Shining Force II Mafia || Game Over! Who lived happily ever after?

[~Bleck Mang~]

I refuse to believe this one post swung it for you.

Damn it all.

 

[~Bleck Mang~]

Well, it is true. You v. me is just the chopping block right now of course you'd be against me.

I actually really dig this in and of itself. Ruy's swing was almost immediate; I can't recall a time where Ruy was in any real way AGAINST Dietz.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I refuse to believe this one post swung it for you.

More than that, not in the state of mind to explain atm.

 

[~Bleck Mang~]

@Bleck Mang: Gorf, I know you don't like me, but J really does. I also happen to know you both have RR as a major scum suspect. Could I convince you to cut your losses and knock off Ryu rather than stalemate the votes? You'll have your chance at me tomorrow if you're really that dead set, Swiss and Ryker are tunneling too hard on me for them not to bring it back up.

J's not here. And no. Unless you can totally derail your wagon to a point where there's no chance of your lynch, I'm stuck like glue.

 

[~Bleck Mang~]

J's not here. So no.*

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

First you said you didn't understand what NL meant when he said Swiss and Ryker were manipulating the game, then you immediately turned around and complained about all the manipulation they've been doing and how you don't like it.

More so why he turned on then and then tried hard to go against them when I never got anything like that from NL before.

Like, then manipulating would be if they were doing what isn't what is in towns best interest, the word is just bad lol.

But like, I hate how they go about being town sometimes, but it works I'm not gonna quote the games they were town and won the game as MvP because their tactics got solid lynches.

Point stands unless NL thinks they are scum, it's not manipulation.

 

[Jdietz43]

@Gorf: And what of Ryu, not important to you anymore?

@Ryu: "Manipulation: exerting shrewd or devious influence especially for one's own advantage". Sounds like manipulation to me.

 

[Jdietz43]

@Gorf: I'm not hoping for a whole lot from your slot as far as my lynch goes, but if you've got a read on RR as scum for both heads of your hydra and only as one head for me it seems like the correct choice for the slot. *shrugs*

 

[~Bleck Mang~]

@Gorf: And what of Ryu, not important to you anymore?

I thought you hated manipulation?

 

[~Bleck Mang~]

@Gorf: I'm not hoping for a whole lot from your slot as far as my lynch goes, but if you've got a read on RR as scum for both heads of your hydra and only as one head for me it seems like the correct choice for the slot. *shrugs*

You're really gung-ho about wanting me to switch -.-...

 

[Jdietz43]

I thought you hated manipulation?

No, I don't like bullying people with death threats, I'm perfectly fine with a reasonable appeal to logic for town's good. It's not like you'll never get another chance to hop on the Dietz wagon if Day 1 is any indication.

You're really gung-ho about wanting me to switch -.-...

It'd be nice :3

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

@Gorf: And what of Ryu, not important to you anymore?

@Ryu: "Manipulation: exerting shrewd or devious influence especially for one's own advantage". Sounds like manipulation to me.

Your not looking at intent.

 

[Jdietz43]

Your not looking at intent.

Lol, well intent for me is "railroading a townie to a lynch for being hesitant playing a difficult role", and for you is "railroading someone who isn't me in a situation where if that doesn't happen I personally get lynched"... sooo you can see how I'm not that hot on their intent.

Even if this wasn't happening to me personally I'd view their intent as possibly scummy if I had no way of knowing for certain that they were innocent (if I were cop etc.). Gaining that much control of the situation is exactly what scum would want to thrive on, so I'd be wary of it until I knew their position. Me being me just gives me the insight to know they're aiming wrong if they're to be town.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

@Ryu: "Manipulation: exerting shrewd or devious influence especially for one's own advantage". Sounds like manipulation to me.

So,... why does manipulation mean scum?

 

[Jdietz43]

So,... why does manipulation mean scum?

Not always, but when done with threats and fear tactics as you and Swiss have accomplished it's certainly anti-town. You're stifling conversation and thought in favor of sheeping and mindlessness which lends itself to decisions being replicated by everyone who doesn't want the lynch-hammer on themselves. Good could come of it if done properly by a townie but the risks of bad decision-making (bad lynches, eventual pressure to self, lack of info for town) far outweigh the rewards to the point it's not a good stance for a townie to deliberately take to such lengths. Me being the lynch target for this manipulation also gives me the added perspective of knowing that's it's gone wrong before everyone else does, making it more likely that you're scum exerting control than town.

 

[Jdietz43]

(hell this is one of the first times you've even directly spoken with me, do you know how crazy that is in a game like this?)

 

[Rockin]

Seriously guys...can't ya like...post all the small ****z in one post? I mean damnit, it gets difficult to encourage others to re-read stuff as things progress. Like damnit...-_-. Actually, why are you guys posting so much each day?

Get laid or something. >_>

Rockin: Oh sweet, I didn't even know you were voting dabuz. You would lynch Ryu as well right?

Nope.

Granted, he's acting more silly then normal, it's not a good enough reason to lynch.

*Sighs* I'm really bad at mafia >.>

Vote: Red Ryu

If you're still gonna do that 'each post would be a different color' thing, I'd avoid dark colors like black. Just saying...

Rockin, will you vote Dietz, for me? I know you love me. If you won't then why?

LIES! Everyone knows your bestest buddies is Swiss D:<

Also, I am heavily considering it....especially with events that happened...

No matter how I look at it, lynching Dietz would benefit a lot of INFO for town AND it'd make them consider other reads as well. It feels like no matter what, town is gonna forever be distracted by JDietz's play and wording no matter what. NL's heavy defending on Jdietz is not making it better ONE bit.

I'm also not in support of lynching Dabuz or Orobro. I only wanted to get rid of them because they were being really unhelpful. Right now, there's too much information that needs to be worked out, so I'm not thinking about lynching them. If we're gonna lynch someone, we should lynch some of the people in question (Red Ryu, Jdietz, Swiss)

July, PLEASE explain to me what we would learn of a Red Ryu lynch over say...a Jdietz lynch?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Not always, but when done with threats and fear tactics as you and Swiss have accomplished it's certainly anti-town.

Really? Despite everyone telling you that it's not the case, you're going to stick to this?

You're stifling conversation and thought in favor of sheeping and mindlessness which lends itself to decisions being replicated by everyone who doesn't want the lynch-hammer on themselves.

Really? Stifling, you say. I believe I've been quite open with who I want to find themselves with a mouthful of buckshot. I believe I've been quite open with correcting people with incorrect assumptions on their reads. The only thing I stifle is wagons started on either my town reads or targets that don't need to be lynched right now.

Nice try though. Next time please cite your sources before making accusations.

Good could come of it if done properly by a townie but the risks of bad decision-making (bad lynches, eventual pressure to self, lack of info for town) far outweigh the rewards to the point it's not a good stance for a townie to deliberately take to such lengths.

Oh, it would be an absolute terror if you were to try or for RR or for Felipe. There's a large number of people who it would be disastrous for them to even attempt. However, it's a good thing for everyone that they don't have the influence or the history to obtain the necessary clout for it to work.

I would appreciate it if the new scum didn't try to insinuate that the way I play the game is not a good stance for a townie to take. Especially with the results to back it.

Me being the lynch target for this manipulation also gives me the added perspective of knowing that's it's gone wrong before everyone else does, making it more likely that you're scum exerting control than town.

Fat chance. How about this? Should you flip town, you can have my lynch. I will vote myself and die. What about that?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Seriously guys...can't ya like...post all the small ****z in one post? I mean damnit, it gets difficult to encourage others to re-read stuff as things progress. Like damnit...-_-. Actually, why are you guys posting so much each day?

Get laid or something. >_>





Nope.

Granted, he's acting more silly then normal, it's not a good enough reason to lynch.



If you're still gonna do that 'each post would be a different color' thing, I'd avoid dark colors like black. Just saying...



LIES! Everyone knows your bestest buddies is Swiss D:<

Also, I am heavily considering it....especially with events that happened...

No matter how I look at it, lynching Dietz would benefit a lot of INFO for town AND it'd make them consider other reads as well. It feels like no matter what, town is gonna forever be distracted by JDietz's play and wording no matter what. NL's heavy defending on Jdietz is not making it better ONE bit.

I'm also not in support of lynching Dabuz or Orobro. I only wanted to get rid of them because they were being really unhelpful. Right now, there's too much information that needs to be worked out, so I'm not thinking about lynching them. If we're gonna lynch someone, we should lynch some of the people in question (Red Ryu, Jdietz, Swiss)

July, PLEASE explain to me what we would learn of a Red Ryu lynch over say...a Jdietz lynch?

That's my boy. I'm going to be V/LA. Promise me you won't vote RR while I'm gone. Feel free to vote Ditz without me.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

(hell this is one of the first times you've even directly spoken with me, do you know how crazy that is in a game like this?)

At this point, I'm mainly looking for opportunities to degrade you based on your play in an attempt to get you mad.

Why should I directly deal with someone I think is scum?

 

[Jdietz43]

Whatever you say then.

*is longest Ryker post of entire game, admits it's only a bid to make someone mad*

 

[July]

Did I just.....agree with Felipe?

IGNORE ME ALL MY READS MUST BE WRONG.

July I will not back down from my Dietz lynch. I will make you choose betwen the two of us. I suggest you choose now and move on rather than have thins conctantly dragging town back to the same points and cases. We'll need new content toMorrow - but if Dietz is not lynched toDay I'll be left with no choice but to derail us until he is lynched.

I know, I know, your persistence an admirable trait. I've been considering the productivity of Dietz's lynch, but RR is so very scummy.

This is pretty grimy.

There is little reason to suggest that Town would do this on N0, they lose connections off voting, if they do hit town they lose power of their majority if they hit town. Even worse you assume it;s more likely to be town when mafia has not only far more reasons to do such but even more likely than town to do it over mafia.

FoS: July

The entire conversation about who voteblocked/roleblocked/silenced you is speculation, and it wasn't a question that I planned to or would spend a lot of time on. Town seems more likely to use a power role without discretion before the game and more likely to target you, but there's no proof of that; that's just my opinion and I don't find it very productive to the discussion toDay.

Orbo is on the table at this time and I'd prefer him over Deitz.

Orbo isn't an option, it's either RR or Dietz.

For me here, it's more so the other posts she has made with it in mind. I'm getting a tunnel feel from it with her pushing hard, not a Circus town kind of way.

The more I read into things she is calling me out on, not posting part 2 not thinking I very well could have irl school problems, which I do atm with exams ,me falling behind with projects, etc. She was very quick to call my britches and hoses meta or even my Walgreens meta over activity even after the fact at this point I've disproved it.

She is very quick to call the voteblock with town intent very quickly before.

She really is giving me a dishonest look at how she is looking into me others at this point.

I am sympathetic to irl problems and schoolwork, I have similar issues, but I gave you time and I asked you when you would be able to provide part II and you gave me a pretty exact answer, and that was after postponing the case to consider Swiss's case on JDeitz. I was holding you to the timetable you yourself imposed. AND I did not call your meta on activity; the meta I used on you was your effort when under pressure v. your meta when you don't have pressure on you and your head is no longer on the chopping block.

Swiss, Ryker, Kuz, July, Bleck: What do you think of having Felipe claim?

Not in favor of this.

(That's a very scummy thing of you to say Ryker, but I'm not that surprised)

My lynch gives more info than Ryu's? I don't think so in the least. All I've been doing is trying to play good mafia the way I know how, Ryu actually knows enough about who you all are to make informed decisions, if anything his reads on flip should be worth much more than mine. Right now you'd be throwing that away on a loose cannon.

Your lynch definitely gives the most information, everyone has an opinion on you (except DH I think) and it resolves the entire anti-Dietz v. pro-Dietz debate, where as opinions on RR aren't as polarized and connections not as straight forward, whereas people are very clear on their opinions on you and those opinions are easily traceable.

@July: I call forth your vast wisdom to help out with the RR case, I don't want my first shot at SWF mafia to be a wasted lynch on me Day 1, and I know you want him rather than me or an inactive.

I understand and clearly you have a rather large group of people who have supported you and very strongly oppose your lynch, so don't be discouraged if your first shot at mafia you die Day 1, it happens regardless of alignment. BUT I don't think your lynch toDay is a "wasted lynch", unlike an Orbo/dabuz lynch, and despite RR being scummier, you lynch would be productive in resolving a lot of conflict and there are many connections to be made.

July, PLEASE explain to me what we would learn of a Red Ryu lynch over say...a Jdietz lynch?

Nothing, I've fully admitted that a JDietz lynch provides more information and connections than RR, and RR provides more information and connections than an inactive lynch. I think RR is scummier and has a higher chance of flipping scum than JDietz, and that's why my vote has been on RR. It's getting to a point where this issue really needs resolved though, toMorrow is going to be brutal if we have to have this JDietz showdown all over again -_-

Unvote

Rockin, what do you think are the chances of JDietz flipping scum? If any lynch were on the table and the JDietz drama wasn't taking up most everyone's attention, who would your preferred lynch be toDay?

 

[Jdietz43]

I'm also not in support of lynching Dabuz or Orobro. I only wanted to get rid of them because they were being really unhelpful. Right now, there's too much information that needs to be worked out, so I'm not thinking about lynching them. If we're gonna lynch someone, we should lynch some of the people in question (Red Ryu, Jdietz, Swiss)

July, PLEASE explain to me what we would learn of a Red Ryu lynch over say...a Jdietz lynch?

I'm also hoping for a fantastic July post, I've been informed I don't have the clout and I don't doubt that lol

My view of it from the outside perspective is that RR poses a larger threat since he knows who everyone in the SWF mafia circles are and how they play. If he flips scum we get some logical information and possible connections between him and Swiss, Orbo, Dabuz etc. who have all shown interest or strong disinterest in his lynch in various facets and some already find scummy in some description. If we lynch me and I flip scum we get a cacophony of confusion and some loose suspicion on NL and Kuz simply because they've been the ones picking up my pieces and not much else since everyone's reads on me have been in a fairly constant flux. RR has had some pretty solid condemners and only one or two people who seemed willing to support him as non-scum and so would leave more direct links. People are voting me because it seems easy to get rid of the player with the most schizim'd and foggy opinions from other players but in reality I don't think that will actually help anyone get their acts straight after I'm dead.

There's also the whole issue of who's actually a threat as scum if kept alive, and as awesome as I like to think myself it's def. Ryu in this scenario since he's been playing much longer than me. I'm not even sure if I'd actually be helpful on a scum team tbh after how much confusion just being me lead town to

Also I'm your character's lover, I like to think that counts for something lol :3


Beyond that: I'd def. defer to July, those are just my base opinions on the matter

 

[Jdietz43]

Nvm she ninja'd me lol

 

[Jdietz43]

That post was decidedly unfantastic from my perspective XD

I'm not sure who's left now... I guess I'll have to look at the vote count again

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

For the record, tomorrow will once again be the same people on the same argument without a Ditz flip to steer the cop and doc tonight. Really, what Ditz flip is going to stop RR from being looked at tomorrow.

 

[Jdietz43]

Ok yeah we can still do this, July don't vote against me just yet if you really believe Ryu is scum and worth killing first, I have an even bet Kuz will join the Ryu wagon over mine and we'll be left at 5 a piece. And if Rockin goes to the RR camp it's still stalemated without DH.

Then talk to Bleck, specifically J, I think there's a very very good chance when he comes back from V/LA he'd be entirely willing to hop on the RR wagon if only because both him and Gorf read him scummy and it's the only one they agree on.

 

[Jdietz43]

For the record, tomorrow will once again be the same people on the same argument without a Ditz flip to steer the cop and doc tonight. Really, what Ditz flip is going to stop RR from being looked at tomorrow.

Alternatively we could lynch RR and put a tracker on me and resolve the issue entirely without the Doc or Cop even being bothered.

 

[Jdietz43]

(let the records show the dignified sir did not go down quietly)

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Seriously?

Last ditch effort here. Why the HELL would a tracker settle this issue?

 

[Jdietz43]

Aren't a lot of people mostly concerned I'm scum because of the fact I'm Miller? That's the only way I can think of to prove I am instead of just normal scum since cop returns guilty on Miller. Miller doesn't go anywhere.

 

[July]

I'm also hoping for a fantastic July post, I've been informed I don't have the clout and I don't doubt that lol

My view of it from the outside perspective is that RR poses a larger threat since he knows who everyone in the SWF mafia circles are and how they play. If he flips scum we get some logical information and possible connections between him and Swiss, Orbo, Dabuz etc. who have all shown interest or strong disinterest in his lynch in various facets and some already find scummy in some description. If we lynch me and I flip scum we get a cacophony of confusion and some loose suspicion on NL and Kuz simply because they've been the ones picking up my pieces and not much else since everyone's reads on me have been in a fairly constant flux. RR has had some pretty solid condemners and only one or two people who seemed willing to support him as non-scum and so would leave more direct links. People are voting me because it seems easy to get rid of the player with the most schizim'd and foggy opinions from other players but in reality I don't think that will actually help anyone get their acts straight after I'm dead.

There's also the whole issue of who's actually a threat as scum if kept alive, and as awesome as I like to think myself it's def. Ryu in this scenario since he's been playing much longer than me. I'm not even sure if I'd actually be helpful on a scum team tbh after how much confusion just being me lead town to

Also I'm your character's lover, I like to think that counts for something lol :3


Beyond that: I'd def. defer to July, those are just my base opinions on the matter

The issue right now is making sure this game doesn't end up getting stalemated by the issues over your slot, which has already started to happen toDay and is undoubtedly going to be an issue toMorrow with any lynch but yours. Your slot has become the center of attention for almost everyone and I've been in Swiss's position where you will not be satisfied until your main scum pick slips, and as much as I want an RR lynch, the chances we are STILL stalemated toMorrow is really high whether RR flips scum or town.

Clearly you shouldn't defer to my opinion, I have much different views on what connections and information we get from your lynch, especially because I think the connections to your slot are much more genuine and less convoluted than connections to RR.

 

[Jdietz43]

Yeah lol, I wouldn't be deferring to your opinion in this case after your posted that.

Well I'm going to bed, and if you're unsure then I won't get my hopes up too high of waking up tomorrow to find my mafia player counterpart still among the living. We'll see if NL has any choice bits of information or opinion on the matter, but clearly everything I say is like poison lol

 

[Jdietz43]

I tried though and still managed to have a little fun on the side, so if this is the end of the road then I guess there will be other mafia games to try my hand at and hopefully I haven't screwed this one up too bad to where town is still clueless after I'm gone

Gnight

 

[Kataefi]

A deadline is set for Midnight 03/05/11 EST. This is in approximately 2 days time.

With 13 Alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Red Ryu has been Silenced, and any votes they cast will not be counted for the remainder of the Day!

Voting (11):
Jdietz43 (5): Swiss, Ryker, Bleck Mang, Orboknown, felipe_9595
Red Ryu (3): Jdietz43, dabuz, No Lynch
dabuz (1): Rockin,
Orboknown (1): th3kuzinator
Swiss (1): Dark Horse


Not Voting (2):
Red Ryu
July

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Hallelujah

My internet's back up

 

[Swiss]

Praise the Lord

 

[~Bleck Mang~]

Alternatively we could lynch RR and put a tracker on me and resolve the issue entirely without the Doc or Cop even being bothered.

If this isn't what turns EVERYBODY around I don't know what is >_>...

 

[~Bleck Mang~]

Alternatively we could lynch RR and put a tracker on me and resolve the issue entirely without the Doc or Cop even being bothered.

In fact...

@NL @Kuz give. Me. The. Town. Intent. On. Posts. Like. This.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Jay, when I played scum in walgreens I had J and Asdioh do night actions and kills for me when I fake CC'd miller on N1.

I only did actions on N2 when town outed all but one PR.

Putting a tracker on you wouldn't cleafr you.