Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[Teczer0]

I agree i hate FD but I usually ban Pokemon stadium because of the relatively low ceiling and large room and superstition .

Well in general I would think how fox would do but nearly everywhere they do good so i generally simply pick a pro sheik stage is basically my point.

Or where I can take advantage of gay tricks or whatever if there is one.

 

[NeighborhoodP]

PS and FD are much worse than YS.

 

[cablepuff]

Edge guarding marth.

Do you have good strategy in edge guarding marth.

1.) I mean when is light shield edge guard better?
2.) When is it better to just run out and ledge guard back-air.
3.) When is it better to shino stall?
Any other tactics that are "hard to escape" for Marth.

From experience.. Needles sucks at yoshi story and fod, it actually saves them more than it kills them!!!

 

[Teczer0]

Edge guarding marth.

Do you have good strategy in edge guarding marth.

1.) I mean when is light shield edge guard better?
2.) When is it better to just run out and ledge guard back-air.
3.) When is it better to shino stall?
Any other tactics that are "hard to escape" for Marth.

From experience.. Needles sucks at yoshi story and fod, it actually saves them more than it kills them!!!

1) generally when marth is forced to sweetspot the edge but I generally don't use it with sheik. I do use it but rarely.

2) When you see if marth had used his double jump if you go out there all he can do is up-b and die or air-dodge and die or get hit and die.

3) I generally use the stall in two situations.

a) When I take a stock to sorta stall for a bit till their invincibility runs out.

b) If they try to attack you like when falco f-smashes and misses either completely or cuz of sheik's invincibility frames from her up-b. The opponent is too close to the edge forced to shield and you can take advantage that your stall can hit them if they shield it keep doin it until they do sumthin else.

What do you mean by "hard to escape"? as in combos or tactics?

There is generally no need to use needles to edge guard marth unless you think it can steal a jump in other words if you can hit them as they use their double jump.

EDIT: I need to read more carefully lmao

Hard tactics to avoid? If marth jumps you can dash attack under him and if you do it right its completely safe similar to the method drephen explained in his match up.

Try playing patient and see if you can make marth use a f-air or d-air in the air trying to just land on the ground. If they do f-air or b-air or u-air them out of the attack.

Also sometimes you can mess up marth's spacing if you run into him and shield. It can lead to a shield grab if they moved forward to do a shuffl f-air or sumthin.

There are more but experiment to hurt their approach.

 

[cablepuff]

hard to escape as in edge guard tricks/strategy (not gimmick) that works real well.

It works on all type of players not just bad ones but good ones and consistently too.. Only those two come to mind.

about back-air.
d.)
* marth can also counter...*

 

[Teczer0]

Did you see the edit?

Cuz i didn't read carefully sorry lol.

Marth can counter any attack who cares wouldn't marth's counter send sheik up and away from marth?

In other words if marth lands a counter on sheik's b-air during his recovery he will die and you will live.

 

[cablepuff]

hehe thanks.. but i was looking for more edge guarding.. ledge guarding (when marth grabs the edge and your on stage) tactics.

edit: both.

 

[Teczer0]

hehe thanks.. but i was looking for more edge guarding.. ledge guarding (when marth grabs the edge and your on stage) tactics.

??

ok so you want help when marth is on the edge already??

Or your on the stage and he is off and you are on the stage not on the edge??

>_>

I think im confusing myself...........

 

[brickman]

Marth usually gets with a aerial. In my experience the most common get ups are nair get ups and fair get ups. Sometimes they will waveland onto the stage and sometime use the uair, depending how close you are to the edge (although usually done against spacies).

I think one of the better stratgies to use against a marth who is on the edge is give him the space he needs and be just outside of that range and prepare to grab or do a quick aerial (provided there are platforms).

As far as other tactics, needling doesn't work to well, neither does d-smashing as it is usually punished.
I dunno. Try it out for yourself and experiment to see you what works for you.

 

[Teczer0]

Marth usually gets with a aerial. In my experience the most common get ups are nair get ups and fair get ups. Sometimes they will waveland onto the stage and sometime use the uair, depending how close you are to the edge (although usually done against spacies).

I think one of the better stratgies to use against a marth who is on the edge is give him the space he needs and be just outside of that range and prepare to grab or do a quick aerial (provided there are platforms).

As far as other tactics, needling doesn't work to well, neither does d-smashing as it is usually punished.
I dunno. Try it out for yourself and experiment to see you what works for you.

^^^^^^

Amazing -_-b

 

[unnknownz]

how do you fight icies, i been going up against them alot lately.. I always get chaingrabbed. I try to mainly stay in the air and fair them.

 

[ArcNatural]

how do you fight icies, i been going up against them alot lately.. I always get chaingrabbed. I try to mainly stay in the air and fair them.

You switch characters. I'm not even sure if this is debatable anymore. If they know what they are doing with waveshielding and smart use of the CC you are at a serious disadvantage.

 

[General_Zod]

Ics are tough to fight. My suggestion is to try to maintain a space between you and them. Whenever they come after you try to wavedash backwards into a forward tilt or a down tilt, this will get them in the air for a f-air or a b-air to rack up some damage. If there is a chance try to get nana out first, she can be a huge pain in the butt. Also, patience, never try to overcome them by ataccking because you will cetainly get chaingrabbed. >.<.

Hope this helps. =)

 

[Teczer0]

Sheik is at a disadvantage vs Icz but lately it seems more and more sheiks can fight very good Icz and do fine.

First ban FD if you are going to fight Icz depending on only b-air and f-airs to fight Icz is an uphill battle you don't want to be involved with it.

The way I generally fight Icz are extremely gay lol. I camp them so hard on top of platforms jumping and just repeating.

Eventually if they separate because you hit one Climber or both with needles you can just **** one.

Don't get greedy if they get back together just run and camp again.

I typically fight Nana (Assuming the player is Popo) and f-air her because if you knock her into the ground she won't tech (Real important) and I continually shuffl f-airs over and over.

If your forced into a position to fight Popo instead of Nana its more difficult if they shield just f-air their shield until Nana runs back and dash attack f-air nana. Obviously you should mix it up but you get the point I'm trying to make.

Its just some things I typically do lol.

Watch out for Up-airs they will **** you so hard also if you fall onto the ground and needle they might start to up-tilt watch out for that.

 

[Dragon_Hawk]

ban fd

camp needles on platforms

platform drop into aerials; primarily spaced bair and fair

space f-tilts and d-tilts so they can't shield grab or cc into anything. these become very spammable with good spacing.

ic are going to waveshield, cc and try to get under you a lot. respond to their waveshield camping with more needles. refrain from d-smashing and dash attacking. ground moves aside from spaced f/d-tilts and jabs should be avoided altogether. this is mostly an air game.

be gay. be patient.

 

[Teczer0]

Adding to that statement above if your going to f-tilt and stuff try to be behind the climbers that way it'll be harder to grab you.

Watch out for CC grabs they hurt a lot.

Its mostly an air game like Dragon_Hawk said.

Also really refrain from doing dash attacks unless its a guaranteed hit.

Same with D-smash but make sure you won't get grabbed after wards.

The last two should be stressed a lot lol

 

[ResidentWaffle]

Okay sorry about that Peach up-smash thing, I tried it a few times and it worked maybe because the peach I play is bad at responding to it. Also due to a growing number of these Peach players I was looking for some tips playing against them, and if possible ones that include di and percentage not just spacing and the like.

 

[Teczer0]

Peach 50%: Peach is possibly my best matchup and I love playing against her. This is a very even matchup if the Peach knows how to play it right and throws a lot of turnips! YOU HAVE TO PLAY SMART AGAINST A DECENT PEACH, OR YOU WILL NOT WIN.

Grabs: Ok these are incredibly important in this matchup. Reaction is key, too. At low %'s if you grab peach and dthrow, if she DI's completely away you can regrab. If she Di's right behind you, you can usually Usmash if the peach isn't that experienced, which leads to another aerial. For example, i grab a lot of peach's at 0%. Dthrow->regrab->regrab (when they DI away) then they will DI back, and Usmash, aerial. That's like 50% right there. If the peach doesn't DI right behind you, or uses slight DI forward just ftilt-->fair. Be careful and learn when she can break out with a Nair, her Nair is nasty. At higher %'s, (90+), just go for the Uair. Peach will live if you Fair her and she DI's correctly until 160% or so, but a Uair can kill at 100. Dthrow, and even if they DI away from you, just run forward and hit them with a running Uair. It combos, believe me. A great thing about this is a lot of times they'll be DI'ing up to try to survive the Fair, and get Uair'd and die early. You should be able to Dthrow-->Uair peach from like 80% til 120% no matter how she DI's.

Edgeguarding: Back airs. Needles. If the peach is floating at a height where your needles can hit, don't hesitate to take her float. Once you do that, hop on the edge and just edgeguard hanging or with backairs. If the Peach is high up, you can jump out after her and back air, either causing her to umbrellas or air dodge. If she umbrellas, just get back on the stage and try to hit her out of it. If she air dodges, the next time you go out after her just fake like you're going to back air, then land back on the stage and punish her air dodge.

Recovering against Peach: A lot of people complain about Peach ****** Sheik's recovery with Dsmash, but its pretty simple. Most peach's will simply hang on the ledge until you up+b back on the stage, then get up and Dsmash, sending you back out. All you have to do is hold down for a little and crouch cancel the first hit of her Dsmash, so the 2nd hit sends you back onto the stage instead of the first hit sending you back out off the stage for her to continue doing it. Practice the timing, it makes a HUGE difference in the match.

Approaches/Priority: Play smart. Needle if she floats within range of needles. If she is floating at you, just Short hop a Fair in her face, it goes right through her floating moves. Most peaches sidestep/downsmash/roll a lot, so use that to your advantage. Bait these things. Wavedash back, dance around, needle, make them do something stupid and punish it. Try to keep pressure on the peach. You want to stay close enough that they can't pull turnips, but not so close that you're in danger range. At low %'s shffl'd aerials work well to rack up damage, at high %'s grab combos are best for killing. IMPORTANT INFORMATION COMING: When Peach is on a platform, 99% of Peach's WILL ALWAYS DOWNSMASH, just hoping to get that lucky 60% in. Just walk directly under a Peach on a platform and stand there, wait for the dsmash, then Jump up and Uair combo them or Nair.

- Plank

Thats plank's guide on peaces it has a few percents in approaches and grabs but I really don't know too many percent wise things if anyone else is willing to answer that would be appreciated.

 

[Tope]

I think Sheik is Peach's worst match honestly.

 

[Cort]

*stares at Tope*

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

I'm pretty sure Marth is worse.

 

[cablepuff]

meh i thought fox was the worse. I would like to see tope's reason for sheik being the worst.

 

[Teczer0]

Thats an interesting opinion I personally think Fox is her worst match up.

I think its debatable between fox and marth *shrugs* oh well

 

[unnknownz]

fox is def the hardest matchup

 

[General_Zod]

Fox by far is the worst match up. But still is not impossible to defeat. The deal with fox is that you cannot make mistakes. Mistakes will lead to u-throw > u-air which leads to ****. But if you force them to make mistakes, their mistakes can lead to grab, tech chase and downsmash spam. The one who plays smarter wins.

 

[NeighborhoodP]

The one who plays smarter wins.

naw, the one who plays gayer wins, and it's a lot easier for fox to play gayer than sheik. so he wins.

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

Just a quick random question about Sheik, but, will Sheik be quicker and more agile than Zero Suit Samus?

 

[Pritch]

For the record, marth is peach's worst matchup. Then fox, then I guess sheik.

 

[General_Zod]

naw, the one who plays gayer wins, and it's a lot easier for fox to play gayer than sheik. so he wins.

hahahaha. So true about the gay play. But remember that sheik is the master of playing gay, so she has a shot against fox

 

[NeighborhoodP]

Just saw earlier people wondering how to play ICs. I just figured out how to play ICs this weekend and figured I'd share my knowedge:

- Don't camp the ICs as hard as a lot of people tell you to. I don't really like doign that; I did that for a long time and it never really worked because it takes forever, and your margin of error is still very low since it only takes one grab / random dsmash to start ****** you. Instead, get aggressive. shfair all day long. Shfair into spaced ftilts. Spacing is the most important thing of this matchup. You must use all of Sheik's low-lag moves -- punches, fairs, bairs, ftilts, dtilts -- and the higher the lag (the filts), the more perfect the spacing must be.

SHFair is perfect since it's too quick for them to do anything. And the shield pressure is what disrupts the ICs. Ftilt into fair will space the ICs apart and then give you combo time on whichever one you choose. Yes, you should needle spam a lot on platforms -- that should be one of your main approaches -- but it can get predictable and a good ICs can come up and disrupt you without giving up too much advantage.

Don't dsmash very often, or at all. It's relatively simple: spam quick, low-lag moves, space perfectly, be aggressive in your pressure. Know when to back off, though: you get to pick when to go at them and when to sit back, chill, and camp while waiting for a new opening. If you're ever at risk for dsmash or grab, JUST RUN AWAY. When Sheik is off the stage, ICs **** her, and dsmash is the quickest way to get her off the stage. Even with proper DI, dsmash hurts and sends you FAR AS HELL. It's gay. It's really quick since they can do it out of shield with a wd and come at you with either Nana or Popo. Learn the distance in which they can get it off AND AVOID IT.

But yeah, with this strategy Nana shouldn't be living very long since you can very easily and simply combo her to hell while at the same time being fast enough that Popo has a hard time catching up to you and following up and doing any damage to you. But don't underestimate Popo 1 v 1; Sheik still has a tough time because grabbing is gay, and they're small and mobile enough where it's not as easy as you think to **** the singular one.

 

[Hazygoose]

On Brinstar you can CC on the destroyable things that break the stage apart because you can't L-cancel on those things and most people don't know that so they'll just think they keep messing up and they get frustrated.

holy ****. you changed my life, bro. <3

also, tips on sheik dittos please, by someone who's experienced in them. i never play them and i feel like if i had to i'd get my butt penetrated.

 

[NeighborhoodP]

sheik dittos are simple:

low percentages: cc everything into dtilt and dsmash

spacing

chaingrabbing

just chaingrab perfectly, then the match starts at 100% or so

 

[CORRUPTiON]

Sorry if this has been discussed, but which way should you DI falcon's throws? How should one go about fighting falcon?

 

[Teczer0]

Regardless of your DI if the CF is good at a certain percent (According to G-reg I believe around 60-80% something like that) you will get hit by a knee.

In general just try to mix up your DI either forcing them to short hop for the knee or full hop for the knee although in general its really rough.

A general strategy vs Cf.... well.. lemme think more about that lol.

I'm not gonna lie in general when I see a CF i go fox LOL

 

[NeighborhoodP]

DI everything falcon does away except knee obv and spam jump button

courtesy of plank. it works.

 

[General_Zod]

=d

Captain falcon players are tough. I won't lie about that. But there are plenty of things that you can do to mess their game up. Fowards tilts eat their knees, that's a fact. Also, try mixing your game with needles, falcon players rely on dash dancing as a main aproach, so needles will mess up their game(and sometimes frustrate them, so that's a plus ). As for air game, Sheik's nair has a lot of priority over almost every falcon move so it's safe to attack with it. Falcon recovery is way too bad to be worried about. So whenever you're close to the ledge, back throw them and gay them out with needles, back airs and f-airs. Falcon's recovery is so slow that you will probably need a needle and to edgehog to get a easy stock.

Spacing... this is very important. Get the hell away from them xD. j/k. Wavedashing backwards into forward tilts and down tilts it is a safe way to defend yourself against cf's aerial game. Sometimes when they aproach you can wavedash backwards into a grab(if they fail their aerial), and these will lead to tech chase. Also, when you perform a down tilt, sheik gets so low that cf players can't grab you. (sheik is so broken, I love her =D)

Nevertheless, Captain falcon players are usually stressful to play against, because they move too much. DO NOT TRY TO SHIELDGRAB THEM! EVER! lol. Actuallyl, it depends on the level of the falcon player you're playing with. If it is a semi noob you can shield grab them because they will not shuffle too well, but pro players will never miss a shuffle, and they will dash away or jab you. So analize the player first.

Grabs... falcon players love to tech chase, but they hate being tech chased. It usually throw them off their game. D-throw them and follow their tech and regrab, sometimes you can d throw > jab > regrab. This will help to rack up damage to gay them out of the stage later.

wow, this was long. :D. A last tip, always stay on the move. If you stay in one place you will be kneed to death. xD.

This is based on my experience, so it's not perfect, but I Hope this helps you a bit. :D.

 

[Yomi-no-Kuni]

nice post Zod :D
i think i agree with everything you said xD
and its good to have it wrote down somewhere... it makes you remember it in a match a bit more...
eventhough i dont recommend WD back and then grab...
they might overshoot your postion because of their momentum and hit you with a knee or dair or w/e they like to do (nair^^)

 

[Teczer0]

Yeah good posts by lots of people >_>.

Is there any more input on CF?

Ill try to read the posts make a summary post and stick it on the first page.

I'll do the same for ICz match up whenever I get enough Info >.<.

Camp fair dont dash attack isnt enough lol

 

[Zane Fleia]

I don't handle Falcons well. If they're off the stage, they're easy to keep off, but while they're on, they comboraep me. >.>

Thanks for the info. My advice would be a lot of needles, and play defensively. Wait for them to screw up, or make them screw up, and punish them. Techchase a lot.

 

[Hazygoose]

DI everything falcon does away except knee obv and spam jump button

courtesy of plank. it works.

um...NO!
captain falcon can chainthrow you a bit if you DI away, not to mention combo pretty well. DI'ing up is where it's at. even with a downthrow. it's better to get dthrow-knee than dthrow-dthrow-dthrow-dthrow-dthrow-dthrow-knee. but then again maybe no everyone has felt the pressure of darkrain