Shoot First, Ask Questions Later: The Samus Tactical Discussion & Q&A Thread

[ZitchX]

This is very handly on big characters.

Falling on the foes shield with a u-air drains thier shield ALOT and it shield pokes which can lead to smashes/jabs/tilts....ect

however

What if it doesnt shield break or poke? Before you hit the ground, buffer an UP+B. This will do 1 of 2 things.

1. hurt them
2. get you out of the failed situation

its VERY VERY VERY hrd to get shield grabbed if you do it right. EVEN ddd has trouble.

Thank you... I get it ... Can you solve the other things?

Zx

 

[Xyro77]

what are they?

 

[ZitchX]

what are they?

Is Bthrow good for gimps?

Would Bair -> Reversed Jab... work at certain percents?

Is Middle CS a good idea?

You seem like a good Samus to ask

Zx

 

[Xyro77]

Is Bthrow good for gimps?

no.

however, if you are near the ledge, bthrow is the best grab option you have.

Would Bair -> Reversed Jab... work at certain percents?

no. if it DOES work, the foe is trashy

Is Middle CS a good idea?

I use it ALL the time. NO ONE expect a med CS to be fired off

You seem like a good Samus to ask

Zx

i am the best

 

[n00b]

xyro will shoot a charge shot at me regardless of its charged strength as long as he knows it will hit me and add damage.

xyro is the best.

 

[Smash G 0 D]

Yeah the FIRST time I ever played Xyro, he'd stand there chargin a shot and I'd be like 'lulz missil3 sh0tZ' then he'd let go and it'd go through my missiles and hit me.. too good xD

 

[NO-IDea]

This is very handly on big characters.

Falling on the foes shield with a u-air drains thier shield ALOT and it shield pokes which can lead to smashes/jabs/tilts....ect

however

What if it doesnt shield break or poke? Before you hit the ground, buffer an UP+B. This will do 1 of 2 things.

1. hurt them
2. get you out of the failed situation

its VERY VERY VERY hrd to get shield grabbed if you do it right. EVEN ddd has trouble.

Every top tier has a good Oos option that can hit before you reach them with u-air. (MK's up+B (counters GW's b-air hard core so I know it can counter Samus's u-air), Snakes u-tilt, D3's u-tilt, Marth's up+b just to name Samus's hardest match-ups of which this will not work.)

In the instance it does land on their shield because they can't out prioritize you and play defensively, and you try to get out of the failed situation, up+b only works on certain stages (BF, Delfino, stages with good platforms). Otherwise, they keep their shield up and punish your landing lag. Unfortunately, up+b also stands to be your best chance to get out of the failed situation if you start with u-air. I do agree though... it's very very hard to get shield grabbed. It's also not the scariest thing they can do to you.

The wishful thinking that people don't know what Samus can do becomes irrelevant as you go higher up in tournament play. Everyone's played samus for fun once in their life (not surprising either, she's IS fun.) u-air to up+b is a decent combo when it lands, horrible when it doesn't. Which thus brings forth the question: how often should you use it? I say rarely and keep to the ground if they're shielding.

And I've never seen u-air shield poke before. I've seen up+b shield poke and shield ****... never u-air. I've also seen idiots drop their shield half way through u-air and get hit by it... but not by definition a shield poke. Honestly, if the shield wasn't fresh, then possibly if they don't angle it. If they do angle it, I wouldn't expect the poke to occur. I might expect the follow-up up+b to shield poke, but if they were angling it, they should naturally DI out, only being hit by the start-up frames of up+b... meaning they can still punish landing lag.

I only argue the use of grab and d-smash because in the case where you're on the ground and he's shielding... those are your best options (which isn't much at all). IF you're in the air and he's shielding, you don't really have many options to begin with either besides d-air and u-air (and bomb, but that's hardly shield pressure since I'd expect you to DI away from them as the bomb lands.) D-air gets punished if you don't fast fall and/or buffer the side-dodge wrong and u-air... just gets you into ****ty positions when it doesn't land (which you shouldn't expect it to since they're shielding...)

There's nothing wrong with just playing it safe and resetting spacing if he's shielding and you're in the air either.

That's all for now.

 

[LanceStern]

I agree with both No IDea and Xyro. I just don't like grabbing because it's ridiculously slow. And uair can get punished OoS when you're trying to come down on them. Trying it at high level play gets you beat up, and Up + B is not a good "get out of there situation" unless you have platforms otherwise they chase you down and punish.

I think Dsmash (the first strike in front of her) is the best shield option, because it has the most shield knockback and stun, plus you can hit it pretty far away from them. It's hard to punish dsmash if you've hit their shield. Fsmash needs you to be too close and if they shield they have enough time to come back and punish

 

[NO-IDea]

Wait.[/QUOTE]

Rhyme's answer to the best shield pressure option. This, my friends, is pro advice. lol

Eventually they'll either spam side-dodge in hopes of relieving their dying shield problem, attack or roll away. Nubs roll behind you XD.

The first two Samus has good answers for. If they roll away, you might be able to land the dash grab, but you could be better off just working on your spacing again.

If they do keep the shield up, I still stand by charging/hitting with d-smash or just get away and occasionally mind game a grab in.

 

[Cherry64]

I agree with both No IDea and Xyro. I just don't like grabbing because it's ridiculously slow. And uair can get punished OoS when you're trying to come down on them. Trying it at high level play gets you beat up, and Up + B is not a good "get out of there situation" unless you have platforms otherwise they chase you down and punish.

I think Dsmash (the first strike in front of her) is the best shield option, because it has the most shield knockback and stun, plus you can hit it pretty far away from them. It's hard to punish dsmash if you've hit their shield. Fsmash needs you to be too close and if they shield they have enough time to come back and punish

grabbing is honestly a huge part of her game, it presures the opponent so much. keep spam in front of you and approach, I grab like 35% of the time now and it's good, just learn to be good with it and samus does instantly better. Grabbing helps lots after you've racked up lots of damage, it gives you back space, it pisses them off, slows the pace down and lets you breathe a bit.

don't under estimate it, just be smart with it.

 

[Xyro77]

Every top tier has a good Oos option that can hit before you reach them with u-air. (MK's up+B (counters GW's b-air hard core so I know it can counter Samus's u-air), Snakes u-tilt, D3's u-tilt, Marth's up+b just to name Samus's hardest match-ups of which this will not work.)

They have an answer yes, but if the shield is already weakened, the uair will shield poke and not allow them to attack OOS. NEVER use my combo on a FULLY shielded foe.

In the instance it does land on their shield because they can't out prioritize you and play defensively, and you try to get out of the failed situation, up+b only works on certain stages (BF, Delfino, stages with good platforms). Otherwise, they keep their shield up and punish your landing lag. Unfortunately, up+b also stands to be your best chance to get out of the failed situation if you start with u-air. I do agree though... it's very very hard to get shield grabbed. It's also not the scariest thing they can do to you.

UP+B works every where if you do what i said above. from FD to green greens

The wishful thinking that people don't know what Samus can do becomes irrelevant as you go higher up in tournament play. Everyone's played samus for fun once in their life (not surprising either, she's IS fun.) u-air to up+b is a decent combo when it lands, horrible when it doesn't. Which thus brings forth the question: how often should you use it? I say rarely and keep to the ground if they're shielding.

I use it to build up damage and refresh my moves once in a while. it snot something you should do all the time.

And I've never seen u-air shield poke before. I've seen up+b shield poke and shield ****... never u-air. I've also seen idiots drop their shield half way through u-air and get hit by it... but not by definition a shield poke. Honestly, if the shield wasn't fresh, then possibly if they don't angle it. If they do angle it, I wouldn't expect the poke to occur. I might expect the follow-up up+b to shield poke, but if they were angling it, they should naturally DI out, only being hit by the start-up frames of up+b... meaning they can still punish landing lag.

i created this ****, it works. You just have to do it right. The videos below are vs the best Link in the USA. I use this combo here and there are it works 90% of the time because i followed my rule.

Xyro(samus) Vs Legan(link)

1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AZ-fDJvxNI
2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1vdcXsoc_k
3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTorQI42uZM
4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZxrqEznuUo

I only argue the use of grab and d-smash because in the case where you're on the ground and he's shielding... those are your best options (which isn't much at all). IF you're in the air and he's shielding, you don't really have many options to begin with either besides d-air and u-air (and bomb, but that's hardly shield pressure since I'd expect you to DI away from them as the bomb lands.) D-air gets punished if you don't fast fall and/or buffer the side-dodge wrong and u-air... just gets you into ****ty positions when it doesn't land (which you shouldn't expect it to since they're shielding...)

Much to learn, you have

 

[-Crews-]

this has probably been asked a million times but im not going through 28 pages to find out so ill just ask, what is the best move to momentum cancel with? i am currently using uair but im not too sure if its the best or not. any sggestions?

 

[n00b]

^ uair to bomb/double jump. z-air off the top kills you faster

i haz a question

how do i win samus dittos

thx

 

[Xyro77]

^ uair to bomb/double jump. z-air off the top kills you faster

i haz a question

how do i win samus dittos

thx

yea crews, Uair to bomb is the best way.

I use zair to kill myself faster because in teams i MUST get back down to help my partner.

Noob, it may just be dittos. Its all about out smarting the foe because BOTH of you have the same tech/stages/spacing. Just out think them.

 

[Rhyme]

And I've never seen u-air shield poke before.

Your Uair needs to hit the character without hitting the shield. It's easier to do when your opponent is on a platform, but not impossible when the opponent is grounded. FYI, first aerial on a fresh shield should never shield poke.

Rhyme's answer to the best shield pressure option. This, my friends, is pro advice. lol

I was being serious. Most opponents have an OoS option for whatever Samus does, so they will punish it if they predict you. Wait and the scenario will reset.

They have an answer yes, but if the shield is already weakened, the uair will shield poke and not allow them to attack OOS. NEVER use my combo on a FULLY shielded foe.

Many characters have a viable OoS option vs. Samus that doesn't require them to wait until her Uair hits their shield.

 

[Xyro77]

Many characters have a viable OoS option vs. Samus that doesn't require them to wait until her Uair hits their shield.[/COLOR][/FONT][/B]

then it wouldnt be OOS. they would be doing it as you are about to attack thier shield

 

[NO-IDea]

@Rhyme: I know you were serious. And seriously, if they tilt their shield, u-air doesn't shield poke. That's like arguing MK's tornado shield pokes. Yeah... if your facing someone ********. Even on a weakened shield, tornado doesn't shield poke until the shield borderline breaks if you tilt correctly.

(EDIT: Correction, and perhaps I should have clarified this. It doesn't shield poke when they're shielding on the ground if A)They tilt correctly and B)Their shield isn't insanely weakened.

With that said, yes it does shield poke if they're on a platform once their shield gets somewhat weakened.)

And yeah, it's not Oos if they intercept rather than shield.

@Xyro: Wait... what? Watched the videos. Never saw a shield poke. Closest thing to it happening was on Brinstar... but he dropped his shield early, it didn't poke. Another time on Delfino... he also let it down to early, to do what I don't know. It looks like a shield poke... but u-air also doesn't shield poke on a fresh shield so it can't be. Unless you want to argue it does on that too. And up+b doesn't work to get you out of the mess if they shield all the way. It's just people act stupid and don't shield all the way.

However, you did land it several times before he was able to hit the ground (did it a couple times where he was trying to air dodge and land too) and follow up with up+b. Smart. Just not shield pressure.

That Link's f-air cancel combos are beastly. He starts getting ***** when he starts trying to beat you in a spam match though. lol He did well when he got close though. Can't imagine how hard it was to do that >.>. Good **** Xyro.

You never tether gimped though. Not once =.= It works and ensures a free hit if Link gets onto the stage. Reset for more invincibility frames with up+b mixed in with repeated tethers. Your DI needs work too... it's good at times, but not consistent. And seriously, u-air to up+b is not a legit shield pressure option. These videos don't prove anything to contradict that.

Can we all agree that the Samus vs. Link match-up is not in Link's favor? I recall people arguing it was, especially some Samus mains... these videos are a clear example of how hard it is for Link to approach Samus to use his close-range game.

 

[Xyro77]

That Link's f-air cancel combos are beastly. He starts getting ***** when he starts trying to beat you in a spam match though. lol He did well when he got close though. Can't imagine how hard it was to do that >.>. Good **** Xyro.

You never tether gimped though. Not once =.= It works and ensures a free hit if Link gets onto the stage. Reset for more invincibility frames with up+b mixed in with repeated tethers. Your DI needs work too... it's good at times, but not consistent. And seriously, u-air to up+b is not a legit shield pressure option. These videos don't prove anything to contradict that.

Can we all agree that the Samus vs. Link match-up is not in Link's favor? I recall people arguing it was, especially some Samus mains... these videos is a clear example of how hard it is for Link to approach Samus to use his close-range game.

At first i thought it was in links favor( ill admit i was one of those) but after playing the BEST link available, and i had a comfortable lead nearly the whole time.....its in samu favor, by a little. DO NOT COMPETE with his melee attack, you will not win. Spam wise, you will always win if ya do it right.

u-air to UP+B is IMO the best shield pressure attack and i will not sway away from this. weaken the foes shield with 2-3 hits then go for it, 95% chance you will shield poke and force damage on him. Samus sucks in all melee areas and her grab is ****ty, up+B after uair is the way to go.

As for tether gimps, i cant do it. Each time ive tried in the past i get hit, no one has told me the BEST was to do it. So i rely on other things and it works fine. if there is a vid or a HOW TO, ill start using it more often. Its kinda like the ledge/platform cancelled CS thing. Cant do it so i wor without it. Its also like the new tech i found out, i cant do it good enough so i work without it.

 

[KillerJawz]

Ive got a quick question kind of related to CREWS question.

I use U-air for momentum cancelling then do a bomb, but the bomb gives me a very large boost which effectivly kills me, what am I doing wrong there?

 

[Rhyme]

then it wouldnt be OOS. they would be doing it as you are about to attack thier shield

As an example, MK can do his upB OoS if G&W already has the turtle out. MK doesn't need to wait for the turtle to actually hit his shield.

@Rhyme: I know you were serious. And seriously, if they tilt their shield, u-air doesn't shield poke. That's like arguing MK's tornado shield pokes. Yeah... if your facing someone ********. Even on a weakened shield, tornado doesn't shield poke until the shield borderline breaks if you tilt correctly.

And yeah, it's not Oos if they intercept rather than shield.

Uair can shield poke better than tornado if you know what you're doing. In Brawl, an attack shield-pokes if none of the hitbox touches the shield (your attack's hitbox must only touch the opponent's hurtbox). Tornado is sluggish and has a huge hitbox, so chances are that at least part of it will touch the shield and be blocked. By contrast, Samus' toes have a very small hitbox which is easier to aim around the shield.

I agree that the opponent can tilt the shield to prevent poking most of the time. However, Samus should be launching many projectiles, and your opponent need only use their shield on a few before shield-poking becomes a viable option.


If I'm shielding and I interrupt shield to do an attack then it is an out of shield option.

 

[NO-IDea]

As an example, MK can do his upB OoS if G&W already has the turtle out. MK doesn't need to wait for the turtle to actually hit his shield.

Agreed. I pointed that out earlier.


Uair can shield poke better than tornado if you know what you're doing. In Brawl, an attack shield-pokes if none of the hitbox touches the shield (your attack's hitbox must only touch the opponent's hurtbox). Tornado is sluggish and has a huge hitbox, so chances are that at least part of it will touch the shield and be blocked. By contrast, Samus' toes have a very small hitbox which is easier to aim around the shield.

Actually, the hitbox is from her waist to her toes. With that being said, it's not a small hitbox and can be blocked easily if you tilt the shield upwards. "Uair can shield poke better than tornado" if they don't know what they're doing would be a more correct phrase. And again, we shouldn't rely on people not knowing the Samus match-up anymore.

I agree that the opponent can tilt the shield to prevent poking most of the time. However, Samus should be launching many projectiles, and your opponent need only use their shield on a few before shield-poking becomes a viable option.

Use of projectiles would be decent shield pressure at long range, but by the time you close-in to optimize on their weak shield, they probably would go on the offensive or rely on spot dodging/rolling. What I'm trying to say is that the opportunity to use uair on a weak shield won't occur often. IF you get the opportunity, awesome. Most likely, you won't.

YOU WILL often get an opportunity to use that combo on falling opponents. U-air->up+b ***** people who attempt to air dodge and land safely. Don't try it on Lucario/Peach tho XD.

If I'm shielding and I interrupt shield to do an attack then it is an out of shield option.

Sorry, I mis-interpreted what you said earlier. You're right about Oos.

 

[Rhyme]

I should have taken more time to explain what I was talking about. You're right because Samus' entire Uair hitbox is quite large. However, I'm talking about how the hitbox converges at Samus' toes. That tiny area can be used more accurately than the bottom of tornado as a shield poker.

It all depends on how you typically approach. Unlike Wario and D3 who have the means of breaching your shield (bite and inhale) while airborn, all of Samus' aerial options are beaten by correct shielding. Therefore, it is somewhat safe to assume that your opponent will missread you and get shield-poked a few times because (s)he expected you to do something different. I don't think that you should use Uair on shields often, but that's not to say that this situation wouldn't arise normally in a match either.

Against certain characters, I find myself getting punished for landing an upB. Sometimes I'll go for a rising SH-Uair/Nair, or sometimes I skip to the tapA or Dsmash to try and push the opponent away. So, my question is, what other moves do you guys like to use for following up a ground-canceled Uair?

 

[Smash G 0 D]

Jab is always amazing. You guys all know how to jab cancel? Like, jab crouch jab crouch jab crouch? Just do that then let out the second hit and mess with their minds. xD

 

[n00b]

Jab is always amazing. You guys all know how to jab cancel? Like, jab crouch jab crouch jab crouch? Just do that then let out the second hit and mess with their minds. xD

jab cancel is prob my fav. zair -> dash attack -> jab cancel -> downward fsmash (or one time i upsmashed you for moar damij) is prob my bread n butter combo when i get a zair off, *** an up B

on the ledge, dash attack -> jab cancel -> run off dair YAYUH

 

[Smash G 0 D]

Yeah the dash attack jab cancel usmash was niiice

On floaty characters you should be able to jab cancel jabs a few times xD I was doing this to LLOD's Jiggs earlier today

 

[Cherry64]

yeah, link you can jab cancel twice if he was already in the air a bit and thenF smash before he can do anything. n00bs dash to jab cancel to spike is too good btw, I've used that so so so much. super ****, works well on link as well. and kirby. I've only missed once on all the kirbs I've played.

 

[Judo777]

i see alot of samus players using uncharged shot to a dashing grab but i was wondering if a jump cancel homing missle to dash grab would be better. It moves slower and i'm curious as to if its timed right if you can grab during the shield stun to make the grab unavoidable?

 

[n00b]

homing missile cancel to dash grab is better, you just gotta time it so they cant spot dodge the dash grab. if you want you can use homing missile to uncharge to dash grab, aka Serris combo

 

[TGM]

homing missile cancel to dash grab is better, you just gotta time it so they cant spot dodge the dash grab. if you want you can use homing missile to uncharge to dash grab, aka Serris combo

to add on, if you KNOW they will spot dodge it, run past them and pivot grab.

 

[n00b]

i want to make a post about options/mixups for dashing in, since dashing in is my preferred approach w/ samus. F all yall spammy camper samuses

if u wanna be flashy, run at him, turn around to sliding reversed full charge shot then spam crouch and then taunt.

 

[Rhyme]

i see alot of samus players using uncharged shot to a dashing grab but i was wondering if a jump cancel homing missle to dash grab would be better. It moves slower and i'm curious as to if its timed right if you can grab during the shield stun to make the grab unavoidable?

Your timing would have to be pretty tight because there isn't much shield stun. UCS is better IMO because it's harder to sidestep and can be fired under a greater number of circumstances (which makes it harder to predict and thus harder to avoid). I incorporating a lot of UCS into my game though, so what I said above might be a personal preference.

 

[Crescens]

samuses

The plural of Samus is not Samuses, but "Sami" - Ex. "Look at all those cacti, octopi, and Sami!"

Anyone who maintains otherwise shall get a quick chozo chop to the face.

 

[IsmaR]

F all yall spammy camper samuses

This.

The plural of Samus is not Samuses, but "Sami" - Ex. "Look at all those cacti, octopi, and Sami!"

Anyone who maintains otherwise shall get a quick chozo chop to the face.

Am I the only one who's initial reaction was "Who the hell is this?"

 

[Cherry64]

This.


Am I the only one who's initial reaction was "Who the hell is this?"

nope. I'm curious as well. I luurve the serris combo, works so well it's not even funnay!

 

[Crescens]

Nobody, at best.

In the dreary suburbs of Calgary, competitive Brawl is not a popular pastime. Wifi in my area is too slow to partake. So there's really no point in posting often. But this was an absolutely integral point to Samus' metagame that I had to bring up!

 

[Cherry64]

Nobody, at best.

In the dreary suburbs of Calgary, competitive Brawl is not a popular pastime. Wifi in my area is too slow to partake. So there's really no point in posting often. But this was an absolutely integral point to Samus' metagame that I had to bring up!

I like yew! you live an hour away from meh! gotta love AB peeps, our wi-fi would be excellent! we should try it sometime lol

 

[Crescens]

I like yew! you live an hour away from meh! gotta love AB peeps, our wi-fi would be excellent! we should try it sometime lol

Yeah, Calgary represent! How much lag do you generally get on Wifi when playing people nearby? I tried quite a few times when Brawl was relatively new - but even when playing people down the street, the lag was unbearable. In anycase, I'll send you a PM if/when I have time and we can try it out. Don't count on it though! With school starting shortly, I'll be pretty busy - I won't know for a while if I actually have time to, you know... have fun.

I don't suppose you've had much luck finding a local tournament scene either, eh?

rhyme showed me that i need to use upsmash more and i think i showed him he needs more goofy bomb setups <3

You must elaborate on this! What situations do you tend to use it, and what sort of setups do you go for? Unfortunately, it's probably the only move in Samus' handy arsenal that I never use.

 

[Cherry64]

no one uses her bombs. I only spam them when facing the ice cucumbers, and the enarest local scene is edmonton lol. your closer than I am to it

jsut get used to the online button lag

 

[Smash G 0 D]

I like my opponents to be inbetween me and my bombs. That way they're pressured from moving back into the bombs, and end up getting hit by my ftilt, which hits them into the bomb anyways.

 

[Cherry64]

I like my opponents to be inbetween me and my bombs. That way they're pressured from moving back into the bombs, and end up getting hit by my ftilt, which hits them into the bomb anyways.

he likes to exaggerate Ftilts knockbak a bit you'll get used to it