name although he only used him in one set.

Gay

Yes, but the main reason is because almost everyone against the ban mains or secondaries him. It's incredibly biased, especially since 100% of everyone who's touched Brawl knows MK is indisputedly the best character in the game.

Now, the only competitive fighters I have been a part of the community for are Melee and Brawl, so I'm not entirely sure what checklist is used to constitute the ban of a character. However, if ever there was a character that deserved to be banned in smash, it would be MK. Don't get me wrong though, I'm still 50/50 on the ban.

The criteria primarily revolve around a "do this or lose" situation.
Metaknight just does not make the game into something along the lines of "Play metaknight or lose" situation.
yes he has the best chance of winning, as expected, but he also does not remove the chances of other cahracters from winning.

 

[noodles]

im anti ban too.
ill respond sometime tomorrow

 

[thumbswayup]

LOL i may be a mk main but its not bias. Go check just who voted no. youll find ALOT more non-mk people then you might think. And mk isnt banworthy because hes the best. Every game has a best. And even with the mk mains and secondaries its not because we just dont wanna play someone else, its about what is LOGICAL and the fact is that he just doesnt fit the criteria to be bannable. Also his style of play fits people. I know someone (new marth main) who if it werent for the way marth plays he'd hate brawl. There are SO many factors to consider so its stupid to just blindly say everyone who is anti-ban uses mk. ITs just not true.
Also we could say "All the people who dont want him banned either; 1: dont use mk, 2: cant beat mk, 3: dont go to tournaments"
and whatever else we want, but we dont (or shouldnt) as its dumb and is easily disproven as an illogical stereotype.

I enjoy playing against MK, I can beat MKs, I attend a few tournies. I still am strongly considering supporting the ban. And to your "every game has a best" comment, I'd like to point out that even though Melee has been out eight years there is still no general consensus on who the best character is. It's debatable between Fox, Sheik, Marth, and Falco. M2k and Neo think it's Sheik, Azen Chudat and Chillin think it's Marth, and PC Chris thinks it's Fox. There are a plethora of other pros who won't agree on it either. And yet it's already 100% known by EVERYONE that Metaknight is the best character in Brawl, even by those that don't play the game anymore. Isn't that odd? Shouldn't that warrant at least a nationwide experiment where MK is temporarily banned?

 

[brinboy789]

why would M2K sandbag? there was like 210 people at that tournament! theres literally hundreds, or even thousands of dollars at stake! >_>

 

[Red Arremer]

And yet it's already 100% known by EVERYONE that Metaknight is the best character in Brawl, even by those that don't play the game anymore. Isn't that odd?

No it isn't odd, because many games have best characters that are completely recognized as such, yet they aren't banned.
Just saying "Everyone knows Meta Knight is the best character" is not a reason to ban him.

Although it's one of the few true things I've heard.

Shouldn't that warrant at least a nationwide experiment where MK is temporarily banned?

Then Meta Knight comes back, everyone has forgotten how to play against him, gets ***** badly, and the ban is sealed completely because everybody complains.

 

[King~]

Yes. In one set. Against Dedede, one of Lucario's hardest matchups. WOW HE COUNTERPICKED META KNIGHT AGAINST SOMEONE, THIS MEANS HE MUST BE A META KNIGHT PLAYER!!! Also, Melee1 played Ice Climbers. Domo I've forgotten - wow. 3 pure Meta Knights who didn't attend APEX. They sure would've changed the results by like... 30 places, I'm sure.



Or maybe Lain just got better until APEX?



Meta Knight doesn't dominate as much as everyone says he does. And yes, it's the only proof. Besides I wouldn't count badly placing people (aka noobs and scrubs) anyway.

domo is a MK main from MW

i never said they would have, he said 2 when there were more than 2 people who used MK

i also never said lee was an MK main<.< not sure where you got that

when i asked lain about it he said he was having a bad weekend, so idk. good players have bad days wow hmm...

i agree with the last part aswell

im anti-ban BTW

 

[Nic64]

Shouldn't that warrant at least a nationwide experiment where MK is temporarily banned?

not really, in fact, I would call that as ban criteria completely silly and laughable.

 

[Red Arremer]

domo is a MK main from MW

Whom I've forgotten which I admitted. One more person, though, woohoo.

i never said they would have, he said 2 when there were more than 2 people who used MK

Okay, correction: 3 Top Meta Knights were missing. What a difference.

i also never said lee was an MK main<.< not sure where you got that

You said 5 Top Meta Knights were missing. Since Lee only used Meta Knight in one set where he counterpicked, it's a lie to say that he is a Meta Knight.

when i asked lain about it he said he was having a bad weekend, so idk. good players have bad days wow hmm...

Noone ever denied that they have bad days, but I also said that he might have become better. Maybe both applied. Just because Lain placed worse than at APEX doesn't mean that its results are to be ignored.

 

[thumbswayup]

No it isn't odd, because many games have best characters that are completely recognized as such, yet they aren't banned.
Just saying "Everyone knows Meta Knight is the best character" is not a reason to ban him.

Although it's one of the few true things I've heard.



Then Meta Knight comes back, everyone has forgotten how to play against him, gets ***** badly, and the ban is sealed completely because everybody complains.

not really, in fact, I would call that as ban criteria completely silly and laughable.

I'm not even in favor of the ban, just something needs to be done or tried to see which way this community goes.

 

[Red Arremer]

I'm not even in favor of the ban, just something needs to be done or tried to see which way this community goes.

Yes. Don't whine and learn how to play against Meta Knight.

 

[Curaga]

Do not respond to my post unless you understand it.
Otherwise, you make yourself look foolish.

My point to was to criticize people who pull out this one result and then use it as direct proofing for showing MK is not ban worthy.

Lurk moar, post not at all. Kthxbai.

Yeah, I can read english.

And its an additional result. Which is what I said in my reply initially.

Lawlz dude.

And yet it's already 100% known by EVERYONE that Metaknight is the best character in Brawl, even by those that don't play the game anymore. Isn't that odd? Shouldn't that warrant at least a nationwide experiment where MK is temporarily banned?

I know this point is going to be contested fairly quickly, but theres still a healthy amount of people who don't consider Meta Knight the end all be all best character of Brawl. On Smash Boards~ clearly theres also a large amount of people who consider him to be the best hands down. There's a lot of people in and out of the community who don't hold that view, and thats a great thing.

There were times in Melee where certain characters were labelled the best, early in the game's life. Falco and Shielk were certainly big names. Marth players really pushed for his game to raise high, but he wasn't considered a top tier character for some time. Wavedashing shine-fests from Fox really helped the Fox game and he stayed in the top tiers for a long period of time.

So I think the view shouldn't be, "He's the best so soon!" but rather "He's one of the best right now, but other characters are still developing."

Just a thought on that.

 

[thumbswayup]

Yes. Don't whine and learn how to play Meta Knight.

Who's whining? Certainly seems like you are, at least more so than me. I know how to fight MK, I could care less what this community does with the character because I love Melee and despise Brawl to the core. It's just impossible for me to avoid this game because I live in ****ing MD/VA where I'm SURROUNDED by it, and 90% of the people playing it here prefer Melee. Sigh.

 

[Red Arremer]

Who's whining? Certainly seems like you are, at least more so than me. I know how to fight MK, I could care less what this community does with the character because I love Melee and despise Brawl to the core. It's just impossible for me to avoid this game because I live in ****ing MD/VA where I'm SURROUNDED by it, and 90% of the people playing it here prefer Melee. Sigh.

I'm not whining at all, lol. I love playing against Meta Knight.

I love Brawl and despise Melee to the core because of its elitists, and I'm in the same situation as you: Vienna is a Melee city, not a Brawl city. We have like 3 active players here, including myself.

 

[thumbswayup]

If only we could switch places.

 

[Espy Rose]

Then Meta Knight comes back, everyone has forgotten how to play against him, gets ***** badly, and the ban is sealed completely because everybody complains.

Only in the little world you live in. It's silly to assume that everyone would just magically forget the MK matchup.

The only thing that would happen if Meta Knight were temporarily banned would be a near absolute stagnation of his meta game advances (including other characters and their interactions with Meta Knight).

And even then, it's not a complete halt. People will still play MK in friendlies and the like, and people will still go on to study his mechanics (I would speculate that this would be to prove he isn't bannable material, despite what we've put forth here in this thread).

-----

Just for clarity, I disapprove of a temporary ban myself.

 

[salaboB]

Then Meta Knight comes back, everyone has forgotten how to play against him, gets ***** badly, and the ban is sealed completely because everybody complains.

This is another form of slippery slope argument, and it's entirely unjustified.

You have no evidence whatsoever that people would just "forget" how to fight him - heck, part of at least one anti-ban argument is "People don't know how to fight MK so that's why they want him banned." If they already don't know, how will they know even less so that they'll want the ban put in place permanently?

Now, more reasonable might be if you said it this way:

Then Meta Knight comes back, everyone has forgotten how annoying it was to play against him, and the ban is sealed completely because they had more fun when he wasn't allowed.

Is that true? Well, all the banned MK tournaments have had reports of how much people enjoyed not having to face MK. To see if it holds true would require actually banning him temporarily and seeing what the longer term (ie, more than one tournament in a row) results are.

 

[thrillagorilla]

I still am strongly considering supporting the ban.

I'm not even in favor of the ban, just something needs to be done or tried to see which way this community goes.

I'm more confused than DK trying to peel plastic bananas right now. You are leaning towards the ban, but you aren't?

As to your comment about the community doing something, why does it have to be a ban? Seriously, I want to know. If you want to try something new, try getting more tourney organizers to put on low tier tourneys. See, no Metaknight, no DeDeDe, no Snake. Just a whole lot of Falcon Punching.

Also, this is a brawl forum. Its nice that you like melee so much. Its a great game. Stop making comparisons, it does nothing to further discussion. Melee =/= Brawl.

@salaboB: Thanks again, much appreciated. We can get back to our conversation whenever you would like.

 

[King~]

Whom I've forgotten which I admitted. One more person, though, woohoo.



Okay, correction: 3 Top Meta Knights were missing. What a difference.

so what im gettin is since the other 2 people(Melee1 and Lee) used mk as a secondary it is all of the sudden null. which btw we have no clue how much melee1 used mk or not. I guess we just have two diffrent opinons on the matter.



You said 5 Top Meta Knights were missing. Since Lee only used Meta Knight in one set where he counterpicked, it's a lie to say that he is a Meta Knight.

im lost as to where in my post the word top was said???? it was a set that meant the diffrence between 5th and guranteed 4th or something. i dont see how that shouldnt matter, but thats just me.



Noone ever denied that they have bad days, but I also said that he might have become better. Maybe both applied. Just because Lain placed worse than at APEX doesn't mean that its results are to be ignored.

sigh, guess we cant argue this since we both have very diffrent opinons.

 

[Red Arremer]

This is another form of slippery slope argument, and it's entirely unjustified.

You have no evidence whatsoever that people would just "forget" how to fight him - heck, part of at least one anti-ban argument is "People don't know how to fight MK so that's why they want him banned." If they already don't know, how will they know even less so that they'll want the ban put in place permanently?

You have no evidence whatsoever that the metagame would suddenly improve.

Now, more reasonable might be if you said it this way:

Then Meta Knight comes back, everyone has forgotten how annoying it was to play against him, and the ban is sealed completely because they had more fun when he wasn't allowed.

Fun - in the extent of "Man, [insert thing here] is annoying" - is not a reason speaking for a ban. I absolutely LOATHE playing against Marth, yet I would never argue for him to be banned. Ever.

Is that true? Well, all the banned MK tournaments have had reports of how much people enjoyed not having to face MK.

That's because the majority of these people were people already in favour of the ban. Of course, if something annoys me, and I don't have to face it, I enjoy it too. I, personally, would be sad if I wouldn't be able to play against Meta Knight because I really really enjoy it, and it's one of the matchups I have the most fun at, if not THE character I enjoy playing against the most.

so what im gettin is since the other 2 people(Melee1 and Lee) used mk as a secondary it is all of the sudden null. which btw we have no clue how much melee1 used mk or not. I guess we just have two diffrent opinons on the matter.

Lee Martin went all Lucario during the whole tournament, with the exception of ONE. GOD****. SET. This does not make him a Top Meta Knight because I highly doubt he would've used him as main at APEX either, except for maybe certain sets.
I don't know about Melee1, but I assume he used the Ice Climbers to a higher extent, as well.

 

[Overclassed]

The only thing keeping me even considering a ban on MK would be that he influences the game to an extreme.

"How does my character beat metaknight" should not be synonymous with "How far can my character go", and I feel that it may be that way, at the moment.

I think if people got back to concentrating on their own characters, we might see the MK problem subside. There's the distinct possibility that everyone is so focused on what MK can do and beating it that they haven't found what their own characters can do- Spadefox's bowser thread (a great read, by the way: I used to main Bowser :] ) is a fantastic example of this.

my2cents tho.

EDIT: a cool visual :D


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Character development is over here. This way! :<

Player ----------------focus-----------------------------------------------> [BEATING MK]

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx It's here, too. Look over here.

 

[thumbswayup]

I'm more confused than DK trying to peel plastic bananas right now. You are leaning towards the ban, but you aren't?

As to your comment about the community doing something, why does it have to be a ban? Seriously, I want to know. If you want to try something new, try getting more tourney organizers to put on low tier tourneys. See, no Metaknight, no DeDeDe, no Snake. Just a whole lot of Falcon Punching.

Also, this is a brawl forum. Its nice that you like melee so much. Its a great game. Stop making comparisons, it does nothing to further discussion. Melee =/= Brawl.

@salaboB: Thanks again, much appreciated. We can get back to our conversation whenever you would like.

Yeah, I have mixed feelings on the issue. I'm 50/50 on it, but I saw something at Apex that makes me LEAN towards considering the ban. Doesn't mean I'm favoring the ban. What's so hard to comprehend?

 

[thrillagorilla]

You have no evidence whatsoever that the metagame would suddenly improve.

I don't think that was his point, Spadefox. Also, he never said anything about the Meta-game improving without MK.

Origially Posted by Overclassed:
"How does my character beat metaknight" should not be synonymous with "How far can my character go", and I feel that it may be that way, at the moment.

I think if people got back to concentrating on their own characters, we might see the MK problem subside.

I couldn't agree with this more. Though truth be told, I think more about DeDeDe than Metaknight...

@thumbswayup: I can understand being on the fence, you just worded it like you supported both sides. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Red Arremer]

I think if people got back to concentrating on their own characters, we might see the MK problem subside. There's the distinct possibility that everyone is so focused on what MK can do and beating it that they haven't found what their own characters can do- Spadefox's bowser thread (a great read, by the way: I used to main Bowser :] ) is a fantastic example of this.

I made that thread by the request of Liquid Gen who was busy confirming that the CG is an Infinite. I wouldn't have made it otherwise.

And yes, of course, if a character is able to beat one of the best characters in the game (in Brawl's case the best character) after a discovery, it's a breakthrough. Considering Bowser's metagame is one of the most underdeveloped character metagames in Brawl, it's clear we were excited.

Meta Knight had no disadvantageous matchups until now, as well. So that's another breakthrough, as well.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Yeah, I can read english.

Fooled me.

And its an additional result. Which is what I said in my reply initially.

Which had absolutely NOTHING to do with what i was talking about

Lawlz dude.

Very.

I know this point is going to be contested fairly quickly, but theres still a healthy amount of people who don't consider Meta Knight the end all be all best character of Brawl. On Smash Boards~ clearly theres also a large amount of people who consider him to be the best hands down. There's a lot of people in and out of the community who don't hold that view, and thats a great thing.

Wait, what/
MK is the best character in smash, easily!
Its a fact so any opinion saying otherwise is just wrong.

There were times in Melee where certain characters were labelled the best, early in the game's life. Falco and Shielk were certainly big names. Marth players really pushed for his game to raise high, but he wasn't considered a top tier character for some time. Wavedashing shine-fests from Fox really helped the Fox game and he stayed in the top tiers for a long period of time.

We had a much smalelr community with less knowledgeabkle members at the time.
brawl ahs developed incredibly quickly and when you consider the gameplay, the beavior of these characters, MK is going to remain top.
let alone that all the characters you mentioned like marth and fox have ALWAYS been considered either top tier or high tier. So they were already scknowledged to be extremely good fromthe beginning,.
And look, that hasnt changed, they are still considered extremely good and Fox is still considered to be the best character in the game.

So I think the view shouldn't be, "He's the best so soon!" but rather "He's one of the best right now, but other characters are still developing."

Just a thought on that.

He is the best flat out. No one compares to him.

 

[Mortimer]

I also try not to play gay whenever possible to encourage others to play like that as well. This game can be fun and skill based if you play it properly, which is what I want to encourage others to do too. Win with skill.

You say you try not to "play gay," implying that "playing gay" is more effective, but less fair and/or fun. Is it more effective?

As a followup, if "playing gay" is more effective, were you doing it against Ally?

 

[Red Arremer]

You say you try not to "play gay," implying that "playing gay" is more effective, but less fair and/or fun. Is it more effective?

As a followup, if "playing gay" is more effective, were you doing it against Ally?

Yes he did, and against Lain, too.

Stop making assumptions or accusations on Mew2King's performance at the tournament. Seriously, it's annoying.

 

[Mortimer]

Yes he did, and against Lain, too.

Stop making assumptions or accusations on Mew2King's performance at the tournament. Seriously, it's annoying.

Don't be an ***. I asked a perfectly valid question, prompted by his statements.

 

[Red Arremer]

Don't be an ***. I asked a perfectly valid question, prompted by his statements.

He said "whenever possible" in that post. He said he "played as well as he could" in several of his other postings regarding his games against Lain and Ally.

He didn't sandbag. He didn't play at any less rate than his peak.