Shining Force II Mafia || Game Over! Who lived happily ever after?

[No Lynch]

Zen/Soup, your take on RR's most recent post. Ignore the lynching thing I already addressed.

He's acting odd already and the way he is playing doesn't sit right with me. I (and likely zen) don't understand why he needed to proclaim that he was going to lynch differently based on 'player skill.'

Considering RR, I wouldn't be surprised if he's just trying something different.

 

[Rockin]

Rockin, What do you think of this defense from Felipe.

Pretty weak.

So far the only things i have done is trolling Bardull and following the Dark Horse wagon. Cant see how that is antitown.

Not sure, i am bad reading people. INothing solid for the moment.

You're not contributing to the game at all. You're not trying to ask people questions, or trying to find scum in general. You not doing any of these things makes your motives anti-town.

Why are you even on the Dark Horse wagon?

 

[felipe_9595]

You guys are incredible, really. This is like the fifth i said ignore that post. I misreared the name of who wrote it.

 

[Rockin]

You guys are incredible, really. This is like the fifth i said ignore that post. I misreared the name of who wrote it.

Well it wasn't intentional, completely. He asked me a question, so I answered it.

In either case, you should learn to relax a bit.

@mod: Can I suggest that if we want to lynch 'No Lynch', can we do 'Vote: Lynch' instead, so we can tell the difference between player and an option of what we could do?

 

[felipe_9595]

He already said if we want to no lynch we should vote Vote: No Lynch Target

And sorry, iw as stressed because today was the release date of the demo 0.8 of Super Smash Bros. Crusade (A fangame i was working on), so i had a hard day working >_>

http://www.gamefront.com/files/21368563/Smash_Bros_Crusade_ver._0.8.exe

Finnally here at least

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Swiss: Let's assume I get lynched now. Who do you go after?

Ryker, answer this after Swiss.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

*upon a town flip

 

[No Lynch]

Seems like there was a small bit of info here and there

What info have you gotten?

Oh Ruy you know Ryker can't do that with his vote on Dark Horse =P

Huh what do you mean?

 

[No Lynch]

So during night zero I was roleblocked and vote blocked, I'm going to ask the mod first what happens if I try voting before I attempt it.

1. Did you get a message saying you were roleblocked?

2. Did you get a message saying you were voteblocked?

3. Why would you attempt to vote?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

1. Did you get a message saying you were roleblocked?

2. Did you get a message saying you were voteblocked?

Both were in the same PM saying I saw Voteblocked, then roleblocked.

3. Why would you attempt to vote?

To confirm me being voteblocked, but I didn't read the vote counts confirming globally I was.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Saw = was.

I suck at spelling.

 

[felipe_9595]

Will not be here tomorrow. Someone messed uop really badly and the game's online mode and classic mode is broken >_<

 

[vanderzant]

With 13 Alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Red Ryu has been Silenced, and any votes they cast will not be counted for the remainder of the Day!

Voting:
Dark Horse (4): Swiss, No Lynch, Ryker, Bleck Mang
felipe_9595 (2): Dark Horse, Rockin
Jdietz43 (1): th3kuzinator
No Lynch Target (1): felipe_9595

Not Voting (5):
dabuz
July
Orboknown
Jdietz43
Red Ryu

 

[vanderzant]

@mod: Can I suggest that if we want to lynch 'No Lynch', can we do 'Vote: Lynch' instead, so we can tell the difference between player and an option of what we could do?

For all intents and purposes, Vote: No Lynch will be treated as a vote for the respective player slot. Refer to the below rule for information on how to cast a vote for No Lynch Target:

[Collapse=Voting and Lynching]
3. No lynch target is a viable lynch choice and a majority will end the Day without a lynch. To do so, use the command Vote: No Lynch Target[/Collapse]

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Sorry. But what is this. You started pushing me only because i joined the wagon. Why you are not pushyng Swiss or No Lynch (wait, you only voted them, but desisted)?? Maybe because you think i am a weak player???

I'm pretty sure you're talking to me here.

You're putting words in my mouth. I started holding suspicion when I reread and saw that you had hardly any solid reads. Your lackluster defenses so far, including a blatant OMGUS, have practically proved my suspicions correct.

The reason I'm attacking you now is because your overall reaction has been terrible, much worse than either NL or Swiss.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Swiss, if I told you I was 100% sure Ditz was scum would you switch to his wagon on the assumption that I shot DH toNight?

 

[th3kuzinator]

Only you can make such a statement with but a vote. I await your reasoning.

I'm surprised. You've been quite analytical this game yet have failed to notice how transparent Ditz is being.

He's being way too cautious. All of his posts have a backdoor attached. He hasn't taken a firm stance on a single thing. When asked who he'd want to lynch toDay, he said leaning Dark Horse but that that feel was diminishing because of the scene Felipe was making (implying that he felt Felipe was scummy/a higher priority), yet fails to even comment on his read on Felipe. He then closes the post by saying that, if he had to guess, Bardull is town but that read in analogous to guessing that the sky was blue. When he's called out by Swiss for posting so safely, he retorts that it's because Swiss is asking him safe questions.

My problem with him isn't because he has a lack of stances, it's that every stance he attempts to give comes with an escape route attached.

 

[No Lynch]

That's fine reasoning.

*awaits huge July post*

 

[No Lynch]

Kuz what are you thinking wrt Felipe?

 

[July]

That's fine reasoning.

*awaits huge July post*

Err yeah, sorry about the incoming wall, I have midterms I'm attempting to study for and just can't tackle this thread any other way than through stream of consciousness.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Rockin, anti-town is not the same thing as scummy. Felipe may be playing anti-town, but that's not an indicator of his alignment. You should know better.

I also find it hard to believe that 8 pages of Dark Horse being defensive and overreacting only warrants him being stupid in your eyes. His push definitely has merit. You also say that you don't see what you hope to gain from a DH lynch but I doubt you see many connections from a Felipe lynch considering you're pushing him for not doing anything.

 

[July]

JDietz and No Lynch conversation was legit, JDeitz didn’t hesitate to answer the questions No Lynch threw at him and they seemed like genuine answers. Meanwhile, I liked No Lynch’s attempt to get info from JDietz and I think he asked the right questions of a new player.

1. ~Bleck Mang~ (J/Gord Hydra) - Have you learnt to follow me blindly, or are you determined to try and become average?
2. dabuz - Who are you? Have we played before? Provide links to any previous DGames games.
3. July - You're easy to read. Forget what was said in the ranking thread. I'll have you pinned after a few posts. My question to you would be, how long til you have me pinned?
4. Rockin - Say something interesting. Poignant.
5. Bardull - I hear you're bad. Is this only as a certain alignment, or are merely incompetent?
6. Dark Horse -Is it of concern that you are transparent? If you had to vote either myself or Ryker now - why would it be Ryker?
7. Swiss - I understand you're the best player on DGames. Tell me, though, are you theatrical?
8. Orboknown - Ask me one question. Anything other than my role/alignment. My answer will be true and concise - question must be your next post.
9. Jdietz43 - You are who?
10. felipe_9595 - Do as I say.
11. Red Ryu - What is your game plan? Go in depth. Are you suspicious of NL (No Lynch)
12. No Lynch (Zen/Soup Hydra) - Speak.
13. Ryker - Shall we tell them? Admit or deny? I could out us now.

I honestly have no idea, possibly never. Just...be town and make it easy please.

DH’s first post (#45) seems extra suspicious for no apparent reason. Taking that with a grain of salt, however, since I always find his play scummy and I’ve seen him turned into the easy lynch D1 before.

Bleck Mang’s first posts, #53 and #54, are alright, want to see him more engaged in the game knowing how both J and Gorf usually play.

Bardull going after Swiss for his questions which he found “disturbing” seems like the kind of misguided step town would make; if he’s scum, trying to draw Swiss’s attention to him that early is a pretty bold move and I don’t think that was the case.

Bleck Mang’s #80:

@DH

I just wanna know what made you question Zen's questioning of JDietz? Did you think it was scummy? Did you really not know what he was doing? I'm sure if you ask just about anybody aside from maybe Felipe (I'm so sorry no offense <3) they'll get what he was doing =p

Is coming across as passive in dealing with DH. These questions don’t really apply pressure to DH, it’s a very casual way to get information out of DH but I don’t know how much these questions will truly help in establishing a read/scumhunting on DH.

I agree with Swiss’s #92 that Bardull is dumbtown. DH scum I’m not completely sold on; I think what’s more incriminating than his not answering questions/being over defensive is that he seems suspicious of everyone and doesn’t make any attempts to alleviate those suspicions by asking questions, he just continues with his defensiveness and then reinforces his own suspicions based on the other person’s suspicion of himself.

#138 from Bleck Mang:

Bleck! Get out of that mindset mister! If you think Swiss needs to be looked at, it shouldn't matter that others don't, it's your job to convince them and get them to understand where you're coming from duder. Whether all of town sees the merit in what you're saying or not shouldn't matter as long as you think he needs looking at.

Is true, but it’s an entire post dedicated to giving advice and not to advancing their read on Bardull.

#144 from No Lynch is probably the best summation of why DH is scummy as opposed to dumb town, reinforces the town read I’m getting on No Lynch as well.

Rockin, assuming Felipe can't be targeted toDay, who do you want to die? Don't give me some half-***** answer. One name.

July, put Dark Horse at L-1 for me?

Not yet, the Day is still quite young and there people I’d like to hear more from and suspicions I’d like to see people follow up on toDay as well. However, I will say that DH seems like a viable lynch right now and he is one of the top lynches I am considering.

July, feel free to ignore this request.

Ryker might be fishing for a quick lynch like he did in Utricked. I do not want him to do this as either alignment.

I would never ignore such a request, but I would reject it.

Ryker already addressed my own question wrt to why you felt the need to warn me against Ryker's request.

Oh Ruy you know Ryker can't do that with his vote on Dark Horse =P

Aaaaaaaanyway...



I'm not sure if I should see this as very defensive and jumpy or just another Felipe thingy =S

I don’t feel like you’ve been taking strong stances all game; even the DH vote seemed pretty weak, and in this post there is just pure indecisiveness about Felipe and no attempts to question him or resolve it.

I like Kuz’s posts, Dietz isn’t someone I paid attention to all that much in my catch-up but after reading his post I went back and checked out his posts, especially the ones interactions with Swiss, and along with his safe play, he didn’t willingly take stances; they were only given because of Swiss’ questions to him.

Anyways, I don’t like DH, and I would like to see Deitz’s reaction to Kuz’s post because I think there are legit points that he needs to address there. Felipe has gathered a lot of attention for possibly being scummy; I actually find him to be leaning town, in that he is playing kinda useless like always but he actually developed a read of his own on No Lynch and on Bardull, despite using questionable tactics to do so. However, my main focus right now is,

Vote: Bleck Mang

I didn’t see anyone really question Bleck Mang or find them suspicious, but all game I’ve found them extremely passive and prone to advice dogging rather than actually giving their opinion on something. Of all the players on the DH wagon (Swiss, Ryker, Bleck Mang, and No Lynch), Bleck Mang provided the least reasoning, and their vote was quite casual and I haven’t found their attempts to apply pressure to DH to be genuine. Finally, there is the indecisiveness over Felipe, which bothers me less than their complacence with that indecisiveness; I want to see them question him, put pressure on him or something, but rather they threw out their opinion on him, weak as it was, and then didn’t really follow up on it. Furthermore, I don’t think many people have paid attention to Bleck and therefore the things I’ve pointed out have just slide under the radar while DH and Felipe took center stage.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Kuz what are you thinking wrt Felipe?

Not a priority.

 

[No Lynch]

Kuzi, I'm going to let you do your thing regarding JDietz and me and Zen are going to do our own thing.

Our main concern right now is still DH, even though he's setting himself already making questions like "What happens when I flip town."

 

[No Lynch]

Loving the July wall ninja.

I eat that for breakfast.

brb QT

 

[No Lynch]

July, your post about Bleck Mang was insightful and well-thought out. Both me and Zen appreciated it and like you already.

We're going to be stubborn here, though, and keep our views to ourselves unless we feel strong about something, Zen wanted to play a more secluded game and I wanted to be more pro-active, it's a weird combination that has been working for now.

What do you think about Ryker and his relationship with certain players?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

July, what if I told you that I was already paying close attention to the Bleck Mang slot (hereto be referred to as J)? As for the only part of your post that addressed me, that's cool, but then there's RR. I did indeed cover that question, yet he ignored it. If I'm not mistaken, he posted on two separate occasions after the question. Let's see if he notices this post directed at him hidden in a guise of a mostly unrelated post. If he doesn't pick it out by the time I get back online, I'll spell it out in bright bold letters.

 

[~Bleck Mang~]

Huh what do you mean?

Like, Ryker was on em and DH was at L-2, so if Ruy would have put his vote on em it wouldn't have been, like, a quick lynch ya feel me? I think that was right after he said that; sort of like a hinting to backing off from him doin his thang ya feel me?

I'm surprised. You've been quite analytical this game yet have failed to notice how transparent Ditz is being.

He's being way too cautious. All of his posts have a backdoor attached. He hasn't taken a firm stance on a single thing. When asked who he'd want to lynch toDay, he said leaning Dark Horse but that that feel was diminishing because of the scene Felipe was making (implying that he felt Felipe was scummy/a higher priority), yet fails to even comment on his read on Felipe. He then closes the post by saying that, if he had to guess, Bardull is town but that read in analogous to guessing that the sky was blue. When he's called out by Swiss for posting so safely, he retorts that it's because Swiss is asking him safe questions.

My problem with him isn't because he has a lack of stances, it's that every stance he attempts to give comes with an escape route attached.

I'm actually really digging this post. When I was reading this mofo I had a hard time discerning whether he was noob town or noob scum. I didn't really take into consideration how there's a backseat to EVERYTHING he's saying. Usually when I try to discern noob town is the fact that they're trying, but now I'm seeing all of this through a new perspective. Like, everything is really different when you're hazed, it's like all of this shiz starts to make sense.

And isn't it JDiEtz?

I couldn't really wrap my head around The Wall From Hell, but I'm gonna go off of your little paragraph and hope that's like a summary.

Vote: Bleck Mang

I didn’t see anyone really question Bleck Mang or find them suspicious, but all game I’ve found them extremely passive and prone to advice dogging rather than actually giving their opinion on something. Of all the players on the DH wagon (Swiss, Ryker, Bleck Mang, and No Lynch), Bleck Mang provided the least reasoning, and their vote was quite casual and I haven’t found their attempts to apply pressure to DH to be genuine. Finally, there is the indecisiveness over Felipe, which bothers me less than their complacence with that indecisiveness; I want to see them question him, put pressure on him or something, but rather they threw out their opinion on him, weak as it was, and then didn’t really follow up on it. Furthermore, I don’t think many people have paid attention to Bleck and therefore the things I’ve pointed out have just slide under the radar while DH and Felipe took center stage.

K. Regarding Felipe, I've had a fair amount of past experiences with the young man, and the feelings and vibes have been reciprocated through every experience with him. Ultimately, my mindset with him is that I will never be against his lynch, but I'd rather allow some of my smart town reads to determine the read with em; I even think I remember asking somebody, like, last night if they can help me get a read on em or something like that. He's just... Such a gamble really :/... Anyway, regarding Dark Horse, I actually thought I voted em on like the bottom of page 2. The way he was so defensive of JDietz when No Lynch was all up on em (which would actually make a lot of noobmistake sense if they're scummates), but ultimately I'm kinda just trying to lean a bit back this game ya feel me homie? I'll try and response... In better sense... Tomorrow if you really want more from me but yea.

 

[~Bleck Mang~]

@Ryker I dunno if that post that's on top of mine was alluding to me but assuming it was I saw this and didn't notice it when I was reading up.

You missed the implication that RR is scum.

Or does he know that RR is town? Do I smell a slip?

Nah I was actually just trying to make a lame J joke in the same style as J. If you look at the posts made around that time it was all just me trying to talk like J lmao.

 

[No Lynch]

I get what you mean now. Why do I get the feeling that your last posts were J trying to act like Gord haha.

 

[No Lynch]

Not a priority.

 

[Rockin]

Rockin, anti-town is not the same thing as scummy. Felipe may be playing anti-town, but that's not an indicator of his alignment. You should know better.

I also find it hard to believe that 8 pages of Dark Horse being defensive and overreacting only warrants him being stupid in your eyes. His push definitely has merit. You also say that you don't see what you hope to gain from a DH lynch but I doubt you see many connections from a Felipe lynch considering you're pushing him for not doing anything.

Anti-town is probably not as bad a scummy, but it's pretty damn close. That's pretty much an indicator of some sort as being scummy. I'm pretty sure if Zen, J, Red Ryu, and Soup were doing the exact same thing as Felipe was doing, you'd attack them just as hard as me.

It's really more of a 'dumb or scum' deal with DH. Sure, I probably do remember him playing slightly better (or just the same) as this, but I also saw him being attacked so quickly in the game by like...a quarter of the players for nitpicking. Yes, his votes has motives, but his reasoning is 'eh' to me.

I probably won't get that much connections with a Felipe flip just like a DH flip, but at least I'd be rid of an unhelpful townie. I like to give newbies (unless they're playing really scummy D1), 'dumb or scum', and players like Mentos and Macman more time on D2 to really see their mindset. D1 there's never usually enough evidence to really capture scum IMO, which is why I like to give those type of players more time to become townie.

If DH is lynched before then, eeeeh so be it, but I'm not in support of it atm

What info have you gotten?

Nothing important. Really, it's more about people's opinions on certain matters, as well as reactions.

 

[Dabuz]

One thing im not getting is how DH acting panicky/ defensive makes him scum already. I played with him in Ragnarok mafia, and he started the same way, but he was town.

Swiss, to answer your early game question: I am dabuz, a moderately experienced player. We have not played before and I have played 4 games: 2 in the BBR (1 town 1 scum, lost both games), and 2 Dgames (Majora's mask, town, won. Ragnarok mafia, mafia, won)

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I'm pretty sure if Zen, J, Red Ryu, and Soup were doing the exact same thing as Felipe was doing, you'd attack them just as hard as me.

Hm..... so every player should be treated the same. EE should be treated like Dark Horse? Moriarty should die every game due to his play.

What does hypothetical play from other players have to do with it?

C'mon Rockin.

I like to give newbies (unless they're playing really scummy D1), 'dumb or scum', and players like Mentos and Macman more time on D2 to really see their mindset.

I mean, seriously, you JUST SAID that players should be treated the same and here you say they should be treated differently. A little contradictory, eh? Which is it?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Swiss, to answer your early game question: I am dabuz, a moderately experienced player. We have not played before and I have played 4 games: 2 in the BBR (1 town 1 scum, lost both games), and 2 Dgames (Majora's mask, town, won. Ragnarok mafia, mafia, won)

I was on his scum team. He's not dumb. He's not extremely experienced. He's okay. I'd say above average with average being someone like Gord. I don't mind being held to the standard I tried to hold you to with Sokr.

 

[Rockin]

Hm..... so every player should be treated the same. EE should be treated like Dark Horse? Moriarty should die every game due to his play.

What does hypothetical play from other players have to do with it?

C'mon Rockin.

I probably wasn't clear.

I was saying that, regardless of who they are, they should be treated the same based on their actions and motives. If someone is being unhelpful, whether they're someone uber awesome like Tom, or someone n00bish like bardul (not in the game, but I'm trying to make a point), they should be pressured to questioning or lynched. Many people like to give big and small names a blind eye because of who they are, and that's not good.

I mean, seriously, you JUST SAID that players should be treated the same and here you say they should be treated differently. A little contradictory, eh? Which is it?

yeah, you may want to read that line again.

I like to give newbies (unless they're playing really scummy D1), 'dumb or scum', and players like Mentos and Macman more time on D2 to really see their mindset.

I was pointing out that this is more of a personal preference that I like doing. Meaning, it's not someone HAS to do or that I'm TELLING them. It's....something I like to do. It worked well for me in the past (as it gave them more of a chance to contribute to the game).

I even gave a reason

D1 there's never usually enough evidence to really capture scum IMO, which is why I like to give those type of players more time to become townie.

Please don't nitpick or twist my words around, ryker

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I was saying that, regardless of who they are, they should be treated the same based on their actions and motives. If someone is being unhelpful, whether they're someone uber awesome like Tom, or someone n00bish like bardul (not in the game, but I'm trying to make a point), they should be pressured to questioning or lynched. Many people like to give big and small names a blind eye because of who they are, and that's not good.

I was pointing out that this is more of a personal preference that I like doing. Meaning, it's not someone HAS to do or that I'm TELLING them. It's....something I like to do. It worked well for me in the past (as it gave them more of a chance to contribute to the game).

You are seriously telling me that you aren't contradicting yourself here? Look at what you're saying, seriously. In the SAME POST you quote yourself giving players like Mentos and Macman a pass on being unhelpful because you like to "really see their mindset."

What's the difference here?

Please don't nitpick or twist my words around, ryker

Is that a threat? You wrote the words, not me. I'm simply examining them. Don't leave contradictions lying around if you don't want me to go Phoenix Wright on your ***.

 

[Rockin]

You are seriously telling me that you aren't contradicting yourself here? Look at what you're saying, seriously. In the SAME POST you quote yourself giving players like Mentos and Macman a pass on being unhelpful because you like to "really see their mindset."

What's the difference here?

Who said Macman and Mentos are unhelpful?

Both of them can actually give a good amount of content, and are helpful when they're townie. However, I can never really tell where they stand on D1 (whether it's them not posting much or just me not getting a general read out of them). Therefore, I leave them alive till after D2, because that's when their stances really shine and their motives are more clear.

Is that a threat? You wrote the words, not me. I'm simply examining them. Don't leave contradictions lying around if you don't want me to go Phoenix Wright on your ***.

erm....no, it wasn't a threat.

I was just asking nicely not to do that. o.o;

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Who said Macman and Mentos are unhelpful?

Both of them can actually give a good amount of content, and are helpful when they're townie. However, I can never really tell where they stand on D1 (whether it's them not posting much or just me not getting a general read out of them). Therefore, I leave them alive till after D2, because that's when their stances really shine and their motives are more clear.

Actually, they don't. Mentos spends his Day 1 giving people like you what you want to hear. Airy statements that don't give hard stances. Macman just lurks and lurks and lurks.

Even for a layman who doesn't know ancient metas, you imply that they're a negative until later in the game. Felipe here has given you a solid stance and shows no signs that he won't be continuing to do so, so your reasoning for wanting him to hold up doesn't really seem to pass muster given that you would treat others differently in his situation.

erm....no, it wasn't a threat.

I was just asking nicely not to do that. o.o;

Then what was the point of posting it? Come on Rockin, you should know better than to post something that is obviously a warning to make me back off and then try and play it off as if it wasn't exactly what it was. Stand by your words man.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Interesting that you answered for another player when it was explicitly addressed to someone who, last time I checked, isn't Red Ruy. Why would you do that, exactly? Seeing as you aren't coming out with a Ryker scum read, you should have no reason to limit my interactions. Are you afraid that I'll emerge as obvTown? Ryker with a doc on him is quite literally your worst nightmare in this game.

I'm stopping you from doing something derppy.

I don't want DH at L-1 until everyone has posted more and a fair amount. I'm skeptical of voting shinanigans with a vote blocker around.

Unless you wanna push your own personal adjenda to get your own way over conculting town, but then again that requires team effort, something your bad with where you have in the past quick lynched without consolting town.

I don't care if in both situations scum got lynched, I want to read up on stuff that isn't the first and last page, I don't want you being an idiot about it before I can. No scum read on you, just a precatious.

I welcome a town read if you can show it, make it happen.