Sheik, why she will return

[Shuma]

@ Blerb.

Di you even read his post, It's NOT the same Zelda, is like if your grand son has the same name, he is not you right?

 

[Circus]

@ Circus

Your posts are tedious to read, as there are so many irrelevancies with your quotes.

ex.


Not only did you use the lamest response to that, and sounded like an idiot, you have also filled up space that doesn't even need to be there. That was the point.

I'm having trouble understanding what I did to deserve being insulted. Did I say something offensive in one of my posts? The "How Now, Brown Cow" thing was just a light-hearted response; It wasn't meant to be any type of dramatic counter. I think you're taking me a little too seriously. I'm not adamantly trying to bash on Sheik here, just having friendly discussion (or, what I was treating as friendly discussion). I admit that my first post was a little rude, but that's because I was a little angry that another Sheik thread cropped up, without even offering a new point to make on the issue. Had the topic starter presented a point I hadn't read before, I probably wouldn't have been so short with him. My bad for kind of losing my cool.

Moreover, you bring up the example that goombas have a fan-base. This makes little sense, because everyone knows Shiek is a more significant character than a Goomba is.

Arguably, yes. But my point was simply that having a fanbase is not a good enough reason for a character to be in, as all characters have a fanbase to some extent. As you said, significance to a series also plays an important part. It is my opinion that Sheik is still lacking in that category though.

In OoT, Shiek does play an important role - I'm not going to argue with you on this becasue I can sense it'll be like talking to a wall.

There is no argument to be had; I know Sheik is important to Ocarina of Time. But just Ocarina of Time. This goes back to how Twilight Princess Zelda transforming into an Ocarina Of Time character bothers me. I'm just expressing a personal opinion.

OoT, is THE MOST important Zelda game - period.

That's subjective. And irrelevant. I never said it wasn't the most important game, and that has nothing to do with the TP Zelda becoming OoT Sheik issue. What's in question here is not OoT's importance, nor even Sheik's importance. My only issue is continuity.

Again, don't get wrapped up over a minor continuity 'error', it's all in good fun.

I'm afraid I can't let it go quite that easily. The continuity problem is just something I guess I'm weird about. Like I said, I'll eventually get over this Sheik thing if it ends up happening again in Brawl, but it still won't be my ideal outcome. I was just trying to explain why that is.

Also, Shuma, thanks for defending me. I appreciate it.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Throwing down insults is the worst debate tactic ever. Insults not only add nothing to a discussion, they forfeit almost any chance of anyone listening and/or changing their stance.

 

[Shuma]

Shuma is always there to defend no-idiots.

 

[Drake3]

Someone has to tell me how Sheik was important to Ocarina while also realising that alot of Zelda characters are important to their specific game. I only remember Sheik doing one fundamentally important thing and that was turning into Zelda.

 

[Cetellic]

There is no proof that the Zelda in TP CANT transform into Sheik. Even if she can't, the inclusion of Sheik in Brawl would just be a nod to the OoT's Zelda. Why should they remove Sheik from the game just so people can say it's the Zelda from TP? Why limit characters just for nostalgia?

Sure Circus's point of view offers an opposition to mine, it will feel weird to have Sheik be in Brawl from his standpoint... but from mine Sheik is just another character to understand the advantages and disadvantages of so I can win. Sheik also is one of the most challenging characters I've ever faced so I wouldn't approve of removing her from the game, especially since the competition will heat up with online play.

Either way, Brawl will be Brawl, and we'll learn to accept our likes and dislikes one way or the other.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Someone has to tell me how Sheik was important to Ocarina while also realising that alot of Zelda characters are important to their specific game. I only remember Sheik doing one fundamentally important thing and that was turning into Zelda.

Of course a lot of Zelda characters are important to their own games, and to the same level, Sheik serves as Link's guide (and music teacher) through the second half of the game. But you know what, you already what sets Sheik apart, she is Zelda. Which means that the other roles that this particular Zelda performed during the game were also Sheik's roles, furthermore she is part of the Triforce 3, so it becomes a question of whether or not to place references to this particular Zelda in placing her alter-ego in the game.

Truthfully, there is another alter-ego of Zelda which therefore fills the same specifications

Spoiler

Tetra

, however, I would argue that OoT is more important to the series then

Spoiler

Wind Waker

.

 

[Eagle]

Maybe the Zelda family has been passing down from generation to generation the secrets of their family. Maybe the Zelda family are Princesses at day but crime fighting ninjas at night. Wow that sounds hot. Anyways, it's not like we know everything about Zelda she could be a newbie swordsman and the sword was just to intimidate Zant.

Also, I believe someone posted earlier about Zelda hasn't been seen with her Rapier and it would be pretty dumb if she pulls it out of nothing, but what about Peach? She can pull out a Tennis Racket, Golf Club and Frying Pan.

My point is, I would not be bothered if I found out Brawl's Zelda can transform into Sheik.

Edit:

Hmm... now I know why people can sometimes mistake Sheik for a male, just look at her.
She looks like she has pecks.

 

[dynamic_entry]

Hmm... now I know why people can sometimes mistake Sheik for a male, just look at her.
She looks like she has pecks.

she lacks a package..........

 

[xianfeng]

As long as it isn't that ****ing **** wad sheik el halalalie or whatever his name was.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

They made the Melee Shiek more feminine than the official artwork for Oot BTW...


So people could tell it was a female...

 

[adumbrodeus]

Maybe the Zelda family has been passing down from generation to generation the secrets of their family. Maybe the Zelda family are Princesses at day but crime fighting ninjas at night. Wow that sounds hot. Anyways, it's not like we know everything about Zelda she could be a newbie swordsman and the sword was just to intimidate Zant.

Ehhhh, I never critiqued that scene, if anyone knows where I can find a video I should be able to tell based on her fighting stance. Inexperienced swordsmen and experienced ones can easily be told apart based on their stance when they hold their weapon.

 

[Drake3]

I'm not sure it'll work like that, but the fact that she has a sword when preparing to do battle would make you assume she knew how to use it in the first place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_5yspPbUH4

There's probably a better video but it was the quickest one I could find.

And Windwaker is more recent than OoT, so Sakurai might use that in this case.

 

[Kooichi]

I think the only reason people don't want Sheik is because they got pwned hard by her countless times XD They are just using the TP Zelda for an excuse =P

Sheik has a very unqiue moveset and is used by many players so she should return.

 

[Shadowbolt]

I think the only reason people don't want Sheik is because they got pwned hard by her countless times XD They are just using the TP Zelda for an excuse =P

Sheik has a very unqiue moveset and is used by many players so she should return.

So... let me get this straight - if someone is against Sheik returning, it's automatically about them not wanting to have to fight her? Yet, you go on to say that she should return because people DO play as her? Hypocritical much?

Besides, if Sheik returns, she'll likely be nerfed anyway, so what would be the point?




I honestly shocked to see how few people give a crap about continuity.

Until I see further proof, I still believe that ZSS is Sheik's spiritual successor.

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

Interesting point - TP Zelda has a the Eye of Truth etched into her cloak.

SHIEKAH!?!?

Another thing, stop saying TP Zelda's hair is actually the same as Brawl's. If you AREN'T ****ing blind yourself, you'd notice that TP Zelda's hair really is colored slightly different than the one in Brawl. They truly aren't the exact same. I'm surprised some of you **** heads tried to pass that one off as viable.

Last point:

The Japanies don't usually draw boobs huge (or at all) in a lot of their art, hence why Shiek may not have boobs.

BTW Shadowbolt, you don't seem to understand what being a hyppocrite is.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I'm not sure it'll work like that, but the fact that she has a sword when preparing to do battle would make you assume she knew how to use it in the first place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_5yspPbUH4

There's probably a better video but it was the quickest one I could find.

And Windwaker is more recent than OoT, so Sakurai might use that in this case.

No, it works like that, any bum can pick up a sword, but a martial artist can tell when somebody else is a martial artist based on their combat stance, for that reason, if possible, game designers design characters whose stances look like that of skilled fighters when fighting (or right before a fight) and those who aren't skilled fighters are designed with the opposite in mind. Granted, it may not be the optimum stance, but it's obviously a fighter's stance.


And yeah, critiquing her stance, Zelda definitely knows her way around that sword in this game, it wasn't just for show, or at least she didn't intend it that way. It's a bit difficult to tell because the lower body is hidden by that dress, but her hand and shoulder position tell the story, granted, I would suggest a dominant-side forward stance as opposed to her front-forward stance, and a lower to the ground, but her stance is balanced with her off arm approximately mirroring the dominant arm so as to balance it upon striking. Her most probable strike from that position would be pivoting on her off leg into a dominant to off side horizontal or diagonal strike, more power then if starting dominant side forward, but slower and less defensive.

So yeah, the game creators were trying to express that Zelda does know her way around swords.

 

[Puffs]

Interesting point - TP Zelda has a the Eye of Truth etched into her cloak.

SHIEKAH!?!?

Another thing, stop saying TP Zelda's hair is actually the same as Brawl's. If you AREN'T ****ing blind yourself, you'd notice that TP Zelda's hair really is colored slightly different than the one in Brawl. They truly aren't the exact same. I'm surprised some of you **** heads tried to pass that one off as viable.

Last point:

The Japanies don't usually draw boobs huge (or at all) in a lot of their art, hence why Shiek may not have boobs.

BTW Shadowbolt, you don't seem to understand what being a hyppocrite is.

Sheik never had breasts in any of her game models or official artwork.... It is a very convincing disguise. Hell, I never saw it coming my first time through OoT.

 

[Withouthatred]

Based on the videos I've seen, I think zamus will have sheiks A moveset.
Notice how they haven't shown the down b for samus or zamus yet.....

 

[Shuma]

Down B Z. Samus attack turns her into Sheik and viceversa it all makes sense.

 

[dynamic_entry]

Sheik never had breasts in any of her game models or official artwork.... It is a very convincing disguise. Hell, I never saw it coming my first time through OoT.

if sheik wants to be even more convincing in her disguise, she should, in the wise words of Mr T, "Get some nuts!"

 

[skyblue]

I think Sheik should return either as a part of Zelda or a seperate character. Her character art is too unique to give up. Besides, she's the only ninja-esque character that has a chance at getting in Brawl IMO. If she didn't get in, too many people would whine about her exclusion. And to the people who say Sheik can't make it in because Zelda is based on her TP model: Zelda's moveset isn't based on her TP appearance. Besides, her special moves weren't revealed yet...that's more than just mere coincidence.

So I say, let her in (not that I would use her--she's just a neat character).

 

[Black/Light]

Based on the videos I've seen, I think zamus will have sheiks A moveset.
Notice how they haven't shown the down b for samus or zamus yet.....

Zamus teloports for her down b. . . much like how Shiek does for her up B from what I hear.

Might as well post this here. . .

ME (^_^) I said it before and I will say it again.

TP Zelda transforming into a TP looking Shiek makes about as much sense as TP Zelda transforming into a TP looking Tetra.
At the end of the day she is still transforming into a character from a completely different time-line who she never actually transformed into.

"but Mario uses fludd". Well mario is mario is mario. Theres only one Mario in the whole wide Mario series same as there being one Fox/ Samus/ Falcon in there respective series. Makes sense for mario/ fox/ samus/ cf to be able to use anything from anyone of their games.

"Well, Zelda reps ALL Zelda's in loZ". Than why on earth would she transform into this character? It's like saying " Zelda reps ALL Zeldas from the LoZ series . . .but OoT is the only one they could dare use to base her moves off of! Thats why the one transformation of hers should be Sheik even tho Sheik played a small role in one game compared to Tetra who has had important roles in 2 games!".

Lets apply this to Link. . . .would it make sense for Link to slap on the oni mask and transform into FD Link? What about becoming a kick as* bunny rabbit? Really. . .

"She is still using OoT item moves". Gifts from/ Connections to the goddesses is one thing all Zelda's share
Those things came from the gods so they are constants to the LoZ series seeing as the Gods are like Ganon to the series. . . .as in, the few things that stay the same and are never "reborn/ replaced/ pasted on to".

Thats my take on it. As fare as I can tell Sheik is like Ness. . . might be popular and been in smash with a unique move-set but is no longer relavent to the series they came from.

 

[Teeb147]

I dont understand why so many people think Sheik wont be in. The fanbase is there, and Sheik doesnt have to be a transformation anymore, so dude, sheik's in.

 

[EPX2]

An interesting observation someone made several months ago that I completely forgot about...

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters

Check out the profiles of the veterans. Aside from Mario, Link, and Fox, none of them have had their special moves updated. Now what do Mario, Link, and Fox have in common? They've had certain attributes of at least one of their special moves altered. Mario's Down + B has been changed, a few of Link's moves have been updated to match Twilight Princess, and Fox's weaponry has been aesthetically updated. Someone suggested that this may be a bit more than a coincidence - that Sakurai is intentionally refraining from updating the rest of the veterans because he doesn't see the point in doing so since not much has changed about their moves. If this is true, this could possibly mean that Zelda's moveset hasn't changed at all - which would make sense, seeing as how she supposedly was using her Melee special moves.

Just a thought for those who think that the lack of an update for Zelda's special moves may be due to an exclusion of Sheik.

 

[vesperview]

When Sakurai leaves things hanging on for too long, it's usually never good news.

 

[Superninjabreadman]

Its sorta like Ganondorf. he couldent use falcon punch in OoT.. they gave it to him in melee.

They gave Zelda sheik because she/he/it/potatoe was in OoT. we all know that Ganondorf is getting a TP moveset. so Zelda's should be updated a little too. NO SEHIK.

 

[silver777]

Sheik is too minor to be a playable character.

No Sheik.

 

[Mini Mic]

Sheik is too minor to be a playable character.

No Sheik.

Blasphemy! She is still more relevant today than the Ice Climbers.

 

[•Col•]

Its sorta like Ganondorf. he couldent use falcon punch in OoT.. they gave it to him in melee.

They gave Zelda sheik because she/he/it/potatoe was in OoT. we all know that Ganondorf is getting a TP moveset. so Zelda's should be updated a little too. NO SEHIK.

We know Ganondorf is getting a TP moveset? No. Do we know that Ganondorf is going to be a playable character? No.

Your statement is invalid.

 

[Hydde]

Sheik will be back, and she will be togetehr with zelda, like in Melee.
Yes, there is a difference in zelda. Her model is from TP, but she still posseses the ocarina moveset. The excuse of her being not the same "soul" is not valid... because we all know that developers use movements from all the games the character has appeared to make their moveset.
The prime examplñe is Mario. He have Fluud, and the Cape and some moves from mario 64. That is 3 characters in one!. So we easily can see a TP Zelda transforming into sheik, even when it doesnt make sense.

I hate sheik above everything, but hopefully she will be back with a less broken moveset.

 

[EPX2]

Sheik is too minor to be a playable character.

No Sheik.

If that were true, she wouldn't have been playable in Melee.

 

[Iris]

OoT took precedence at the time. Now though, the game's 10 years old. Sheik isn't retro or a recurring theme for Zelda, so there's absolutely no guarantee she'll be in. Sure Zelda could do it in Melee, but they can alter her just like Mario. A new move to depict current Zelda and placing the move somewhere else, or rather to some one else.

Sheik is under wraps (ha!) because Sakurai isn't ready to confirm whether or not she's in. Truth be told though, there's more reason to keep it secret because Sheik's out than there is because she's in.

 

[InvincibleAgent]

Just a thought, but doesn't Zelda here look like she's in a sword-wielding pose? Maybe Sakurai is tricking us, and Zelda's totally different now, because she uses a sword, and gave us these misleading pics without a sword so we would speculate about Sheik...

 

[EPX2]

OoT took precedence at the time. Now though, the game's 10 years old. Sheik isn't retro or a recurring theme for Zelda, so there's absolutely no guarantee she'll be in. Sure Zelda could do it in Melee, but they can alter her just like Mario. A new move to depict current Zelda and placing the move somewhere else, or rather to some one else.

I'm aware of that - obviously, Sakurai felt that Sheik had some significance, though, if he was willing to include her in Melee as a non-clone. Whether she's currently relevant to the Zelda series as a whole is an altogether separate issue; to simply say, "Sheik's too minor to be included" is pretty silly seeing as how Sakurai obviously didn't share the same sentiments during the development of Melee.

Just a thought, but doesn't Zelda here look like she's in a sword-wielding pose? Maybe Sakurai is tricking us, and Zelda's totally different now, because she uses a sword, and gave us these misleading pics without a sword so we would speculate about Sheik...

Umm... chances are that you're looking way too deeply into a very simple screenshot.

 

[Alex Tcp]

Tell that to Link. Have you seen his moveset for Brawl? ALL updated to work with his TP iteration. They didn't have to update his boomerang to the Gale Boomerang or make his bombs looks different. But they did.

The difference is, Zelda has actually been given a design from a specific game, where as Pit's and IC's outfits are essentially the same as always—just better looking. It's not at all the same scenario.

EDIT: ****. I was hoping someone would've posted by now. O_<

Twilight Princess Zelda is Just a better looking Zelda Model with brown hair.

Same with Link's, new stuff besides the boomerang which they improved, he just has better looking stuff

 

[Iris]

You're wrong. There's absolutely no going around it, Zelda is in TP style, not updated Super Smash Bros style. Mario's overalls look nowhere near as detailed or realistic in either Galaxy or Sunshine, but they were updated for Super Smash Bros Brawl because they looked more or less the same in Melee. If they were simply updating Zelda, she'd still be in a pink dress with pink heels and white stockings that fly through her dress. If they were styling Zelda without a particular game in mind, she would look the same as in Melee, only more detailed. Obviously they weren't though and took the design right from TP because that's what this Zelda is based off of, just like Link and his moves are.

I'm not saying everything is being revamped with TP in mind, but it's definitely the theme for Link's attacks and appearance as well as Zelda's appearance. It's not only entirely possible, but highly likely that at least one of Zelda's moves are going to be TP themed. Rather than it being one or two of the Goddess spells, making the rest out of place, it's likely going to be the one that wouldn't make sense with the model anyways.

 

[W.Jr]

why no sheik, noooooooooooooo

 

[luckycharmstrixme12]

Well my theory is this:
Zelda wasnt playable at for E for All
I think that is maybe because they didnt want to give away yet that she could still be sheik.

 

[blueriku]

there are so many of these threads out on these boards and no matter what every single one of these threads goes in circles, we get now where, why ? because on one knows it is that only sakurai and his team knows. so until we do get information about zelda and sheik via update or a different form of this knowledge. we will continue to go in circles, however i am getting a strange feeling that sakurai is running out of updates.

we have not been updated with a new character or vet for over a month and he also has been updating with things we obviously already know like meta knights moves or charge special moves and more, maybe sakurai wants to give the info an official spot on the dojo, but its odd since most of this info was only presented for each day of the week possibly and not clumped together maybe sakurai is saviong the best for last..... just maybe.... oh well i guess im just thinking to much in to it.