Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[hectohertz]

@ KirbyKaze , if Fox/Falco is trying to sweetspot the ledge moving downwards with the lowest angled firefox (the one thats often called the "17 degree angle"), can you hit that with a perfectly timed dsmash? if not, what works well against that? dropzone fair?

 

[R-Moeny]

what do you mean? sheik shouldn't spend too much time on a top platform anyways so the stage hardly effects your neutral game or your setups

recovering on that stage is stupid though

Not exactly accurate. Depending on the matchup sheik can spend a good amount of time on the top platform. IC's comes to mind.

With no transformations you play it as you usually would. When transformations occur you just have to be intelligent about where you position sheik. Move to where you can zone them out effectively and abuse sheik's stengths (b-air zoning and getting underneath them to u-air/utilt/fair/bair would be the go-to's)

Boost grab is really good. I likely don't use it enough but I am trying to stray away from any overextending and most of the time that can be what it is. It can be worth it due to the huge reward of hitting it, but still risky. I'm not referring to techchasing, you always boost grab tech rolls there.

Yeah I don't really know what to do on the transforms with her so I usually just end up on the ledge until its over...

 

[Laudandus]

@ KirbyKaze , if Fox/Falco is trying to sweetspot the ledge moving downwards with the lowest angled firefox (the one thats often called the "17 degree angle"), can you hit that with a perfectly timed dsmash? if not, what works well against that? dropzone fair?

Dropzone fair and needle are both effective.

 

[KirbyKaze]

@ KirbyKaze , if Fox/Falco is trying to sweetspot the ledge moving downwards with the lowest angled firefox (the one thats often called the "17 degree angle"), can you hit that with a perfectly timed dsmash? if not, what works well against that? dropzone fair?

I don't think d-smash hits that.

What Laudandus said. Edgehogging is also okay.

 

[Alulim]

Could somebody tell me about the function of downsmash when used in the neutral game?
I currently see it as another tool to use to stuff approaches given its invincibility and priority. Also see it as a get off me move when someone tries to grab you even if they messed up the initial tech chase. I guess its also a kill move at higher percents, especially since you can jab -> down-smash at high percents for the kill.

Not sure about its utility outside that however.

 

[KirbyKaze]

You covered the gist of it. It's a good counter-poke, it's a decent combo finisher / extender (vs FFers), and it's a good "get off me" move.

Sometimes you can Drephen people by running up to them with dash cancel d-smash but I recommend you run up & grab a lot first before you try something like that. Partially for authenticity, partially because it makes the d-smash more likely to work if you grab a lot first.

 

[Alulim]

Right. It stops preemptive shines and spot dodges whenever you dash up or get close to the opponent since dash attack and grab is what Sheiks are most likely to do. Thanks KK.

 

[virtuososteve]

Hey, I am having a lot of trouble with combo DI. Whenever I play a competent marth or falcon their combos are always deadly. Do you guys know of a good guide or anything to help with DI and stuff?

 

[Xyzz]

They both have good combos on Sheik. Hold away and down, and hope for the best.

 

[BreezyFalcon]

Alright not sure if this is already known but while messing around with sheik i found you can cancel her up-air by full hoping under a platform and performing up-air at a certain height and she lands on the platform the same way as just falling on a platform except she is able to act out of this immediately not sure if this is faster than just wavelanding onto a platform or not. just thought it was neat. also if you try and sheild the sheild pops up for a second then forces a jump

 

[hectohertz]

Alright not sure if this is already known but while messing around with sheik i found you can cancel her up-air by full hoping under a platform and performing up-air at a certain height and she lands on the platform the same way as just falling on a platform except she is able to act out of this immediately not sure if this is faster than just wavelanding onto a platform or not. just thought it was neat. also if you try and sheild the sheild pops up for a second then forces a jump

yeah, this is known. i *think* what you're doing is a:
zero-impact lag autocancel up-air

try saying that one fast
but i could be wrong on the specifics. but yes, its known, i think phanna had a video showing off this kind of thing. ZILs are significantly faster than wavelanding (or just regular landing) as they have no lag, as opposed to 10f for waveland, and 4f for regular land

do you have any specific setups for this? i use ZILs on 3 platform stages to land on the top platform by walking off the side platform and then DJing. you can also ZIL from a SH on stadiums neutral transformations side platforms. I'd love a way to ZIL onto the side platforms of a 3 platform stage, so lmk if you have a setup for this...

 

[tauKhan]

Alright not sure if this is already known but while messing around with sheik i found you can cancel her up-air by full hoping under a platform and performing up-air at a certain height and she lands on the platform the same way as just falling on a platform except she is able to act out of this immediately not sure if this is faster than just wavelanding onto a platform or not. just thought it was neat. also if you try and sheild the sheild pops up for a second then forces a jump

I've heard it being called platform cancelled uair (the term is kind of confusing because of edge cancelling mechanic.)
@ hectohertz This one is just uair causing sheik to land on the platform. Since uair is in it's auto cancel window, you get a regular landing animation (4 frames) instead of the attack landing lag. The no impact landing you are talking about is a different phenomenon: it happens only when landing during dj animation. If you land during dj, you go into an animation that is cancellable by anything.

 

[Heero Yuy]

What exactly does M2K do here at this exact moment? http://youtu.be/tHP06bjmhuM?t=2m15s

What are it's uses for in a game and how do I do it?

 

[dkuo]

run towards edge, upb right before running off edge, hold in

you can edgehog with it, and the early poof has a hitbox

 

[HodgyDot]

run towards edge, upb right before running off edge, hold in

you can edgehog with it, and the early poof has a hitbox

i am almost positive you have to run off the edge to do this, ive been trying this for a week straight trying to get it down and its much harder then stalling with up b

 

[hectohertz]

i am almost positive you have to run off the edge to do this, ive been trying this for a week straight trying to get it down and its much harder then stalling with up b

its called 'gliding'. you up-b as you are going off the ledge. its a pretty lenient timing, the tricky part is to up-b without jumping. make sure to hit b before up.

its almost totally useless though, its a lot slower than either a needle turnaround or a wavedash turnaround

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Hey guys, since this is the most active Sheik thread, I wanted to ask for some critique on my Sheik, since I have recently picked her up and would like a lot of advice on what I can improve on.

Part 1: http://youtu.be/UtZkzAV0YxY?t=18m23s
Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hp21Td2dVA
Part 3: http://youtu.be/7VA8mogrdFw?t=5m28s

 

[HodgyDot]

its called 'gliding'. you up-b as you are going off the ledge. its a pretty lenient timing, the tricky part is to up-b without jumping. make sure to hit b before up.

its almost totally useless though, its a lot slower than either a needle turnaround or a wavedash turnaround

Really? i have a ton of touble doing it, but my needle turn around is bad aswell

 

[Alulim]

Short hop reverse needle cancel fast fall is one of the more annoying but essential tactics that Sheik players need to learn. Though tedious, it isn't as bad as nair oos!

 

[hectohertz]

Really? i have a ton of touble doing it, but my needle turn around is bad aswell

practice needle turnarounds. they are super fundemental/essential/amazing and having them fast opens up a lot of possibilities

 

[NASAsocal]

who do you guys think is the most aggro sheik with best results if there is such thing.

 

[BrTarolg]

who do you guys think is the most aggro sheik with best results if there is such thing.

android

 

[Heero Yuy]

Nair OoS is absurdly difficult... Or at least I find it to be. Sheik's difficult SH + really fast jump = hard to get the timing right to get a successful hit.

 

[SonuvaBeach]

I felt the same way for a very long time. It's just a lot of practice and you'll get it. I use Y --> A

 

[NASAsocal]

this is totally scrubby but i'm honestly having a lot of trouble doing double bair off the ledge, anyone have the exact inputs?

 

[hectohertz]

this is totally scrubby but i'm honestly having a lot of trouble doing double bair off the ledge, anyone have the exact inputs?

can you explain what you mean by "double bair off the ledge"? maybe a vid link?

im guessing you mean (from ledge):
- drop
- bair
- dj + bair
- up-b to regrab ledge

but alternatively:
-drop
-dj + bair
- bair
- up b to regrab ledge

 

[shadrach kabango]

Nair OoS is absurdly difficult... Or at least I find it to be. Sheik's difficult SH + really fast jump = hard to get the timing right to get a successful hit.

It's easier imo if you buffer the jump with c-stick up and then nair w/ z.

That's how I do it when I'm playing well. When I'm not playing well I jump with x and do it with A, but that is a lot slower.

 

[hectohertz]

Nair OoS is absurdly difficult... Or at least I find it to be. Sheik's difficult SH + really fast jump = hard to get the timing right to get a successful hit.

we talked about this a lot earlier in the thread, so scroll back for some pointers but the short of it is:

-practice against a standing puff. if you hit her with it "on the way up" you did it frame 1.
-use different fingers to do the jump and the nair. for me, that's x -> z. YMMV. c-stick is an option.

 

[Osh]

What exactly does M2K do here at this exact moment? http://youtu.be/tHP06bjmhuM?t=2m15s

What are it's uses for in a game and how do I do it?

Yeah gliding or Edge Canceled Vanish for scientific term :D I made a video exploring some of Sheik's basic tech about a year ago. It seems pretty scrubby now so don't be too hard, but check it out! Start at 3:31 for the info about Edge Cancel Vanish

sorry for the embed :x

 

[NASAsocal]

can you explain what you mean by "double bair off the ledge"? maybe a vid link?

im guessing you mean (from ledge):
- drop
- bair
- dj + bair
- up-b to regrab ledge

but alternatively:
-drop
-dj + bair
- bair
- up b to regrab ledge

okay so here is my issue, I grab the ledge, drop off but by the time my bair is out I'm already in the kill zone and I die before I can double jump into another bair, at first I thought I was fast falling but that doesn't seem to be the issue, I know there is one small detail i'm missing but I have no idea what it is, this shouldn't be hard but for some reason it is lol

 

[BrTarolg]

So question - how do you guys go about performing turnaround vanish?

I've personally always moved sheik away from the edge during the up+b so that the angle is easier but i've seen people consistently get it from an almost vertical vanish (ala the video above) can someone explain the mechanics for this?
Like what is the reasoning that you can turnaround but not screwup your direction etc.

edit: the above post says on the 35th frame you can input things that wont screw your direction but will affect your distance and which way you are facing. So it's basically a 1 frame trick?

 

[Xyzz]

okay so here is my issue, I grab the ledge, drop off but by the time my bair is out I'm already in the kill zone and I die before I can double jump into another bair, at first I thought I was fast falling but that doesn't seem to be the issue, I know there is one small detail i'm missing but I have no idea what it is, this shouldn't be hard but for some reason it is lol

there's two options if other people get a higher bair than you do: either you fastfall while they don't, or - quite simply - you're late at starting the bair. Precisely timing stuff (here inputting the aerial after letting go off the ledge) is far from trivial.

 

[hectohertz]

okay so here is my issue, I grab the ledge, drop off but by the time my bair is out I'm already in the kill zone and I die before I can double jump into another bair, at first I thought I was fast falling but that doesn't seem to be the issue, I know there is one small detail i'm missing but I have no idea what it is, this shouldn't be hard but for some reason it is lol

yeah you almost certainly need to bair earlier. also this is a REALLY tight link on yoshis story, learn it on other stages first.

 

[hectohertz]

I've heard it being called platform cancelled uair (the term is kind of confusing because of edge cancelling mechanic.)
@ hectohertz This one is just uair causing sheik to land on the platform. Since uair is in it's auto cancel window, you get a regular landing animation (4 frames) instead of the attack landing lag. The no impact landing you are talking about is a different phenomenon: it happens only when landing during dj animation. If you land during dj, you go into an animation that is cancellable by anything.

ive actually been practicing this, its super fast + useful. :D hard as **** to get down, but just started drilling it

 

[Swedish Delight]

What are some good habits I have in this set against zero? I lost to him in winners semis while playing a campier sheik so I decided to be more aggressive in this second set. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB2cHwiEN_M

I understand most of my bad habits. I get wrecked by making tech errors like shield grabbing when i wanted to nair oos and messing up ledge game. I'm less sure of why they say I have good spacing and what I should keep on doing against fox players that lets me get a hit in.

 

[Sweet™]

I am so bad at this character.

 

[ToastRider]

when im playing by myself what should i do to improve? like how do i practice effectively? i always just beat up on cpus and idk if its getting me anywhere lol

 

[hectohertz]

when im playing by myself what should i do to improve? like how do i practice effectively? i always just beat up on cpus and idk if its getting me anywhere lol

my "bair" minimum of things you have to be able to do:
needle turnaround grab ledge / aerial
shffl aerials
autocancel aerials
wd
dthrow -> fair / uair on floaties
boost grab
CG
ftilt -> fair
dash attack -> fair
ledgedash
nair oos
dd


i can't really recommend a solid general practice routine, but if you are fairly newer (im guessing), go through that list and pick one and practice it till you can do it consistently. repeat till you can do all of them.

 

[ToastRider]

Ok ty

I have a couple of questions: what are boost grabs and autocancel aerials? And yeah I'm a noob, I've played a decent amount of ssb64 but just coming to melee

 

[Alulim]

Ok ty

I have a couple of questions: what are boost grabs and autocancel aerials? And yeah I'm a noob, I've played a decent amount of ssb64 but just coming to melee

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=boost+grab