Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[hectohertz]

I'm having trouble with the sheik samus match up anyone know some tips to winning the match up? anything helps.

stay fullscreen. throw needles. whiff punish with grabs. don't try to trade / approach. camp hard. throw needles to edgeguard.

 

[BrTarolg]

Powershielding missiles is also really easy and a lot of fun haha

 

[Xyzz]

Heh, nice to hear somebody else feels that way... I've always been mildly curious about that, I never play against Samus and certainly never put in extra practice for her projectiles, yet I hit far more powershields against her missiles than against Falco lasers despite being a lot more exposed to those.

 

[hectohertz]

oh yeah PS destroys her. missiles and charge shots are both pretty easy.


also your needle throwing animation ducks you under missles

 

[HRR2b23]

In regards to the Samus matchup, PS ing the super missiles is a relatively easy thing to do, but I find myself freezing up over the tracking missiles and am having a hard time dealing with those, especially on the smaller stages where I have less room to camp. I also have issues killing Samus and end up letting them live until 150% or so, which is really high. In short I've been having serious issues with this character and usually end up going Marth, but I really need to get this matchup down with Sheik.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Get better at d-throw --> uair/fair at 110%+

Fixes a lot of KOing issues in the matchup

Tracking missles are annoying

Try to be in the middle of the stage so you can dash attack under her or rush in with shield (to get into her face) if she tries to set up her missiles

Everything else loses to grab / spaced fair / needles (if you're camping her because she's camping you)

 

[Heero Yuy]

I've been using Sheik as a friendlies character for a while but now I'm starting to have fun with her to the point I'm considering maining her if I'm successful.

Just wanted to kick off with one question: What's her neutral game like in a nutshell? Can only really think of needle camping and ledgestalling until something happens.

 

[Guzzler Guzzler]

I've been using Sheik as a friendlies character for a while but now I'm starting to have fun with her to the point I'm considering maining her if I'm successful.

Just wanted to kick off with one question: What's her neutral game like in a nutshell? Can only really think of needle camping and ledgestalling until something happens.

Mostly consists of needle camping and baiting. You want to make your opponent nervous and go for a lot of grabs when they miss space something by taking advantage of boost grab

 

[Aidoony]

stay fullscreen. throw needles. whiff punish with grabs. don't try to trade / approach. camp hard. throw needles to edgeguard.

Go comboing

 

[HodgyDot]

So about that n-air off the map...

 

[Jackson]

So, I'm a Marth main in Brawl and i play him pretty well. Ive kinda been wanting to try out Melee, and so I was thinking of starting with Marth, but I'm not sure. Sheik looks cool. Is this a good character to start out with?

 

[BrTarolg]

quick question

i've always nair OOS with x+a. This has the unfortunately effect of being really hard to shorthop with it

How do you guys nairOOS and do it with a shorthop every time? i've had limited sucess with going from y->a but its so hard to get consistency on holding the y just short enough for a shorthop but not sliding fast enough to grab instead of aerial

 

[Alulim]

To me it's easier to short hop if you use X -> A or Y -> A as opposed to X/Y -> Z.

I use Y -> A. All it takes is practice and a ton of it. SH nair oos isn't honestly hard - doing it frame perfect is (Haven't gotten this part down yet). Look for KK's thread where he talks about training nair oos to be perfect using a jigglypuff as a dummy.

 

[Sweet™]

There's something I'm not getting about this game. I hate these dumb plateaus.

 

[Alulim]

Take a break and come back - You might benefit from a sudden Eureka effect. I've personally begun to slowdown my entire gameplay and began to reduce the number of moves I perform per second because of the previous vulnerabilities hat existed in constantly throwing out extraneous forward tilts for instance - This came from just strategizing how to approach the game from a different perspective as opposed to looking at how X beats Y because of certain timing / hitboxes.

You probably don't have a lot of the technicals down (perfect nair oos right after the shieldstun on a shine ends, before the second laser but after the first laser's hitstun ends when shielding Falco's ledge hop double laser, reacting to high nair with cc grab, and a bunch of other stuff). Work on that since it'll honestly take months if not years to get down.

 

[Sweet™]

I took a three month break. My nair OoS is fine I just don't use it properly.

It's mainly just my neutral game that sucks. Idk what else to do. I guess I just don't understand the game completely.

 

[dkuo]

goooooo sweet

 

[LightNeutrality]

So, I'm a Marth main in Brawl and i play him pretty well. Ive kinda been wanting to try out Melee, and so I was thinking of starting with Marth, but I'm not sure. Sheik looks cool. Is this a good character to start out with?

yes sure dude go for it sheik is a really easy character to start with and fun on the other hand marth pretty hard to learn to play in the competitive game but then again you can also watch ken's marth tutorial on youtube

 

[d z]

Checking to make sure I'm reading frame data correctly. Short hop duration = 38 frames. Bair = 37 frames. Uair IASA 37 frames. This means sh bair dj requires a frame perfect sh bair whereas sh uair dj has a 2 frame window on the uair?

 

[Xyzz]

Nai nai nai, the IASA means that there is a couple of moves (notably including dj, but not b-moves) you can interrupt the uair with on frame 37, instead of leaving the animation playing for the last two frames till frame 39 where you would again be allowed to do everything (like airdodging).

 

[d z]

Ya I understand that, I was just checking to make sure I wasn't making any off by one errors.

 

[HodgyDot]

Checking to make sure I'm reading frame data correctly. Short hop duration = 38 frames. Bair = 37 frames. Uair IASA 37 frames. This means sh bair dj requires a frame perfect sh bair whereas sh uair dj has a 2 frame window on the uair?

What? LOL are you DZ from net play? you might have to show me this sometime that went over my head.
]

 

[Divine Fist]

Open question: how do you play against a campy Puff? Is this a tough matchup for Sheik?

 

[stelzig]

quick question

i've always nair OOS with x+a. This has the unfortunately effect of being really hard to shorthop with it

How do you guys nairOOS and do it with a shorthop every time? i've had limited sucess with going from y->a but its so hard to get consistency on holding the y just short enough for a shorthop but not sliding fast enough to grab instead of aerial

If you let go of shield after jumping then you won't grab. You won't aerial either though.

 

[tauKhan]

I do nair OoS with x+a by pressing x with right side of my thumb and sorta roll it on a. That way I get short hops easily and well timed nairs come out naturally. With y sliding is difficult, since you gotta do it so slow.

 

[BrTarolg]

Lol finally got it consistent with the x-roll method thanks

I was worried i would have to learn to hold the controller in a different way which would suck
Use my nail to flick x then roll to a

 

[Alulim]

I'm pretty jealous of you guys who managed to get it with the X -> A method. My default way of jumping is using Y ... : (
Bleh, I need more practice.

 

[tauKhan]

I'm not consistently frameperfect with it though I'll add that if I started learning melee from scratch, I would use Y. I kinda regret using x which is so far from b. With sheik it doesn't matter much though.

 

[Alulim]

Ah - I thought you guys managed to achieve frame perfect results with it. Yeah, that's where I'm stuck too. I think my accuracy for hitting it frame perfect is about 40%, give or take 10% but it always lags when I have to deal with hitting it right after shieldstun ends.

 

[hectohertz]

its really not very hard to get it consistent frame perfect. here's how:
first practice doing a SH oos. this sounds stupid, but practice it till you never FJ.

now if you are having problems getting from x->a or y->a, USE Z. seriously. there are more buttons. you can put a different finger on it. practice doing a frame 1 nair (not oos) by standing next to a puff and trying to hit her with a sh nair on the "way up". if you get it frame 1, it will hit her as you are rising. later frame, it will hit once you have started decending.

now put it all together by practicing going from being in shield to the nair. once you can do it against a standing puff, then practice against a CPU that will do pressure (look at teh 20XX training pack for more info on this)


i promise, you can do frame perfect nair oos with a bit of practice. its a 1-frame-link, BUT NO JOHNS


seriously though, a lot of people ive helped with this cant get their fingers from x/y -> a fast enough, but as soon as i made them use Z, they were doing it. Z ftw

 

[BrTarolg]

The reason why a lot of us have trouble with using Z is because we use our index finger on the R button for sheilding so if we are sheilded we have to let go of the r button and switch to Z

 

[stelzig]

I don't have any problem hitting Z and X, I never have my finger on R (I actually rest it below R). BUT I find it much harder to shorthop if I have to aerial on Z heh.

If it's just about doing it fast enough you can also flick the c-stick up and hit A. I tend to do it too fast and not get an aerial (or grab if I hold shield) this way though.

 

[Sweet™]

Had no idea Stelzig played Smash.

Nice.

 

[d z]

Hope Im not spamming this link, just wanna make sure all the Sheiks see this so we can take over the world >

http://smashboards.com/threads/dolphin-melee-training-mod.353982/

 

[BrTarolg]

Had no idea Stelzig played Smash.

Nice.

@ stelzig Lol c-stick up + a i just managed to hit jigglypuff like 10x in a row with it why didn't i know this before LOL

 

[hectohertz]

The reason why a lot of us have trouble with using Z is because we use our index finger on the R button for sheilding so if we are sheilded we have to let go of the r button and switch to Z

you can practice switching your finger from R->Z fast enough (thats what i do), or you can use another finger. you can claw so that you have different fingers on Z and R, or you can move a finger to R once you are already shielding, and then have your original finger free for Z.

i just got good at switching from R->Z. its not that fast, seeing as you have jumpsquat to get your finger from R->Z

 

[Alulim]

Wow. C-Stick Up + A is magical. My consistency's improved tons thanks to it - Gonna be my new method of performing nair oos now. Thanks Br.

 

[stelzig]

Hey I gave useful advice for once.

Of course I play smash :3

 

[Aidoony]

air dodge in different directions

 

[ahh_itsMcCoy]

need help with some sheik stuff

1.So what are some of sheiks punishes on rolls ? i was thinking perfect wavedash >u-smash & wavedash > d-smash may work on punishing rolls.
2.and when i shield an aerial atempt i was wondering whats better upsmash oos or nair out of shield or shield grab
3. when following tech chases should i dash away and than dash back to where they tech > follow up with a grab, or dsmash/upsmash, or tilt.