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Sheikah Survival Guide: A Sheik Match-up Thread

BRoomer
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he can dair you before you can do anything with dthrow >: ( As ankoku mentioned your opponent is out of hit stun before you are done with the whole throw animation.

fthrow is neat like every other character it put him in that "should I air dodge and get hit later or not air dodge and get hit now" situation. At low percents If I get a grab I go for a double hit dacus.
 

-Mars-

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I fthrow MK if i'm not in a position to DACUS him. Then I run into a shield and react to what he does.
 

Judo777

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eh i dont do the GR DACUS unless it can kill him cause IMO one of the only things we have on MK is we can kill him so much earlier if we use ftilt properly or rather use upsmash properly. I generally fthrow im cause if u guess they are gonna dair u can shield and punish.
 

-Mars-

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I get the 30% whenever I do land a grab since it's hard to grab MK at kill percentages anyways since they are naturally more cautious. I've rarely had decay be a problem when i've grabbed a MK at KO percentages.
 

Tristan_win

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So the reason why I brought this up is because I think that maybe the dash attack can combo better and set meta knight up better then any of Sheik throws. From the little testing I've done it looks meta knight isn't knock away as far so it's easier to follow up, however from that same testing I notice if you do it at too early of a percentage you will get punished with a dair.

Once a mid ground is found we can either start PS his dairs out of dash attack only to follow up or maybe even combo.

oh on a side note I've once killed a meta knight with a grab release into dash attack....I think he was around 150%, no idea how well he DI it most likely little if any.
 

Zankoku

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I like GR into dash attack at higher percents because the higher knockback growth gives me more breathing room after the hit and more time to pressure him on the way down. And it can kill Meta Knight players who are DIing down and to the side for some unknown reason. : j
 

BRoomer
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A lot of people DI like that because they expect a dacus. people can react fast enough to my dash attack to DI it correctly.

dash attack doesn't really ever set up better than fthrow but it does do more guaranteed damage.
 

Tristan_win

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A lot of people DI like that because they expect a dacus. people can react fast enough to my dash attack to DI it correctly.

dash attack doesn't really ever set up better than fthrow but it does do more guaranteed damage.
I'm honestly not sure about that, since the game just ended I'll go test on meta knight ^_^. GOD I love having my wii hacked. Stand ready for edits :3

~

Anyways new subject, I feel Sheik OoS options are very comparable if not better when her opponent are behind her to her front. Reason, Bair can and will hit extremely low to the ground right behind Sheik, does 11% (that's more then a grab + 1 pummel by 1%) and most importantly the lower leg hit box of the Bair hit's the opponent in a very horizontal angle. There's also the fact that doing a full hop bair is safe on shield from grabs although some OoS options if done quickly enough may be able to punish it constantly:dizzy:

Anyways because of all I've just said I've been thinking about how to get my opponents to miss space their attacks, hit my shield only to get bair. The first idea comes to mind is well, that.

Sheik dash is amazing, it's long and quick, however because of it's length it can actually make it harder for you to get yourself in due to the fact you can't cancel a dash with a shield(I'm not talking about a run which you can cancel.) Boost walking on the other hand you can immediately go into Shield whenever you want.

Before Savior retired he told me that boost walking was comparable in speed to Sheik dash, once I'm done with this post test the combo potential of dash attack compared to grab I plan to test this next but if anything I bet the speed is very close.
 

iLight

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that new tech, at least the one where he cancelled the dash attack after doing most of the animation for it, I doubt that sheik is capable of doing that considering she can't do that type of dacus in the first place. However the one where he is spot dodge>u-smash>spot dodge> dacus type thing might be interesting idk how that stuff even works...
 

BRoomer
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bair is really good OOS. it one of her faster options (better than tilts and jab, shield, dash attack) it's pretty good for people behind you sometimes but not all the time. it depends on their spacing and stuff. it won't always be safe, just gotta use your eyes. and learn from experience. Full hopped won't hit some characters when it would others, similar to nair which won't hit a grounded MK when full hopped.

It's important to learn jabs OOS, you can punish a lot with that when a grab or even bair/nair wouldn't reach other wise, both in front and behind you. that or you can just get better damage/set ups. when you consider you can jab directly into dsmash or nair. jab becomes an amazing OOS punisher at high percents.

Aerials OOS should be common sense for us at this point, even our tilits and jabs and dash attack to a lesser degree. just gotta learn when and where you can do this stuff, experience is important for these things.
 

spurtz

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Help! I'm getting humiliated by Mario! I get grabbed a lot and am forced to do a laggy dair to counter him!!!

Also, I'm playing against a darn good and aggressive mario, so I get damage a lot, so the game is pretty 50/50.

Except that everytime when he is at high percentage, he became so good that he is able to catch up and do me damage, making the game even and eventually me losing for most of the time!!! He kept doing the fire thingy to disturb my attacks!!
 

spurtz

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I have mastered Sheik's dair, ask me what you want to know.
Actually I wanted to avoid dair, because it is laggy, but there is no way to approach with the Mario beast I'm playing with, he seems to predict all my moves O.o whenever he is attempting fireballs and dash attacks, I could occasionally dair with success, otherwise, he'll Usmash it!

Whenever I dash attack, chances are I get grabbed, whenever he charges and I attempt to smash it, I get fire balled. My needle storm get reflected... ALL MY MOVES ARE COUNTERED!!!

ftilt isn't very effective against him, at some point he is able to hit me back. I just have no way of being sure of winning. The only times I get occasionally lucky is whenever I edgeguard, I occasionally succeed causing him to lose a stack, but that too isn't easy, at times it became the other way around.

This is embarrassing, able to defeat a metaknight, but losing to a mario!!!
 

Tristan_win

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Well I just did a little testing and it seems that it takes 16-17 frames for Sheik dacus hit box to first come out.

So in comparison in that range Sheik options are in order of speed

Dash attack 6 frames (takes 1 frame to dash)

Dash grab 8 frames.

Needle storm 14 frames

Roughly 2 steps into jab1 15 frames

Dacus 16-17 frames

Chain 29 frames

To see OoS options just +7 to these numbers and check out other characters disadvantage frames.
 

stealth3654

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Roxy said:
It will need around three unbiased, relatively skilled Sheik players, and about two players from the opposing character.

It would start off with the three people (i guess you can consider them the panel). Discuss the pros and cons of our character, by now these should all be very well developed. We will also look at the pros and cons of the opposing character.

When all of this is finished, the discussion will go public, where all the pros and cons are listed, how they affect the matchup, stages, etc. Public people will share their opinion and a general summary of the matchup can be made from here.

The panel will then decide on a match-up rank (ex. 60:40).

Here's where the two players from an opposing character come in. They will re-read the summary, explain some pros about their character that we might have left out, so on and so forth. They will also make a summary of how the opposing character should and most likely will be playing this match-up. Then with those five people we will reach a general agreement on a match-up ranking, this match-up and summary can go on both boards.

I sent this to you because you are running the match-up board, I'm trying to see if we can implement this in boards to make match-up threads get generally finished.

I am not a part of your backroom, however I'm going through all of the character discussion boards to get something set up that will expand the brawl metagame. If you could discuss this amongst your backroom and see if this plan could be implemented i would take great compliment by it.

-Roxy
What are everyone's thoughts?
 

Judo777

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I think we should discuss the kirby MU cause i think its waaaaaaayyyyy worse than what we have it listed as. I think its sheiks 3rd hardest MU behind IC's and pika
 

#HBC | Scary

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I'm down for re-discussions. I'd say <3 should lead them since I think he's the most knowledgeable and I'll have him call me to remind me to participate because I just fail at being on the internet sometimes.

Seriously, James! Lead this and buzz me. We'll get this done!
 

Judo777

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ill try and help too i think i have come along way since last we were discussing.
 

Zankoku

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I'll try to set things up better if you guys want to do discussions in a serious manner. This thread has really outgrown itself anyway.
 
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