Should Metaknight be Banned? **Take 2** (Post-podcast)

[kr3wman]

Snake can do a few things while recovering. Recovering high prevents MK from reaching him in time due to MK's poor horizontal aerial movement. From that , if Snake is above the stage itself, C4 drop to airdodge prevents juggling traps or Tornado. If he's still not above the stage by the time his Up-B finishes, however, airdodging is his only option, which gives MK opportunities to send him offstage again.

Snake can do a few things while recovering. Recovering high prevents MK from reaching him in time due to MK's poor horizontal aerial movement.

Recovering high ... MK's poor horizontal aerial movement.

Recovering high ... horizontal

IE : Just shuttle Loop.

 

[Turbo Ether]

I'm seeing new strategies from Snakes players abusing platforms, "b-sticking" to change aerial momentum and innovative camping. So, as of this moment I now think the air isn't that problematic for Snake, and that platforms are a good thing. The B-sticking thing isn't easy to do consistently with default controls, so the only Snake i've seen that really implements it well is Hall.

 

[1048576]

How is that hard to understand? Melee was like Rock/Paper/Scissors (sort of). Marth beats Falco, Falco beats Sheik, Sheik beats Marth, with Fox going even with (but not completely destroying) all of them. Now What if, in that analogy, Fox were not just tied with those three Rock/Paper/Scissors characters, but better than all three?

That's Meta Knight. Other characters can counterpick and be counterpicked, but Meta Knight cannot be. He's like a nuclear explosion; he beats rock, paper, and scissors. How is that fair?

Then again, if none if this is makign any sense, tell me that. It's making sense to me though.

Actually, MK is like a Fox that beats Marth and Falco, but goes even with Sheik. You still can't have a stable metagame, though. Eventually everyone will flock to Fox because there is no reason not to. Of course, this hinges on the MK Snake matchup being even. If Snake is a counter, then I'm anti-ban, but I'm still not convinced that he is.

 

[fox 100000]

Metaknight sucks i don't see why he should be banned. Maybe you people should get better and then you won't think metaknight is so good.

 

[Fox Hater]

Sheik with needles/chain, Peach with fsmash/utilt/Toad, Meta Knight with Shuttle Loop, Zelda with fsmash/usmash, Samus with full-charge shot, Zero Suit Samus with Plasma Whip, Marth with Dolphin Slash/Counter/tipper fsmash/Dancing Blade, Snake with grenade, Ice Climbers with Blizzard, Diddy with bair (I think?) and bananas, and probably a couple others I don't know of since I don't play every character in the game.

I dont need the whole list I know almos all of them cause we made a thread to post everything that countered the whorenado. Its hard to explain with words but a true MK pro wont spam the tornado in an unsafe position but when the oportunity comes he will and most of the characters mentioned above cant do nothign except for marth and snake who can get out of the tornado. the others have to w8 for MK to eat their shields and get away, after that he will start to give free damage.

You could not be more wrong. <3 Diddy.

yeah kind of forgot about diddy. but he cant really escape the tornado(once MK gets u and ur shielding) but since he small and fast he can get away and throw bananas etc etc.

What I mean with the tornado is once MK gets u. almost all characters cant counter and if they shield its hard to punish execpt for Marth ( dancing blade) or snake. or during shielding up B with marth.

Dont get me wrong I always like to challenge against my marth any MK. Its interesting.

Kozimoto, don't bring up that anecdotal crap nor arguments without support.
Same goes for Fox_Hater with his Tornado=invincible thing. >_>

I always laugh at people who think im some kind of scrub/whiner but I'm not. I even went to vegas this summer I beated a lot of guys over there when I used to main DK and Marth and no MK i repeat no MK over there beated me. The only guy that gave me problems was SK92 ( his falco was really good). so this is not something im saying cause Im scared or something like that. I study all character weakness and come to the conclusion MK has none and has to much of an advantage to almost al the characters except snake but still there are ways to **** snake with MK and I know most of them.

 

[Sephiroth27]

Great, now we have someone trying to rationalize Snake's air game against Metaknight.

Hell, none of Snake's disadvantages are really that bad. It's all working out quite well for him. 0:100 Snake.

 

[NeoCrono]

Metaknight sucks i don't see why he should be banned. Maybe you people should get better and then you won't think metaknight is so good.

To be honest, I hate people like you. If you think that people have not been trying and getting better so they can beat MK, your wrong. People have been trying and having little or no success. So unless you have something intelligent to say, stop posting here please.

 

[marthmaster59]

closest thing to a combo i ever got on meta knight (my friends rarely use him) is using spamming sonic's Nuetral B

 

[Cloud Cleaver]

With the system as it is now, I'm in favor of a ban on MK. He seems to stifle the metagame of other characters, and thereby the diversity of tournments. With thirty-seven different characters to choose from, it's a real shame to see so many players use MK or Snake.

I think a better option would be to have a different ruleset. Have a bracket of normal play, like it is now. Have another bracket where only High tiers and below can participate. Have another bracket strictly for mid-tiers and below. Et cetera, et cetera. Encouraging people to play with characters they like is a good thing...playing MKs all day long just makes the game repetitive and boring, especially when they keep kicking your *** by default.

 

[towelie892]

To be honest, I hate people like you. If you think that people have not been trying and getting better so they can beat MK, your wrong. People have been trying and having little or no success. So unless you have something intelligent to say, stop posting here please.

I'm going to go ahead and guess that that guy has only ever played a CPU Meta Knight. I'm not even going to grant him a level 9; level 5 at most.

 

[brinboy789]

The anti-ban side presented 1 matchup that is arguably 55:45 MK's favor. That's not a very strong point.

arguably? gahhhhhhhh if your going to say snake > MK 55:45, give me a detailed analysis to WHYYY, not OMG HE CAN GIMP HAHAHA....no. just no. try again.

With the system as it is now, I'm in favor of a ban on MK. He seems to stifle the metagame of other characters, and thereby the diversity of tournments. With thirty-seven different characters to choose from, it's a real shame to see so many players use MK or Snake.

I think a better option would be to have a different ruleset. Have a bracket of normal play, like it is now. Have another bracket where only High tiers and below can participate. Have another bracket strictly for mid-tiers and below. Et cetera, et cetera. Encouraging people to play with characters they like is a good thing...playing MKs all day long just makes the game repetitive and boring, especially when they keep kicking your *** by default.

how exactly does MK hinder the metagame? sure he ***** several chars, but the chars taht he ***** get ***** by the entire top tier. hell, dedede ***** more chars then him. D3 makes more chars singlehandedly unviable then MK. if your getting your *** kicked automatically when you verse any MK, that means you verse the best in the world or you flatout suck. no foffense, but if you automatically lose when your opponent choses MK...

 

[Sagen du Smash]

I don't think Meta Knight should be banned for a simple reason. Because he holds the highest spot on the list, more people will work on tactics to get around Meta Knight with their mains than any other character.

 

[Mmac]

Looking at Dedede's Matchups though, I have to wonder why he is so high on the tier list. I know he has good tournament results, but his matchups against the higher tiers are just.... wow....

Even if he destroys lower tiers, the matchups tell me he constantly struggle with the high tier characters


Edit: People also have to understand that we aren't banning MetaKnight just because he's top on the tier list

 

[Sephiroth27]

arguably? gahhhhhhhh if your going to say snake > MK 55:45, give me a detailed analysis to WHYYY, not OMG HE CAN GIMP HAHAHA....no. just no. try again.

Yes, arguably. I personally believe the matchup is 50/50 (I'm not the only one). Oh, and when you come across someone that actually does think the match is in Snake's favor try to not limit their argument with "no. just no. try again." That would be like me saying list all the disadvantages Metaknight has against Snake except "he's light" and "has trouble killing Snake." You can stop hanging on to Jesiah's analysis on the matchup like it's absolute truth as well.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

redundancy

Why do you ask every new person who comes in here the same things over and over again? You say almost the exact same words every time too.

 

[M.K]

I don't think Meta Knight should be banned for a simple reason. Because he holds the highest spot on the list, more people will work on tactics to get around Meta Knight with their mains than any other character.

My god, do we have to spell this out for everyone?!

We are not just sitting around twiddling our thumbs waiting for the SBR to make a decision. We have tried a BAJILLION tactics to beat MK with MAAAAANY characters, and all have failed terribly.

God ****, why do people think we are completely helpless WHINERS?

 

[XtACY]

Metaknight sucks i don't see why he should be banned. Maybe you people should get better and then you won't think metaknight is so good.

no. what are you talking about.

 

[Cloud Cleaver]

The flaw with MK is the same flaw with every other top-tier character, except more exaggerated, as befits his superiority: his very existence lowers the diversity of characters used in tournaments. Part of the cast just can't stand up to him in tournaments at all, and the rest are outshined to the point where most new smashers would rather just pick MK. Sure, it's competitive. But doesn't it get overwhelmingly dull fighting the same characters all the time? It's just like playing against Ike, Ike, Ike, Ike all the time on Wi-fi, except here they tend to be better.

 

[Deleted member]

sorry to spoil the *****fest in here but the SBR voting closed. 15 on the ban side vs 35 on the anti-ban side, as opposed to 15 vs 29 from the last vote.

I wouldn't count on a MK ban any time soon.

 

[XtACY]

did m2k count as 90% of that anti ban vote?!

 

[Deleted member]

did m2k count as 90% of that anti ban vote?!

no, he had 1 vote out of 35.

 

[Sephiroth27]

How many on the anti-ban side main Metaknight or have him as a secondary?

 

[GwJ]

I'm gonna throw my two cents out here.

I'm pro-MK ban. Having a character with no disadvantages, and only a few near-neutral character counterpicks, he severely lowers the diversity of characters you can play as. If MK was out of the scene, the metagame could rapidy grow moreso than if MK was still here. It just makes sense. It's not like banning broken characters is uncommon either.

e: There's too many people on the board. Xo Also, I don't like the news.

 

[Inui]

sorry to spoil the *****fest in here but the SBR voting closed. 15 on the ban side vs 35 on the anti-ban side, as opposed to 15 vs 29 from the last vote.

I wouldn't count on a MK ban any time soon.

Jason told me the anti-ban side was winning big time. Good to know it stayed that way.

We are not just sitting around twiddling our thumbs waiting for the SBR to make a decision. We have tried a BAJILLION tactics to beat MK with MAAAAANY characters, and all have failed terribly.

Well, then you suck.

MK is perfectly beatable. He has a bad match and several evenish ones, so there are many ways to beat him.

The argument you're using is very scrubbish and whiny indeed.

 

[Deleted member]

How many on the anti-ban side main Metaknight or have him as a secondary?

2 people. Kel and Mew2King.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Overswarm mains him but is on the ban side if it means anything.

 

[deepseadiva]

sorry to spoil the *****fest in here but the SBR voting closed. 15 on the ban side vs 35 on the anti-ban side, as opposed to 15 vs 29 from the last vote.

I wouldn't count on a MK ban any time soon.

SBR secrets! Quick hide them before your eaten by spotted Asian bears!

 

[Sephiroth27]

He has a bad match

Can we get a definition of "bad match?" While we're at it we might as well get definitions of "even matches" and "good matches" because they seem to change from time to time.

 

[Deleted member]

Overswarm mains him but is on the ban side if it means anything.

Overswarm mained ROB, went to several tournaments and won. Then he said he was going to main MK, stopped going to tournaments, and went to a few recently and lost as MK to non-MK players and did worse than he did in his earlier tournaments as ROB.

If anything, switching to MK to prove that he's broken and subsequently failing only strengthens the anti-ban argument.

 

[Shadow_of_Link]

So no ban eh? I guess I'll just have to work harder on my anti-meta camping skills.

 

[ShadowLink84]

stuff

You need a haircut and a shave.

 

[XtACY]

i just wanna see a tourney where there are no mk players.

 

[NeoCrono]

I guess its time to switch to MK lol jk
But in all honesty, its up to the tournament organizer.

 

[Atomsk_92]

sorry to spoil the *****fest in here but the SBR voting closed. 15 on the ban side vs 35 on the anti-ban side, as opposed to 15 vs 29 from the last vote.

I wouldn't count on a MK ban any time soon.

How many on the anti-ban side main Metaknight or have him as a secondary?

2 people. Kel and Mew2King.

the amount of **** that just happened here made me orgasm XD

 

[brinboy789]

sorry to spoil the *****fest in here but the SBR voting closed. 15 on the ban side vs 35 on the anti-ban side, as opposed to 15 vs 29 from the last vote.

I wouldn't count on a MK ban any time soon.

I knew this day would come :D

its like the armageddon, cept in a good way XP

 

[XtACY]

I guess its time to switch to MK lol jk.

where is piskatoway located?

 

[Cloud Cleaver]

Just make one where he's banned, then. It's not like you have to let the SBR dictate every move you make. In fact, I'm baffled as to why the competitive community does that. There's a clear pro-ban majority here. If MK-allowing tourneys were just boycotted, he'd be banned in more places.

EDIT: Wow, that filled up fast. This was at XtACY.

 

[BentoBox]

Does this mean we can move on now? >^_^<

 

[Inui]

Can we get a definition of "bad match?" While we're at it we might as well get definitions of "even matches" and "good matches" because they seem to change from time to time.

Snake beats him 55/45 in most cases. It's probably 60/40 on FD and Halberd and 50/50 on Rainbow Cruise and Brinstar.

I don't really consider nonsense stages like Corneria, Norfair, etc. because they are banned in Atlantic North almost all the time.

Meta Knight only wins 55/45 against Diddy Kong, Game and Watch, Falco, ZSS, Wario, and Olimar.

Dedede, Marth, R.O.B., Toon Link, Pit, Lucario, Kirby, and Donkey Kong do not lose any worse than 40/60 to MK.

These match-up numbers are based largely on results and experiences from Atlantic North, mostly my own experiences playing the matches with other pro players and watching them get played out as well.

 

[Atomsk_92]

yes it does XD@ stop posting in here XD