Should Metaknight be Banned? **Take 2** (Post-podcast)

[PhoenixoKaZe]

their isn`t rly any point to banning him since ppl go down to the next strongest on the list o-o (Snake)

 

[Natch]

their isn`t rly any point to banning him since ppl go down to the next strongest on the list o-o (Snake)

Um, Snake has bad machup. MK doesn't.

Oops, there goes your argument.

 

[Sephiroth27]

No, no more "slippery slope" arguments.

Oh well I'm done arguing. The "lolimar" comment made me happy.

 

[PhoenixoKaZe]

Um, Snake has bad machup. MK doesn't.

Oops, there goes your argument.

true, but doesn`t mean he should be banned, since mk`s hve weaknesses just like any other charcters, cept he has alot of advantages to cover them. Alot of ppl actually hve found ways to beat mk. Like most posts before me said already, it`s player skill not always how good the charcter is XD ^^

 

[BentoBox]

oh. well, you could have responded like how aeghrur did. a more...respectful, but instead, you chose to flame me. silly people these days.
)

You are being arrogant and yet, you really don't know anything and then you ask other people to contribute to a thread which you are single-handedly destroying. Why should I be respectful towards you? (don't reply plz)

 

[Inui]

While Inui brings up some good points, I have no idea whether they are credible or not without some sort of reference.

I gave you a bunch of numerical facts. Turn on your Wii and verify them if you want.

Don't trust character boards. They are full of scrubs. I'm a real, proven top national class player that wins big tournaments. I have a vast amount of high level experience, which includes many tournament sets in both singles and teams with Mew2King since Brawl came out.

I gave you extremely good arguments on why those match-ups are close, why Snake wins, and why MK has numerous matches that he can very easily lose, and you disregarded my opinions and facts in favour of scrubby character board garbage.

You said many foolish things about MK not having bad matches and you admitted to not knowing how to beat him said you failed every attempt. Read what I said and try it all out. MK is perfectly beatable.

 

[bobson]

their isn`t rly any point to banning him since ppl go down to the next strongest on the list o-o (Snake)

Um, Snake has bad machup. MK doesn't.

Oops, there goes your argument.

Man, this thread sickens me.

 

[JeDVicious]

I was against metaknight before, but then I listened to the podcast...
yeah i still think he should be banned

 

[PhoenixoKaZe]

Man, this thread sickens me.

O_O, it`s kind of pointless lol XD ^^

 

[Atomsk_92]

this is why i don't post in here often because most people have no idea what they're talking about

 

[XxBlackxX]

matchup boards arent that accurate. have you seen the ike matchup boards? o.o



oh. well, you could have responded like how aeghrur did. a more...respectful, but instead, you chose to flame me. silly people these days.



lol, same. i wish they could argue without flaming, like how shadowlink84 does. move...civilized

lol, but after saying MK's dtilt isn't disjointed, im sorry, but i rather think you deserved it. >_>

 

[da K.I.D.]

to inui
this is a serious question with no ulterior motive behind it

you say that you played many matches to levels high enough to know how MK does in them. you also say that you beat people who use said characters.

does that mean that you beat the people that you played against with skill only?

 

[Natch]

true, but doesn`t mean he should be banned, since mk`s hve weaknesses just like any other charcters, cept he has alot of advantages to cover them. Alot of ppl actually hve found ways to beat mk. Like most posts before me said already, it`s player skill not always how good the charcter is XD ^^

....

I gotta bust out the weaknesses post AGAIN?!

1. He has "no" weaknesses.
Before you harp on me for this, MK has no de facto weaknesses against the majority of the cast. As an example, a character could be made that dies in one hit, but has an instant kill move that is garunteed to hit. Sure, he dies in one hit, but that doesn't matter because he'll kill you first. His weakness does not exist, for all intents and purposes.

MK is like this, though to a lesser extent. He does have weaknesses on paper, but for whatever reason, they don't seem to make that much of a difference. It should be noted that the characters that can put up a fight are the ones who can exploit his weaknesses consistantly and effectively.


2. He has an answer to everything.
MK has too many options that are all above average. Whatever you do, he has an answer to it. The characters that do well against him are those that have better answers. But even that isn't enough. You need have to a fair amount of "better answers," or the right combination. The last option is to flatout have a strategy that can and will work against anyone, assuming the opponent makes a mistake. Take Diddy, for example. If you make a mistake, he will get you with a bannana, which usually leads to a free hit. Everyone has to deal with this. If you manage to beat Diddy, you still didn't beat his bannanas. You can never truly beat the bannanas, just the Diddy who uses them. This is called a brick wall.

This is why MK has 60:40's across the board, and the reason why previously questionable/bad matchups are now shifting. Snake, GaW, and Falco are examples. Once they found a tactic that worked, the matchup changed.


3. He is fundamentally different from every other character in the game.
How can a character have NO disadvantaged matchups? They either have to be perfectly designed and have absolutly no weaknesses, or they have to have something so incredibly powerful it essentially breaks the game. MK falls into the latter. His certain "something" is that his sword has wacky priority. MK's sword will never actually clank. This is called "Transcended Priority." It it is a big giant b****.The only way to actually hit MK is to attack before his hitbox comes out, or outrange him utterly and completely.

MK's sword is like a mobile projectile. Now, it's accepted that projectiles are brick walls. You must get past their projectile before you can actually fight your opponent. Whenever MK does a move, it's a brick wall. Brick walls mean that any weaknesses the character has do not matter, as you are not fighting the character. Once a brick wall is broken down-if possible-or gotten around, you can start actually fighting the character. The problem with MK is that his brick walls can be deployed in an instant.

In order to even stand a chance against MK, you either need a brick wall that the PLAYER cannot find a way around, or you have to continiously jump through a series of hoops. Shield the Tornado. Spotdodge the Down Smash. Avoid the Shuttle Loop. Stay away from the Dtilt. Airdodge through his Dair.

The list goes on and on.

The reason why his 60:40 matchups aren't worse than 60:40 is because there are enough pros who can jump through these hoops on instinct, and the average players who don't use MK have enough skill compared to those that do that it's possible for them to win. All the character has to have are good brick walls, and moves that actually outprioritize MK's moves-which are very rare. These in large part are one in the same, as the majority of brick walls are projectiles.


GENERAL NOTE: Exceptions are not the norm. If you find an exception, it doesn't disprove what I said. Assume I'm a reasonable and flexible person, that I apologize for my incorrect statement, and change it to include the exception.

 

[ShadowLink84]

this is why i don't post in here often because most people have no idea what they're talking about

/close topic
By the way atomsk I always imagined you to have longer hair.

 

[Deleted member]

Why didn't anyone share the first vote with the community!

cause usual SBR policy is "**** you guys, good luck" which I don't appreciate.

 

[Atomsk_92]

to inui
this is a serious question with no ulterior motive behind it

you say that you played many matches to levels high enough to know how MK does in them. you also say that you beat people who use said characters.

does that mean that you beat the people that you played against with skill only?

Now your pissing me off


me and inui were talking about this last night when were playing

he asked me is your main mk yet? and i said no because i wouldn't want my placings in tourny to only be given credit because of mk

**** like that makes me mad (yay time to meat ride XD ) inui was placing just the same before he mained MK except for one bad day he had that all of you are riding him for

serioulsy this ****s getting annoying

 

[bobson]

this is why i don't post in here often because most people have no idea what they're talking about

I've only stayed in here for the past five pages or so because your signature is hypnotizing and every time I stopped looking at it there was a new page.

 

[Atomsk_92]

/close topic
By the way atomsk I always imagined you to have longer hair.

i cut it the day before this past tourny

 

[BentoBox]

Atomsk is a space pirate. Space pirates have no hair.

 

[ShadowLink84]

cause usual SBR policy is "**** you guys, good luck" which I don't appreciate.

Thats rather disheartening to hear such a thing

i cut it the day before this past tourney.

ah so thats why it looked so fresh.

 

[Clevr]

It be interesting to see how many MK mains are in the Anti-Ban side, and how many people who main other characters are in the Pro-Ban side.

This way we can see (if selfishness is an issue) which side has more people who only want a certain outcome because it benefits them best.

 

[Deleted member]

Now your pissing me off


me and inui were talking about this last night when were playing

he asked me is your main mk yet? and i said no because i wouldn't want my placings in tourny to only be given credit because of mk

**** like that makes me mad (yay time to meat ride XD ) inui was placing just the same before he mained MK except for one bad day he had that all of you are riding him for

serioulsy this ****s getting annoying

Sonic's his name and speed is his game.

lol

 

[Inui]

to inui
this is a serious question with no ulterior motive behind it

you say that you played many matches to levels high enough to know how MK does in them. you also say that you beat people who use said characters.

does that mean that you beat the people that you played against with skill only?

I don't know what you're trying to get at here or prove. I'm a really good player that understands the game very well, so I have lots of skill to use when it comes to winning. Skill alone doesn't determine things. How well people are playing, a bit of luck, stages, etc., can affect things.

 

[Atomsk_92]

Sonic's his name and speed is his game.

lol

Too easy, Piece of cake.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Atomsk

why do i make you mad?

its been a while since inui switched mains. and im not saying that he wasnt good before, stop getting so wild and bent outta shape brah.

alls im saying is that a change and switch of character and player abilitys and skills can happen over time.

i dont know who he played against back when he played marth and pit, compared to people he plays now and how good they are and how big the skill gap is.

all im asking is if he feels he beat people on skill since he personally said that he felt helpless in matches.

Inui
like i said, i dont have ulterior motive with the question.
and im not trying to cut and paste your words so if you feel im doing that, let me know.
you last post makes it sound like you feel like you got lucky to get the wins that you got
scratch that. its sounds like you are saying that everyone is about the same level, but its just a day by day thing that determines who gets the win

another question without any motives behind it that i think you answered already.
why DID you switch to MK. your are doing the same as you did with marth and pit, why do you play snake/MK now

 

[ShadowLink84]

Too easy, Piece of cake.

It doesn't matter, because you're too slow, you can't hold on much longer, you need to open your heart before you can reach the other side of the rainbow.

Spoiler

lol steak

 

[Inui]

I felt helpless against AlphaZealot's Diddy Kong on Battlefield for some reason. Atomsk has crippled me entirely many times with Olimar, including a threestocking in the first match of a set. Situations like this occured regardless of me being Meta Knight because of how well the other players played and how skilled they were against Meta Knight.

I do feel like I win largely off of skill and knowledge, but sometimes lucky stuff happens. I was lucky that NinjaLink made mistakes, I was lucky last night when Atomsk suicided in a match, etc. Stuff like that is bound to happen.

 

[Atomsk_92]

Atomsk

why do i make you mad?

because i feel bad for people who use mk because when ever they do well in tourny the first thing people try to say is its just because of MK

I was lucky last night when Atomsk suicided in a match, etc. Stuff like that is bound to happen.

SD'd 3 times on frigate and SD'd last stock last match XD your lucky i didn't try to be homo and cypher gimp you because of your mistake XD

 

[BentoBox]

*closes thread to end a bad chapter in smb history*

 

[ShadowLink84]

SD's are a boon and a curse.

 

[Silent Laughter]

You know what I noticed? You people are presenting the same exact arguments over and over again.

"He breaks the counter pick system, why use anyone else?"

"We needs to ban him to give other chars a chance to shine"

"anyone can use him"

I honestly don't give 2 ****s if he's banned but if you want MK banned you people have to come up with new arguments. You people have been making these same arguments since august. Only they've been disguised, rephrased, and sugarcoated. I'm sorry, but when you crack these arguments down, they all come down to one of the 3 listed above. Making these same arguments have done NOTHING to MK.

 

[da K.I.D.]

because i feel bad for people who use mk because when ever they do well in tourny the first thing people try to say is its just because of MK

duh.

thats just the stigma that comes along with playing a borderline character.
of course people are going to blame wins on MK
its effing MK. hes wayyy good, its stupid the stuff he can do. thats how it works

but if the people are really good, eventually they will do something or play a character that proves that they really are skilled and deserve the wins they get....

or theyll try to playa different character and get ***** and then ppl will know that its only cus of MK

one or the other

at the post above mine, the anti ban side is the same exact way with rephrasing and restylising their arguments.
it goes both ways...

 

[HeroMystic]

You know what I noticed? You people are presenting the same exact arguments over and over again.

Welcome to two months ago.

 

[Frosty brawl]

hell yah lol hes kinda cheap i heard the pod cast but turned it off the first 2min cuz i couldent undertsna d 1 word

 

[Velox]

interesting, the fact that "yes" is winning

it's weird because it has to fight the common ideology from melee that banning characters is wrong

therefore, taking that into account, the "yes" seems utterly overwhelming, although it seems socialist

 

[ShadowLink84]

It is a stigma that should not even be mentioned.
We should be looking at things as objectively as possible.

Inui did place similarly as he did in the past.
Only reason everyone heckles him is that he switched after losing to Kai's Sonic.
He really shouldn't be crucified considering he is indeed a good player.

However, I am still gonna heckle him for it just for laughs.

 

[Inui]

you last post makes it sound like you feel like you got lucky to get the wins that you got
scratch that. its sounds like you are saying that everyone is about the same level, but its just a day by day thing that determines who gets the win

I don't feel like I get lucky. I just acknowledge what happens. Other people have gotten lucky against me. I lost a set to BlackWaltz because of a 0% SD, and the match was still last hit. I easily would have won otherwise. Oh well. There are many factours that determine the results of matches. Skill is by far the largest one, but other stuff can and does matter.

If by "everyone" you mean "top players, region by region," then yes.

Top players are very even in skill. In NJ, Atomsk, teh_spamerer, and I are pretty much even. In MD/VA, there's lots of even level players like Forte, ChuDat, Chillin, Omni, and NEO. Stuff like this is common in regions.

another question without any motives behind it that i think you answered already.
why DID you switch to MK. your are doing the same as you did with marth and pit, why do you play snake/MK now

I am actually doing slightly better as MK/Snake now, but that's mostly due to me improving drastically as a player. My mentallity is much better, I'm more confident, and I'm having more fun.

I switched because I got frustrated by Dedede and Meta Knight while I mained Marth. I didn't like constantly fighting the two most overused characters in NJ over and over and over and being at a disadvantage constantly.

I originally picked up Snake in order to have a better character for teams and to counter MKs.

I picked up MK because I wanted a good answer to Dedede and my drive to win told me to use the best character. On top of that, I have significantly more fun with MK than any other character because I hate camping and like fighting, so I need a character good at fighting. Most characters have to camp forever.

 

[XienZo]

interesting, the fact that "yes" is winning

it's weird because it has to fight the common ideology from melee that banning characters is wrong

therefore, taking that into account, the "yes" seems utterly overwhelming, although it seems socialist

Overswarm promised cake if MK is banned. No one care about ideals when cake is involved.


Anyhow, I believe that MK actually changing how people place has been completely unsupported by any decent facts and there is no reason that MK (or the lack of him) would change how people place at all.

 

[da K.I.D.]

by everyone i mean everyone in your area

and by everyone in your area i mean the good people in your area...

 

[ShadowLink84]

Cake?
CAKE!?


BAN MK WE WANT CAKE!