Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

[Paragon-Yoshi]

It's also worth noting that Smash Bros is balanced for more gameplay scenarios than just 1v1 between skilled players. There are plenty of situations in chaotic multiplayer matches on crazy stages where being a super heavy elephant with nothing but crowd clearing moves would be helpful, especially in a player group where not everyone is a competitive guru.

This.
Sakurai himself even said it, that there are attacks that are not very useful in 1v1, but very useful in FFAs.
Like Ridley's Down B.

Unlike the competitive scene, which only plays 1v1 and nothing else, Sakurai considers all possible gameplay scenarios.
1v1, FFAs, teams, 2, 4 and 8 player matches, items on or off, etc.

And something else Sakurai said, is that he prioritizes making a character fun to play and faithful, over making them balanced or competitively viable.
After all, the competitive scene is a vocal minority. They aren't the biggest crowd that plays this game.

 

[Pinguino21v]

However I'm still not clear on Sora's rights. Lots of people say that he is owned by Square, but the franchise as a whole has some form of duel ownership between them and the mouse, meaning that tho they can use him, it can't be in a KH capacity.

Like I said I don't know if this is actually the case, and based on his character design I would say Disney has some ownership to him, but who actually knows.

Sora and everything Kingdom Hearts is fully owned by Disney, there's zero doubt to have on it. The only content of KH Square owns his their own characters and their original design.

The only thing to know is that Disney tells and asks to SE and Nomura their blessing when they want to use KH content, but they aren't forced at all to do that.

I personally think Sora will show up somehow, but not playable. He'd be either a mii swordfighter or part of a Kingdom Hearts spirit event which would include only KH characters.

KH will join Smash with a fighter, or will not join at all. It's one of the few IP I don't see being included with only spirits. The same can be applied to Sony IP, or Halo.

 

[meleebrawler]

So, let's back up for a second.

meleebrawler asked for an example of a competitively viable use for a full elephant transformation. I answered that 2-framing and ledge trapping would be good examples, but that it is fine if there is no competitive application for the elephant transformation.

meleebrawler then followed up by asking why Shantae should have to change forms to use the elephant moves. I first stressed that the real reason has nothing to do competitive balance, but then answered that restricting a nimble zoner's access to big deadly hitboxes might nevertheless be a valid balance-based consideration.

So in light of that conversational background, before giving a direct answer to your question, @RidleyKraid187 , I want to stress again that my desire for Shantae to have a fully-fledged transformation mechanic is not driven by balance considerations. Basically you are right - if our goal was to keep the elephant moves without giving Shantae full transformations, then yes, certainly we could accomplish that without breaking game balance, so long as we tweak the damage and frame data appropriately. But that would be the opposite of my goal in designing Shantae's moveset. My goal would be to include - not exclude - transformations, and then balance around that. Why? Simply because I think full transformations would be more fun and more fitting for Shantae.

That said....... I do think the compromises you would have to make to elephant bash and elephant stomp would be kind of a bummer. Charging someone down or slamming on top of them as a big elephant should feel like you are hitting them with a truck. I also still am firmly of the opinion that making Shantae transform into an elephant during the move's windup and then transform back during the move's cooldown would feel awkward and clunky. That would be much too busy for the startup and cooldown animations of a fighting game move in my opinion. Yes, it's somewhat subjective, and it's hard to know for sure without being able to test it. It's possible, though I think unlikely, that it could work more smoothly than I am imagining. But again, I'd rather have the full transformations anyway.

EDIT: Just to be extra extra extra clear, I am NOT trying to argue here that single move transformations (e.g. transforming into an elephant just for smash attacks) could not work (even if I am skeptical of the concept). I am simply pointing out that A) there could in theory be competitive merit to some of Shantae's transformations, and B) Shantae's transformations do not need a competitive balance-based justification anyway - they could still make for a great moveset concept even if they wouldn't have a role in a competitive setting.

EDIT 2: meleebrawler I missed your last post, but @RidleyKraid187 made a similar point, just in a less aggressively-worded way, so most of what I say here applies to your post as well. As for whether harpy form would be degenerate, that is getting a little carried away. There is so much variation in how transformations could be implemented and balanced, there is no basis for such an argument. Harpy form could be broken, useless, or anything in between depending on the particulars of how they implement it. As for the "constant" access thing, this is just a semantic difference, and not worth getting hung up on.

Here's the clincher: there is no benefit to being an elephant even in casual settings. Being big, slow and immobile isn't any less of a disadvantage in free-for-alls as it is in 1v1s, and the theoretical increased survivability offered by weight doesn't mean much if you can't dodge anything. The only character with mobility truly comparable to the elephant, Shield Shulk, can heavily reduce damage taken to mitigate this, and it's doubtful the elephant will do the same.

Whether it's trying to get into position use the moves, trying not to get surrounded and pummelled from all sides, or dodging powerful items and Final Smashes, it's better to be literally anything but an elephant to accomplish these tasks.

And before you ask why anyone would choose to play someone like Ganondorf or Incineroar with that stuff in mind, they have full, fleshed out movesets that can keep opponents guessing on how they plan to attack. Maybe Ganondorf will charge in with Wizard's Foot or dash attack, or maybe he'll try to stay just out of range and clobber you with fair, or cleave you with his DORIYAH. But if you see Shantae turn into an elephant, you know exactly what she's planning on doing with it's limited repertoire.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I personally think Sora will show up somehow, but not playable. He'd be either a mii swordfighter or part of a Kingdom Hearts spirit event which would include only KH characters.

If Sora shows up in Smash as a Mii costume God have mercy on Sakurai and cos' souls because the Smash fanbase will bring a ****salt storm to the Internet like you wouldn't believe. There would be more dislikes on the video that shows Sora as a Mii costume than the presentation video that revealed Byleth. What is the biggest Ultimate salt middle finger deconfirmed to most Smash fans on the Internet? A Sora Mii costume.

 

[conTAgi0n]

Biometal Really sorry if I made you uncomfortable here, wasn't my intention. I enjoy discussion and debate, so I didn't really think of it as heated. I respect meleebrawler and the difference in opinion. As for this being a rehashed conversation topic, I haven't been around for the last 800 pages, so I'm not as clued into what has and hasn't been discussed here lately. I'll try to cool it on this topic after this post, I promise lol.

Here's the clincher: there is no benefit to being an elephant even in casual settings. Being big, slow and immobile isn't any less of a disadvantage in free-for-alls as it is in 1v1s, and the theoretical increased survivability offered by weight doesn't mean much if you can't dodge anything. The only character with mobility truly comparable to the elephant, Shield Shulk, can heavily reduce damage taken to mitigate this, and it's doubtful the elephant will do the same.

Whether it's trying to get into position use the moves, trying not to get surrounded and pummelled from all sides, or dodging powerful items and Final Smashes, it's better to be literally anything but an elephant to accomplish these tasks.

And before you ask why anyone would choose to play someone like Ganondorf or Incineroar with that stuff in mind, they have full, fleshed out movesets that can keep opponents guessing on how they plan to attack. Maybe Ganondorf will charge in with Wizard's Foot or dash attack, or maybe he'll try to stay just out of range and clobber you with fair, or cleave you with his DORIYAH. But if you see Shantae turn into an elephant, you know exactly what she's planning on doing with it's limited repertoire.

In a free-for-all situation, having big, powerful hitboxes is more useful than in 1v1s, since your opponents can't always be focused on playing around you, plus bigger hitboxes increase your chances of catching multiple opponents. Being mobile and evasive isn't useful to the same degree, since maneuvering to evade one opponent often leaves you vulnerable to others. And since big blows can come out of nowhere, or be almost impossible to dodge even for small, fast characters, trading mobility for heft is helpful for some situations. These sorts of considerations are why people generally feel that heavies fare better in casual free-for-alls than in serious 1v1s, and this would apply to the elephant transformation as well.

But yeah basically the disadvantages of being in elephant form would be used to offset the power of the elephant's moves. Everything is supposed to have tradeoffs. For the elephant form that means being slow, big, and predictable in exchange for getting access to powerhouse moves. We can adjust how good or bad the tradeoff is by tweaking damage, or attributes, or giving the elephant a command grab, or whatever. There are too many variable factors to conclude a priori that it would be unusable.

Remember that this discussion started from a simple question and a simple answer: is there any gameplay scenario in which the elephant transformation would be useful? Yes, 2-framing and ledge trapping. Coming up with an alternate moveset with arguably better 2-framing or ledge trapping does not make that answer any less valid.

Also:

The only character with mobility truly comparable to the elephant, Shield Shulk, can heavily reduce damage taken to mitigate this, and it's doubtful the elephant will do the same.

Why is that highly doubtful? We're just theorycrafting movesets here, so if some degree of damage mitigation would make sense for the elephant form, then we can just say that the elephant should have it.

Anyway, I really hope you can acknowledge my main point here: it doesn't matter if elephant form wouldn't be "good". It doesn't matter if it's never the best option. Falcon punch is a "bad" move too but it's still in the game, and people still land it occasionally, even against good players. And most importantly, people love that move, because it's fun.

 

[M00NFIRE94]

If Sora shows up in Smash as a Mii costume God have mercy on Sakurai and cos' souls because the Smash fanbase will bring a ****salt storm to the Internet like you wouldn't believe. There would be more dislikes on the video that shows Sora as a Mii costume than the presentation video that revealed Byleth. What is the biggest Ultimate salt middle finger deconfirmed to most Smash fans on the Internet? A Sora Mii costume.

He made Geno a Mii costume last game. Don't tempt him!

 

[WingedSupernova]

If Sora shows up in Smash as a Mii costume God have mercy on Sakurai and cos' souls because the Smash fanbase will bring a ****salt storm to the Internet like you wouldn't believe. There would be more dislikes on the video that shows Sora as a Mii costume than the presentation video that revealed Byleth. What is the biggest Ultimate salt middle finger deconfirmed to most Smash fans on the Internet? A Sora Mii costume.

I personally view mii costumes as the best alternative to playable status, so if negotiations were unreasonable with Disney (which is likely given their recent track record), I'd view anything like a mii costume as a win.

 

[TOY the Gamer]

I personally view mii costumes as the best alternative to playable status, so if negotiations were unreasonable with Disney (which is likely given their recent track record), I'd view anything like a mii costume as a win.

As people on here have brought up in regards to Shantae, a Mii Costume of her would only be her hair. Why? Because Nintendo wouldn't enable players to put Sans in a bikini.

 

[conTAgi0n]

Disney being hyper protective of their IPs seems like a pretty big obstacle to Sora representation. I also think that Disney characters like Mickey and Donald Duck in Smash would feel wrong, or at least weird, even as Spirits. We don't know what is happening behind closed doors, so it's possible Disney/Square would be more willing to work with Sakurai/Nintendo than we think, and Sakurai/Nintendo might not have any particular hangups about Disney charactes being Spirits.

The rights for a Mii costume would be easier to negotiate, since there isn't a full moveset, stage, and list of Spirit battles for Disney to inspect and approve. And Sakurai definitely sees the Mii costumes as a nice treat to offer the fans, especially when he can't offer them more. I don't think they would avoid it for fear of backlash. On the other hand, if Square/Disney are still onerous to negotiate with, then it might not be worth it for just a Mii costume.

If I had to guess, I'd lean towards the Mii costume being more likely for Sora than a fully fledged fighter. Really hard to say though.

 

[M00NFIRE94]

.....No way would Disney characters get spirits if they're not video game characters. It's what Sakurai stresses about with Goku so the only spirits you would get are the OCs like Reiku, Kairi and Xehanort.

Also can we avoid this being a Sora thread please?

 

[SoupCanMafia]

.....No way would Disney characters get spirits if they're not video game characters. It's what Sakurai stresses about with Goku so the only spirits you would get are the OCs like Reiku, Kairi and Xehanort.

Also can we avoid this being a Sora thread please?

That was me bringing up how Nintendo seemingly snubbed Disney when they partnered up with Universal with their Nintendo World theme park and the Mario Illumination movie. And the possibility of Disney being petty enough to snub them back by forbidding Sora from coming in.

 

[LaBeteNoire]

Well, guys, we must have a Direct coming soon, because big announcements are already leaking. EB Games just leaked that a version of Street Fighter 5 will be coming to the Switch and you know that's something they would have wanted revealed in a direct.

 

[conTAgi0n]

We're a long way off from becoming a Sora thread but no worries, I'm down to talk about something else.

Next Fighters Pass is probably going to have a third party guest or two that nobody would have seen coming, based on Smash's DLC history. Anyone have any off-the-wall ideas for implausible third parties that nobody has been talking about, but who you could see joining anyway? Kind of like Terry was in the last pass.

It's actually really hard to think of plausible candidates that have received little or no conversation. Prince of Persia is the best I can come up with so far. Maybe a BioShock rep? Though I think even that has been discussed before. I don't think I've ever seen anyone mention a Gears of War character, but I also have a hard time taking that possibility seriously.

 

[SoupCanMafia]

We're a long way off from becoming a Sora thread but no worries, I'm down to talk about something else.

Next Fighters Pass is probably going to have a third party guest or two that nobody would have seen coming, based on Smash's DLC history. Anyone have any off-the-wall ideas for implausible third parties that nobody has been talking about, but who you could see joining anyway? Kind of like Terry was in the last pass.

It's actually really hard to think of plausible candidates that have received little or no conversation. Prince of Persia is the best I can come up with so far. Maybe a BioShock rep? Though I think even that has been discussed before. I don't think I've ever seen anyone mention a Gears of War character, but I also have a hard time taking that possibility seriously.

What about Cadence? They got Zelda backing them up, and that'd certainly be off-the-wall. It'll be a bummer for Shantae fans like you and me, but it'd still be pretty cool!

 

[WingedSupernova]

We're a long way off from becoming a Sora thread but no worries, I'm down to talk about something else.

Next Fighters Pass is probably going to have a third party guest or two that nobody would have seen coming, based on Smash's DLC history. Anyone have any off-the-wall ideas for implausible third parties that nobody has been talking about, but who you could see joining anyway? Kind of like Terry was in the last pass.

It's actually really hard to think of plausible candidates that have received little or no conversation. Prince of Persia is the best I can come up with so far. Maybe a BioShock rep? Though I think even that has been discussed before. I don't think I've ever seen anyone mention a Gears of War character, but I also have a hard time taking that possibility seriously.

Kazuma Kiryu from the Yakuza series. Has a brawling style similar to Shulk's Monado arts, from a niche series, and has never had a main game on a Nintendo platform. I think he fits the bill.

 

[LaBeteNoire]

We're a long way off from becoming a Sora thread but no worries, I'm down to talk about something else.

Next Fighters Pass is probably going to have a third party guest or two that nobody would have seen coming, based on Smash's DLC history. Anyone have any off-the-wall ideas for implausible third parties that nobody has been talking about, but who you could see joining anyway? Kind of like Terry was in the last pass.

It's actually really hard to think of plausible candidates that have received little or no conversation. Prince of Persia is the best I can come up with so far. Maybe a BioShock rep? Though I think even that has been discussed before. I don't think I've ever seen anyone mention a Gears of War character, but I also have a hard time taking that possibility seriously.

I doubt it would ever happen, but I would love to see Master Higgins get added. And it's not unwarranted considering he was created so Hudson could release the Wonder Boy games on Nintendo consoles.

 

[Pinguino21v]

Anyone have any off-the-wall ideas for implausible third parties that nobody has been talking about

Yes! Yes! Tanya from Command and Conquer: Red Alert!

but who you could see joining anyway?

Ah... So it's no.

Joke aside, big names that are not the center of the conversation but I could see joining are

• Sony rep
• LoL rep
• Warcraft rep

Everything else that I can see join the roster is already heavily discussed.

 

[conTAgi0n]

Yes! Yes! Tanya from Command and Conquer: Red Alert!


Ah... So it's no.

Joke aside, big names that are not the center of the conversation but I could see joining are

• Sony rep
• LoL rep
• Warcraft rep

Everything else that I can see join the roster is already heavily discussed.

Yooo, Thrall from Warcraft III / WoW?? StarCraft is closer to my heart but Thrall would be the best fit for Smash IMO, and would be a great all around choice for repping Blizzard. Would be kind of cool to have RTS representation, one of my favorite genres.

 

[Pinguino21v]

Yooo, Thrall from Warcraft III / WoW?? StarCraft is closer to my heart but Thrall would be the best fit for Smash IMO, and would be a great all around choice for repping Blizzard. Would be kind of cool to have RTS representation, one of my favorite genres.

If there ever is a MMO rep, I believe in Warcraft

If the ever is a Warcraft rep, I believe in Thrall. Others believe in Arthas for being the face, but Thrall is more original and less divisive since he does not wield a sword. That is the same kind of logic behind me believing in Robin chances back in the day meanwhile it was Chrom who was expected by the most.

 

[TOY the Gamer]

Yes! Yes! Tanya from Command and Conquer: Red Alert!


Ah... So it's no.

Joke aside, big names that are not the center of the conversation but I could see joining are

• Sony rep
• LoL rep
• Warcraft rep

Everything else that I can see join the roster is already heavily discussed.

I'd LOVE Sackboy from LittleBigPlanet in Smash.

 

[kazoka122]

Show appreciation

https://twitter.com/SmashCrossovers/status/1221176759074410497?s=19

 

[Morning Raven]

I actually love Ultimate Zelda for those very reasons. Not so much the waifu part, but I love the ALttP/ALBW art direction, and she finally looks like she's having fun instead of being so serious all the time.

And that's fine. You're the target demographic. I get why they did it. But to me,

Spoiler: zelda rant

aLttP/LBW are some of my least favorites in the series and I lost the elegant princess design that Rosalina/Palutena/Bayo don't satisfy. Plus, Peach already does the "Cute n Pink" princess better, and her new personality just makes me want Shantae instead.

And I HATE the excuse they gave for BotW Zelda. I can agree for balancing Zelda needs a dress when fighting and being iconic etc. I dont mind them using a different design. But I can't stand them saying BotW Zelda isnt a fighter when ALttP zelda spends her game kidnapped before being sacrificed for a ritual, and LBW Zelda spends hers trapped inside a painting. They diminish BotW Zelda's story and efforts and lie to the playerbase.

How is the elephant supposed to land any hits with short range and slow movement?

I know a lot more has been said since then, and I think those posts are a higher quality, but yea you're a big slow elephant, but you're an elephant with a trunk. Whip it out, smack it down. Grab your enemy and shake them silly. Add the charge and stomp. Add a two legged stomp. Spray water like squirtle. There's many options. Have fun with it.

Oh wow, I didn't know they were replacing the monkey. I haven't seen basically any Seven Sirens info whatsoever. That should be a very interesting change, I wonder how the newt will work.

I think it's to keep her transformations and fusions separate. Fusions being animal forms that play insta-cast like the pirate gear. There's a newt that's this small green creature that wall clings and dashes like the monkey.

As people on here have brought up in regards to Shantae, a Mii Costume of her would only be her hair. Why? Because Nintendo wouldn't enable players to put Sans in a bikini.

I would like to point out, Nintendo already talked to Wayforward to make Shantae a spirit. I highly doubt they would talk to them again just to make a cheesy costume of her that wouldn't translate well anyway. Either she's staying just a spirit or we're getting Seven Sirens Shantae as a fighter.

We're a long way off from becoming a Sora thread but no worries, I'm down to talk about something else.

Next Fighters Pass is probably going to have a third party guest or two that nobody would have seen coming, based on Smash's DLC history. Anyone have any off-the-wall ideas for implausible third parties that nobody has been talking about, but who you could see joining anyway? Kind of like Terry was in the last pass.

It's actually really hard to think of plausible candidates that have received little or no conversation. Prince of Persia is the best I can come up with so far. Maybe a BioShock rep? Though I think even that has been discussed before. I don't think I've ever seen anyone mention a Gears of War character, but I also have a hard time taking that possibility seriously.

Bias aside, League of Legends. Riot Games is owned by Tencent, so China/ Eastern market. Riot is starting to release a whole bunch of new games, after LoL just had its 10 year anniversary. Tackles PC and esports. Lots of potential fighters. It's the Cloud to Dota's Hero.

Also, a character mentioned, but also not, Lara Croft. I just feel like she's commonly shoved aside because of everything else possible from the company. But she's popular in hee own right.

 

[meleebrawler]

I know a lot more has been said since then, and I think those posts are a higher quality, but yea you're a big slow elephant, but you're an elephant with a trunk. Whip it out, smack it down. Grab your enemy and shake them silly. Add the charge and stomp. Add a two legged stomp. Spray water like squirtle. There's many options. Have fun with it.

I just find it funny that it's only now the suggestion of new moves like this for the transformations come in, after all the advocating for faithfulness that came before. But that's fine, make full movesets for each, that can work, don't think it'd work as elegantly as Pokemon Trainer but it can work.

 

[ChadTR]

Yes! Yes! Tanya from Command and Conquer: Red Alert!

She would probably be easier to implement as she's playable in the games, though I think that if a C&C character gets in, it will probably be Kane. The guy is just too iconic.

If there ever is a MMO rep, I believe in Warcraft

If the ever is a Warcraft rep, I believe in Thrall. Others believe in Arthas for being the face, but Thrall is more original and less divisive since he does not wield a sword. That is the same kind of logic behind me believing in Robin chances back in the day meanwhile it was Chrom who was expected by the most.

I also believe in Thrall more than Arthas but for a different reason: Orcs have been the poster race for Warcraft since the early days of the franchise, and for the licence to makes itself distinct from other fantasy licences in Smash it would make more sense to add an Orc (let's not ignite the Warhammer-ripoff debate here).

I wouldn't rule out Starcraft completely, just because the game was available on N64, but if there are Blizzard representatives, I do believe Tracer and a Warcraft representative would be more probable. Still, if there's a SC character, I vote for Kerrigan.


You guys want an even more obscure iconic character from strategy games? How about Sandro from Heroes of Might and Magic. Now that'd be some left-field.

 

[Morning Raven]

I wouldn't rule out Starcraft completely, just because the game was available on N64, but if there are Blizzard representatives, I do believe Tracer and a Warcraft representative would be more probable. Still, if there's a SC character, I vote for Kerrigan.


You guys want an even more obscure iconic character from strategy games? How about Sandro from Heroes of Might and Magic. Now that'd be some left-field.

I much rather have Warcraft, League or Dota over Overwatch. It's dying now and its sister game Paladins updates more frequently. Besides it was like Fortnite, being a competitor to league, but really not being more than a fad before the Minecraft resurgence. I'm actually surprised Blizzard's kept it around for as long as it has.

Sandro would be a really cool left fielder, though also would never happen because he has a human skull for a face, removing the entire country of China from the market. Human skulls are banned there.

 

[TOY the Gamer]

I much rather have Warcraft, League or Dota over Overwatch. It's dying now and its sister game Paladins updates more frequently. Besides it was like Fortnite, being a competitor to league, but really not being more than a fad before the Minecraft resurgence. I'm actually surprised Blizzard's kept it around for as long as it has.

Sandro would be a really cool left fielder, though also would never happen because he has a human skull for a face, removing the entire country of China from the market. Human skulls are banned there.

If it weren't for the crappy, shoehorned identity politics Blizzard injected into it, it'd still be relevant.

 

[ChadTR]

I
Sandro would be a really cool left fielder, though also would never happen because he has a human skull for a face, removing the entire country of China from the market. Human skulls are banned there.

Aww. Then welcome to regionally-locked fighters in Smash?

Yeah, nah.

 

[Planet Cool]

And that's fine. You're the target demographic. I get why they did it. But to me,

Spoiler: zelda rant

aLttP/LBW are some of my least favorites in the series and I lost the elegant princess design that Rosalina/Palutena/Bayo don't satisfy. Plus, Peach already does the "Cute n Pink" princess better, and her new personality just makes me want Shantae instead.

And I HATE the excuse they gave for BotW Zelda. I can agree for balancing Zelda needs a dress when fighting and being iconic etc. I dont mind them using a different design. But I can't stand them saying BotW Zelda isnt a fighter when ALttP zelda spends her game kidnapped before being sacrificed for a ritual, and LBW Zelda spends hers trapped inside a painting. They diminish BotW Zelda's story and efforts and lie to the playerbase.

To be more specific, I love the ALttP/ALBW look in general, not just for Zelda. I dig that vintage anime style, and while I love games like Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess, I don't like that the series has moved so far from that friendlier, more stylized look. Classic Ganon is one of my most wanted newcomers, and if it were up to me, Link would have his frumpier, old-school design too.

If it weren't for the crappy, shoehorned identity politics Blizzard injected into it, it'd still be relevant.

Bad look, bud.

 

[SoupCanMafia]

This server when there's a beneficial Shantae leak

 

[Dukefire]

Well, Byleth is almost here in Version 7.0.0.

Spoiler: Show the World

 

[M00NFIRE94]

Day after tomorrow, guys. Fighter 5 will be here. Can't wait to try out Cuphead.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

He made Geno a Mii costume last game. Don't tempt him!

I personally view mii costumes as the best alternative to playable status, so if negotiations were unreasonable with Disney (which is likely given their recent track record), I'd view anything like a mii costume as a win.

Listen, I wouldn't be complaining about it as Sora isn't really a character I want. But a ton of people would be SUPER ****** and it would be very unwise for Sakurai and co to turn Sora into a Mii costume due to the HUGE negative backlash it would receive.

 

[Sunny-Zee]

Day after tomorrow, guys. Fighter 5 will be here. Can't wait to try out Cuphead.

...Seriously, M00NFIRE94 ? I know there are strong “anti-Fire Emblem” sentiments, but I personally wouldn’t sleep on “hyperspace weapons triangle” Byleth from a gameplay standpoint.

 

[Morning Raven]

I just find it funny that it's only now the suggestion of new moves like this for the transformations come in, after all the advocating for faithfulness that came before. But that's fine, make full movesets for each, that can work, don't think it'd work as elegantly as Pokemon Trainer but it can work.

Hey, I was suggesting the same type of stuff for a transformation focused game as well. I'd love to spray water at tinkerbats or water flowers for hidden goodies. Or just slashing enemies after trapping them in a web as a spider.

 

[LaBeteNoire]

You know, I was just thinking. Will this be the first time an Ultimate DLC character is released without some kind of video or such accompanying them? Like with all the others they would release the breakdown video and then say that they will be available shortly after. I wonder if this time Byleth's release will coincide with a regular Nintendo Direct that will include a small mention of "earlier this month we announced Byleth for Smash, well they will be available for download after this presentation" It just seems like Nintendo would want to make some public statement to make sure people who aren't paying as close attention remember that Byleth is ready.

 

[M00NFIRE94]

...Seriously, M00NFIRE94 ? I know there are strong “anti-Fire Emblem” sentiments, but I personally wouldn’t sleep on “hyperspace weapons triangle” Byleth from a gameplay standpoint.

I don't play characters solely for functions. Don't get me wrong. I'd still want everyone to be fun but if I can't like the character itself, I just don't wanna play 'em even if they become top tier. If you like Byleth, power to ya but I. Just. Don't.

 

[Sunny-Zee]

I don't play characters solely for functions. Don't get me wrong. I'd still want everyone to be fun but if I can't like the character itself, I just don't wanna play 'em even if they become top tier. If you like Byleth, power to ya but I. Just. Don't.

(Sigh) Pulling out the “characters as functions” scrap that blighted the development of Marvel VS. Capcom Infinite, now that’s a low blow. I’ve come to terms with the character and concept, I suggest you do so as well.

 

[meleebrawler]

You know, I was just thinking. Will this be the first time an Ultimate DLC character is released without some kind of video or such accompanying them? Like with all the others they would release the breakdown video and then say that they will be available shortly after. I wonder if this time Byleth's release will coincide with a regular Nintendo Direct that will include a small mention of "earlier this month we announced Byleth for Smash, well they will be available for download after this presentation" It just seems like Nintendo would want to make some public statement to make sure people who aren't paying as close attention remember that Byleth is ready.

If you own a Switch, and Smash Ultimate, you're probably getting news updates about the game on your system, and that includes the Byleth video.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I don't play characters solely for functions. Don't get me wrong. I'd still want everyone to be fun but if I can't like the character itself, I just don't wanna play 'em even if they become top tier. If you like Byleth, power to ya but I. Just. Don't.

I agree with this. As unique as K. Rool and Banjo & Kazooie are, I would have never wanted them at all if I didn't have any childhood attachment towards them. I simply want most characters because I like them not just because they could be very unique in Smash. I think having an attachment to a character plays a very important role in wanting them in Smash.

 

[MeteoRain]

Overwatch, WarCraft, and now even StarCraft?

If that's all one thinks Blizzard can get into Smash, I suggest you should...

Stay awhile and listen.