• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Sheik Video & Video Critique Thread

Orion*

Smash Researcher
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
4,503
Location
Dexters Laboratory
I think Ankoku said earlier that Jab 1 only follows into Jab 2, and that's what I was saying, you can always Jab/Grab instead of down smash to punish things. Jab Cancel after 2->Grab/Ftilt/Anything? Not sure if guaranteed, but it works a hell of a lot of the time. I try to steer away from using Dsmash to punish mistakes at lower percents, to keep it fresh to punish mistakes at higher percents.
why add the jab into the equation though LOL
just grab
with SDI nothing seems to really work but knowing what advantage I have to do mixups would be cool.

Another thing that's useful that you should become fluid with is pivot needles, like dashing in one way then just turning and throwing needles. It's extremely quick and catches most people trying to chase you across the stage. It also just is like a spacer, it makes people think twice about chasing you, especially if you just dash in one way and charge needles in their direction, the fear of being hit by it will probably make them stop chasing. Don't think anyone wants to eat 15%~ for nothing
i thought this was like standard runaway sheik :p
i think it's funny because in a bunch of the vids i watch you play in you have a habit of running away and jumping to charge like 1-2 needles or something. when doing this seems much safer. jumping forces you to land, so it's like from a character that imo, needs to played even more particularly safe/solid than most in this game to be successful for many reason it seems awkward to do that.

a lot of times especially vs snake you just seemed to get into situations where you should be dash attacked for that ish, or super awkward spacing jump/djumping over him.

god what i would do for needles to not have landing lag fml someone hack this ish plz
 

Zankoku

Never Knows Best
Administrator
BRoomer
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
22,906
Location
Milpitas, CA
NNID
SSBM_PLAYER
If you land while charging needles I believe you have no landing lag, but there's something like a 7-frame duration on canceling the charge into anything, from anywhere.

Sheik's jab-jab cancel works with a lot of things, if you catch Marth trying to up+B early and as a result getting upward ASDI you can actually cancel into crouch to avoid the Dolphin Slash (not guaranteed, but really really good when it works), and of course there's the cancels into nair and dsmash. Canceling into dtilt is easy enough, though dtilt doesn't really follow into anything. If the opponent for some reason doesn't like shielding you can cancel into ftilt which gives very obvious follow-up opportunities.

If you're going for grabs, go for grabs. It's a bit limiting to try to lead everything with jabs. I guess it's notable that her jab outranges her grab, which makes a difference in things like punishing G&W's dair from shield.
 

Orion*

Smash Researcher
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
4,503
Location
Dexters Laboratory
If you land while charging needles I believe you have no landing lag, but there's something like a 7-frame duration on canceling the charge into anything, from anywhere.

Sheik's jab-jab cancel works with a lot of things, if you catch Marth trying to up+B early and as a result getting upward ASDI you can actually cancel into crouch to avoid the Dolphin Slash (not guaranteed, but really really good when it works), and of course there's the cancels into nair and dsmash. Canceling into dtilt is easy enough, though dtilt doesn't really follow into anything. If the opponent for some reason doesn't like shielding you can cancel into ftilt which gives very obvious follow-up opportunities.

If you're going for grabs, go for grabs. It's a bit limiting to try to lead everything with jabs. I guess it's notable that her jab outranges her grab, which makes a difference in things like punishing G&W's dair from shield.
snake can still dash attack you before you land. unless you want to start cancelling the needles and then like double jumping or something? lol put yourself into a even worse position to be read.

unless like somehow bair/fair beats snakes dash attack and you can do that ish consistently from whatever angle. it just doesnt seem as reliable an option to jump around charging needles vs a majority of cast in comparison to just regular running away. even if snake goes for a grab it's a pretty gay move, because it's like, if you cancel and do an attack it gets shield grabbed, he can grab you during the landing if you do nothing (maybe you'll get lucky if you buffer a spotdodge but thats just more and more unureliable). if you cancel and then double jump he has enough time to try and cover your landing.

maybe theres a benefit im not seeing but i just dont like it unless you are completely out of range of the ops punish options lol.

that marth trick is dope. if you dtilt can you also go under the DS? /broken ideas are coming to mind.

the last part pretty much is perfect. to many people jab just to jab lol
 

Dcold

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 30, 2009
Messages
1,374
Location
Wherever sarcasm can be made
I try to only do it when I know I can't be punished for it lol, it's a habit I do since I used to not be good at the pivot, and I still have in the back of my head, "If I **** up, I'm definitely eating damage". Even though I rarely mess it up now, I still do that as it's guaranteed for me not to mess it up. If someone is fast enough to chase me that quickly, instinct is to pivot. Plus if I use it so often they'll get more used to it.

And as Norn said jab has a farther range and is quick.
 

Zankoku

Never Knows Best
Administrator
BRoomer
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
22,906
Location
Milpitas, CA
NNID
SSBM_PLAYER
I only do jumping needle charges as a habit from Melee, but the only real benefit I've found in it compared to ground-reverse needle charges is that you can do stuff like hop onto a platform while charging, then mix up getting off of that platform with either a sliding aerial or charging needles on the way down, etc. It's kinda fun.

Something also kinda fun is ledge-dropping a reverse needle charge so that you can edgeguard with fair instead of bair. Don't accidentally chain.

I've avoided DS while dtilting before, but on Battlefield with the top platform there's too much cooldown for missing the dtilt to still have a chance at punishing the missed DS.
 

Orion*

Smash Researcher
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
4,503
Location
Dexters Laboratory
I try to only do it when I know I can't be punished for it lol, it's a habit I do since I used to not be good at the pivot, and I still have in the back of my head, "If I **** up, I'm definitely eating damage". Even though I rarely mess it up now, I still do that as it's guaranteed for me not to mess it up. If someone is fast enough to chase me that quickly, instinct is to pivot. Plus if I use it so often they'll get more used to it.

And as Norn said jab has a farther range and is quick.
from useless jumping in general im going to point out how many times you got punished for it in your mm w/ false who's not even like punishing you every time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK4TRpRKOGA

:31 instead of going under the nair, you jump away onto the ledge /loss of stage control
:35 from the loss of stage control you opt to jump again (not a bad option but you did choose to jump again, and got punished)
:40 instead of punishing his bad landing you jumped, then missed a bair for a punish
:58 you DJumped and false guess the landing afterwards and you got grabbed
1:15 was probably a smart place to try and do it actually, but i felt you where there for no reason. you looked flustered/scared or like not as smart about what you where doing after the edge guard for a bit, but he felt you only lightly, so you only got jabbed though.
1:18 if you where grounded it would have been easier, but you jumped preemptively for no reason and missed a punish on nair and took some %
1:44 Loss of stock
/you switch to zelda and got hit by nades (not exploding) a bunch here for no reason, but honestly i think im like the only person who gets salty about the little percent but it's like 5 or something so gay. so I'll just continue on.
2:29 dash attacked a landing on your zelda
2:33 nades your zelda when you jumped (you could have airdodged but then he also can just hit the landing at the spacing)
2:44 preemptive jump got you weak baired /zelda,
3:03 you fell through the platform then jumped into the nair?
3:11 jumps into nade
3:21 get ftilted
3:25 you get jab-ftilted for doing it to obviously from the ledge
4:00 loss of stock for jumping into bair, you should have recovered at a lower angle

these are not times you should have been punished
or could have been punished
or whatever

these are times you got directly hit for no reason. you had very little overall reward in comparison. you had like some string at 3:40 or something that really looked... well tbh it just seemed like awkward reactions from both players and not a reliable way to start something vs better ones.

im not saying not to jump ever.
but it should be clear that you at least need to think more before doing it if it's getting you hit this often in general regardless of the options you're doing out of it. this isn't sheik specific or whatever, just general basic gameplay and i feel if you learned not to have this problem and when to walk you would be much more consistent as a player.
 
Joined
Mar 2, 2011
Messages
3,114
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
Lansing with while charging needle is actually pretty nice because you can instantly roll on landing. I Also do the short hop needle charge, because it looks cool, and if I mess up the other one I either chain or roll into them.

Leaning how to do things is a pain.
 

#HBC | Scary

Hype Incarnate
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
5,258
Location
Assassin on the Great Fox
NNID
ScaryLB59
The recent cross/otori set was nice to watch but I feel like cross wasn't taking advantage of good options. I feel like he didn't use his mobility advantage too much but then again, he still played excellently.
 

Dcold

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 30, 2009
Messages
1,374
Location
Wherever sarcasm can be made
^ Watched those on stream, was cheering from the chat. You played really nice, just at times it looked like you were getting desperate for kills and took heavy damage for it when you could have laid back and played it safe. Overall it was really nice though.
 

phi1ny3

Not the Mama
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
9,649
Location
in my SCIENCE! lab
He also choked up on recovering and some offstage shenanigans, stuff like that is pretty big to heap on. Loved that early aerial needle -> fair thing though haha.
 

phi1ny3

Not the Mama
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
9,649
Location
in my SCIENCE! lab
Anyone else notice that Sheik's dash/run animation is so short, you don't even have to do a true pivot from a run, and you can still essentially do the same thing functionally as one? (provided you don't mess up and do a "skid" turnaround lol) All this time I thought I was doing a true pivot until I tried to do it with marth/other chars lol, but sheik can do some cool flashy stuff like dash behind shield -> turn-around pseudo pivot -> jab/ftilt (or do retreating ftilts between dashes). It's really cool, I mean, it's not the most effective example on the former, but it's really neat what kinds of options you can think of for something like that.
 

Orion*

Smash Researcher
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
4,503
Location
Dexters Laboratory
He also choked up on recovering and some offstage shenanigans, stuff like that is pretty big to heap on. Loved that early aerial needle -> fair thing though haha.
this
I turn my wii on once every two weeks, this sounds like a real pain.
then expect to place in bracket like you turn it on that often xD
make a change if you want to get better
Anyone else notice that Sheik's dash/run animation is so short, you don't even have to do a true pivot from a run, and you can still essentially do the same thing functionally as one? (provided you don't mess up and do a "skid" turnaround lol) All this time I thought I was doing a true pivot until I tried to do it with marth/other chars lol, but sheik can do some cool flashy stuff like dash behind shield -> turn-around pseudo pivot -> jab/ftilt (or do retreating ftilts between dashes). It's really cool, I mean, it's not the most effective example on the former, but it's really neat what kinds of options you can think of for something like that.
yeahhh its awesome
until you try to do true pivots and realize it's harder LOL
 

Orion*

Smash Researcher
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
4,503
Location
Dexters Laboratory
That's a lot of unnecessary words to say "okay but you suck."
not necessarily. if you're ego is insulted by that then there are other problems at work. it's just simply realistic, regardless of who's playing.

ex: lets say you're average skill at a tournament event is a 5.
the absolute WORST you can play regardless of how sick, tired, hungover ect is a 0.
The best you can play is a 10.

If you stop playing entirely for a while, especially considering the low technical barrier for many characters in the game, you still won't drop below zero. However if you're constantly practicing you increase your consistency to play at your best, or in other words your 10.

Through tournament play and practice there are people who have not only raised their base skill really high, but also managed to minimize the range of skill they can play in. ex
m2ks average is a 8-9, and he very rarely if ever plays worse than a 7.

ex: literally very few players actively practice in my region, and for the most part out of the ones that do they are still low enough that my absolute worst is still able to beat their best.

because of this i have been able to not practice this game actively at all post apex, and still place twice 2nd to mr.r. However realistically I do not expect it to continue this way and as other players get better, players travel from other regions, and i stay lazy I will lose. it just depends if you are content with that and how hungry you are to win and improve.
 

Zankoku

Never Knows Best
Administrator
BRoomer
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
22,906
Location
Milpitas, CA
NNID
SSBM_PLAYER
Actually it's not so much that he feels insulted as he feels that he actually does suck.
 

Dcold

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 30, 2009
Messages
1,374
Location
Wherever sarcasm can be made
If anyone has replays that need recording, I'll be glad to upload them for you. Just contact me via Skype (osnapdcold) and I can upload them for you. I'd love to see some of your playstyles since there are so little videos of y'all ;-;
 

-Mars-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 26, 2007
Messages
6,515
Location
UTAH
I've got a bunch of replays on my Wii that i've been meaning to upload but Dazzle doesn't wanna work with my computer for whatever reason.
 

Dcold

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 30, 2009
Messages
1,374
Location
Wherever sarcasm can be made
If you've got an SD card, you could move the replays from the Wii -> SD Card, then upload the replay data to like mediafire or w/e. Not sure if you can send stuff through Skype, but if all else fails we can just send it through wii too.
 

Dcold

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 30, 2009
Messages
1,374
Location
Wherever sarcasm can be made
Wish you'd put them in a folder, but this should do. I'll tell you how things pan out soon.

Yeah they're all fine, are they tournament matches or anything? Like, what do you want in the description? Or would you like me to just record them and you upload them to your YT channel? Also if you have a skype/aim this will be a lot easier to relay.
 

-Mars-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 26, 2007
Messages
6,515
Location
UTAH
Created folder.

Yea if you could record them i'll upload them to YT and descript them n all dat stuff.

Don't got skype or AIM lololol i live in a cave bruh
 

Dcold

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 30, 2009
Messages
1,374
Location
Wherever sarcasm can be made
Lmao, alright, I should be done recording all of them in like, under an hour hopefully.

Also do you want it in like, a separate video for each match? Or like 1 of All Sheik vs Snake, the other all Sheik vs MK?
 

Jimmyfosho

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 1, 2010
Messages
5,317
Location
Being sarcastic and pointing out the obvious.
How would I go about sending you replays without my wii? Like where do I find them on my SD card, Lmao? I have been practicing for a tournament with a friend that mains lucario for maybe the past month or so. We saved a ****load replays but would probably only send a few over because there is a lot of them lol.
 

Dcold

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 30, 2009
Messages
1,374
Location
Wherever sarcasm can be made
Go to your SD card, and it's in private wii app RSBE rp and the data is in there. To find it easier, you can just move the replays you don't want to send me onto your wii, so the ONLY files on your SD card in that folder would be the replays you want me to record. Then send through Mediafire.
 
Top Bottom