Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[Teczer0]

well since all i do against falcon is tech chase, its really hard to falcon to move or do anything on that stage. He cant do too many up b tricksies and if he does its easy to predict. Main thing is to be patient and avoid klap traps ( i always double jump between platforms lol)

Yay Drephen advice

Well since drephen is somewhat active in this thread well.... how bout any advice on Fox/Falco I'm not awful at it but I could be better.

I would like to know your thoughts on how to either deal with their approach and how you approach.

What do you ban vs either one of them??

Vs fox I tend to ban Pokemon Stadium and Vs Falco I ban FD what do you think?

If there is other random tidbits of information that could help I would appreciate that too thanks drephen

I lost to Cactuar in Loser final tourney after beating him in like the second round and he came at me with a really aggressive fox I was looking back and wondering what I could do about that.

PS Cactuar if you read this you know I <3 you I just hate fox sometimes and I intend to give you a much better match (Even though you barely post in your own Q & A thread LMAO)

 

[Drephen]

Yay Drephen advice

Well since drephen is somewhat active in this thread well.... how bout any advice on Fox/Falco I'm not awful at it but I could be better.

lol k

lol first off my style is wayyyyyyyyyyyy different from normal sheiks especially against space animals so if you play "normal" sheik style go to plank's guide. Lots of useful stuff in there.

FOX - First thing i do is concentrate on racking up percent. You cant do anything against them if they are at 0%. I don't recommend you use needles to do this because even if you hit them with a single needle, fox is toooo fast and you will probably get hit by a neutral air or something. 12% vs 3% is not in your favor.

So i have 3 things constantly in my mind. 1.) Grab 2.) Dash attack 3.) Predict there jump with a f-air. It all really depends on what style the fox is in.

For example - LuninSpectra,tink,cobol,most foxes on east coast - they are jumpy foxes. About 75% of the time when they are shielding they will jump out of it. So counter this by throwing f-airs above their head

Chillindude, PC, m2k(kinda) - they are ground foxes. They usually dance dash around the stage and shield looking for a grab most of the time. You can counter this with either follwing their dashing and do a dash attack(watch out for their counter attack if they are at 0%) or try to predict when they put their shield up and grabbing them. A good trick to do is to just keeping jabbing them untill they put up their shield then go for the grab(if they catch on and start sidestepping thats when you start up the downsmashing)

After you racked up some percent 30%-and onward. Thats when you start downsmashing. Unlike Falco, you can downsmash through ANY of fox's moves. You will trade hits with all of his aerials so start spamming away. Be careful when spamming downsmash too much though, they will wait for it and then run in for the grab (chillin lovvvvveeesss to do this.)

Ledgeguaring - Im a big ***** when its comes to this(im not as risky as KDJ/plank). I usually just wait on the edge and wait for them to over-b/up-b and downsmash if they miss the sweet spot (its really hard for them to sweet spot so dont be afraid to do it everytime except on yoshi story, doesnt work there). I will usually throw out a needle first if they are parallel with me and the stage then go for the downsmash.

This method isnt the flashiest thing ever. But it is safe and wont get yourself killed.

Dash attack - Usually you can always combo from dash attack to dash attack on space animals, Its all situational but you can usually do 2-3 dash attacks in a row depending on which way they DI.
If they DI away - dash attack again.
If they DI neutral f-tilt.
IF they DI away at high % - Go for the f-air
If they DI neutral at high % - Go for the tipper up smash. Kills at like 110% on most stages.

Tech chasing(yeahyuzzzz) - K it really is all about reading your opponent. One thing most people dont do is look at the personality of their opponent. You can tell what Silent Wolf is gonna versus that of chillindudeate2much. If you are playing someone who is always gonna be for the most flashiest/technical stuff versus someone who plans things out before they act.

If you are playing the "I'm technical so i really need to do is shine a bunch and i win" kind of person, out of a grab they will almost always tech roll away. They will usually do this 2-3 more time until they start catching on, so you can try and go for a grab and continue the chase. After that 3rd time they will probably just lay there expecting you to run again, so just do a downsmash. Really its just getting inside your opponents head and predicting what they are gonna do next.

If you are playing the "i'm gonna actually think about what im going to do next" kind of person, then you need to be careful. If you are not sure what they are gonna do next always just react to what they are gonna do and downsmash. Just get the percent in a get the **** outta there.

FALCO - Apply pretty much everything with fox with a few exceptions.

Do not downsmash spam. Falco's down-air wrecks it so dont do it. One thing i do(especially against Mathos) is too dash attack right when they jump for their short hop laser. Gotta get the percent in on falco so you can actually combo. DO NOT TRY TO OUT CAMP FALCO, IT DOESN'T WORK. Stay aggressive and dont let the guy breath.

Also, if you get a jumpy down air falco, use an up air as he is jumping up before he can use the down air. They will change their style if you get them with this a bunch.

With falco i actually go for the gay kills. I use two ways to gimp them.

1.) Back throw then immediately throw out a back air. The length of time of a back air is long so chances are they will run into it. From there finish up the job by either back airing from the ledge or f-airing them.
2.) Act like you are gonna go out there and then wait at the ledge and downsmash them. They are gonna be so worried about being gimped that they are not gonna sweet spot. Finishing up the stock the same way.




Well this is my bible when it comes to fox/falco. Hope it helps someone out there. Sorry for the poor organization, i just rambled and typed whatever i was thinking.

 

[Linguini]

hm...i like this guy's style
wait...wtf am I speaking to the enemy
*runs*

 

[G4MER4LIFE]

wowzers! lots of nice info you got there drephen! some stuff there i didn't know

 

[Teczer0]

Wow lol great stuff.

I thought of some stuff reading through that stuff. Good stuff.

BTW drephen on your idea of jumpy foxes do you think a WD f-tilt can work into maybe a grab at like low-mid percents.??

also i know you aren't like most sheiks lol when I played your marth in a friendly at VLS you definitely didn't have a normal Marth LMAO.

And thanks a lot drephen I appreciate your input a lot I'm going to put up that advice on the front page too >.<.

 

[NeighborhoodP]

thank you so much drephen ^^

 

[G4MER4LIFE]

today i just played my friend in smash; i was sheik, he was roy. I don't mean to brag or anything but i'm a lot better than most of my friends, mainly because of my "cheapness" they call it (e.g. wavedashing, edgehogging etc.) I was owning my friend so bad, that he kept saying "stop comboing me!" so i just sandbagged on purpose =/ What should i say to me friends when they say: "Stop being cheap!"? xD
When they do say that, then i dont want to say anything cuz they ALL think it's cheap! AHHHHH!

 

[Teczer0]

Play Kirby and **** their face.

If they complain about kirby well... thats not good

 

[Drephen]

BTW drephen on your idea of jumpy foxes do you think a WD f-tilt can work into maybe a grab at like low-mid percents.??

.

not really, because the idea is that your are hitting fox with the fair on the way up. Fox's jump is too fast to hit with a f-tilt on the way up so you would have to do it on their way down. And most foxes always come down with an aerial from a jump and you would just end up both taking percent. If you can catch with a f-tilt before the aerial yeah it would work great.

I do something similar to this but with a dash attack and when they dont wanna DI off the stage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm9Mq9-5DNM @ 3:20

 

[brickman]

Good stuff Drephen.

As always.

A more elaborate explanation of what you usually say. "Down smash, grab, dash attack"

 

[G4MER4LIFE]

Play Kirby and **** their face.

If they complain about kirby well... thats not good

LOL ye they CAN'T complain bout' kirby!

 

[Banks]

lol k

lol first off my style is wayyyyyyyyyyyy different from normal sheiks especially against space animals so if you play "normal" sheik style go to plank's guide. Lots of useful stuff in there.

FOX - First thing i do is concentrate on racking up percent. You cant do anything against them if they are at 0%. I don't recommend you use needles to do this because even if you hit them with a single needle, fox is toooo fast and you will probably get hit by a neutral air or something. 12% vs 3% is not in your favor.

So i have 3 things constantly in my mind. 1.) Grab 2.) Dash attack 3.) Predict there jump with a f-air. It all really depends on what style the fox is in.

For example - LuninSpectra,tink,cobol,most foxes on east coast - they are jumpy foxes. About 75% of the time when they are shielding they will jump out of it. So counter this by throwing f-airs above their head

Chillindude, PC, m2k(kinda) - they are ground foxes. They usually dance dash around the stage and shield looking for a grab most of the time. You can counter this with either follwing their dashing and do a dash attack(watch out for their counter attack if they are at 0%) or try to predict when they put their shield up and grabbing them. A good trick to do is to just keeping jabbing them untill they put up their shield then go for the grab(if they catch on and start sidestepping thats when you start up the downsmashing)

After you racked up some percent 30%-and onward. Thats when you start downsmashing. Unlike Falco, you can downsmash through ANY of fox's moves. You will trade hits with all of his aerials so start spamming away. Be careful when spamming downsmash too much though, they will wait for it and then run in for the grab (chillin lovvvvveeesss to do this.)

Ledgeguaring - Im a big ***** when its comes to this(im not as risky as KDJ/plank). I usually just wait on the edge and wait for them to over-b/up-b and downsmash if they miss the sweet spot (its really hard for them to sweet spot so dont be afraid to do it everytime except on yoshi story, doesnt work there). I will usually throw out a needle first if they are parallel with me and the stage then go for the downsmash.

This method isnt the flashiest thing ever. But it is safe and wont get yourself killed.

Dash attack - Usually you can always combo from dash attack to dash attack on space animals, Its all situational but you can usually do 2-3 dash attacks in a row depending on which way they DI.
If they DI away - dash attack again.
If they DI neutral f-tilt.
IF they DI away at high % - Go for the f-air
If they DI neutral at high % - Go for the tipper up smash. Kills at like 110% on most stages.

Tech chasing(yeahyuzzzz) - K it really is all about reading your opponent. One thing most people dont do is look at the personality of their opponent. You can tell what Silent Wolf is gonna versus that of chillindudeate2much. If you are playing someone who is always gonna be for the most flashiest/technical stuff versus someone who plans things out before they act.

If you are playing the "I'm technical so i really need to do is shine a bunch and i win" kind of person, out of a grab they will almost always tech roll away. They will usually do this 2-3 more time until they start catching on, so you can try and go for a grab and continue the chase. After that 3rd time they will probably just lay there expecting you to run again, so just do a downsmash. Really its just getting inside your opponents head and predicting what they are gonna do next.

If you are playing the "i'm gonna actually think about what im going to do next" kind of person, then you need to be careful. If you are not sure what they are gonna do next always just react to what they are gonna do and downsmash. Just get the percent in a get the **** outta there.

FALCO - Apply pretty much everything with fox with a few exceptions.

Do not downsmash spam. Falco's down-air wrecks it so dont do it. One thing i do(especially against Mathos) is too dash attack right when they jump for their short hop laser. Gotta get the percent in on falco so you can actually combo. DO NOT TRY TO OUT CAMP FALCO, IT DOESN'T WORK. Stay aggressive and dont let the guy breath.

Also, if you get a jumpy down air falco, use an up air as he is jumping up before he can use the down air. They will change their style if you get them with this a bunch.

With falco i actually go for the gay kills. I use two ways to gimp them.

1.) Back throw then immediately throw out a back air. The length of time of a back air is long so chances are they will run into it. From there finish up the job by either back airing from the ledge or f-airing them.
2.) Act like you are gonna go out there and then wait at the ledge and downsmash them. They are gonna be so worried about being gimped that they are not gonna sweet spot. Finishing up the stock the same way.




Well this is my bible when it comes to fox/falco. Hope it helps someone out there. Sorry for the poor organization, i just rambled and typed whatever i was thinking.

Best post I've ever seen in my life.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

I never even saw that, it *is* amazing.

 

[$hYne]

wwwooooow go drephen \o/
post was 2 good

 

[Teczer0]

The last like 7 posts were complementing drephen on his post......

>_>

 

[Drephen]

lol sorry, didnt mean to steal your thread away tec

 

[Teczer0]

lol sorry, didnt mean to steal your thread away tec

LOL its ok drephen we can share the thread LMAO

Besides your much more qualified to give advice than me .

But actually I really appreciate your posting here its a great thing for a pro to help average players.

Plus I also want to ask your opinions on stuff eventually.

And eventually the fanboys will post because they go in and they are like O_O maybe drephen will talk to me <_<.

 

[Ijuka]

lol k

lol first off my style is wayyyyyyyyyyyy different from normal sheiks especially against space animals so if you play "normal" sheik style go to plank's guide. Lots of useful stuff in there.

FOX - First thing i do is concentrate on racking up percent. You cant do anything against them if they are at 0%. I don't recommend you use needles to do this because even if you hit them with a single needle, fox is toooo fast and you will probably get hit by a neutral air or something. 12% vs 3% is not in your favor.

So i have 3 things constantly in my mind. 1.) Grab 2.) Dash attack 3.) Predict there jump with a f-air. It all really depends on what style the fox is in.

For example - LuninSpectra,tink,cobol,most foxes on east coast - they are jumpy foxes. About 75% of the time when they are shielding they will jump out of it. So counter this by throwing f-airs above their head

Chillindude, PC, m2k(kinda) - they are ground foxes. They usually dance dash around the stage and shield looking for a grab most of the time. You can counter this with either follwing their dashing and do a dash attack(watch out for their counter attack if they are at 0%) or try to predict when they put their shield up and grabbing them. A good trick to do is to just keeping jabbing them untill they put up their shield then go for the grab(if they catch on and start sidestepping thats when you start up the downsmashing)

After you racked up some percent 30%-and onward. Thats when you start downsmashing. Unlike Falco, you can downsmash through ANY of fox's moves. You will trade hits with all of his aerials so start spamming away. Be careful when spamming downsmash too much though, they will wait for it and then run in for the grab (chillin lovvvvveeesss to do this.)

Ledgeguaring - Im a big ***** when its comes to this(im not as risky as KDJ/plank). I usually just wait on the edge and wait for them to over-b/up-b and downsmash if they miss the sweet spot (its really hard for them to sweet spot so dont be afraid to do it everytime except on yoshi story, doesnt work there). I will usually throw out a needle first if they are parallel with me and the stage then go for the downsmash.

This method isnt the flashiest thing ever. But it is safe and wont get yourself killed.

Dash attack - Usually you can always combo from dash attack to dash attack on space animals, Its all situational but you can usually do 2-3 dash attacks in a row depending on which way they DI.
If they DI away - dash attack again.
If they DI neutral f-tilt.
IF they DI away at high % - Go for the f-air
If they DI neutral at high % - Go for the tipper up smash. Kills at like 110% on most stages.

Tech chasing(yeahyuzzzz) - K it really is all about reading your opponent. One thing most people dont do is look at the personality of their opponent. You can tell what Silent Wolf is gonna versus that of chillindudeate2much. If you are playing someone who is always gonna be for the most flashiest/technical stuff versus someone who plans things out before they act.

If you are playing the "I'm technical so i really need to do is shine a bunch and i win" kind of person, out of a grab they will almost always tech roll away. They will usually do this 2-3 more time until they start catching on, so you can try and go for a grab and continue the chase. After that 3rd time they will probably just lay there expecting you to run again, so just do a downsmash. Really its just getting inside your opponents head and predicting what they are gonna do next.

If you are playing the "i'm gonna actually think about what im going to do next" kind of person, then you need to be careful. If you are not sure what they are gonna do next always just react to what they are gonna do and downsmash. Just get the percent in a get the **** outta there.

FALCO - Apply pretty much everything with fox with a few exceptions.

Do not downsmash spam. Falco's down-air wrecks it so dont do it. One thing i do(especially against Mathos) is too dash attack right when they jump for their short hop laser. Gotta get the percent in on falco so you can actually combo. DO NOT TRY TO OUT CAMP FALCO, IT DOESN'T WORK. Stay aggressive and dont let the guy breath.

Also, if you get a jumpy down air falco, use an up air as he is jumping up before he can use the down air. They will change their style if you get them with this a bunch.

With falco i actually go for the gay kills. I use two ways to gimp them.

1.) Back throw then immediately throw out a back air. The length of time of a back air is long so chances are they will run into it. From there finish up the job by either back airing from the ledge or f-airing them.
2.) Act like you are gonna go out there and then wait at the ledge and downsmash them. They are gonna be so worried about being gimped that they are not gonna sweet spot. Finishing up the stock the same way.




Well this is my bible when it comes to fox/falco. Hope it helps someone out there. Sorry for the poor organization, i just rambled and typed whatever i was thinking.

Wow O.o That's a really awesome post. It actually helped my playing against Fox and Falco a lot, especially the beginning of a stock where you have to rack up damage. Thank you a lot =)

If youd write something similiar for some other characters it would be awesome. Hmm although those two are pretty much the only really difficult matchups out there.

Do you think you could write a few lines about Peach?

 

[Teczer0]

What problems do you have with peach?

I generally don't have too much problems with peach unless their name is Cort. And even then I didn't get annihilated >_<.

Anyway can you give me a more specific topic? One thing though if she is above you on a platform don't approach for nothing. She ***** approaches from below unless its from marth.

 

[COEY]

Help against peach on PAL lol? Wouldn't mind some actually.... i'd have thought it'd still be similar to NTSC match up in some ways.

 

[Cort]

*subscribes to this thread because his Sheik is poopoos*

 

[perpetual ownage]

I have problems with Jigglypuff and Peach. Drephen has already covered Fox and Falco. Thankyou Drephen. So can anyone tell me how to fight a Peach and Jigglypuff?

 

[Tope]

Inspired by Cactuar/Emblem Lord/Silent Wolf/Cort/Mango/ And any other member who decided to make a Q&A thread.

Basically I'm just making this because there isn't one for the sheik boards and every character seems to have one nowadays. ^_^

Basically ask common sheik questions here so repetitive threads won't be made over and over. I or hopefully other competent sheik players can answer your question whatever it is.

Some quick things hopefully able to but put away.

Sheik's Up-b Ledgestall

When your on the edge of the stage press down to get off the ledge then quickly up-b you should move a little upwards while this is going on hold down and when you hear the noise for her explosion let go. Sheik should move down and grab the ledge you can repeat till whenever you feel like stopping.

Turning into Sheik in the beginning of the game

To turn into sheik at the beginning of the battle pick zelda and during the stage selection hold A until the game starts.

Chain grabbable characters (Using D-throw)
Sheik
Marth(If he either doesn't DI or DI forward if he DI up or toward you, you can land an Up-smash for low - mid percents)
Bowser
Game and Watch
Ganondorf
Link
Mewtwo
Ness
Pikachu
Roy
Yoshi

If there is something wrong with this list or there are more CGable characters tell me ill edit this post.

Drephen's Advice on Fox and Falco Match up



Be sure to check out Plank's Guide on sheik Brickman also has a character match up guide for a few characters make sure to check that out too.

I would like to point out that Marth can jump out of dthrow usmash if he DI's toward you at any percent.


However instead you can turn around grab till like 13%.

how do i beat chu dat?

Play fox?

I did it last time I played him and won.


Also if you're looking for stages vs ICies, try RC....


too good with so many platforms for mobility.


Also Jungle Japes isn't bad, just watch out for WD dsmash.

ICies have a harder time CGing on the the sloped parts.

 

[Teczer0]

Cort - your amazing

Sheik vs Peach: (Or at least what I think of it)

Sheik vs peach is slightly in sheik's favor (In most cases) and if peach takes her to a gay stage in peach's favor.

One rule for now is to remember is that you shouldn't CC vs peach (at least until you know what to CC). Im pretty sure its common knowledge that everyone says its because you can take literally like 60 percent damage.

Also don't approach peach when she is above you, be very wary of when she is. She can jump off then DJC(sorta) into a really quick b-air or n-air. Also if you approach her from under she can easily CC your attack and d-smash and you will eat LOTS of damage.

Approach peach generally through well spaced f-airs or b-airs at low percents. If you see peach trying to CC a lot just short hop Needle into grab.

Try to avoid using dash attack at low percents its an easy CC into anything for peach. If you can catch her with hit while falling down don't hesitate to at all it will link into very simple combos practically all the time.

Just like drephen said for dash attacking for spacies the same applies for peach and every character for that matter. I think the damage is relatively high I think like 70% not sure though.

When you grab peach and d-throw her you can up-smash her if she doesn't DI (I believe) if she does DI just f-air if they have bad DI you can f-tilt them after it for another f-air. If not chase her she basically is gonna hit the ground and won't be able to attack in the air so I would just space a f-air.

When peach is in mid-air floating I would probably run and try to poke with b-airs they are pretty fast and she lifts her leg sorta up so peach might get hit. If not well... run lol. Also camping peach is an option until she goes back on the ground I personally don't like to camp her that often but *shrugs*.

Edgeguarding a peach is really annoying if they float and start to d-air really high don't chase them. Peaches often move back and forth and if you go after them they may be able to just d-air into n-air you. Wait for them to fall and try to b-air/up-air them if they don't die just keep chasing them they will probably just air dodge to try to get away maybe n-air but if you b-air or up-air them that shouldn't be too much of a problem.

When you get edgeguarded by a peach they will probably hold the edge walk up and then d-smash. If your at high damage make sure you CC the FIRST d-smash attack. Its a weird concept but what it essentially does is make you go in the direction of the stage giving you a much better chance (Stolen straight from PC chris although I dunno if someone else came up with it before him I give him the credit though )

Jiggs I have very little experience with one thing is that sheik can get rested really easy. I dunno what to say about it so I just won't.

 

[perpetual ownage]

Thankyou for your time and help Teczero. And indeed, Sheik does get rested easy.

 

[Teczer0]

Actually I would love to hear something about the Jiggs match up I was thinking up of some stuff I might be able to use but haven't tried it yet.

The only thing i do so far is try to camp but I haven't done much else.

>_> I need to fight moar jigglypuffs

 

[perpetual ownage]

I fought a Jigglypuff that was good at resting and WoP. When I wasn't rested, I would be trying to get back onto the stage. The Jiggs would simply wait (floating) for me to up-B to the stage and when I was landing, I would get punished for the lag by a back air. The Puff would float around outside of my hitbox, I would try to tilt or F-air it but I kept missing. I lost three out of three matches mostly getting rested. Oh, and one time a rollout connected. The Jiggs player would often spam rollouts and I would wait on a platform and punish it. That rollout cost me the match. Good Jigglypuff players are hard opponents.

 

[einthesuperdog]

hiroshi has a lot of good stuff to say about this match up in another thread

 

[NeighborhoodP]

Camp Jiggs. That's how I win. It's a horrible, incredibly boring matchup. Get used to that and know it coming in.

Anyway, your No. 1 weapon is going to be needles. Spam them. Charge needles, if they get within your needle range or if it'll miss, just cancel and slap or bair. Spam bair and fair. Pressure the shield with well-spaced fairs into ftilts and jabs per usual. Ftilt after aerials; it ***** Jiggs at lowish percentages. Do not dash attack very often, you will get rested. Do not grab unless you are 100% sure it will hit, miss it and you are rested.

Play. Very. Safe. You have the advantage so abuse it. They have to come to you. Roll to get away from Jiggs' shield pressure but don't become predictable with it and try to keep it to a minimum, you'll get rested. Nair and fair out of shield if Jiggs doesn't space her aerial spam properly. If she gets too close space bairs to keep her away and keep on needling.

Crouch cancel downsmash if you're going to get hit with something and you know you can trade with your dsmash. Don't directly challenge a crouching Jiggs, just needle and short hop fair. You'll be short hopping and fairing and bairing all day when you're not on the platform, so you should not be standing still.

To edge guard Jiggs, don't bother to really challenge her. Just apply safe pressure and needle. Nair from the ledge if she's coming back and you're on the edge. She won't be living that long anyway. Play patient and safe; Jiggs needs you to get impatient and start running into her. Then you get *****. Just sit back and short hop spam fairs, bairs, and needles and it's hard to lose. Don't get gayed and you win.

 

[perpetual ownage]

Thankyou so much NeighborhoodP. I will not lose to that Jiggglypuff anymore. Best thread ever. I'm coming here more often.

 

[Drephen]

Play fox?

I did it last time I played him and won.


Also if you're looking for stages vs ICies, try RC....


too good with so many platforms for mobility.


Also Jungle Japes isn't bad, just watch out for WD dsmash.

ICies have a harder time CGing on the the sloped parts.

thanks tope

i actually had planned to go fox on chu but then everyone in COK said it was stupid and i would have to give them all blowjobs if i lost

i'll just let take him out so i dont have to =)

 

[mathos]

Drephen, wtf where did that post come from.

And your Fox is going to get ***** by Chu.

 

[Namiel]

Sheik's best stage is Fountain of Dreams without question. Sheik ***** that stage pretty badly. Unfortunately it's probably the only stage she has a significant advantage on. Battlefield is also good for her. I personally hate the f*** out of Pokemon Stadium when it changes, but when it's normal it's good. I also like YS vs Falco.

Fsmash is good sometimes, I've been working on finding a use for it. Omar uses it well: run behind, fsmash. Works well. If they're spot dodge happy also works.

Just browsing the topic and saw this on the first page. Can someone explain why FoD is such a good Shiek stage? As I'm not a Shiek player, I don't quite get the **** qualities it holds. Can't just be a small stage, or "Yoshi's Island" would be mentioned too, right?

 

[unnknownz]

Whats a good counterpick stage to fight fox/falco?

 

[NeighborhoodP]

Just browsing the topic and saw this on the first page. Can someone explain why FoD is such a good Shiek stage? As I'm not a Shiek player, I don't quite get the **** qualities it holds. Can't just be a small stage, or "Yoshi's Island" would be mentioned too, right?

Sheik rules on platforms, and FoD's fit her game best. You can waveland and come down with fairs and bairs and control a lot of the stage, you can needle cancel around all day and control a lot of the stage, and usmash and utilt go through the platforms. It's small enough where it's not hard for Sheik to kill with fair, but not too small so she doesn't get gimped easily.

Battlefield is her second best because of similar properties. A good Falco you would want to pick Battlefield over FoD, v Fox and Marth and Falcon I'd much rather have FoD.

 

[Teczer0]

Whats a good counterpick stage to fight fox/falco?

Battlefield or Fountain of Dreams

Some say Dreamland I personally don't like them there but *shrugs* if you like it go pick it.

 

[Declan]

NeighborhoodP nailed it again, here. The changing height of the platforms is good for sheiks tilt range and drop down air moves. At the same time it will often put you out of fox's usmash range, but you do still have to worry about short hopped air moves followed by the shine, of course.

Battlefield is good for fighting fox because of the unique edge. Needles and bair/nair edgehopping techniques can make it extremely hard for fox to survive once he is off the edge.

It is also pretty good for fighting Marth because it isn't as easy for him to get tippers on battlefield as it can be on some others like FoD and YS. Also, sheik can take advantage of the platforms with her speed/tilt/aerial work.

 

[Shmooguy]

i'm 90% sure peach can nair out of sheik's usmash if sheik tries it.

Yeah, you have to turn around utilt or ftilt. Or you can shield and grab her again; I haven't done this but I just thought of it now and it would probably work.

Battlefield or Fountain of Dreams

Some say Dreamland I personally don't like them there but *shrugs* if you like it go pick it.

I disagree, good space animals aren't stupid they know how to play on those stages. Nothing about those stages makes those matchups any easier other than Battlefield's edge; they're both neutral stages and combos and approaches are still pretty basic.

Brinstar and DK64 are better stages. On Brinstar you can CC on the destroyable things that break the stage apart because you can't L-cancel on those things and most people don't know that so they'll just think they keep messing up and they get frustrated. You have to make sure you can aim your Up-B better on those stages, but that's not too bad considering the positives.

After you racked up some percent 30%-and onward. Thats when you start downsmashing.

I usually get them to 30-40% by CC downsmashing them. After they nair they are usually holding down to shine and they CC my dsmash so I get multiple hits in. Once they are at that percent, then you can tech chase and use dash attack to combo them to death. I don't like dash attacking until they have higher percent. I also start to downsmash a bit less (mostly I use it to throw them off the stage so I can edgeguard). What do you think about this style?

Ledgeguaring - Im a big ***** when its comes to this(im not as risky as KDJ/plank). I usually just wait on the edge and wait for them to over-b/up-b and downsmash if they miss the sweet spot

I do this when they are at higher percents and I've hit them off. If I backthrow them at low percents then I run off the stage to edgeguard because it's more effective if you get it right. Also, Norcal (other than Lunin and Tang) is really bad at sweetspotting because they don't even try. They just aim right at you which is really annoying, so you have to back up and ftilt instead.

About tech chasing:

At low percents if they are really good then I wait for them to tech in place and regrab. Doing any other move will let them punish you if it's at 0% so I just grab again. If they are not really good then they probably will not tech in place.

One thing i do(especially against Mathos) is too dash attack right when they jump for their short hop laser.

This is a lot harder to do than I thought. I can't seem to get the hang of when they jump back and laser and when they try to aerial at me. I get it about 50% of the time, but even then I haven't been doing it enough to get the timing down so I just downsmash instead to avoid mistiming it. Any tips on what to look for? Like what distance they usually run away and laser or something to that effect.

Drephen your Sheik is too smart, thanks much for the advice.

 

[Teczer0]

I think spacies aren't terrible at FoD either but Sheik is pretty good there.

Im assuming that the spacies aren't dumb.

Although DK64 and Brinstar are also good stages for her as well I was just thinking in terms of neutrals.

I think you are thinking in terms of how spacies do on certain stages. Spacies do well on just about EVERY stage. It just happens that sheik does good in general on those stages and probably benefit more or just as much as spacies can.

 

[Shmooguy]

I think spacies aren't terrible at FoD either but Sheik is pretty good there.

Im assuming that the spacies aren't dumb.

Although DK64 and Brinstar are also good stages for her as well I was just thinking in terms of neutrals.

I think you are thinking in terms of how spacies do on certain stages. Spacies do well on just about EVERY stage. It just happens that sheik does good in general on those stages and probably benefit more or just as much as spacies can.

Oh, if you were just thinking of neutrals, then yeah I would go to either one of those.

Personally I don't think Sheik has any major advantage on FoD. Sure, she does well on it, but it's not really enough to warrant a clear advantage in my opinion.

I am thinking of how spacies do on certain stages, how else would I think? Also as a side note I usually ban Corneria or Green Greens. Sometimes FD if I think that they won't pick a gay stage. Actually, recently I haven't had as much of a problem with either Fox or Falco on FD, this is probably due to me getting much better at the matchup, but I still think it's not as good of a stage for Sheik compared to other neutrals. If we're talking only neutrals I would probably ban Yoshi's Story now.