If you can, get that 20XX Hack Pack. It helps sooooo much.
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Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA
- Thread starter KirbyKaze
- Start date
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Or I could dig up those old posts by Plank and KK on tech chasing...
So I recently decided to try and pick up Shiek, and I have a few character specific tech questions. I'm aware of the infinite ledge stall/shino stall, as well as the needle reversal, however I was wondering if there was any other Shiek specific tech that I should be aware of?
Nedved
Smash Apprentice
Hi.
The Reverse Needle Cancel (RNC) is really useful. To do it, just jump, then tap your stick (right if you are facing left, left if you are facing right), release it, then press and hold B. Sheik will turn in the air. Finally, press R or L to cancel the needles. Since you were holding B, Sheik won't throw it, just charge them.
If you get a side-B instead of the Reverse Neutral B, it's because you didn't release your control stick.
Making sure you can do it really fast, 100% of the time is really important. You'll be able to edgeguard or grab the edge efficiently with it.
About the C-Stick : For every aerieals (except neutral, which can only be perform with A), you must use it. This way, you'll be able to get your full attention on you control stick for your spacing / positionning.
About Sheik techs... This char is a lot about spacing correctly, playing consistently and punishing every mistakes. There is no flashy stuff you must learn to become good (unlike Fox). But getting faster with your every move, spacing, etc... is the most important.
You can work on getting a decent ledgedash (wavedash from the edge) since it's not 'that' easy.
The Reverse Needle Cancel (RNC) is really useful. To do it, just jump, then tap your stick (right if you are facing left, left if you are facing right), release it, then press and hold B. Sheik will turn in the air. Finally, press R or L to cancel the needles. Since you were holding B, Sheik won't throw it, just charge them.
If you get a side-B instead of the Reverse Neutral B, it's because you didn't release your control stick.
Making sure you can do it really fast, 100% of the time is really important. You'll be able to edgeguard or grab the edge efficiently with it.
About the C-Stick : For every aerieals (except neutral, which can only be perform with A), you must use it. This way, you'll be able to get your full attention on you control stick for your spacing / positionning.
About Sheik techs... This char is a lot about spacing correctly, playing consistently and punishing every mistakes. There is no flashy stuff you must learn to become good (unlike Fox). But getting faster with your every move, spacing, etc... is the most important.
You can work on getting a decent ledgedash (wavedash from the edge) since it's not 'that' easy.
BO/\K
Smash Apprentice
You can also use Z. I actually find Z a lot easier.
CrazyCupofJoe
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- May 29, 2014
- Messages
- 71
First time posting in this thread! What is up guys, hope you all are well. Anyways I have got a quick question. What would lead to more (combo/long-term) a platform drop n-air, f-air or u-air on someone who is underneath you not in kill percent?
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Short answer: It's situational.
Longer answer: 99% of the time your goal is to keep the other player above you at all times. Whatever gives you the ground advantage is what you're going to want. Keep them close, but try and control them with well spaced moves.
Someone may be able to give better advice than me, but that's my input.
Longer answer: 99% of the time your goal is to keep the other player above you at all times. Whatever gives you the ground advantage is what you're going to want. Keep them close, but try and control them with well spaced moves.
Someone may be able to give better advice than me, but that's my input.
Nedved
Smash Apprentice
U-air might be the best choice, but good luck using a drop u-air on someone who isn't in a very long lag (bowser fmsash maybe). I'd go for n-air cause of cool hitboxes, but it's really situational imho
So, got some questions about powersheilding lasers
I'm having some issues with powersheilding atm - i am very consistent at certain laser heights (most notably the standing laser height) - i also can time the low laser (very hard but doable - i crouch and it's just before it hits your crouched face)
However does anyone have any tips for dealing with the higher lasers? Also how to powersheild it in terms of cues for the low lasers when standing/running? I really need to learn this trick more as i'm being overwhelmed by a few flowchart laser spammers atm and it's really annoying lol. I don't like restricting my entire game to platform camping and the air because i feel that is where sheik is the weakest
I'm having some issues with powersheilding atm - i am very consistent at certain laser heights (most notably the standing laser height) - i also can time the low laser (very hard but doable - i crouch and it's just before it hits your crouched face)
However does anyone have any tips for dealing with the higher lasers? Also how to powersheild it in terms of cues for the low lasers when standing/running? I really need to learn this trick more as i'm being overwhelmed by a few flowchart laser spammers atm and it's really annoying lol. I don't like restricting my entire game to platform camping and the air because i feel that is where sheik is the weakest
BO/\K
Smash Apprentice
Any tips for winning neutral against Falcon? For some reason when I play against falcons I feel as pressured as i do against foxes even though that shouldn't be the case. My punishes on Falcon are great (I can confidently get them to 60%+and potentially an edgeguard situation to boot off a low percentage grab), but in neutral I have a hard time hitting him and starting punishes more often than he opens me up and punishes me.
Also how do you play against ICs? I played a guy (usually a marth player but he seems to have developed a counterpick ICs for sheik) on FoD twice. The games were close but I didn't feel like I had a strong gameplan. I spaced a lot of fairs and downsmashed a lot. Aside from that I ate a lot of **** for ftilting (cc'd) and didn't feel like I had room to breathe. I'm thinking FoD wasn't the wisest of stage choices considering how cramped it is but I'm not sure. Switching to my Fox (which I'm sure can handle this MU) isn't an option here because like I said these were CP ICs.
Also how do you play against ICs? I played a guy (usually a marth player but he seems to have developed a counterpick ICs for sheik) on FoD twice. The games were close but I didn't feel like I had a strong gameplan. I spaced a lot of fairs and downsmashed a lot. Aside from that I ate a lot of **** for ftilting (cc'd) and didn't feel like I had room to breathe. I'm thinking FoD wasn't the wisest of stage choices considering how cramped it is but I'm not sure. Switching to my Fox (which I'm sure can handle this MU) isn't an option here because like I said these were CP ICs.
Crazc
Smash Journeyman
you play sheik by getting them in the air then fair-ing. that it. done.
The hardest thing for Falcon players is that the have to approach. Sheik has needles, and excellent disjointed moves that, when spaced correctly, put a wall up between her and Falcon. If they're running around in the neutral position just charge needles and watch their movement. If they approach with something, probably a neutral air, or sometimes an up air, just time an f-tilit and fair them. Just remember that when he's above 60%, you basically have him restricted on what he can and can't do, and can control the pace of their stock.
Although Peach is typically the stronger IC's counter compared to Sheik, we still have the edge if we play correctly. Ice Climbers rely a lot on wavedash approached grabs and smashes. What do we do to prevent this? Throw needles. This tacks damage on them, and limits their movement. Remember that IC's can chaingrab Sheik with dthrow alone from 0-some fairly high percent with a guaranteed follow up. IC's have a fairly weak air game compared to us. The big thing is to remember the strengths and weaknesses from both characters.
I can maybe explain a little better if you make your questions a little more specific in case I didn't help.
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hectohertz
Smash Ace
you cannot powershield falcos highest laser. you can duck / run / throw needles under it though
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I find the dash grab easier
hectohertz
Smash Ace
dash grab ftw. its just as fast as a perfect JC grab, and it has hitboxes infront of and behind her.
plus i feel like it hits a little "higher" as well
plus i feel like it hits a little "higher" as well
BO/\K
Smash Apprentice
What's the flowchart I should follow for a low percent back throw off the stage against space animals? I find if I WD onto the ledge I can't cover an immediate DJ illusion. Should I wait for them to go for that option and stuff it with a needle or something and then if they don't go for it do the usual ledgehop bair games?
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
You could ledgehop nair the illusion on your way back up if you think they're going above you. Usually you can follow up afterwards. Or, if you get out there fast enough and they're in the right spot, double bair, grab the edge, rinse and repeat until their stock's gone.
Smooth Criminal
Smooth Criminal
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Am I in the minority that doesn't do JC or dash grabs when chaingrabbing...?
I like, never drop it if I have it. Figured if it isn't broke, don't fix it.
I like, never drop it if I have it. Figured if it isn't broke, don't fix it.
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SonuvaBeach
Smash Lord
hectohertz
Smash Ace
what i like to do against spacies after a bthrow is throw a quick SH needle, then try to cover anything else on reaction
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virtuososteve
Smash Apprentice
For the people that have the 20xx hack, what are good practice tips that you have figured out? I figured out the tech chasing thing, (you just have to let the fox/falco shine or else it just doesn't tech the dthrow) then the nair/grab oOs to practice spacing and fox's drill grab to up-throw to uair to practice smash di. Any other cool combinations you guys have come up with?
i'm assuming you're talking about low/mid %'s where they have to telegraph the DJ sweetsot a bit
Spacies options boil down to this
DJ illusion sweetspot
DJ just above horizontal needles firefox
DJ airdodge onto stage
Shine stall
yolo aerial or dj onto stage
scrub illusion into your face
Generally, i feel there are two major options that sheik can take here.
After the bthrow, you can go for the shorthop reverse needles to cover the sweetspot, and this covers all recoveries that involve attempting to DJ sweetspot, shine stall and airdodge back onto stage (aswell as yolo stage recoveries). It also covers scrub illusions as you can basically do another needle into their face or ftilt them out of it on reaction. If you are early enough, you can then cover the firefox/bird with a runoff fair (to cover the sweetspot attempt) or you can do a needle charge mixup (to cover sweetspot and then cancel to cover onstage recoveries)
The other option is to do a jump off with your back facing them and this covers firefoxes and scrub illusions. It can also cover sweetspot illusions if you are fast depending on the DI/%ages if you fastfall and time your bair correctly. You can also wreck shine stalls on reaction if your spacing is good
If you got a read you can do some hard punishes (run off dj nair to cover illusion sweetspots). You can also do fullhop needles to cover sweetspot illusions and give you some more offfstafe options (if you follow with offstage and cover the illusion sweetspot, you can basically render it to force them to firefox)
You can also do WDoff bair (with a dj bair) to cover certain options
There are also other options too but basically there is no easy flowchart and it just takes a lot of experience/practise with trying different things to try and cover as much as you can.
CrazyCupofJoe
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- May 29, 2014
- Messages
- 71
Well since anyone hasn't posted here in a while, I'll give it a shot. Is it possible while on BF to run off a side platform and reverse needle cancel onto the ledge? I've been trying, even in slow mode, and haven't been able to get it. Would the better option be to just short hop -> RNC -> grab ledge?
Xyzz
Smash Champion
it's even possible to just run off the stage itself and rnc > ledgegrab (stupidly hard though)
(stupidly hard though)
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CrazyCupofJoe
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- May 29, 2014
- Messages
- 71
Well ****, and I thought what I was trying to do was hard.it's even possible to just run off the stage itself and rnc > ledgegrab
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Don't forget the FF
The FF is what makes the pivot-hog sexy
The FF is what makes the pivot-hog sexy
hectohertz
Smash Ace
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Yes
I prefer using dash dance to turn myself around but turn is aight
I prefer using dash dance to turn myself around but turn is aight
@
hectohertz
I would use smash turn so you won't have to wait for the turn and can't miss the turn by jumping too fast. Another thing you can do is teeter cancel dash back wd ff to the ledge from full run.
hectohertz
I would use smash turn so you won't have to wait for the turn and can't miss the turn by jumping too fast. Another thing you can do is teeter cancel dash back wd ff to the ledge from full run.
hectohertz
Smash Ace
If you smash input the turn (like you would when dash dancing) and jump on frame 2, you'll be turned around, but if you hold buffer or slight input the turn and jump on frames 2-5 of the turn (with sheik turn is 5 frames, many chars have longer turns), you won't be turned around. The same is true for shielding.
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hectohertz
Smash Ace
okay, i'm with you, how would you use that to get to the ledge from a run? WD smash turn?
It was a suggestion for this method you mentioned. So remember to smash turn when you use that.
hectohertz
Smash Ace
got it! thanks man
definitely gonna try out that teeter cancel next time im in the lab
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Run --> crouch (aka dash cancel) --> dash dance